Guild Wars 2

I’ve been playing around with a thief, and I’m only level 7 but at this point the stealth seems pretty useless. I’m used to other games where you can turn on stealth and walk around that way, usually it slows you down but it enables you to attack from the shadows, backstab, etc. Does thief stealth ever get like that in this game?

No, and it’s all because people called on Anet to nerf theif.

there are some ways to prolong stealth but there not that good, you will never get a permanent stealth.

However for most uses for stealth you can get ample, shadow refuge is one of the more key ways as well if your trying to get past things and such, throw it down and you get a couple of seconds stealth while stood in it and it stacks some stealths on you that last for around 10 seconds after it ends (don’t leave it till it ends or they get removed instantly) this is generally enough time to get past any difficult mobs, get in and grab a chest and get out under champion noses etc etc.

Instead of long duration/permanent stealth we get access to it more often, allowing the use of stealth moves in combat more often than most other games allow, the short durations and other weaknesses that come with it are to balance that out.

Well stealth in this game isn’t meant to be used as an opener. Its meant to be an agro drop, or an escape.

Stealths ment to re position your self, set up for an attack, and escape. You not going to have long durations of stealth, but will have access to many ways to get into stealth.
So you won’t be traveling long distances in stealth like in other games, but getting hit (aoe or lucky hits) in stealth won’t reveal you.

3 seconds for most skills in the norm, shadow refuge allows you 10 seconds of stealth if you stay in the aoe for a few seconds. And stealth duration can be increase by one seconds via a trait.

This games stealth is vastly superior to every other games stealth..

stealth on other games is better that gw2,

eg ragnarok, where you can stealth and attack and NEVER be revealed unless theres a hunter to use detection skill

eg wow, only flares and other stuff will be the only utilities to make stealth seen

etc etc,

just in comparison to other games, perma stealth is permanent because theres a dedicated class to make them revealed

gw2 stealth is limited because theres no dedicated class to reveal them

The class is called Thief. Not rogue.

/thread

No, this is it, is how it will be basically.

Some people think it is awesome, I never even use stealth anymore.

Previously, one could learn to drop aggro with the brief period of stealth for an escape. Took a little practice so one coud control it…to hold aggro or drop it….but it was a really useful tool.

The last patch changed it and now it is not possible to drop aggro from stealth. Emerge from stealth and NPCs know exactly where you are. For some people, they like this.

So, to me it is not the sneaky thief anymore, but something like a duelist.

If you want to use stealth to setup a back stab or sneak shot, it is fine. But I rarely ever did that. Not really my style.

So, although some people love it, I find it useless and actually a Taunt now when exiting stealth.

Maybe you wll find a use for it as you level, and find what play style you like.

What you need to do is see it with your own eyes. No really face a thief and watch what he does when he goes into stealth. Then you’ll see how useful it really is. Cloak and Dagger is a great way to go into stealth whenever you want btw. Or the combo of Smokescreen heartseeker

Xsorus.2507:

This games stealth is vastly superior to every other games stealth..

You mean superior to a 5 minute perma stealth?

In my experience, Brtiva has it right for PvE/dungeons. Mobs aggro on you immediately when you come out of stealth. The only stealth skill that still drops aggro is Shadow Refuge if you stay in it for the entire time. Personally, I find using stealth in its current form (except SR) to act more like a mob taunt then anything else.

Thieves in guild wars are elusive rather than hidden. Short bursts of stealth and shadow step movement are enough to perplex enemies. It does all work when put together with helpful traits.

Aggro is dropped for all classes when you get out of an enemy’s engagement area. Stealth often gives a thief time to get out of that area.

Ddomke.1495:

Well stealth in this game isn’t meant to be used as an opener. Its meant to be an agro drop, or an escape.

I have no idea what you’re talking about. Many times I use Hide In Shadows just so I can get behind someone for a BS or jump them with the mug>cnd>bs combo.

Dasorine.1964:

there are some ways to prolong stealth but there not that good, you will never get a permanent stealth.

By utilizing combo fields, it is possible to achieve permanent stealth. Two thieves, one with offhand dagger and the other with Shortbow, cluster bomb into black powder. Trait for initiative return and you will have permanent stealth.

Irena.1062:

No, and it’s all because people called on Anet to nerf theif.

It’s kitten No one argued that thieves were OP in PvE. that’s insane, they’re one of the worse classes for it because NPCs have such high health compared to players. Only some outspoken people had complained thieves were OP in WvW (not even in sPVP). So A-Net nerfed their stealth in…PvE…but not WvW?

