Guild Wars 2

Hi,
So I leveled a warrior, and I see the insane crits Im doing via 100b. One run of 100b is throwing out somewhere around 30k of dmg. My lowest crit with this is around 4 or 5k.

On my thief I am running a backstab build with the COF set. in PVE I am only getting around 5-7k crits. Thats also whenever the revealed debuff wears off, so every few seconds. My auto attacks do not crit for a whole lot.

I feel really gimped compared to my warrior who is also in heavy armor, with around 8k more HP.

My thief feels weak, with 15.3k HP ;/

Could anyone help with a high dmg backstab build, or whatever kind of build, with some decent survivability?

Dont want to give up on the thief class just yet…
thanks!

cesmode.4257:

Hi,
So I leveled a warrior, and I see the insane crits Im doing via 100b. One run of 100b is throwing out somewhere around 30k of dmg. My lowest crit with this is around 4 or 5k.

On my thief I am running a backstab build with the COF set. in PVE I am only getting around 5-7k crits. Thats also whenever the revealed debuff wears off, so every few seconds. My auto attacks do not crit for a whole lot.

I feel really gimped compared to my warrior who is also in heavy armor, with around 8k more HP.

My thief feels weak, with 15.3k HP ;/

Could anyone help with a high dmg backstab build, or whatever kind of build, with some decent survivability?

Dont want to give up on the thief class just yet…
thanks!

You can’t have that damage without giving up 55 trait points and getting critical bonus gear.

cesmode.4257:

Hi,
So I leveled a warrior, and I see the insane crits Im doing via 100b. One run of 100b is throwing out somewhere around 30k of dmg. My lowest crit with this is around 4 or 5k.

On my thief I am running a backstab build with the COF set. in PVE I am only getting around 5-7k crits. Thats also whenever the revealed debuff wears off, so every few seconds. My auto attacks do not crit for a whole lot.

I feel really gimped compared to my warrior who is also in heavy armor, with around 8k more HP.

My thief feels weak, with 15.3k HP ;/

Could anyone help with a high dmg backstab build, or whatever kind of build, with some decent survivability?

Dont want to give up on the thief class just yet…
thanks!

High damage + survivability doesn’t mix with thief.

Thief severely lacks DPS. This is a little known fact among those who aren’t ignorant about it. Thief has single target BURSTS, which is quite useless in PvE (especially dungeons). Almost all other classes can out DPS a thief.

Kurow.6973:

cesmode.4257:

Hi,
So I leveled a warrior, and I see the insane crits Im doing via 100b. One run of 100b is throwing out somewhere around 30k of dmg. My lowest crit with this is around 4 or 5k.

On my thief I am running a backstab build with the COF set. in PVE I am only getting around 5-7k crits. Thats also whenever the revealed debuff wears off, so every few seconds. My auto attacks do not crit for a whole lot.

I feel really gimped compared to my warrior who is also in heavy armor, with around 8k more HP.

My thief feels weak, with 15.3k HP ;/

Could anyone help with a high dmg backstab build, or whatever kind of build, with some decent survivability?

Dont want to give up on the thief class just yet…
thanks!

High damage + survivability doesn’t mix with thief.

Thief severely lacks DPS. This is a little known fact among those who aren’t ignorant about it. Thief has single target BURSTS, which is quite useless in PvE (especially dungeons). Almost all other classes can out DPS a thief.

Yeah, its pretty sad when my highest damage attack is my auto-attack for sword, the rest of the moves are mostly utility.

Oh my goodness. Never EVER try a necro, engineer, or ranger. In comparison the thief is a beast!

Eviator.9746:

Oh my goodness. Never EVER try a necro, engineer, or ranger. In comparison the thief is a beast!

I have a necro and a ranger, and I can easily argue that.

Debating on going back to my condi build for a while. Used to wa,tch the wold burn there. How are pistol whip thieves in dungeons?

Kurow.6973:

I have a necro and a ranger, and I can easily argue with that.

Fixed? Or were you agreeing?

Fighting one non-boss mob at a time in PvE, downing with the thief goes fast with very little risk of dying. Add in another mob or two or make it a boss, the story changes.

