Guild Wars 2

http://www.twitch.tv/saetiasc/c/1827679

Watch it and cry. You can figtht with 10+ ppl and you don’t go in stealth even once. ;D

Yea, but thieves can stealth, so let’s nerf them first.

i will make a D/D ele

Elems will explain it with easy: "coz we need to press more than 2 buttons our OPness is OK."

http://i.qkme.me/363wow.jpg

SilverWF.4789:

Elems will explain it with easy: “coz we need to press more than 2 buttons our OPness is OK.”

It’s true as my d/d elementalist I can easy win any 1vs1 just by changing elements and pressing randoms buttons from 1-5. With such a “skill” i have perma all boons, non-stop healing, high aeo dmg(even hide thief won’t run), tons of dodges, ultra condi remove, spaming with condi as chill, cripple and stunes. And what is the best in it? I have no idea from where is all thats stuff come from coz i even didnt have to read my skills! xD

Sylvar.8512:

http://www.twitch.tv/saetiasc/c/1827679

Watch it and cry. You can figtht with 10+ ppl and you don’t go in stealth even once. ;D

You can do it on a thief or a mesmer as well.

Also.

Whenever you see a outnumbered vs X video, watch for the outnumbered guy killing others of the same class. In this particular video they kill a lot of elementalists, hence just them being amazingly good, not anything about them being OP.

I’m changing my zerg for a d/d ele.

Ugh, that video made me cringe because no one should be allowed such free movement when outnumbered. CC, Stun, Interrupt, whatever you can. As a thief, I have yet to find a D/D ele I couldn’t handle. I may not get the kill all the time, but that’s fine. Once they run away, that’s a win for me.

Almost all elementalists have a particular rotation. Once you interrupt or daze them, they get thrown off of their rhythm. As a thief, we have so many ways to immobilize/stun, it’s not even funny.

Suralin.3947:

As a thief, we have so many ways to immobilize/stun, it’s not even funny.

So many ways. Like, 4 skills and including one stolen item you cannot get from real players!

We got, one 1s immobilize with sword 2, one 2s immobilize with that venom. As for stuns and the like, there’s a 1.5s stun with Basilisk Venom, our elite and the pull effect from Scorpion Wire.

Ah, I forgot : the shortbow sneak attack fires a slow arrow that immobilizes when it somehow doesn’t miss the moving target.

Most classes with a single skill can immobilize someone longer than we can chaining all our skills that do the same together :p

The only redeeming thing I see about our “CC” is that we can instant cast a 900 range (1200 if traited for but that’s uncommon) immobilize with Mug + Steal + Venom. It only takes us our F1 skill, one utility and one trait. But it’s powerful alright.

I liked the part where the thief was spamming Heartseeker for like the first 5 minutes.

Also, when the Elementalist literally just walked away from said thief.

That said, Ele’s are really quite tanky, and when there’s 2 of them constantly splitting up a small underskilled zerg? It’s pretty strong (2x Fire fields/blast finishers for more might when close, 2x Water #2 and #5 for extra healing and condi removal for example)

stof.9341:

one 2s immobilize with that venom.

Which stacks with itself (2 procs minimum) to get up to 4 second immobilize, can be traited to have 3 stacks (6 second immobilize) and can also be traited to share to other players (Up to 6 seconds immobilize per player)

As for stuns and the like, there’s a 1.5s stun with Basilisk Venom, our elite and the pull effect from Scorpion Wire.

There’s also Tripwire, which may not be useful in most builds but if you can leverage it is a 3 second knockdown. (Needle trap is also another 3 second immobilize, but that trap is pretty bad to be honest)

Most classes with a single skill can immobilize someone longer than we can chaining all our skills that do the same together :p

When traited, a thief can chain: 3 seconds (Needle Trap) + 6 seconds (Devourer Venom) + 1 second (Infiltrator’s Strike – Also can be spammed, sort of) giving a total of 10 seconds with no duration increase (They’d be at least 30% if getting the extra venom procs)

I don’t think Devourer stacks like that in duration. I really don’t see it as such. The wiki confirms it on the “Immobilize” page : "Opposite to what it says in condition’s description it does NOT stack duration. "

Pausing your attacks to maximize chaining Devourer charges would result in you basically doing nothing for a long amount of time.

i think that d/d thief in the video is OP !!!