It’s really weird to be honest

Same thing happened to Guardian in the January patch. A-net nerfed the Guardians’ worst utilities (spirit weps). It’s just…mind blowing.

Teamkiller.4315:

Irena.1062:

No, and it’s all because people called on Anet to nerf theif.

It’s kitten No one argued that thieves were OP in PvE. that’s insane, they’re one of the worse classes for it because NPCs have such high health compared to players. Only some outspoken people had complained thieves were OP in WvW (not even in sPVP). So A-Net nerfed their stealth in…PvE…but not WvW?

It’s really weird to be honest

Same thing happened to Guardian in the January patch. A-net nerfed the Guardians’ worst utilities (spirit weps). It’s just…mind blowing.

Oh wow when did this happen ? Nerfed stealth in pve BUT NOT IN WWW ?

Karolis.4261:

Teamkiller.4315:

Irena.1062:

No, and it’s all because people called on Anet to nerf theif.

It’s kitten No one argued that thieves were OP in PvE. that’s insane, they’re one of the worse classes for it because NPCs have such high health compared to players. Only some outspoken people had complained thieves were OP in WvW (not even in sPVP). So A-Net nerfed their stealth in…PvE…but not WvW?

It’s really weird to be honest

Same thing happened to Guardian in the January patch. A-net nerfed the Guardians’ worst utilities (spirit weps). It’s just…mind blowing.

Oh wow when did this happen ? Nerfed stealth in pve BUT NOT IN WWW ?

The stealth “nerf” has to do with NPCs being on high alert after you’ve stealthed and immediately getting on your back once you exit it. In PVE, all you fight are these NPCs.

In WvW, you mostly fight other players, and nothing of this sort happens to you. Unless f course, you are taking supply camps or killling sentries by yourself, but imo wvw is about pvp

Authority.6145:

Xsorus.2507:

This games stealth is vastly superior to every other games stealth..

You mean superior to a 5 minute perma stealth?

And what do you do with that permastealth? In WoW for example, you can ambush someone, then you fight without stealth, and even if you vanish, attacks can de-stealth you. You have to run out of combat to be able to restealth. In GW2 you can stealth every 3 seconds while standing toe-to-toe in your enemies face, and you can easily attack from it because enemies doesn’t get you out from it. If you want to travel in stealth behind enemy lines, that’s still possible in GW2 as well, you just C&D mobs or BP+HS.

Well I’m getting a little better at thief and I learned a couple uses for stealth using Cloak & Dagger, if I hit that I have just enough time to get behind them and do a backstab. Also it helps when I’m losing and want to run away.

Still, though, the thief feels weak to me in solo PvE. I die a lot, especially when I get adds. Also, in case I didn’t mention I’m new to this game, and this game feels more like a button masher than any other MMO I’ve played before.

BTW, I also started a guardian and while it may not kill things as fast, I’ve died only once in 8 levels. Do I just suck at playing a thief, or is this pretty much the way it’s supposed to be?

Dunno why ppl are complaining. Cloak in this game is pretty OP. You get to buff your cloak in shadow arts, have a consistent burst dmg (cnd, bs and some steal every now and then). AND if you have a main dagger, you get the infamous awesome burst spammable skill Heart Seeker.

Yes, the combat in GW2 is more like an action game or TPS, you have to learn to dodge and move a lot. I think that D/D is the worst weapon combination for solo PvE. You don’t have any defensive mechanic while doing an autoattack chain, nor you attack more mobs at a time, etc. While it’s good at spamming backstab and does the best single target dps, it leaves you vulnerable. Try out other weapon sets. E.g. with S/D you still have cloack&dagger, but attacking from stealth with the sword dazes the target for 2 seconds, while sword also hits more mobs. D/P or S/P gives you even more defense with blinding powder, since you blind all the mobs hitting you in melee (you have to watch out for ranged mobs, it’s better to take out those first). You need a lot of init regen for D/P though, then you can combo blinding powder with hearthseeker into stealth and backstab. With S/P you just stand in the smoke and pistol whip. You also have shortbow which is a powerful weapon if you want to kite mobs.