In dungeons I switch off between S/D and D/P. I usually run with a warrior, guardian, and necro. Keeping up with the multi target sustained DPS that all of them can put its near impossible. S/* can slightly keep up with the 2k, 2k, 4k auto attack chain, but the utility those builds bring its a much better reason to bring them. Blind tanking certain mobs, or knocking off all the CC immunity stacks of a boss so the hammer warrior can stun them is very effective. I use the S/D for stopping mobs from chasing the other people and boon removal from tougher opponents (NPCs are easier to hit with FS since they don’t move as much). The thief brings quite a lot of support that is often overlooked since seeing single big number attacks is satisfying. SB also has one of the best blast finishers in the game which works extremely well with guardian light fields. Basilisk venom works on bosses regardless of defiance stacks which can help in a bind. Don’t pigeonhole yourself into pure DPS, thieves can be so much more.

Welcome to Heavy Armor Wars 2.

Where the concept of heavy armor wearers doing equal and in most cases MORE damage than those in squishy armor makes absolute perfect sense.

Survivability? Check. Damage? Check. Why play anything else other than a warrior in PvE?

Balanced.

Columba.9730:

How is it that with 3k armor I take 5 k, 10k shots from thieves, yet thieves have weak dps? That makes no sense. I have that armor and 24k health and I still die in 1-2 seconds of rom completely invisible thieves, so I don’t understand your point. Try a ranger if you want to complain about weak dps. At least with warriors, I can see them and avoid their damage.

Thieves have strong burst and weak sustained DPS in a backstab build. They have weak burst but decent sustained damage while visible with a sword main hand weapon. Assuming that you are a warrior or guardian with that amount of armor, there ate a great number of skill that can mitigate all the damage a backstab thief can throw at you in that 1 to 2 seconds. This game is not based around passive defence. My thief only has a total of 2.5k armor, but I have yet to get hit by one of these amazing 10k backstabs. That is not to say I haven’t gotten hit by the mug C&D combo, but my dodge is bound to my mouse, so the backstab portion rarely hits.

You want a Backstab build for PvE?

That makes 0 sense.

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

How is it that with 3k armor I take 5 k, 10k shots from thieves, yet thieves have weak dps? That makes no sense. I have that armor and 24k health and I still die in 1-2 seconds of rom completely invisible thieves, so I don’t understand your point. Try a ranger if you want to complain about weak dps. At least with warriors, I can see them and avoid their damage.

Thieves have strong burst and weak sustained DPS in a backstab build. They have weak burst but decent sustained damage while visible with a sword main hand weapon. Assuming that you are a warrior or guardian with that amount of armor, there ate a great number of skill that can mitigate all the damage a backstab thief can throw at you in that 1 to 2 seconds. This game is not based around passive defence. My thief only has a total of 2.5k armor, but I have yet to get hit by one of these amazing 10k backstabs. That is not to say I haven’t gotten hit by the mug C&D combo, but my dodge is bound to my mouse, so the backstab portion rarely hits.

If you can put out 20k+ damage from complete invisibility in <2 seconds, lack of sustained dps is irrelevant vs most enemies,

i just runned 3 days non stop fractals to make my ascended back so i made arround 30-35 fractals*3 maps last 3 days.
Yes, thief is weak compared with warrior in pve, Thief lack constant burst, ability to facetank, party buffs are poor compared with warrior.
However i find shortbow usefull in dungeons. i’ve facetanked some groups of mobs , where the warriors from my party died in 2 seconds.
An good shortbow combo to facetank mobs is – infiltration arrow , cluster /clocking gas, blinding powder, cluster, 1 -2 more hits then disabling shot. Worked well untill fractal lvl 20, even when i jumped betwen 7-8 veterans. Shortbow also provide an decent DPS, and high healing from omnomberry ghost.
I use an combination betwen valkerye /knight /berseker gear – and i keep decent survaivability and DPS
I am fragile but i don’t die in 1 -2 hits, and i always switch betwen ability’s , even to i find most usefull blinding powder, smoke screen shadow refuge.
Needle trap , haste , signet of shadows got own conner also, specialy at bosses when you want and extra blind or imobilize.
If i would have to chose betwen an warrior or thief in party, i would pick warrior, and fact is 95% of thieves i’ve meet in fractals never used lifesteal buff.

