Thief utilities awful for PvE
I cant honestly think of another utility we have that is even close to as good as those 3 for PvE dungeons. Someone want to school me on our utilities or is this really how abysmal our options in PvE are?
Blinding powder, shadow refuge. Give your panicked ally an aggro drop, especially useful for revivals.
I think there’s more, but I’ve found those ones very universally useful.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
Conditions bypass toughness. Stack dem bleedz!
Conditions bypass toughness. Stack dem bleedz!
they also cant crit, and have a stack limit.
I cant honestly think of another utility we have that is even close to as good as those 3 for PvE dungeons. Someone want to school me on our utilities or is this really how abysmal our options in PvE are?
Blinding powder, shadow refuge. Give your panicked ally an aggro drop, especially useful for revivals.
I think there’s more, but I’ve found those ones very universally useful.
ya i forgot about SR, blinding powder isnt so good its like 1/4 of a SR
ya i forgot about SR, blinding powder isnt so good its like 1/4 of a SR
But it is instant.
Incredibly useful when panicing or to help an almost dying ally.
To be honest, Thieves have more useful utilities compared to some other professions in PvE.
Venom Share is a good support build in PvE. Not as good as a guardian, sure, but since you’re still able to deal decent damage when running support, it makes that build worth taking.
Don’t understimate Basilisk Venom when shared, neither the permaweakness and the high vulnerability stacks Skale Venom gives.
Roll for Initiative is extremely useful. Who wants some extra initiative to burst down a boss and a “save your kitten ” ability on the same skill?
Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder I think it is pretty hard to argue against their usefulness.
Signet of Agility and Assassin Signet, useful. As you said.
Smoke Screen is a projectile block skill. Extremely useful also considering it is a smoke field.
Ambush is half a Thieves’ Guild with lower cooldown. How can you guys think it is useless?
Shadowstep saves your kitten and cleanse you up. It is useful in some hard situations and I can’t live without it.
Haste is quickness. Quickness is always useful. Always.
The count of useful skill is 13 on 20. I think the situation is not that bad considering we are talking about PvE only.
Conditions bypass toughness. Stack dem bleedz!
they also cant crit, and have a stack limit.
True. But your main sources of bleeds are coupled with either dodging (Death Blossom), cripple (Dagger Storm) or both (Uncatchable, caltrops). Not only that, rabid/carrion gets you vitality and toughness which just adds to survivability.
Its better than turning everything into butter with zerk imo.
Conditions bypass toughness. Stack dem bleedz!
they also cant crit, and have a stack limit.
True. But your main sources of bleeds are coupled with either dodging (Death Blossom), cripple (Dagger Storm) or both (Uncatchable, caltrops). Not only that, rabid/carrion gets you vitality and toughness which just adds to survivability.
Its better than turning everything into butter with zerk imo.
You shouldn’t need any vitality or toughness in PvE after a certain point of knowing boss fights. And if more than 2 people in your party have a %chance2bleedOnCrit thing your screwed. Condition specs are fine I guess in premade for PvE if everyone even cares enough to select roles (not likely due to EZ content) and even then a necromancer could do 10x more condition damage and actually have decent support spells to boot.
…Not only that, rabid/carrion gets you vitality and toughness which just adds to survivability.
No they don’t, there is no armour type that adds Condition Damage, Toughness and Vitality. Carrion adds power and vitality while rabid adds toughness and precision. While power tends to be always useful, even on a condition build, precision is not (as it requires high power and crit damage), making rabid useless.
…Not only that, rabid/carrion gets you vitality and toughness which just adds to survivability.
No they don’t, there is no armour type that adds Condition Damage, Toughness and Vitality. Carrion adds power and vitality while rabid adds toughness and precision. While power tends to be always useful, even on a condition build, precision is not (as it requires high power and crit damage), making rabid useless.