OR if you don’t like stealth, get condition damage and try D/D doing death blossoms + caltrops on dodge. DB is an aoe attack, and once you are in the air it’s a dodge as well. With 15 in acrobatics you can spam DB+dodge almost non-stop. The other option for condition damage is also good, P/D, which even combines bleeds with cloak and dagger (your main attack for stacking bleeds is 1 from stealth).

legion.7518:

Well I’m getting a little better at thief and I learned a couple uses for stealth using Cloak & Dagger, if I hit that I have just enough time to get behind them and do a backstab. Also it helps when I’m losing and want to run away.

Still, though, the thief feels weak to me in solo PvE. I die a lot, especially when I get adds. Also, in case I didn’t mention I’m new to this game, and this game feels more like a button masher than any other MMO I’ve played before.

BTW, I also started a guardian and while it may not kill things as fast, I’ve died only once in 8 levels. Do I just suck at playing a thief, or is this pretty much the way it’s supposed to be?

When you say new, what kind of level did you get your thief to and is it your first toon?

Thief in PvE at early levels is weak but if you know how the game works, you shouldn’t be doing much button mashing or dying too often. The trick with thief is to keep avoiding damage, we have no method of soaking it. Which means stealth, evades, rolls, shadowstep. If you’re not using at least 2 of these, you’re prolly gonna struggle. I’d say 3 is the minimum you should have.
Thief is the most button mashery class though, aside from engineer, simply becasue you have to keep moving. Being still = death to a thief. Saying that being still= death to most classes in this game.
Thief is particularly squishy though. It’s terrible underwater in PvE.

As for stealth, i’d say it is veryt different to other games because it’s so fleeting and can be shared, which is nice. At first I was skeptical having come from a WoW druid main, but I quite like it now.
Gw2 Thief is a pirate ninja, using stealth to counfound and disorentiate, where other games have invisible assassins, only appearing in order to attack.

legion.7518:

Well I’m getting a little better at thief and I learned a couple uses for stealth using Cloak & Dagger, if I hit that I have just enough time to get behind them and do a backstab. Also it helps when I’m losing and want to run away.

Still, though, the thief feels weak to me in solo PvE. I die a lot, especially when I get adds. Also, in case I didn’t mention I’m new to this game, and this game feels more like a button masher than any other MMO I’ve played before.

BTW, I also started a guardian and while it may not kill things as fast, I’ve died only once in 8 levels. Do I just suck at playing a thief, or is this pretty much the way it’s supposed to be?

You need to be careful with the button mashing. Auto attacks are quite strong and you should try to kill with auto-attacks backed up by well timed use of initiative. Timing evades and stuns from the weapons will help and for that you need to know enemy attacks and animations. So yes the thief is quite difficult to play compared to other classes at low level. You certainly need to get out of any situation where you are in a crossfire.

………thieves are not underpowered I’m pve, or overpowered anywhere…….. How is being able to reset and regen constantly underpowered. You can also double CD if you need more health. I don’t understand people whining about thief being bad in pve, or being OP in pvp. Just leave the class alone. Anet will watch and kitten the class even more.

In no other game where I played a Thief without permastealth did I like it, but GW2 shocked the heck out of me by changin’ that. Usually permastealth is great for exploring in other games and that is what I always use it for – if used well you can still get away with a lot of exploring just fine with the way stealth work in this game. In fact it makes explorin’ more exciting because you have to use it smart.

On top of that, the stealth and other escape/movement abilities the Thief gets makes her a ton of fun to play. She’s super slippery in combat, which she needs to be, because she’s got the fewest hit points in the game. If she gets pinned down or stops moving for a moment in close combat, she’s toast … but unlike what some people here are telling you, she can take on more than one monster at a time, at least in PvE. The trick is, Thieves can be built to do some humongous 1 on 1 damage, what you need to do is make sure she’s doing that damage, then getting out of reach – back in and doing the damage, getting out of reach – and on and on. I take on 4 to 5 monsters at a time in melee all the time when I’ve got my D/D build in full form; you just have to be quick, and don’t let yourself get surrounded. And those big fights’ll really get your heart pumping sometimes, let me tell ya.

I’ve tried a couple of the other classes, but after playing a thief to level 80+, allot of the other classes felt boring. All depends on what your looking to get outta the game.

I like Thief stealth a lot better than other games. It forces you to think and you can specialize in it or not.

In WoW, stealth was silly. You could use it to stealth all the way across a map to ambush someone picking flowers, but because of the many loopholes Blizzard had to insert because of its OPness, someone who knew you were there had a lot of tools to pull you out of stealth before you wanted. Sort of backwards, and really only attractive to people who can’t fight very well.