Columba.9730:

How is it that with 3k armor I take 5 k, 10k shots from thieves, yet thieves have weak dps? That makes no sense. I have that armor and 24k health and I still die in 1-2 seconds of rom completely invisible thieves, so I don’t understand your point. Try a ranger if you want to complain about weak dps. At least with warriors, I can see them and avoid their damage.

tab + bull charge+ 100 b
30 points intro defence will provide you pasive imunity to basilik vennom and any other stun for 5 seconds every 90 seconds 4 seconds of pasive endure pain at 25% hp. if you got 24k health you will activate EP at 6k hp
without autotarget , rush will move you to 1200 range away from thief, he will waste 9 initiative out of 12 to leap to you.
I don’t have any problem with backstab thieves or S/D thieves on my warrior, and i dodge fights vs P/D thieves(wich i cannot counter because poor condition remove ability’s) , with whirlwind / rush /bull charge, brb i am 2600 range away and whirlwind is available to use.

Columba.9730:

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

How is it that with 3k armor I take 5 k, 10k shots from thieves, yet thieves have weak dps? That makes no sense. I have that armor and 24k health and I still die in 1-2 seconds of rom completely invisible thieves, so I don’t understand your point. Try a ranger if you want to complain about weak dps. At least with warriors, I can see them and avoid their damage.

Thieves have strong burst and weak sustained DPS in a backstab build. They have weak burst but decent sustained damage while visible with a sword main hand weapon. Assuming that you are a warrior or guardian with that amount of armor, there ate a great number of skill that can mitigate all the damage a backstab thief can throw at you in that 1 to 2 seconds. This game is not based around passive defence. My thief only has a total of 2.5k armor, but I have yet to get hit by one of these amazing 10k backstabs. That is not to say I haven’t gotten hit by the mug C&D combo, but my dodge is bound to my mouse, so the backstab portion rarely hits.

If you can put out 20k+ damage from complete invisibility in <2 seconds, lack of sustained dps is irrelevant vs most enemies,

You do realize that this thread is about thieves in PVE, right? The only things that are irrelevant here are both of your replies complaining about thieves in WvW when the topic is about poor thief DPS in dungeons.

nahj.2870:

Columba.9730:

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

How is it that with 3k armor I take 5 k, 10k shots from thieves, yet thieves have weak dps? That makes no sense. I have that armor and 24k health and I still die in 1-2 seconds of rom completely invisible thieves, so I don’t understand your point. Try a ranger if you want to complain about weak dps. At least with warriors, I can see them and avoid their damage.

Thieves have strong burst and weak sustained DPS in a backstab build. They have weak burst but decent sustained damage while visible with a sword main hand weapon. Assuming that you are a warrior or guardian with that amount of armor, there ate a great number of skill that can mitigate all the damage a backstab thief can throw at you in that 1 to 2 seconds. This game is not based around passive defence. My thief only has a total of 2.5k armor, but I have yet to get hit by one of these amazing 10k backstabs. That is not to say I haven’t gotten hit by the mug C&D combo, but my dodge is bound to my mouse, so the backstab portion rarely hits.

If you can put out 20k+ damage from complete invisibility in <2 seconds, lack of sustained dps is irrelevant vs most enemies,

You do realize that this thread is about thieves in PVE, right? The only things that are irrelevant here are both of your replies complaining about thieves in WvW when the topic is about poor thief DPS in dungeons.

To the extent that thieves get buffed I pve and those buffs spill over into WvWvW, my comments are completely relevant.

Just ignore Columba, he almost literally does nothing except complain about thieves in WvW in any thread even remotely related to thieves or wvw.

On topic: The best I’ve found for PvEin’ is S/P, the sword auto attack is very good and the S/P when hasted in PvE can wipe out small groups of adds fairly easily. I’ve found that any condition builds are too weak if you add anyone else doing them and burst builds are… well just not useful as has been mentioned in previous posts.

Eviator.9746:

Oh my goodness. Never EVER try a necro, engineer, or ranger. In comparison the thief is a beast!

I did and I found that my Necro alt kills a lot easier in PvE then my thief she and rarely dies.

Rayya.2591:

Edited for brevity

I agree, shortbow is great if you are running a power/precision/crit build, or some variation. Its terrible for condition builds. Cluster bombs just hit like crap when I was specced condition, but when I specced zerker, my shortbow damage is awsome now.

frans.8092:

Eviator.9746:

Oh my goodness. Never EVER try a necro, engineer, or ranger. In comparison the thief is a beast!

I did and I found that my Necro alt kills a lot easier in PvE then my thief she and rarely dies.

