Guild Wars 2

In terms of traits, not the stat bonuses:

Deadly arts – underwhelming. Could stand to be buffed a bit.
Critical strikes – in a good place. most thieves take this.
Shadow arts – good and most stealth thieves take this.
Acrobatics – good and most non-stealth thieves take this
Trickery – underwhelming. Could stand to be buffed a bit

Buff deadly arts and trickery to open up more options, and we will have balanced trait trees imo.

I wouldn’t say trickery is that underwhelming, it does have a few good traits available to it, that benefit quite a few builds. It’s got some nice support skills and provides quite high initiative regen with the GM trait.

But I do agree that something like the deadly arts tree is in need of a few slight buffs especially after that lotus poison nerf. Also the GM traits aren’t really that great if you compare them to all ones we have access to.

Every traitline is useful and each one could be better.

I kinda have to disagree with trickery being underwhelming. I use it for a solid DPS increase and decent support w/ steal. Deadly arts on the other hand I hate speccing in. Never go deeper than 10 for Mug.

The Deadly Arts line mostly suffers from “needs to do something else-itus”. Most of the traits are lacking in interesting or significant functionality.

Kind of down the list:

• Back Fighting: Downed traits in general suffer from being very niche. While it’s true +50% damage could save your life, having another trait while you’re still up could’ve prevented you from being horizontal in the first place. Any additional functionality could make this more appealing. Maybe a knock negation on a cooldown? I don’t know. Just anything useful for when you’re not trying to hail the world’s shortest taxi.
• Corrosive Traps: There’s not much thieves can really do to flesh out traps. That’s a ranger thing. Vulnerability isn’t a very exciting condition, and does nothing to get you excited about taking traps for more than their core functionality. Functionally, it works, since our traps are mostly about setups to better things, it’s just not exciting.
• Mug: <3
• Venomous Strength: Venom builds usually go down DA. It’s represented well enough. Venoms kind of suffer from the reverse of traps in that they’re pretty horrible without traits, but that’s its own thing. Lucky for you, your venom hopscotch course is well lit and easy to follow.
• Potent Poison: By no means a bad trait, since poison is awesome, but of questionable usefulness. Most thief builds have either majority uptime available on poison or very little. Sometimes taken because there’s “nothing better”. Lotus Poison might’ve been more interesting folded into this, rather than used as a minor.
• Sundering Strikes: Our “on crit” condition is… yeah, vulnerability. -_-; Not very much of it either. Feels like it should’ve been a Critical Strikes minor trait.
• Improvisation: I think thieves are not big fans of RNG. This has enough going for it to earn its spot, but I doubt it’ll ever be popular. Because Steal related abilities are often called “bundles”, the added damage functionality is ambiguous and misleading.
• Quick Venoms: All aboard the venom bus! Here’s your cookie cutter trait #2.
• Dagger Training: Boooooooring. Since launch, a lot of weapon damage traits have seen some nice revisions. Bonus stats, interesting procs, range boosts and a variety of other effects to piggy-back off the damage increases and cooldown improvements. Raw numbers traits are dull and add nothing to the texture and flavor of a build.
• Combined Training: See above, but with just one button. Unload spam for the eff tee snoring double-yew.
• Panic Strike: Aww yeah, a grandmast… what? A root triggered around a condition I cannot control? I mean, I guess it makes sense. I don’t want someone running away while I’m making a rumpburger pie out of their bowels. I suppose it can sometimes prove useful, but it’s not going to change the way you play, which we kind of expect from GMs. Oh wait, silly me. If I put 30 in DA, I obviously came here for…
• Residual Venom: Here you go, venom monkey. Your dessert course. I hope you enjoyed your clearly charted course through the wilds of DA, because it’s a barren wasteland for the rest of us.

Edit: I didn’t touch on Trickery, cuz I likes me some Trickery. While arguments could be made against the raw power of its traits, most are at least interesting or play-shaping in some way or another. There’s some room for improvement, but I like the cut of its jib.

DA bad trait line – usefull only for 100-250+ power from trait. It would be better if it were made fully for conditions.