The implication was that one could use a combination of Rabid and Carrion armor. Also, precision is about proccing on-crit effects, like possibly a sigil of earth or the “gain initiative on crit” trait.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
…Not only that, rabid/carrion gets you vitality and toughness which just adds to survivability.
No they don’t, there is no armour type that adds Condition Damage, Toughness and Vitality. Carrion adds power and vitality while rabid adds toughness and precision. While power tends to be always useful, even on a condition build, precision is not (as it requires high power and crit damage), making rabid useless.
The implication was that one could use a combination of Rabid and Carrion armor. Also, precision is about proccing on-crit effects, like possibly a sigil of earth or the “gain initiative on crit” trait.
Proccing on crit sigils are not that useful IMO, especially not with a low crit-chance. Cooldowns and low crit-chance – it’s still low even with full Rabid – and the (usually) 30% on crit make them trigger not frequent enough to be of use. And where you put an on-crit sigil, you can’t have another, and the only useful on-crit traits are in critical strikes which is not a trait line usually associated with a condition build.
I can’t understand how you forgot Shadow Refuge in the opening post, that’s simply our best PvE skill (gives you second chances for anything, res multiple players, skips hard content in dungeons, gets ALL commune skill points without caring about the champions guarding them, and many more uses…).
Also in a Sharer build Spider Venom does much more than that: The leech is shared between players, and while there is no visible white number, it does extra damage (even when it doesn’t heal because you’re at max HP it still does extra damage). If you share it right before an assault it’s pretty easy to share with everyone in the party and in adition to the poison (+weakness from lotus poison) it deals around 13-15K armor ignoring direct damage (leeched damage is stable, 5 leechs for you and 5 other party members), 13-15k damage (and distributed heal) from pressing a single skill is great. Even if you already have started the fight, if you’ve learned how to move between lines (I recommend a P/D and Shortbow for sharer role as they allow you to move between lines without losing efficency) you can share it with at least 2 others plus you (and if you summoned them, your Thieves Guild too). Shared Devourer Venom is also great in an AoE ranged party as it spreads Inmob over an horde of mobs and gives your group plenty of time to nuke them (there are many situations in dungeons where this is very useful).
The other 2 venoms I agree need a rework or at least much lesser recharge times (Spider Venom with lotus poison does the same than Skale and then more).
Those (Shadow Refuge, Spider Venom and Devourer Venom plus Thieves Guild as Elite) are the ones that I use, but we got plenty of useful utilities for PvE. In fact some of the ones you mentioned are considered more PvP than PvE skills compared with many others in our list.
I can’t understand how you forgot Shadow Refuge in the opening post, that’s simply our best PvE skill (gives you second chances for anything, res multiple players, skips hard content in dungeons, gets ALL commune skill points without caring about the champions guarding them, and many more uses…).
Also in a Sharer build Spider Venom does much more than that: The leech is shared between players, and while there is no visible white number, it does extra damage (even when it doesn’t heal because you’re at max HP it still does extra damage). If you share it right before an assault it’s pretty easy to share with everyone in the party and in adition to the poison (+weakness from lotus poison) it deals around 13-15K armor ignoring direct damage (leeched damage is stable, 5 leechs for you and 5 other party members), 13-15k damage (and distributed heal) from pressing a single skill is great. Even if you already have started the fight, if you’ve learned how to move between lines (I recommend a P/D and Shortbow for sharer role as they allow you to move between lines without losing efficency) you can share it with at least 2 others plus you (and if you summoned them, your Thieves Guild too). Shared Devourer Venom is also great in an AoE ranged party as it spreads Inmob over an horde of mobs and gives your group plenty of time to nuke them (there are many situations in dungeons where this is very useful).
The other 2 venoms I agree need a rework or at least much lesser recharge times (Spider Venom with lotus poison does the same than Skale and then more).
Those (Shadow Refuge, Spider Venom and Devourer Venom plus Thieves Guild as Elite) are the ones that I use, but we got plenty of useful utilities for PvE. In fact some of the ones you mentioned are considered more PvP than PvE skills compared with many others in our list.