Necro ability is off topic :P But I have a necro with a vampire build. Knights gear, with zerker-ish jewelry. I hardly die. Ever. And DPS is fairly decent. As a necro who doesn’t do the insane damage a warrior does, I am able to facetank a lot of crap in dungeons, hardly lose health due to all the life siphoning im doing(critical hits, wells, life siphon, sigils, and food buff…). My utility to the group is the fact that they hardly ever need to stop what they are doing to rez me, 3 life steal combo fields, aoe condition removal.

Columba.9730:

nahj.2870:

Columba.9730:

Maugetarr.6823:

Columba.9730:

How is it that with 3k armor I take 5 k, 10k shots from thieves, yet thieves have weak dps? That makes no sense. I have that armor and 24k health and I still die in 1-2 seconds of rom completely invisible thieves, so I don’t understand your point. Try a ranger if you want to complain about weak dps. At least with warriors, I can see them and avoid their damage.

Thieves have strong burst and weak sustained DPS in a backstab build. They have weak burst but decent sustained damage while visible with a sword main hand weapon. Assuming that you are a warrior or guardian with that amount of armor, there ate a great number of skill that can mitigate all the damage a backstab thief can throw at you in that 1 to 2 seconds. This game is not based around passive defence. My thief only has a total of 2.5k armor, but I have yet to get hit by one of these amazing 10k backstabs. That is not to say I haven’t gotten hit by the mug C&D combo, but my dodge is bound to my mouse, so the backstab portion rarely hits.

If you can put out 20k+ damage from complete invisibility in <2 seconds, lack of sustained dps is irrelevant vs most enemies,

You do realize that this thread is about thieves in PVE, right? The only things that are irrelevant here are both of your replies complaining about thieves in WvW when the topic is about poor thief DPS in dungeons.

To the extent that thieves get buffed I pve and those buffs spill over into WvWvW, my comments are completely relevant.

Yeah, Im mainly concerned about PvE. WvW is just an aoe mess when you follow the zerg. Hope to sneak around and mess with one or two players if you can. Other than that, its shortbow city unless you find the poor soul away from the pack. Then you can crit their face in. Saying otherwise and you are kidding yourself.

But I am only concerned with PVE dungeon dps. I have 5 toons to 80, only focus on three. Thief(main), necro, warrior.

Ive run with a condition-blossom thief build. Fun to watch everything burn, but got boring. Switched to a zerker, almost glass-cannon(small surv build in) build via backstab…While backstabbing I never run out of initiative, do bursts of 5-7k damage every few seconds, and auto attack for 2500 total in between backstabs. Feels week since I’ve been playing my warrior.

My warrior is in knight’s gear, but running a near glass-cannon build. I survive enough in dungeons, so this isnt an issue. On a non-gimmick fight(malrona, ahem), my 100blades probably does over 30k+ damage. In the middle of hundred blades I am probably hitting for 6-7k. At the end, with full might stacks, 12-15k. Auto attacks do as much dmg IMO than thief auto attacks. In comparison to survivability, my warrior is on its feet more, and does more damage.

My necro might be the weakest of the three, but not far behind thief, in terms of DPS. Running a vampire build with a mix of knights/zerker gear. All of the friggin self healing Im doing, I never go down in a dungeon and I provide 3 combo fields/aoe condition removal to the group. Plus its fun

Compare this to a thief where the DPS is either middle of the road or lack luster. Medium armor. Decent group utility. I am having a hard time justifying playing my thief in PVE anymore, despite 3 piece ascended
Tried pistol/pistol last night to switch it up. Its not terrible. Almost able to spam unload, and ending unload with a 3.9-4.5k crit.

Eviator.9746:

Oh my goodness. Never EVER try a necro, engineer, or ranger. In comparison the thief is a beast!

Hmmm my ranger is stunningly better at PvE than my thief. Both level 80.

cesmode.4257:

One run of 100b is throwing out somewhere around 30k of dmg. My lowest crit with this is around 4 or 5k…

On my thief I am running a backstab build with the COF set. in PVE I am only getting around 5-7k crits.

You need to maneuver around behind your target to maximize backstab, it does double damage from behind. If 100B is critting for 30k, a properly placed backstab should be critting for 13-15k. A 5-7k crit in that situation implies that you’ve stabbed your foe in the face, which while satisfying does not trigger the doubled damage.

Ensign.2189:

cesmode.4257:

One run of 100b is throwing out somewhere around 30k of dmg. My lowest crit with this is around 4 or 5k…

On my thief I am running a backstab build with the COF set. in PVE I am only getting around 5-7k crits.