Replace power/condition damage from DA/Trickery

It’s really annoying because deadly arts SHOULD be the power/condition duration tree. The stats makes sense, but the traits are underwhelming.

I agree with you on the Deadly Arts tree but I also think that the SA tree is a bit off. You have almost no traits that support the venom share build as 90% of the skills are stealth based. To thieves that like playing with a S/D or a S/P or a P/P it’s almost useless, which is half of our weapon sets.

Clockwork Bard.3105:

• Improvisation: I think thieves are not big fans of RNG. This has enough going for it to earn its spot, but I doubt it’ll ever be popular. Because Steal related abilities are often called “bundles”, the added damage functionality is ambiguous and misleading.

When I last tested this several patches ago the only thing I noticed it increasing damage on was summoned ele weapons. Has anyone been able to get Bonus damage from this? or is it only taken for the RNG CDR?

In GW2 Beta as a thief when you stole an item it would replace your weapon skills, and this trait boosted all those skills. The thief steal bundle mechanic was changed to what we have now, and the trait has been left the same since then.

*To use this trait to full effect you have to team up with an ele who summons weapons. *(Not very likely)

OIIIIIO.7825:

Clockwork Bard.3105:

• Improvisation: I think thieves are not big fans of RNG. This has enough going for it to earn its spot, but I doubt it’ll ever be popular. Because Steal related abilities are often called “bundles”, the added damage functionality is ambiguous and misleading.

When I last tested this several patches ago the only thing I noticed it increasing damage on was summoned ele weapons. Has anyone been able to get Bonus damage from this? or is it only take for the RNG CDR?

In GW2 Beta as a thief when you stole an item it would replace your weapon skills, and this trait boosted all those skills. The thief steal bundle mechanic was changed to what we have now, and the trait has been left the same since then.

*To use this trait to full effect you have to team up with an ele who summons weapons. *(Not very likely)

I’ve tested it in a handful of situations, and it does seem to only apply to items that replace your weapon bar. General consensus seems to be (really no idea how to test this proper) that it bolsters WvW siege weapon. At this point, it should probably be an engineer trait. We can trade them. We’ll take… um… I don’t know, how about Incendiary Powder. I’m sure they’re not using it. <.<;

Clockwork Bard.3105:

OIIIIIO.7825:

Clockwork Bard.3105:

• Improvisation: I think thieves are not big fans of RNG. This has enough going for it to earn its spot, but I doubt it’ll ever be popular. Because Steal related abilities are often called “bundles”, the added damage functionality is ambiguous and misleading.

When I last tested this several patches ago the only thing I noticed it increasing damage on was summoned ele weapons. Has anyone been able to get Bonus damage from this? or is it only take for the RNG CDR?

In GW2 Beta as a thief when you stole an item it would replace your weapon skills, and this trait boosted all those skills. The thief steal bundle mechanic was changed to what we have now, and the trait has been left the same since then.

*To use this trait to full effect you have to team up with an ele who summons weapons. *(Not very likely)

I’ve tested it in a handful of situations, and it does seem to only apply to items that replace your weapon bar. General consensus seems to be (really no idea how to test this proper) that it bolsters WvW siege weapon. At this point, it should probably be an engineer trait. We can trade them. We’ll take… um… I don’t know, how about Incendiary Powder. I’m sure they’re not using it. <.<;

As mentioned thats because in early beta thief steals were bundles that replaced your weapon bar. And with that in mind, the trait made sense, its just behind the times, needs an update for current steal mechanics, which is odd, because they have adjusted the trait in the past, but never fixed this aspect

Clockwork Bard.3105:

I’ve tested it in a handful of situations, and it does seem to only apply to items that replace your weapon bar. General consensus seems to be (really no idea how to test this proper) that it bolsters WvW siege weapon. At this point, it should probably be an engineer trait. We can trade them. We’ll take… um… I don’t know, how about Incendiary Powder. I’m sure they’re not using it. <.<;

I will test this to find out about potential siege damage increases. (That would be OP giggle)

OIIIIIO.7825:

Clockwork Bard.3105:

I’ve tested it in a handful of situations, and it does seem to only apply to items that replace your weapon bar. General consensus seems to be (really no idea how to test this proper) that it bolsters WvW siege weapon. At this point, it should probably be an engineer trait. We can trade them. We’ll take… um… I don’t know, how about Incendiary Powder. I’m sure they’re not using it. <.<;

I will test this to find out about potential siege damage increases. (That would be OP giggle)

Let us know. excited

Improvisation REALLY need to be updated as its an wasted trait that does nothing for the thief if picked. 10% when wielding a bundle? really? Not even in PvE is this trait worth being picked, at all!!!

And yes… DA (as well as CS trait line) could use some fresh and more interesting trait lines that buffs our signet/traps/venoms to make the effects more hurtful on our opponents.

Traps could, for example, have some trait line that make it ground targeting or cause 15% more damage, or upon steal you instantly lay down a 4 traps incircling your opponent (like a box) as an example. Something that adds a bit more game mechanic to strategic ways of playing the thief of being that thief with tricks up his sleeve.

These are just basic ideas that i only imagined to give a sort of imagery of what thief trait lines could be instead of just boring, (5% dagger damage) blah blah.

deadly art trait is the worst trait in GW2… all of em are useless except the MUG… ya the only good trait which arena net nerfed it! thats why i see no thief will gonna use deadly arts trait above 10

So the general concensus actually seems to be that all other trees are more or less okay except for deadly arts which is bad.

I wonder if devs did this on purpose to screw over burst thieves which were strong at one point I guess.

Excalibur.9748:

So the general concensus actually seems to be that all other trees are more or less okay except for deadly arts which is bad.

I wonder if devs did this on purple to screw over burst thieves from becoming too strong.

no they wont gonna fix it… cuz no anet devs playing thief and ranger period. or if theyre playing thief i think theyre not that good. nothing but some BAD thief in spvp. just a guess LOL

Coloxeus.3480:

Excalibur.9748:

So the general concensus actually seems to be that all other trees are more or less okay except for deadly arts which is bad.

I wonder if devs did this on purple to screw over burst thieves from becoming too strong.

no they wont gonna fix it… cuz no anet devs playing thief and ranger period. or if theyre playing thief i think theyre not that good. nothing but some BAD thief in spvp. just a guess LOL

There was 1 ranger dev, Robert Hrouda but he got laid off lol. So I guess you’re right.

I’ll agree with the sentiment about deadly arts. I play a condi thief and have since launch. The only two good reasons to take DA were mug and lotus, mug got an interesting rework (that just so happenned to buff my SoM passive heal build) but lotus was straight up nerfed when our poison uptime was increased, presumably to keep us from perma-weakening stuff along with easily perma poisoning it.

I use and LIKE improvisation (I actually use it for the RNG in my build) but I agree that it needs to, at the very least, count stolen items as a bundle for the purposes of the damage bonus.

After the update to the GM Trickery finally got the love it needed to be a viable 30-pointer but deadly arts still has several traits that are just “meh” and need to be addressed.

In addition, the range on our venom share and trickery’s group buffs should be increased to at least match that of warrior banners. I mean we have group utility on paper, but in practice the range makes it nearly impossible to apply.

I’d like to see Deadly arts:
Buff traps and venoms by adding a second use, drasitcally lowered cooldown, or heck, have traits for both so you can actually set up for effective non-shared venom builds or trap builds that don’t just suck.

Give us a worthwhile condition proc on crit or like every other class so we have more gear options.

Give us bonus procs on bleed application (+X damage for each stack of bleeding on the target would be a good start and fit with the tree and class)

Otherwise I think our trait lines are in a pretty good place as a whole, although there are some individual traits that need looked at.

The thief trait lines are pretty good. All of them have their place even if some traits are lackluster. The good traits are necessary though since many thief skills go unused.

…Improvisation isn’t that bad. 3 skill types is a 60% chance and doesn’t it work with whirling axe? I think more would like it if Anet moved it into trickery and swapped it with flanking strikes or something.