Shadow refuge is great ya especially in the dredge fract / ressing noobs, IN the OP I was thinking more along the lines of straight damage, my bad. However there no convincing me that venom share is not garbage. I see so many people trying to turn what is imo a cool skill/talent no doubt, into something its not. You try and look for everything and anything to make it seem worth it to the point of tricking yourself into some weird spec thats worse than any cookie cutter d/d + sb spec. If venoms were a on crit or % chance to proc on dmg then maybe it would be worth it. But for venom share to be as useful as possible you need to waste all your ultilty slots, go condition spec, and lose alot of other stuff, not to mention getting everyone in range of it is almost impossible during combakittens NEVER worth it.
Shadow refuge is great ya especially in the dredge fract / ressing noobs, IN the OP I was thinking more along the lines of straight damage, my bad. However there no convincing me that venom share is not garbage. I see so many people trying to turn what is imo a cool skill/talent no doubt, into something its not. You try and look for everything and anything to make it seem worth it to the point of tricking yourself into some weird spec thats worse than any cookie cutter d/d + sb spec. If venoms were a on crit or % chance to proc on dmg then maybe it would be worth it. But for venom share to be as useful as possible you need to waste all your ultilty slots, go condition spec, and lose alot of other stuff, not to mention getting everyone in range of it is almost impossible during combakittens NEVER worth it.
About the venoms on crit: NO, THANKS BUT NO. Precission + Condition in a Thief (and any profession not named Necromancer, and maybe, with a big question mar, Ranger) is pure garbage so the least we need to combine it the better (Precission is a garbage atribute to get Direct Damage, really, absolutely terrible on its own).
About the difficulty of sharing I can say I’ve mastered the build and you always find ways to share it. I’m not tricking my own mind trying to justify those skills as you say, I’m telling you with this build I’ve completed multiple high end dungeons being by far the most valuable member of the team, protecting them all the time and ressing them. You won’t share it with all the party except for the initial assault on each boss and horde, but during a combat you find it really easy to share it with at least 2-3 other teamates, and the Thieves Guild help to reach the max. Ice Drake and Skale are garbage, I won’t say anything against that, but Spider and Devourer work really well. And could the sharer get some help? Maybe, but it’s a very efficent build.
Anyway, that’s just one example of useful utilities on a Thief from a long list, and from months of experience in high end content using that build I can tell you it does wonders and you do share your venoms with at least 3-4 other players in a group you’re familiarized with, and 2-3 in a PUG. A Shortbow gives a lot of extra “utility” (not utility slots, but spreading Weakness and triggering every combo field with a blast is huge) for team support too. And I don’t think straigthpesonal damage utility skills are the ideal PvE skills, they are more solo and PvP skills in my view as they only help yourself.
(edited by Lokheit.7943)
How can people say Venom Share build is bad?
You are essentialy giving your allies Might stacks with each venom used, plus a bunch of conditions on mobs (expecially weakness, poison and vulnerability).
Plus, each time a venom is triggered, it heals the ally for ~400 hp (depending on YOUR healing power) and deals ~400 more damage (depending on power).
That means that a single Spider Venom is ~400 × 6 heal and more damage, which is 2400 HP healed and 2400 more damage dealt for each ally who gets the venom.
Consider also that you probably have 4 venoms with relative conditions.
And you also deal decent damage, since venom traits are in the power traitline.
Yeah, pretty bad… LOL
(edited by sorrow.2364)
Yesss, I can see it now, “Hey guys, stand all around me for a few secs so I can heal you for 400 and buff you for 2 stack of might”. Wow man, so good.
Yesss, I can see it now, “Hey guys, stand all around me for a few secs so I can heal you for 400 and buff you for 2 stack of might”. Wow man, so good.
Did you at least read what I wrote?
