Guild Wars 2

I am unsure if it is intentional that thieves do not reappear immediately after their stealth wears off. If it is then nerf them in a way to where they cannot build a build that allows them to exploit this and stay out of sight and untargetable for an entire fight. My friend had me try to fight his stealth build on my Necro and for the entire fight I could not see him and was forced to try and hit him with AoEs. All the while I was seeing the numbers from his attacks beating the crap out of me. Granted not all thieves can pull that off but the fact that it is possible needs to be changed.

ok. so my last mocking comment was ‘infracted’ let me elaborate on my ‘haha’ to be more meaningful and helpfull.

Q. I am unsure if it is intentional that thieves do not reappear immediately after their stealth wears off.
A. you either experience lag or you are a keyboard turner and are not very aware of your surroundings.

Q. If it is then nerf them in a way to where they cannot build a build that allows them to exploit this and stay out of sight and untargetable for an entire fight
A. nope, just L2P. (a thief that cannot stealth is a weak warrior).

Q. My friend had me try to fight his stealth build on my Necro and for the entire fight I could not see him and was forced to try and hit him with AoEs.
A. yes, what do you expect? did you want to melee him with your dagger? also L2P

Q. All the while I was seeing the numbers from his attacks beating the crap out of me
A. yes, if you are a fail player in pvp, this will occur almost every time. L2P

Q. Granted not all thieves can pull that off but the fact that it is possible needs to be changed.
A. the only thing that needs changing/fixing is your skill, L2P

P.S you fail to mention your HP/Armor and your friends HP/Armor – you are not giving a valid argument except being a whine.

Here is some free advise, L2P necromancer or don’t play one at all. Don’t come on a Thief forum expecting mercy for your lack of skill and your friends apparant skill over you. were you expecting us to agree with you… the answer is no. feel free to post in the necromancer forums as they might be a bit more forgiving to you and assist you.

The problem is that Thief stealth abilities when used properly allow permanent uptime.

One thing to consider every 3 seconds a Thief gets 2 initiative back meaning every 6 seconds they can just use cloak and dagger to stealth with what I show here.

Assuming the Hidden Thief for stealth while stealing, Meld with Shadows trait for an extra second of stealth per application, Infusion of Shadow which grants 2 initiative per stealth skill use, extra initiative for a total of 15 you get a build that can maintain permanent uptime.

Cloak and dagger (dagger-5. costs 4 initiative, grants 4 seconds of stealth, 0.5 sec cooldown, can be used 5 times for 20 seconds of stealth normal initiative regen )

Shadow refuge (utility. grants 2 initiative per stealth, grants 4 seconds of stealth 3 times if you are good with it, 60 sec cooldown)

Hide in Shadows (healing. grants 2 initiative, 4 seconds of stealth, 30 second cooldown)

Blinding Powder (utility. grants 2 initiative, 4 seconds of stealth, 60 second cooldown)

Shadow Trap (utility. grants 2 initiative, 6 seconds of stealth, 30 second cooldown)

Steal ( mechanic, plus trait grants 2 initiative, 45 second cooldown)

With mechanic, utility and healing skills that grant 14 initiative and with the passive initiative regen capability of 2 initiative per 3 seconds. There is your permanent up time build when coupled with rendering lag issues, that’s how you shut down a zerg or group attempting to cap a point.

It needs a huge nerf and its just to simple to do, imho.

Sevati.6724:

The problem is that Thief stealth abilities when used properly allow permanent uptime.

One thing to consider every 3 seconds a Thief gets 2 initiative back meaning every 6 seconds they can just use cloak and dagger to stealth with what I show here.

Assuming the Hidden Thief for stealth while stealing, Meld with Shadows trait for an extra second of stealth per application, Infusion of Shadow which grants 2 initiative per stealth skill use, extra initiative for a total of 15 you get a build that can maintain permanent uptime.

Cloak and dagger (dagger-5. costs 4 initiative, grants 4 seconds of stealth, 0.5 sec cooldown, can be used 5 times for 20 seconds of stealth normal initiative regen )

Shadow refuge (utility. grants 2 initiative per stealth, grants 4 seconds of stealth 3 times if you are good with it, 60 sec cooldown)

Hide in Shadows (healing. grants 2 initiative, 4 seconds of stealth, 30 second cooldown)

Blinding Powder (utility. grants 2 initiative, 4 seconds of stealth, 60 second cooldown)

Shadow Trap (utility. grants 2 initiative, 6 seconds of stealth, 30 second cooldown)

Steal ( grants 2 initiative, 45 second cooldown)

There is your permanent up time build when coupled with rendering lag issues, that’s how you shut down a zerg or group attempting to cap a point.

Failed argument. You realize for this so called “permanent uptime” which is heavily based on rendering issues, in which case is not a FIX thief issue, but a FIX rendering issue and mainly constrained to wvwvw anyways. You also have cloak and dagger, a WEAPON ability, I could reach my arms out and slap someone at farther range then this ability, it also can be inconsistent (misses when you are well within range with your target sometimes), this also has to be timed to be done RIGHT AFTER stealth naturally ends otherwise you will get the revealed debuff.