A video on a Thief forum? That must be Thief, lets call police(Anet) quick!!!

stof is correct, venoms stack UP TO the duration that is listed on their tooltip, not per application..

also, those traps are all garbage through and through.

Traps are garbage. Immobilize with devourer venom does not stack duration. Spamming infiltrators striks means dealing no damage and burning down initiative pretty fast. Basilisk venom (elite skill) can be countered by a regular stun breaker, so not that powerful. Daze with sword from stealth, but really low damage, so not all that powerful too, only in group fights with another damage dealer.

And yeah, they say thief is op because we can stealth.

Is this a showcase of skill nowdays ? WvW footage shouldn’t be taken seriously , this build is weak in competitive spvp. Can’t add anything else sorry.

offence.4726:

Is this a showcase of skill nowdays ? WvW footage shouldn’t be taken seriously , this build is weak in competitive spvp. Can’t add anything else sorry.

Spvp has differend rules than wvw, in case you didn’t know.
For example:

Healing from Cleansing Wave is reduced by 50% in PvP.

offence.4726:

Is this a showcase of skill nowdays ? WvW footage shouldn’t be taken seriously , this build is weak in competitive spvp. Can’t add anything else sorry.

Welcome to the thief forums where the class is nerfed due to WvW whines. Please enjoy you’re stay

1st: WTF?? Why so much keys noise? It sounds more than the skills he’s pressing and it sounds very low (like if he was typing in a conversation while angry instead of using skills).

2nd: I honestly think Eles should have a shared cooldown on their attunements (you change attunement, you can’t change again in X seconds, and I mean a long one, not their current version that doesn’t affect gameplay at all even if you use just 1 powerful skill on each set). As it’s now, they have a lot of great skills to use and when the rotation ends they’re available again, this is what makes D/D so OP. Even with a shared cooldown their mechanic is still far superior to traditional Weapon Swap as you have double the weapon skills of everyone else. I know many Eles would scream at me for sugesting something like this, but as it’s now it’s TOO good and the “we have to press more keys” isn’t an argument.

7k/10s regen, chain stun, 3 cantrips and a pet.
NO eles aren’t OP. we all just need to l2p

Brassnautilus.2941:

7k/10s regen, chain stun, 3 cantrips and a pet.
NO eles aren’t OP. we all just need to l2p

The people in the video do in fact need to l2p. You will notice that he slaughtered numerous other DD eles in the video.

What’s the point of linking a video of two really good players taking on 18 guys? One could just as easily link a video of lolthief:

And claim they’re OP. Nope. That’s not skill there, that’s the class being OP. Yup. Two instant accesses to stealth + blind, double stunbreaker and condition cleanser in one utility. Oh, and stability + projectile reflect with no aoe limit as an elite. 17k HP 2.6k armor and rolling out 6-7k backstabs with ease. Yup, not OP at all.

…

But then, you might notice, he also kills a ton of thieves, so one might start to wonder “hmmm maybe this guy is good, and it’s not the thief class that’s OP” just like you should consider “maybe these guys are really good and it’s not the ele class that is OP. Oh, and their opponents were inexperienced and upleveled judging from the lack of focus and CC use”.

I’ve noticed that from thieves being called OP a lot of you guys have defensively started to look at other classes and call them OP. You’re no better than those who whine of thieves being overpowered without bothering to do their research now.

Yes, that ele has ~4500 healing power.

I’m not say eles are OP and Yes that video make that 1 dude look OP but tbh that wouldn’t fly for vary log in a group of good players or if there was 1 or 2 good players there. Most the time no one was focusing him and when they did he ran and they stopped pressuring him. Over all hes obviously a good player but I don’t think this constitutes Eles as OP.

IMO much like the thief “over powered” is based off the skill of the player not the class. I rarely die in open field 1v1s but this one ranger beat me, the whole class must be OP and needs a nerf!

Anyways the video is impressive! Nice Job to him/her.

Teamkiller.4315:

But then, you might notice, he also kills a ton of thieves

kill tons of what what?
No ele can kill this thief, period.
I can’t kill a good d/d ele either, too much regen and escapes,

better players knew it would turn into a draw, aka. waste of my mother kitten time.
If they didn’t leave me the kitten alone, make a mistake and they will get more than bargained for.

problem is, that’s still OP. No one is supposed to hang forever against a dps class. Draws are bs, especially with so little efforts.

and please, stop using these noob pwning videos as basis for evaluation. wvw is nothing more than pve+

kill tons of what what?
No ele can kill this thief, period.
I can’t kill a good d/d ele either, too much regen and escapes,

What? What confusion is there about what I just said? I said he kills a ton of thieves in that video. No one ever said anything about an ele killing him.