It is:
- 2 stacks of might
- 800 to 2600 hp healed (depending on venom)
- 800 to 2600 more damage dealt (depending on venom)
- Conditions applied on every skill used
And this is for each ally affected by your venom and for each venom you use. Also if you succed to use it on just one ally, it is still not bad at all.
I don’t know how you depicted in your mind venom share builds and I can imagine how it is hard to put away your prejudices about this build and the usual stupid sarcasm which is around in the thief forum, but try to think for a couple of seconds about it. Just a couple of seconds.
You’ll realize that it isn’t that bad at all.
(edited by sorrow.2364)
Yesss, I can see it now, “Hey guys, stand all around me for a few secs so I can heal you for 400 and buff you for 2 stack of might”. Wow man, so good.
EVERYONE STACK HERE
Edit: Even for fights that people (especially PUGs) don’t try to blast through with a stacking tactic, all you have to do is get yourself close between two of your allies to be effective. Most venoms are instant, so you can do the positioning yourself. It’s actually pretty easy if you have a couple melee teammates.
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Venom builds suck because the amount of damage you, yourself lose is not even close to what you would add to the parties over damage. If only this game had damage meters…
The PvE meta is all about doing content as fast as possible, since no one ever really dies or needs support. Really go ahead right now and ask yourself whens the last time you thought “We might not be able to finish this dungeon due to our group composition / specs”, you can beat a lvl 50 fractal with 5 bunker guardians or 5 zerker thiefs…
As long as there is no challenging content or a dps meter it wont matter if you spec 0-0-0-0-0. You CAN do venom share but we all know its not as optimal as a pure power damage build.
Lokheit
>Precision is a garbage atribute to get Direct Damage, really, absolutely terrible on its own
you realize how dumb that sounds?
V
Lokheit
>Precision is a garbage atribute to get Direct Damage, really, absolutely terrible on its ownyou realize how dumb that sounds?
Dumb? Ok this is something I’ve said before and it’s real:
You know that if you do the maths to distribute 1000 atribute points between power and precission and derivate to get the maximum damage scenario, the result is that in adition to giving all the 1000 points to Power, you should substract Precission from your initial 916 (something that you can’t really do, of course, but it’s the MAX scenario) and give them to Power, resulting in a very small percentage of anti-crits (strikes that heal your targer) to get the MAX possible damage on the distribution?
That’s how garbage Precission is to get damage on its own, to the point that substracting from it so some of your hits heal your target still gives you more damage than investing on it and not in Power. If you have to chose between one of them (Rabid versus Carrion), Power curbstomps it.
Precission is only useful when you already have as much power as you can get, and also tons of Critical Damage (meaning wasting 3 atribute lines).
Even when you have the maximum Critical Damage you can get, Power is still muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better than Precission to get direct damage.
Of course it increases your damage and if you’re in rush mode and won’t receive too much damage you can do it to get peak damage and that’s what most people do to rush things, but Precission by itself is PURE GARBAGE compared with Power. Mathematically it isn’t worth it without already investing in 2 other atributes or having a huge ton of on crit effects (and even then you should get more pwoer to compensate the investment).
So no, I don’t realize how dumb sounds what I said. To be fair with your comment not everyone knows this as not everyone has stopped to do the maths and when they see their critical percentage rising they think it’s cool. And as I said it doesn’t mean that once combined with Power it isn’t viable, you see Berserkers everywhere, but on its own if you have to take one, Power or Precission ALWAYS go for Power.
(edited by Lokheit.7943)
Venom builds suck because the amount of damage you, yourself lose is not even close to what you would add to the parties over damage. If only this game had damage meters…
The PvE meta is all about doing content as fast as possible, since no one ever really dies or needs support. Really go ahead right now and ask yourself whens the last time you thought “We might not be able to finish this dungeon due to our group composition / specs”, you can beat a lvl 50 fractal with 5 bunker guardians or 5 zerker thiefs…
As long as there is no challenging content or a dps meter it wont matter if you spec 0-0-0-0-0. You CAN do venom share but we all know its not as optimal as a pure power damage build.