It gets pretty annoying how ignorant people can be (Ive seen High school dropouts that look like Nobel Prize winners compared to these people), when they want to nerf thief or thief abilities because of the RENDERING issue. Lets say there was a bug that everytime an any player got within 2000 range of an ele they were struck by quaggan lightning. They would be outcries from the heavens to nerf ele because those players and their class clearly has an ability that is causing this not a bug in the game.

Knyx.5926:

Sevati.6724:

The problem is that Thief stealth abilities when used properly allow permanent uptime.

One thing to consider every 3 seconds a Thief gets 2 initiative back meaning every 6 seconds they can just use cloak and dagger to stealth with what I show here. Its really simple coupled with rendering lag.

Assuming the Hidden Thief for stealth while stealing, Meld with Shadows trait for an extra second of stealth per application, Infusion of Shadow which grants 2 initiative per stealth skill use, extra initiative for a total of 15 you get a build that can maintain permanent uptime.

Cloak and dagger (dagger-5. costs 4 initiative, grants 4 seconds of stealth, 0.5 sec cooldown, can be used 5 times for 20 seconds of stealth normal initiative regen )

Shadow refuge (utility. grants 2 initiative per stealth, grants 4 seconds of stealth 3 times if you are good with it, 60 sec cooldown)

Hide in Shadows (healing. grants 2 initiative, 4 seconds of stealth, 30 second cooldown)

Blinding Powder (utility. grants 2 initiative, 4 seconds of stealth, 60 second cooldown)

Shadow Trap (utility. grants 2 initiative, 6 seconds of stealth, 30 second cooldown)

Steal ( grants 2 initiative, 45 second cooldown)

There is your permanent up time build when coupled with rendering lag issues, that’s how you shut down a zerg or group attempting to cap a point.

Failed argument. You realize for this so called “permanent uptime” which is heavily based on rendering issues, in which case is not a FIX thief issue, but a FIX rendering issue and mainly constrained to wvwvw anyways. You also have cloak and dagger, a WEAPON ability, I could reach my arms out and slap someone at farther range then this ability, it also can be inconsistent (misses when you are well within range with your target sometimes), this also has to be timed to be done RIGHT AFTER stealth naturally ends otherwise you will get the revealed debuff.

It gets pretty annoying how ignorant people can be (Ive seen High school dropouts that look like Nobel Prize winners compared to these people), when they want to nerf thief or thief abilities because of the RENDERING issue. Lets say there was a bug that everytime an any player got within 2000 range of an ele they were struck by quaggan lightning. They would be outcries from the heavens to nerf ele because those players and their class clearly has an ability that is causing this not a bug in the game.

Not really considering I get 12 initiative back in the 20 seconds of cloak and dagger alone extending the time of stealth another 12 seconds. You don’t even need to use all those skills to maintain permanent uptime, just use them wisely. Its very simple coupled with rendering lag.

You can’t hit someone with C&D Twice in a short space of time and receive stealth.

Sevati.6724:

Knyx.5926:

Sevati.6724:

The problem is that Thief stealth abilities when used properly allow permanent uptime.

One thing to consider every 3 seconds a Thief gets 2 initiative back meaning every 6 seconds they can just use cloak and dagger to stealth with what I show here. Its really simple coupled with rendering lag.

Assuming the Hidden Thief for stealth while stealing, Meld with Shadows trait for an extra second of stealth per application, Infusion of Shadow which grants 2 initiative per stealth skill use, extra initiative for a total of 15 you get a build that can maintain permanent uptime.

Cloak and dagger (dagger-5. costs 4 initiative, grants 4 seconds of stealth, 0.5 sec cooldown, can be used 5 times for 20 seconds of stealth normal initiative regen )

Shadow refuge (utility. grants 2 initiative per stealth, grants 4 seconds of stealth 3 times if you are good with it, 60 sec cooldown)

Hide in Shadows (healing. grants 2 initiative, 4 seconds of stealth, 30 second cooldown)

Blinding Powder (utility. grants 2 initiative, 4 seconds of stealth, 60 second cooldown)

Shadow Trap (utility. grants 2 initiative, 6 seconds of stealth, 30 second cooldown)

Steal ( grants 2 initiative, 45 second cooldown)

There is your permanent up time build when coupled with rendering lag issues, that’s how you shut down a zerg or group attempting to cap a point.

Failed argument. You realize for this so called “permanent uptime” which is heavily based on rendering issues, in which case is not a FIX thief issue, but a FIX rendering issue and mainly constrained to wvwvw anyways. You also have cloak and dagger, a WEAPON ability, I could reach my arms out and slap someone at farther range then this ability, it also can be inconsistent (misses when you are well within range with your target sometimes), this also has to be timed to be done RIGHT AFTER stealth naturally ends otherwise you will get the revealed debuff.