In GW, you stealth for brief, but critical moments, and you can’t be pulled out of stealth involuntarily. (Though you can be damaged in stealth, of course.) You can specialize in stealth with some traits, put stealthing abilities on your bar, and by the weapons you choose to equip. Even then, with Shadow Refuge you can get stealths that are long enough to serve to allow you to bypass many things you don’t want to mess with.

GW stealth works well to get away from things, to bypass things, and in fighting. It just doesn’t let you perma-stealth so you can pretend you’re a great fighter because no one knows you’re there until you unload on them. That class of players will hate it.

In terms of feeling weak at lower levels, that’s crazy. I was more powerful at lower levels than my Elementalist, Engineer, or Necromancer. The key is to avoid damage, and you have a lot of tools to do that.

First, equip an offhand pistol: that gives you a stun and a smoke bomb, which are lethal against melee mobs, since they won’t hit you very often. I used sword/pistol at lower levels. Get the 5-point trait that gives you haste when you dodge. Put Caltrops on your bar: they are absolutely amazing damage, they work against stealthed mobs, and they slow things down if you have to run. Choose the heal that stealths you, and use it to heal, but also as an opener or other move to get behind your target.

Perhaps at the first few levels you have to strafe circle a lot, but I was amazed by my Thief being able to stand toe-to-toe with mobs at lower levels (once I went sword/pistol). It was so easy that now, at level 35, I’m having to learn to get behind targets for stealth attacks.

Yeah its not so much stealth as in running around and other classes have abilities that make them disappear too, so I don’t feel particularly stealthy. I use stealth usually defensively, shadow stepping I would consider more integral to my playing. Attacks from stealth occur off the hip very much not a case of a stealth assassin setting a killer attack. When Backstab thieves do this on me there’s alot that can be done to avoid it so nope I don’t consider thieves particularly stealthy by nature – more slippy just. Some don’t even use it.

@legion: You need to think about avoiding damage. If you imagine the Thief as a duel-dagger-wielding killing machine that kills everything in range before dying you’ll have a hard time at lower levels. Dodge, circle strafe, use sword/pistol as your weapons.

With sword/pistol, you can use Blackpowder which damages and sets up a smoke field that will blind your opponents once a second for 4 seconds. So if you have 3 mobs standing in it and they only attack once a second, you’ll take zero damage. On top of this, you can use Pistol Whip on your main target, which does good damage and also stuns them for 1/2 second. (Which means any attack they were in the process of doing is interrupted, and you get a half second break from further attacks.) During the Pistol Whip, you are also evading all incoming damage as well!

At level 5 you get a skill point and can immediately get Blinding Powder, which also blinds in an AoE, and stealths, and can be used at any time including while stunned. Or save up/collect 3 skill points and get Caltrops, which is simply an amazing AoE cripple and bleed at lower levels. It even works against stealthed mobs, which are always annoying.

As you get to higher levels, you can collect more skills and specialize into a killing machine. But several core mechanics of the Thief involve damage avoidance (which can include being able to run if overwhelmed) and the profession forces you to learn these basics early on.

Just gonna say, in Rift you can spec for perma stealth (until you hit something and had a 15 sec cooldown) but everything leading up to that will change your build entirely (ex. you can be zerker heartseeker spec but if you want full stealth you would spec into different trait lines which would be better served running condition spec)

You are able to make such a set up. I made this post a while ago, that explains all the ways to go into stealth with the Thief:

Weapons
Cloak and Dagger (can easily be triggered twice or more)
Black Powder+Cluster Bomb (does AoE stealth)
Black Powder+Heartseeker

Healing
Hide in Shadows

Utility
Blinding Powder (instant cast = can be used on top of another skill)
Shadow Trap
Shadow Refuge (does AoE stealth)
Smoke Screen+Cluster Bomb (does AoE stealth)
Smoke Screen+Heartseeker

Steal
Blinding Tuft (stolen from Thieves)
Blinding Feathers (stolen from Moas)

Downed
Smoke Bomb

Traits
Hidden Thief (really lasts 3 seconds because of Meld with Shadows)
Instinctual Response

And all of this stealth can be improved by 1 second (or more in the case of combos), by picking the trait Meld with Shadows. You can also stack up more stealth with the smoke combos, by using the trait Infusion of Shadow (gain 2 initiative when using a skill that stealths).

I wouldn’t recommend playing only on stealth, though. As a Thief, it’s a lot more fun to use movement and speed, especially in combat.