Lokheit
>Precision is a garbage atribute to get Direct Damage, really, absolutely terrible on its ownyou realize how dumb that sounds?
Depends on who you play with. I PUG a lot (Please, hold your derision back for just a moment) and I can say added support can make things a whole lot smoother. I’d rather just help people a little than depend on them dodging perfectly.
I agree that at high-end PvE (higher skill?) pure damage is probably the way to go right now, but venom builds shouldn’t be thrown out of the game just because they aren’t the maximum damage path.
Also, point for point, precision is pretty much always worse than power if you want direct damage. It’s only a good choice for more damage if you already have a lot of power and prowess (bonus crit damage) or otherwise can’t choose power / prowess instead of precision.
Edit: Lokheit pretty much covered it. Berserker is still good, but if you have to choose between precision and power and you want more damage, always pick power. (There is a limiting case, but it’s something like if you have 1500 bonus power and 60% bonus crit damage, take precision over power.)
Mixing insults with your post is like pooping in a salad.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
It’s pretty obvious, and nobody’s impressed.
(edited by Softspoken.2410)
Venom builds suck because the amount of damage you, yourself lose is not even close to what you would add to the parties over damage. If only this game had damage meters…
The PvE meta is all about doing content as fast as possible, since no one ever really dies or needs support. Really go ahead right now and ask yourself whens the last time you thought “We might not be able to finish this dungeon due to our group composition / specs”, you can beat a lvl 50 fractal with 5 bunker guardians or 5 zerker thiefs…
As long as there is no challenging content or a dps meter it wont matter if you spec 0-0-0-0-0. You CAN do venom share but we all know its not as optimal as a pure power damage build.
Lokheit
>Precision is a garbage atribute to get Direct Damage, really, absolutely terrible on its ownyou realize how dumb that sounds?
Actually, it is a matter on how you want to deal the damage.
To be honest, if you do the math, the damage output of heavy zerker build and zerker thief with venom share is pretty much the same.
The damage you lose by not having those 30% critical damage and 20% of executioner are spread between condition damage and venom damage (which is also dealt by your teammates).
The fact that you don’t see numbers as high as you’re running full berserker does not mean the damage isn’t there.
V
Lokheit
>Precision is a garbage atribute to get Direct Damage, really, absolutely terrible on its ownyou realize how dumb that sounds?
Dumb? Ok this is something I’ve said before and it’s real:
You know that if you do the maths to distribute 1000 atribute points between power and precission and derivate to get the maximum damage scenario, the result is that in adition to giving all the 1000 points to Power, you should substract Precission from your initial 916 (something that you can’t really do, of course, but it’s the MAX scenario) and give them to Power, resulting in a very small percentage of anti-crits (strikes that heal your targer) to get the MAX possible damage on the distribution?
That’s how garbage Precission is to get damage on its own, to the point that substracting from it so some of your hits heal your target still gives you more damage than investing on it and not in Power. If you have to chose between one of them (Rabid versus Carrion), Power curbstomps it.
Precission is only useful when you already have as much power as you can get, and also tons of Critical Damage (meaning wasting 3 atribute lines).
Even when you have the maximum Critical Damage you can get, Power is still muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better than Precission to get direct damage.
Of course it increases your damage and if you’re in rush mode and won’t receive too much damage you can do it to get peak damage and that’s what most people do to rush things, but Precission by itself is PURE GARBAGE compared with Power. Mathematically it isn’t worth it without already investing in 2 other atributes or having a huge ton of on crit effects (and even then you should get more pwoer to compensate the investment).