You need to maneuver around behind your target to maximize backstab, it does double damage from behind. If 100B is critting for 30k, a properly placed backstab should be critting for 13-15k. A 5-7k crit in that situation implies that you’ve stabbed your foe in the face, which while satisfying does not trigger the doubled damage.

na , that’s kinda my damage on backstab also 7000-9000 in fractals. 2900 p attack 101 crit power.
but warrior won’t do 30k hb either, he will do arround 15-20k depending on might stacks. Ofc if is full glass cannon , ruby orbs 114+ crit damage, 4500 p attack (with 24 might stacks and bloodlust sigil ,Hb can go over 27 k to 30k +

Rayya.2591:

Ensign.2189:

cesmode.4257:

One run of 100b is throwing out somewhere around 30k of dmg. My lowest crit with this is around 4 or 5k…

On my thief I am running a backstab build with the COF set. in PVE I am only getting around 5-7k crits.

You need to maneuver around behind your target to maximize backstab, it does double damage from behind. If 100B is critting for 30k, a properly placed backstab should be critting for 13-15k. A 5-7k crit in that situation implies that you’ve stabbed your foe in the face, which while satisfying does not trigger the doubled damage.

na , that’s kinda my damage on backstab also 7000-9000 in fractals. 2900 p attack 101 crit power.
but warrior won’t do 30k hb either, he will do arround 15-20k depending on might stacks. Ofc if is full glass cannon , ruby orbs 114+ crit damage, 4500 p attack (with 24 might stacks and bloodlust sigil ,Hb can go over 27 k to 30k +

Concerning the bit about the warrior: I disagree.

Im in knight’s gear, so right there its not full glass cannon. Do not have the bloodlust sigil, and probably don’t have the stats youre speaking of, and I can assure you that after the entire 100b is done, I am probably doing well over 30k. Hell, the last strike of 100b crits for 12-15k alone, with full might stacks. The second to last strike can hit 9-11k on a crit. Right there im in the 20k range for the last two strikes of 100b alone. Consider all else, its probably right around 30k, if not more.

I can SS the last hit for you if youd like(when I get home). Ive noticed that my combat log isn’t picking up my crits for channeled abilities, and Im guessing this will hold true for a 100b. So I can SS the last strike of 100b in a dungeon, so you can see that it is critting 12-15 just with that one hit alone.

In CoF, downscaled to level 75(of course I have the other stats of a lvl 80), my last hit of 100b is critting for around 10-11k and thats without full might stacks half the time. Again, right there thats like 90% of the damage youre speaking of when you guestimated a 15-20k total depending on might stacks…and thats at level 75 and at that time, I was in crap masterwork gear without an exotic greatsword.

not sure about all dungeons, my tests were in fractals lvl 20 -24 last time i’ve played my warrior, Hb was arround 17k on same spot my thief do backstabs arround 7000.

cesmode.4257:

Concerning the bit about the warrior: I disagree.

Im in knight’s gear, so right there its not full glass cannon. Do not have the bloodlust sigil, and probably don’t have the stats youre speaking of, and I can assure you that after the entire 100b is done, I am probably doing well over 30k. Hell, the last strike of 100b crits for 12-15k alone, with full might stacks. The second to last strike can hit 9-11k on a crit. Right there im in the 20k range for the last two strikes of 100b alone. Consider all else, its probably right around 30k, if not more.

I can SS the last hit for you if youd like(when I get home). Ive noticed that my combat log isn’t picking up my crits for channeled abilities, and Im guessing this will hold true for a 100b. So I can SS the last strike of 100b in a dungeon, so you can see that it is critting 12-15 just with that one hit alone.

In CoF, downscaled to level 75(of course I have the other stats of a lvl 80), my last hit of 100b is critting for around 10-11k and thats without full might stacks half the time. Again, right there thats like 90% of the damage youre speaking of when you guestimated a 15-20k total depending on might stacks…and thats at level 75 and at that time, I was in crap masterwork gear without an exotic greatsword.