Replace power/condition damage from DA/Trickery

this would be nice…but very op (and no class has cond duration/cond dmg in one trait)

and improvisation is very bad…its from betas, where stolen weapons were bundles (whirling axe). now its just those sticks or rusty weapons that u can collect in pve.

i think it would be enough if they would swap some traits/minors etc. from DA to trickery and vice versa.
example:
-Serpent’s Touch , smells like a nice trickery minor
-Exposed Weakness , also more trickery

and i would really love kleptomanic/preparedness/thrill of the crime on DA…just for the power this line gives

Domey.9804:

Replace power/condition damage from DA/Trickery

this would be nice…but very op (and no class has cond duration/cond dmg in one trait)

and improvisation is very bad…its from betas, where stolen weapons were bundles (whirling axe). now its just those sticks or rusty weapons that u can collect in pve.

i think it would be enough if they would swap some traits/minors etc. from DA to trickery and vice versa.
example:
-Serpent’s Touch , smells like a nice trickery minor
-Exposed Weakness , also more trickery

and i would really love kleptomanic/preparedness/thrill of the crime on DA…just for the power this line gives

Serpent’s touch and exposed weakness are way better than kleptomaniac/preparedness/thrill of the crime. Lead attacks is fairly decent though, but still not as good as exposed weakness. Besides, buffing stealing is the the theme for trickery, and putting steal related traits in DA makes no sense at all.

serpern’s touch is also steal related
i know exposed weakness is awesome, it was just an example maybe not the best.
swapping thrill of the crime to DA would make DA more desirable, while it wouldnt hurt trickery too much as most prefer trickery for condi builts. only the first 15 points are act. usefull for burst setups.
DA is for bursting, as it gives power. mug is no longer good for bursts, its for sustained dmg. thrill of the crime would be a better adept trait in DA.
if you run a burst setup you dont need poison on steal, cuz 1. you have low cond dmg 2.you dont want to give the enemy time to heal. so 3 ini on steal/preparedness would be better = 1 more hs / fs /whatever. en plus, condition builts do not need much iniative in a short time, unlike burst builds.
and cond builts may want some more poison, serpent’s touch, perhaps venom traits into trickery….and so on
would be a win/win situation

Domey.9804:

serpern’s touch is also steal related
i know exposed weakness is awesome, it was just an example maybe not the best.
swapping thrill of the crime to DA would make DA more desirable, while it wouldnt hurt trickery too much as most prefer trickery for condi builts. only the first 15 points are act. usefull for burst setups.
DA is for bursting, as it gives power. mug is no longer good for bursts, its for sustained dmg. thrill of the crime would be a better adept trait in DA.
if you run a burst setup you dont need poison on steal, cuz 1. you have low cond dmg 2.you dont want to give the enemy time to heal. so 3 ini on steal/preparedness would be better = 1 more hs / fs /whatever. en plus, condition builts do not need much iniative in a short time, unlike burst builds.
and cond builts may want some more poison, serpent’s touch, perhaps venom traits into trickery….and so on
would be a win/win situation

Lol DA is just the generic DPS branch. It’s not necessarily only for burst builds. I don’t know if there any more burst builds anyways I think they’re dead.

Poison is better than power/fury/swiftness imo since it neutralizes healing by 33% which is actually gonna be better than the little added damage from thrill of the crime. The goal is to take out the character in the first 14 seconds and serpent’s touch accomplishes this with poison uptime.

Mug may no longer be good for bursting, but it’s still one of the best DA traits.

I dunno if burst builds invest in DA but aren’t burst builds dead anyways?

I use DA for control due to the stat combo of power/condition duration which is the best stat combo imo. Combined with super veggie pizza you can get up to 70% condition duration which is actually really useful considering the traits you can get in DA and is good for neutralizing annoying characters that try to disengage when low HP.

Any of those traits you suggested for trait are pretty bad and not suitable for this stat combination imo. If anything I think DA needs more poison and weakness uptime. Add in poison on crit trait, and remove lotus poison icd and perhaps buff serpent’s touch to include torment that would make DA a lot more effective as the DPS/control tree.