So no, I don’t realize how dumb sounds what I said. To be fair with your comment not everyone knows this as not everyone has stopped to do the maths and when they see their critical percentage rising they think it’s cool. And as I said it doesn’t mean that once combined with Power it isn’t viable, you see Berserkers everywhere, but on its own if you have to take one, Power or Precission ALWAYS go for Power.
you realize there is no Power-Power-Power gear right? Ofcourse power is great but after power you have a choice between precision/crit dmg/ and condi damage for offensive stats. Guess which 2 are better?
and again I’m not bored enough yet to actually do the math on venom share but there’s no in hell its even close to 25-30-x-x-x.
25 in the 1st tree gives a permanent 10% damage increase and 30 in the 2nd gives 20% after 50% hp (again 10% more damage). Not to mention the increased dps from the passive Power and crit/dmg + the talents like +5% dagger damage (250 power is around 13-15% increased damage across the board alone). And of course that tree has TOUGHNESS which is something you want nothing to do with since it effects agrro, something you will have unless there’s a full zerker 100 blade spammer in the group. If you do want to do the math please do or at least get it started and we can all finish it together.
I guess I could start on it later just post the build you use for venom share and ill work off that vs a 25-30-0-15-0 build that I use (yes I realize that 25-30-0-0-15 is more "zerker but all you gain is 3 initial inititiave and 2.8% more crit for your party (fury every 40 seconds or so for 10 seconds when you steal) or like what +8 more power for your party from might it adds?
(edited by Zepidel.5349)
If you actually read my comment, I already say that it’s useful to get peak damage in Zerker gear, so I think I realize there is no Power-Power-Power gear.
I said, and you quoted it, that Precission by itself is pure garbage (and it is, it needs you to use 2 extra atribute lines to be of any significant use and even then it doesn’t even add that much). You said my statement was dumb and I proven you wrong on that.
Of course if you’re going to peak damage (something I already say…) it will factor, but my statement reamains true: Don’t use Precission in a thief condition build as it is pure garbage and Power adds much more in its place. My comment was in response to you asking for venoms to work on crits, and I said no thanks, don’t throw precission in condition builds because it’s garbage.
Condition builds get the damage they don’t get from critting through conditions, and they also offer a free atribute line as you don’t need all 3 lines. They may require a bit more time to settle the damage and for rushing content Zerker is the fan favorite, but they’re just right and bringing support builds to a party actually helps a lot.
Anyway back to the main topic, the point remains that the Thief actually has a very good share of utilities to work for the party in PvE, there aren’t “3 utilities and that’s all”, there is actually a very good range of skills you can pick in very different builds and be very competitive in PvE. If you like your signet build that’s cool, and of course there are utilities better for each job and role, but the Thief still has other options.
(edited by Lokheit.7943)
I think it might be better to say that many thief utilities, in comparison to utilites from other classes, just aren’t very good. Traps aren’t very good (Ambush is so-so, Shadow Trakitten ituationally useful, the rest suck kitten. Venoms are kitten weak unless you invest all your points into them., in which case they become passable but not exceptional.
This leaves half (or slightly less) of the thief’s skills which are useful without heavily investing into them.
Think stacking and skipping trash is cheap?
Read: Playing to Win.
Guide: How to play a Mesmer in dungeons.
Read: Playing to Win.
Guide: How to play a Mesmer in dungeons.
(edited by TheKillerAngel.3596)
If you’re just looking for pure dps (cof runs I’m assuming you’re talking about), grab assassin, agility, and ambush trap. When you have ambush trap + guild, your dps will be so disgustingly high that most bosses will melt before any of your summons have the chance to die. You and your summons will make you count for about 2.2 full zerk people.
Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid
you realize there is no Power-Power-Power gear right? Ofcourse power is great but after power you have a choice between precision/crit dmg/ and condi damage for offensive stats. Guess which 2 are better?
and again I’m not bored enough yet to actually do the math on venom share but there’s no in hell its even close to 25-30-x-x-x.