I think what you are seeing is the total damage for HB. When doing channeled attacks the system shows you the total damage of the channeled ability. Each hit does approximately the same amount of damage. As for playing a thief in PVE content, while I don’t feel as powerful as my guardian I definitely think we have some underrated support abilities. Going full dps as a thief is probably a mistake however

Dont use a backstab build you will die instantly… use Shortbow with signet of malices and get the trait that heals when you use initiative. i run AC and CM all the time and i barely die as a thief… you neeed to kite and dodge like crazy.. maybe get the utility skill to stop rangerd attacks when fighting ranged enemies. its not that hard if you know what your doing. also when i go BS build my thief does 5-6k crits and has 20k hp with 1.2k toughness

Mystogan.4157:

Dont use a backstab build you will die instantly… use Shortbow with signet of malices and get the trait that heals when you use initiative. i run AC and CM all the time and i barely die as a thief… you neeed to kite and dodge like crazy.. maybe get the utility skill to stop rangerd attacks when fighting ranged enemies. its not that hard if you know what your doing. also when i go BS build my thief does 5-6k crits and has 20k hp with 1.2k toughness

If you want to play with shortbow, why not just play a ranger? Backstab build is more than possible, you just have to use that magic button.

Rayya.2591:

na , that’s kinda my damage on backstab also 7000-9000 in fractals. 2900 p attack 101 crit power.
but warrior won’t do 30k hb either, he will do arround 15-20k depending on might stacks. Ofc if is full glass cannon , ruby orbs 114+ crit damage, 4500 p attack (with 24 might stacks and bloodlust sigil ,Hb can go over 27 k to 30k +

Right, that’s what I was getting at. With a fully stacked bloodlust sigil, full Might stacks, banners down, food active and hitting a target loaded with vulnerability stacks, a Thief can hit for 15k, pushing 20k with a popped Assassin’s Signet and a lucky damage roll on a soft target. You don’t see that often. Usually, as you said, you’re going to be hitting in the 7-9k range.

Hundred Blades is in a similar boat; with absolutely everything stacked into it, you can break the 30k damage barrier, but more typically it’s going to hit for 15-20k.

As has been alluded to in the meantime, however, it looks like the OP didn’t realize the numbers were adding up to a final value for the full channel, which gives you a very different perception of how much damage you’re dealing.

PVE wise, yea.
WVW/PVP I miss stealth…

My warrior is level 34 and is running around killing small groups of 38-39 NPCs with ease.

My thief would get 2-3 shot by NPCs that level.

I find it much easier leveling the warrior than theif, but in spvp I miss my stealth button and shadowsteps.

iridium.7120:

cesmode.4257:

Concerning the bit about the warrior: I disagree.

Im in knight’s gear, so right there its not full glass cannon. Do not have the bloodlust sigil, and probably don’t have the stats youre speaking of, and I can assure you that after the entire 100b is done, I am probably doing well over 30k. Hell, the last strike of 100b crits for 12-15k alone, with full might stacks. The second to last strike can hit 9-11k on a crit. Right there im in the 20k range for the last two strikes of 100b alone. Consider all else, its probably right around 30k, if not more.

I can SS the last hit for you if youd like(when I get home). Ive noticed that my combat log isn’t picking up my crits for channeled abilities, and Im guessing this will hold true for a 100b. So I can SS the last strike of 100b in a dungeon, so you can see that it is critting 12-15 just with that one hit alone.

In CoF, downscaled to level 75(of course I have the other stats of a lvl 80), my last hit of 100b is critting for around 10-11k and thats without full might stacks half the time. Again, right there thats like 90% of the damage youre speaking of when you guestimated a 15-20k total depending on might stacks…and thats at level 75 and at that time, I was in crap masterwork gear without an exotic greatsword.

I think what you are seeing is the total damage for HB. When doing channeled attacks the system shows you the total damage of the channeled ability. Each hit does approximately the same amount of damage. As for playing a thief in PVE content, while I don’t feel as powerful as my guardian I definitely think we have some underrated support abilities. Going full dps as a thief is probably a mistake however

Wow, I did not know that (if its true). Thats insanely misleading. Well, if thats the case then I do not feel so bad on my thief…if thats the case then the damage differential is much better. Hmm… is there a source that explains this? Or an arenanet post that confirms that?

Why would the game even do that? Id rather see each individual hit.

I think part of the reason warriors and thieves feel pretty different between PvE and PvP, is that the warrior has better base stats and PvE is where hard numbers matter a lot more especially during the lower levels.

In PvP, a thief tends to be more effective the more they can exploit an enemy’s sense of where they are. Sure, stealth drops target in PvE, but you can’t fool a computer like you can a human. There’s some other things too, like the fact that using Infiltrator’s Strike on the sword will immobilize, and prevent an actual human enemy from turning, but not NPCs. Small things like this can drastically change both build effetiveness and profession effectiveness across different modes.

cesmode.4257:

iridium.7120:

cesmode.4257:

Concerning the bit about the warrior: I disagree.

