Guild Wars 2

I tried writing something, but it sucked. So I made (streamed) a video. It’s pretty long and moves along slowly, but pretty in depth, and not shallow at all. Puns not included. Watch it and comment. It’s worth it, for thieves glory.

http://www.twitch.tv/oxygg/c/2424808

The main points include:

1) Skill redundancy
2) Bad stealth-breaker skills
3) Doesn’t feel thiefly
4) Skill unoriginality copied from ground skills
5) No means of stealthing
6) Senseless/lazy utility selection
7) Poor design (condition vs. power)
8) Lack of combo fields and finishers

My opinion about the issue.

I’ll start by saying condition builds will probably suck forever for underwater thieves, they need to add another weapon or introduce weapon skill alternatives for each slot on both weapon to adress the issue.

Spear:

-Auto attack: It’s good
-Stealth attack: It’s terrible as you said.
-Flanking strike: needs to be a leap finisher.
-9 tailed strike: It’s good, i completly disagree with you about this skill, if anything i’d like to see more counter skills added on this class in the futur, be it underwater or on land.
-Skill that should be deleted because it is terrible: Skill that should be deleted because it is terrible (same goes for the necro version)
-Shadow Assault: This skill is broken, yes it looks cool and it’s probably the only thing they should keep about that skill, but god is it op. This skill for agility thief builds is basically perma evade, the only way you will ever die is if you’re swarmed and chained with multiple sinks in a row since they actually work against evades (seems anet saw it was op but instead of fixing it, they just made sink counter evade, makes sense… NOT).

Conclusion: Stealth attack need to be buffed at least damage wise, 4 and 5 need a complete rework, 2 needs a small boost (leap finisher would do it, especially as you said if they add smoke fields somewhere, remove the vulnerability because nobody really cares i guess). I feel this weapon needs to have one, if not multiple access to stealth, be it directly like c&d or by the use of combos like hs + bp.

Harpoon Gun:

-Auto Attack: Weak damage and not that good at applying bleeds. Same issue than pistol imo, it needs to shoot faster AND do more damage. That would help with condition and power builds.
-Stealth Attack: My sides… I was actually waiting you to bash that atrocious subpar monstruosity. Complete change, damage is bad (same damage than an auto attack), bleed application is bad, add to that the 1s cast time on top of it… Terrible.
-Deluge: It’s basically p/p unload but a bit more powerfull (not 100% sure about that). It’s a good skill for power builds but because the auto attack is terrible, as a power build you’ll probably spam it over and over. Same issue than p/p, auto attack and deluge balance in damage is out of whack and should be addressed to open room for the other skills.
-Escape: It’s basically the underwater version of the sb disabling shot but with a slower startup, with a touch of chocking gas. Poison should last a bit longer, the projectile should actually apply poison (it could combo directly with the field, like black powder does in order to apply a blind). It’s not so bad imo.
-Disabling shot: same name than the sb skill, except it has an atrocious cast time, doesn’t provide a dodge, does meh damage. This skill actually reminds me of dancing dagger, smae slot, cripples but without the bounces and an atrocious cast time. Basically it’s crap. Coincidence, I think not.
-Ink shot: Good skill, maybe a smoke field so you could use it, swap to spear and use improved flanking strike for a stealth.

Conclusion: Stealth skill is horrible and you can’t access to it unless you use your healing skill or last refuge procs (honestly it’s so hard to access that you’d expect it to be guillotine fist/asura strike reincarnated in gw2 but nope, it’s terrible). 4 is useless. Auto attack and deluge damage balance isn’t good enough resulting in spamming deluge over and over while ignoring other skills being generally the best option.

Utility skills:

-Venoms: Well venom are weak to begin with and are only really useable with a very specific build, devourer/basilisk being the exceptions i guess. Not much to say, venom being what they are and building specially for underwater being what it is, they will generally be bad choices.
-Signet: Thief signet are good, shadow signet is probably the lesser choice, agility and infiltration probably the best choices if you intend to abuse perma dodge.
-Haste: That’s a really personal opinion, but i really think this utility skill is garbage.
-Roll for initiative: Godly skill underwater for perma dodge abuse and simply for the fact it will render you unkillable combined with withdraw and ink shot.
-Scorpion wire: It can be used i guess, doesn’t change the fact it’s far to weak as an utility skill to begin with.
-Caltrops: Engineer tool kit as the same skill, and can be used underwater unlike thieves. That’s all i have to say.

Conclusion: Well i think everyone knows thieves utility/elite underwater choice is terrible (that’s pretty much the case for every class though). I really think utility skill should have an underwater version no matter what, even if it is not the same skill at all.
Deception aren’t even hard to make:
-Blinding powder? Ink bomb, same effect.
-Shadow refuge? Same skill but a non targetted bubble around you.
-Smoke screen? Ink wall/screen (It could work with leap finishers for stealth!!!)

I’ll bring back caltrops to show that lazyness is pretty much the only reason it doesn’t work underwater (and that underwater in general is kinda lacking) and that thief guild actually follow you underwater but somehow doesn’t seems to know how to use a spear or an harpoon gun, i guess it’s harder than popping out from the void.

That’s pretty much it.

Thieve is pretty OP under water if played right.

Roll for the init + withdraw will get you across the entire lake almost, certainly out of clip range.

Infiltrators signet for regen, spam 5 and never get hit.

Under water fighting is terrible in this game no matter what class you are.

swinsk.6410:

Thieve is pretty OP under water if played right.

Roll for the init + withdraw will get you across the entire lake almost, certainly out of clip range.

Infiltrators signet for regen, spam 5 and never get hit.

Under water fighting is terrible in this game no matter what class you are.

Absolutely, however, the video wasn’t really meant to cover balance.

Puru.4217:

-9 tailed strike: It’s good, i completly disagree with you about this skill, if anything i’d like to see more counter skills added on this class in the futur, be it underwater or on land.

My explanation against it is that it feels very warrior-like (in fact, warriors have an ~exact copy of the skill); blocking doesn’t feel thiefly. It’s poor thematic. It is a good skill (both in usabilty and concept), but not for the class.

If anything, it could be changed to something where the thief “blurs” or prepares to move until an attack is made against it, dodging out of the way when attacked and hiting the target from behind for damage, providing some additionnal evasion. Now, THAT would be a thief skill.

I dunno, when i picture a thief i picture somebody that fights dirty and looking for openings rather than using brutal force. Basically i imagine somebody that use evades in order to position himself or escape, venoms to weaken his target on the long run or even after failing (yeah, not the current version basically), traps to initiate an attack (rather than the current trap bombing that plague every mmo since creation, that include ranger aswell), strike first (stealth basically make this possible) and wait for an opening/counters/dirty attacks (throwing dirt for example, blinds basically) if the fight won’t end fast. Trying to run away if the fight is lost actually kinda fits aswell.

Baiting hits for a counter in order to inflict damage just sound good on that archetype imo, but it would probably feel more thiefly if it was on a bare handed or relativly small weapon set rather than using a two handed spear i guess.

Your blur idea is also pretty good, it’s basically a counter but using mobility to evade and flank rather than a direct physical counter, it’s a bit like fs though but less powerful since it needs to bait a hit.

Yeah, it’d probably replace flanking strike, and Deepseeker could provide a leap finisher for the new Ink Bomb.