25 in the 1st tree gives a permanent 10% damage increase and 30 in the 2nd gives 20% after 50% hp (again 10% more damage). Not to mention the increased dps from the passive Power and crit/dmg + the talents like +5% dagger damage (250 power is around 13-15% increased damage across the board alone). And of course that tree has TOUGHNESS which is something you want nothing to do with since it effects agrro, something you will have unless there’s a full zerker 100 blade spammer in the group. If you do want to do the math please do or at least get it started and we can all finish it together.
I guess I could start on it later just post the build you use for venom share and ill work off that vs a 25-30-0-15-0 build that I use (yes I realize that 25-30-0-0-15 is more "zerker but all you gain is 3 initial inititiave and 2.8% more crit for your party (fury every 40 seconds or so for 10 seconds when you steal) or like what +8 more power for your party from might it adds?
Venom Share build is usually 30/0/30/0/10.
The only thing you’re giving up to is the 20% damage boost form executioner and 30% critical damage which is easily compensated by the higher might stacking capability (might on stealth + might on venom + might & fury on steal), plus the higher damage venom shares give. Plus you get healing capabilities and conditions.
Also, if you run a build with Might duration runes, your venoms will work just like HGH engies might stacks (20s), except that you have more Venoms and on a shorter recharge.
Plus you have toughness.
Just try it out.
Venom Share build is usually 30/0/30/0/10.
The only thing you’re giving up to is the 20% damage boost form executioner and 30% critical damage which is easily compensated by the higher might stacking capability (might on stealth + might on venom + might & fury on steal), plus the higher damage venom shares give. Plus you get healing capabilities and conditions.Also, if you run a build with Might duration runes, your venoms will work just like HGH engies might stacks (20s), except that you have more Venoms and on a shorter recharge.
Plus you have toughness.Just try it out.
Also losing 5% crit chance when hp is high, 300 precision, ini on crit, 10% damage when ini is over 6, and w/e you chose for the other 2 traits on top of everything else you said. So to spec into venom share, you’re losing over 40% overall dps to share some junk venoms, that are weak conditions in a pure damage game, and get a few might stacks that probably won’t stack since that guardian + mesmer or you + fire field + mesmer or w/e already stacked 25 might. If you’re constantly dpsing (like you should be), you’ll only be able to maintain 4 stacks of might from might on stealth. The only time you’ll have more is if you’re sitting invis, not attacking.
Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid
Also losing 5% crit chance when hp is high, 300 precision, ini on crit, 10% damage when ini is over 6, and w/e you chose for the other 2 traits on top of everything else you said. So to spec into venom share, you’re losing over 40% overall dps to share some junk venoms, that are weak conditions in a pure damage game, and get a few might stacks that probably won’t stack since that guardian + mesmer or you + fire field + mesmer or w/e already stacked 25 might. If you’re constantly dpsing (like you should be), you’ll only be able to maintain 4 stacks of might from might on stealth. The only time you’ll have more is if you’re sitting invis, not attacking.
To which build we are comparing it to?
Because if we are comparing it to 25/30/0/15/0 build, you are gaining also a great amount of survivability running venom share.
You’re not sharing conditions only, you’re sharing steal health effect, which matters way more than conditions and might sharing.
With venom sharing and 20% might duration runes, you can mantain 14+ might stacks easily.
To which build we are comparing it to?
Because if we are comparing it to 25/30/0/15/0 build, you are gaining also a great amount of survivability running venom share.You’re not sharing conditions only, you’re sharing steal health effect, which matters way more than conditions and might sharing.
With venom sharing and 20% might duration runes, you can mantain 14+ might stacks easily.
Why would you use might duration runes? Just feels like wasted rune slots. Ruby orbs or Scholar runes all the way for higher crit dmg, more power, and that sexy 10% damage boost. This is a PvE topic after all so it’s not like you’ll be getting hit all that often. I don’t know why you even brought up survivability. As long as you can survive 1 big attack, you don’t need any more tankyness.