Im in knight’s gear, so right there its not full glass cannon. Do not have the bloodlust sigil, and probably don’t have the stats youre speaking of, and I can assure you that after the entire 100b is done, I am probably doing well over 30k. Hell, the last strike of 100b crits for 12-15k alone, with full might stacks. The second to last strike can hit 9-11k on a crit. Right there im in the 20k range for the last two strikes of 100b alone. Consider all else, its probably right around 30k, if not more.

I can SS the last hit for you if youd like(when I get home). Ive noticed that my combat log isn’t picking up my crits for channeled abilities, and Im guessing this will hold true for a 100b. So I can SS the last strike of 100b in a dungeon, so you can see that it is critting 12-15 just with that one hit alone.

In CoF, downscaled to level 75(of course I have the other stats of a lvl 80), my last hit of 100b is critting for around 10-11k and thats without full might stacks half the time. Again, right there thats like 90% of the damage youre speaking of when you guestimated a 15-20k total depending on might stacks…and thats at level 75 and at that time, I was in crap masterwork gear without an exotic greatsword.

I think what you are seeing is the total damage for HB. When doing channeled attacks the system shows you the total damage of the channeled ability. Each hit does approximately the same amount of damage. As for playing a thief in PVE content, while I don’t feel as powerful as my guardian I definitely think we have some underrated support abilities. Going full dps as a thief is probably a mistake however

Wow, I did not know that (if its true). Thats insanely misleading. Well, if thats the case then I do not feel so bad on my thief…if thats the case then the damage differential is much better. Hmm… is there a source that explains this? Or an arenanet post that confirms that?

Why would the game even do that? Id rather see each individual hit.

you can test in Heart of mists with an warrior lvl 2
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hundred_Blades
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn42kZj0aBg -that’s how it works

So anyone going to tell this guy that trying to find a BACKSTAB build in PvE is not worth it?

PvE (especially dungeons) are about sustained damage… backstab is burst. Stop trying to play PvE like PvP and you’ll find more out of your class.

Jay.3284:

So anyone going to tell this guy that trying to find a BACKSTAB build in PvE is not worth it?

PvE (especially dungeons) are about sustained damage… backstab is burst. Stop trying to play PvE like PvP and you’ll find more out of your class.

5-7k damage every few seconds(when revealed is off) is still considered burst? With a few auto attacks in between

I find that popping synergetic abilities to get one big hit every 30 or so seconds is called burst…

well backstab build is:
Channel C&D // Steal (mug trained) / backstab /lotus strike /heartseeker /heartseeker /hertseeker

cesmode.4257:

Jay.3284:

So anyone going to tell this guy that trying to find a BACKSTAB build in PvE is not worth it?

PvE (especially dungeons) are about sustained damage… backstab is burst. Stop trying to play PvE like PvP and you’ll find more out of your class.

5-7k damage every few seconds(when revealed is off) is still considered burst? With a few auto attacks in between

I find that popping synergetic abilities to get one big hit every 30 or so seconds is called burst…

Yes it’s considered a burst. And regardless D/D is not very optimal for PvE. You’d be better running off S/P if you really want to melee.

S/D is nice for pve with the daze. D/D isn’t as bad as people are saying it is, but it doesn’t provide the same sustained dps a warrior can. I would probably running S/D + D/D, keep an SB handy for when you need it.

Dazing mobs is clutch.

Faeyd.5094:

Hmmm my ranger is stunningly better at PvE than my thief. Both level 80.

frans.8092:

I did and I found that my Necro alt kills a lot easier in PvE then my thief she and rarely dies.

The OP is clearly talking about big scrolling white numbers and short time to kill, not “better” or “easier”, which factors in utility, survivability, group size, and other factors. Thief clearly wins here…either that or it’s a l2p issue.

Jay.3284:

So anyone going to tell this guy that trying to find a BACKSTAB build in PvE is not worth it?

PvE (especially dungeons) are about sustained damage… backstab is burst. Stop trying to play PvE like PvP and you’ll find more out of your class.

If you can handle positioning behind the target consistently then D/D Backstab does have the highest sustained single target damage output of our weapon options, atleast through my testing. If you miss your positioning then it drops down quite a bit though so in practice something with AoE will be better. It’s tough to work backstab effectively on trash but its not bad for a lot of boss fights. I usually run S/D on trash and D/D on bosses.