It gets pretty annoying how ignorant people can be (Ive seen High school dropouts that look like Nobel Prize winners compared to these people), when they want to nerf thief or thief abilities because of the RENDERING issue. Lets say there was a bug that everytime an any player got within 2000 range of an ele they were struck by quaggan lightning. They would be outcries from the heavens to nerf ele because those players and their class clearly has an ability that is causing this not a bug in the game.

Not really considering I get 12 initiative back in the 20 seconds of cloak and dagger alone extending the time of stealth another 12 seconds. You don’t even need to use all those skills to maintain permanent uptime, just use them wisely. Its very simple coupled with rendering lag.

And the ignorance continues…..

@Sevati

Can you stop BSing and spreading misinformation. You’re not helping your cause by talking out your kitten you do realise that right? ANet developed this game, do you somehow think you’re going to fool them with your lies?

It is simply not possible to have perma stealth. Anytime you strike an opponent, you lose stealth. You’re then hit with a stealth debuff, making it impossible to go back into stealth for a set amount of time.

@OP
Sounds like you’re experiencing the render bug, which effects all classes.

Sevati.6724:

The problem is that Thief stealth abilities when used properly allow permanent uptime.

One thing to consider every 3 seconds a Thief gets 2 initiative back meaning every 6 seconds they can just use cloak and dagger to stealth with what I show here.

Assuming the Hidden Thief for stealth while stealing, Meld with Shadows trait for an extra second of stealth per application, Infusion of Shadow which grants 2 initiative per stealth skill use, extra initiative for a total of 15 you get a build that can maintain permanent uptime.

Cloak and dagger (dagger-5. costs 4 initiative, grants 4 seconds of stealth, 0.5 sec cooldown, can be used 5 times for 20 seconds of stealth normal initiative regen )

Shadow refuge (utility. grants 2 initiative per stealth, grants 4 seconds of stealth 3 times if you are good with it, 60 sec cooldown)

Hide in Shadows (healing. grants 2 initiative, 4 seconds of stealth, 30 second cooldown)

Blinding Powder (utility. grants 2 initiative, 4 seconds of stealth, 60 second cooldown)

Shadow Trap (utility. grants 2 initiative, 6 seconds of stealth, 30 second cooldown)

Steal ( mechanic, plus trait grants 2 initiative, 45 second cooldown)

With mechanic, utility and healing skills that grant 14 initiative and with the passive initiative regen capability of 2 initiative per 3 seconds. There is your permanent up time build when coupled with rendering lag issues, that’s how you shut down a zerg or group attempting to cap a point.

It needs a huge nerf and its just to simple to do, imho.

First off yeah its possible. Second you do next to 0 dps can be hit the entire time and anyone willing to fight you in a situation like that should blame themselves.

Another note burst thieves cant do this. It requires way too many points in defensive traits. The battles are long and those who lose them cant blame anyone but themselves.

There is also a lot of misinformation and like a month ago we discussed this and a realized most thieves don’t really know the class.

Rules of Stealth

1. Stealth can be “permanent” with initiative control C&D and hide in shadows. As long as stealth runs out there is no reveal debuff (since you never revealed your self).

2. Even with rend issues tab target works so…..

3. Stealth does not make you impervious and blind in stealth applies to 1 (that’s right) 1 swing of you opponents weapon. Any multi hit skill will till hit. Swings at the air will hit. Aoes will hit.

4. to spam C&D you would have to be in close proximity to something that takes damage (like a npc or player or gate etc) so one on one just doge after 4 seconds and watch his C&D miss.

5. When stealth you cant cap a point so…….

6. Illusions cast on a stealth player home on on you once you pop out of stealth rendering issue don’t change that.

If anyone thinks stealth should be nerfed then I believe PvP is not for you because even with revealed a good thief with ports and dodge and vigor trait will wreck you. In the long run learn how each class plays and stop complaining over every loss. If you cant cope you weren’t that good in the first place and that the truth. Today alone I have seen a complaint thread about each and every thief build save P/D but this is basically that thread. This garbage needs to end. Sorry to say this but as far as PvP goes you don’t always get to win and if you lose often then spend some time learning.

Its because of the rendering issue that its possible. Apparently, you all want to gloss over that part of my statement and would rather just jump on the flame wagon. the point was to help get some discussion going. I should probably have put that in caps before you all started on your call me an idiot fest.

The debuff should be increased, imho. It doesn’t just happen with zergs and wvw, and yes they can still be hit stealthed. Apparently you all don’t wvw much or see it constantly being abused in practice. I know I’ve abused it, I also gave up thief because 16k+ backstabs are just wrong and essentially an “I win” button in most matchups when used wisely.

You can argue one way or another, but I’ve also seen this in spvp. I am fine that you all love your class and want to blame the rendering problem that folks abuse, but if a rendering fix is not on the horizon, then I am all for increasing the debuff significantly.

@ Sevati
Yes your ignorance is astounding

A. Highly doubt you play thief or did even

B. Anyone can throw out numbers without proof

C. Nerfing a class because a game(effecting all classes) bug is not fixed in a time you find reasonable? You should quit now, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

^ what he said.