I was also comparing it to my build that’s 25-30-10-0-5 for infinite cnd backstab chains and burst ini on steal. That build also allows for, imo, significantly better support options like smoke screen, shadow refuge, and/or signet of agility. It also allows for super easy stealth stacking when running through trash. Better than 15 in acro imo (except when fighting Lupi only, there 15 acro is better).
Fury really isn’t a big deal either. I have fury when target hits 50%. By the time 1 fgj wears off (every group has a warrior right now… there’s too many of them), SOMETHING will be bellow 50% to trigger the trait. By the time that wears off, fgj will be back up. If w/e needs to die isn’t dead by then then you problem isn’t a lack of fury. The only bosses in the game that usually won’t be dead by then are Lupi and grawl shaman… and most of the fractal bosses when you are doing 40+. On those bosses the venom sharing and totc would be nice to have but I’d still prefer a smoke screen to stop the crazy amount of projectiles that plague fotm and signet of agility that cures a condition for everyone and refils my end. I’d also prefer ally thieves to be using a more dps oriented build since they really are losing out on a lot just for the venoms and the desire to go support. If the pve content was more comprehensive and challenging, then maybe venom share would be better, but it’s pretty useless now.
Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid
Why would you use might duration runes? Just feels like wasted rune slots. Ruby orbs or Scholar runes all the way for higher crit dmg, more power, and that sexy 10% damage boost. This is a PvE topic after all so it’s not like you’ll be getting hit all that often. I don’t know why you even brought up survivability. As long as you can survive 1 big attack, you don’t need any more tankyness.
I was also comparing it to my build that’s 25-30-10-0-5 for infinite cnd backstab chains and burst ini on steal. That build also allows for, imo, significantly better support options like smoke screen, shadow refuge, and/or signet of agility. It also allows for super easy stealth stacking when running through trash. Better than 15 in acro imo (except when fighting Lupi only, there 15 acro is better).
Fury really isn’t a big deal either. I have fury when target hits 50%. By the time 1 fgj wears off (every group has a warrior right now… there’s too many of them), SOMETHING will be bellow 50% to trigger the trait. By the time that wears off, fgj will be back up. If w/e needs to die isn’t dead by then then you problem isn’t a lack of fury. The only bosses in the game that usually won’t be dead by then are Lupi and grawl shaman… and most of the fractal bosses when you are doing 40+. On those bosses the venom sharing and totc would be nice to have but I’d still prefer a smoke screen to stop the crazy amount of projectiles that plague fotm and signet of agility that cures a condition for everyone and refils my end. I’d also prefer ally thieves to be using a more dps oriented build since they really are losing out on a lot just for the venoms and the desire to go support. If the pve content was more comprehensive and challenging, then maybe venom share would be better, but it’s pretty useless now.
Might duration runes are because they raise the might duration from 20s to about 36s, which is huge. Also, it increases the might stacking duration from combo-finishing too.
Keep in mind that you don’t need to always run 4 venoms. 3 venoms are enough, 2 also if you need other utilities. All you want to make sure is to bring Spider Venom because it triggers 6 times healing affected allies (and you) for 2400hp.
This is a support build, obviously. It isn’t supposed to deal the same damage of a burst build, since it boost the damage output of you whole team. But, despite the fact it doesn’t deal the same damage of a full zerker thief, the damage output is still pretty sweet.
Makes sense, just isn’t for my playstyle
Check out my page for some good thiefisms :)
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid
http://www.youtube.com/user/randomfightfan/videos?view=0&flow=grid
On those bosses the venom sharing and totc would be nice to have but I’d still prefer a smoke screen to stop the crazy amount of projectiles that plague fotm and signet of agility that cures a condition for everyone and refils my end.
When you say it like that it sounds like this signet only refils your endurance^^
The total endurence of your team is refilled, in 99/100 times no one will even notice that but if you have 2 thieves vs lupi it is a huge advantage cause you don’t really need 15 points in acro anymore
I agree with RandomFightFan venomshare is crap compared to other builds
[rT]
(edited by Anubarak.3012)