Currently I’m running a Thief, Guardian and Mesmer and have done some time studies in the mists on killing a set of 3 golems (Heavy>Med>Light) while trying to decide on a Fractals build. D/D Backstab has the best time with P/P and S/D as the next best. D/D with full Zerker was 17 seconds on average, 20 on average with Zerker/Knights and PvE build. P/P came in at 20.5 seconds and S/D at 21.5 seconds. Quick testing with Mesmer and Guardian builds had best case that I could achieve both at around 22 seconds or so, I know these are not known for their damage output though. I’m not fully proficient with my Mesmer yet either. Think I’ll check out warrior next.

It would be nice to see numbers from other classes and testers using a controlled testing method, which are not the best

Attacks like Unload and Pistolwhip ‘count up’ the damage and the final number is your total for the ability. This confused me for a while also.

GL
Blood~

Cesmode: you should try to run a condition build if you play PvE mostly. Its a lot easier taking out groups of enemies, espically if you stack the bleeds. I can get up to about 20 stacks of bleed ticking a about 135 damage each which is pretty fun. In dungeons use the shortbow against big bosses because they can take you down pretty quickly if you get in melee range. And comparing yourself to a warrior isn’t really fair. The warrior is basically an all dps character (for the most part) and has high cirts. If you build a good thief (i suggest condition build) you may think differently about the thief and warrior

I will preface this by saying that I know this test method is not the best or most accurate way to gather data but its the best I’ve come by so far. If anyone has a better option please share it.

Tested Warrior glass cannon build with Berserker’s amulet on the mists golems. Averaged 17 seconds to take down a group of 3 golems using GSword. I will say that I am not very experienced with Warrior but after an hour of testing this is the result I achieved. I also setup a build for PvE and was averaging 20 seconds to kill the group.

This information tells me that Thief is on par with Warrior for raw damage output. This will change with player and environment in practice.

Not sure if this helps but it made me feel a lot better about our classes current state. In fact I think ANet did an OK job balancing raw damage output across the classes that I have tested.

GL out there,
Blood~

Eviator.9746:

The OP is clearly talking about big scrolling white numbers and short time to kill, not “better” or “easier”, which factors in utility, survivability, group size, and other factors. Thief clearly wins here…either that or it’s a l2p issue.

Utility? Survivability? Thief > Necro? Yeah, sure.

frans.8092:

Eviator.9746:

The OP is clearly talking about big scrolling white numbers and short time to kill, not “better” or “easier”, which factors in utility, survivability, group size, and other factors. Thief clearly wins here…either that or it’s a l2p issue.

Utility? Survivability? Thief > Necro? Yeah, sure.

I guess you didn’t know that thieves excel in mobility and stealth. Two very good tools for survivability.

Jay.3284:

frans.8092:

Eviator.9746:

The OP is clearly talking about big scrolling white numbers and short time to kill, not “better” or “easier”, which factors in utility, survivability, group size, and other factors. Thief clearly wins here…either that or it’s a l2p issue.

Utility? Survivability? Thief > Necro? Yeah, sure.

I guess you didn’t know that thieves excel in mobility and stealth. Two very good tools for survivability.

Really, with the necro surviving is easier and knowing the game better now is only part of it. Stealth is the mechanic that really counts for thief survival, mobility is something everyone can bring.

Now, utility, prove how thief brings better utility then necro. You can’t.

Been running p/p and doing really well. 9k unload today

cesmode.4257:

Been running p/p and doing really well. 9k unload today

I can guarantee you that whatever you hit 9k on with unload (considering you landed every single hit), you would have hit over 14k on it with a simple backstab (with a single hit).

I do wish they’d add a mechanic in the forums to see what classes some of the users really play though. It would let the rest of us weed out the trolls much easier.

Kurow.6973:

cesmode.4257:

Been running p/p and doing really well. 9k unload today

I can guarantee you that whatever you hit 9k on with unload (considering you landed every single hit), you would have hit over 14k on it with a simple backstab (with a single hit).

I do wish they’d add a mechanic in the forums to see what classes some of the users really play though. It would let the rest of us weed out the trolls much easier.

You do realize Unload would be easier to set up and would be a much safer approach in PvE.

Sometimes I do wish for that feature myself; or to test the common sense of some players.