And, I vehemently disagree, you clearly have not seen the glass s/d arcane burst build that can one-shot people in less than a second.

problem is, that’s still OP. No one is supposed to hang forever against a dps class. Draws are bs, especially with so little efforts.

what?

Let me ask you a quick question. You just said “No ele can kill this thief period”. You now complain that you can’t kill good D/D eles and somehow they’re the ones that are OP?

What?

What??!?

and please, stop using these noob pwning videos as basis for evaluation. wvw is nothing more than pve+

Hypocrisy much? You seem to have misunderstood the point of the video.

OP posts wvw video of two eles lasting 20 minutes against 15+ players, getting tons of kills in the process. He claims eles are OP

I post wvw video of thief winning multiple 1vX’s. I pretend to claim same logic to illustrate his error in reasoning.

You are so biased towards thieves it isn’t even funny. notice how I’ve never even called thieves OP, not once, and yet you’re throwing accusations everywhere.

Yishi’s videos, Wild Bill’s, Excalas, and the video shown in the OP are prefect examples of the horrible level of skill people have in this game. Everyone in those videos they are playing against are simply put, pure trash. I don’t mean to be harsh, but when people are using it as an example to get things changed in game, we should be paying attention to it.

Any decently skilled person with a balanced build can 1v3. I do it myself and come out on top all the time. The problem is playing two guys who know what they are doing. Then the tide changes. Being in Tier 1 I see ALOT of these film makers in WvW. They aren’t as good as they are portrayed to be. I’ve even killed some myself.

^^
he just explained to you teamkiller
When we say OP, it meant a build or a class, and how bads do against good players aren’t good basis for evaluation.
the OPness of ele is in its survivability anyway.

Brassnautilus.2941:

^^
he just explained to you teamkiller
When we say OP, it meant a build or a class, and how bads do against good players aren’t good basis for evaluation.
the OPness of ele is in its survivability anyway.

No, he (I don’t know if he meant to or not) explained to OP.

I never used a video as evaluation of a class being OP or not. I used Yishis’ videos of winning 1vX’s as an example of why he SHOULDN’T use those eles’ videos of killing all those people to claim they are OP. Because then we would have justification to say that thieves are OP. In fact, we’d have justification to say EVERY class is OP because there are videos like that of EVERY class winning 1vX roaming battles. Warrior? Mesmer? Engineer? Guardian? Thief? Ele? Necro? Ranger? Ok, so maybe not ranger, but you get the point.

You should be criticizing the OP, but you are criticizing me, despite us having the same opinion, because you feel I’m attacking your class. The bias shows.

It’s WvWvW, who cares…

Wow, it’s so obvious that the people he was fighting really, really suck. Even one backstab thief could have taken him/her down, just wait for her to switch out of water then burst.

Asomal.6453:

It’s WvWvW, who cares…

The people on this board care because thieves get nerfed because of WvW.

So we’re going on a nerf all other actually OPd WvW classes campaign.

Every time the Ele went to stomp someone, they just sat still and took it like an idiot.
Enough said.

I actually had to keep checking for Stability as the only rational explanation, but I never saw it.

Well… if you people consider that one video of your class destroying people means nothing about being overpowered, which I hear often, then one video of a certain class stomping you shouldn’t mean anything aswell.

Asomal.6453:

http://i.qkme.me/363wow.jpg

Pretty much this.

Teamkiller.4315:

Brassnautilus.2941:

7k/10s regen, chain stun, 3 cantrips and a pet.
NO eles aren’t OP. we all just need to l2p

The people in the video do in fact need to l2p. You will notice that he slaughtered numerous other DD eles in the video.

What’s the point of linking a video of two really good players taking on 18 guys? One could just as easily link a video of lolthief:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

And claim they’re OP. Nope. That’s not skill there, that’s the class being OP. Yup. Two instant accesses to stealth + blind, double stunbreaker and condition cleanser in one utility. Oh, and stability + projectile reflect with no aoe limit as an elite. 17k HP 2.6k armor and rolling out 6-7k backstabs with ease. Yup, not OP at all.

…

But then, you might notice, he also kills a ton of thieves, so one might start to wonder “hmmm maybe this guy is good, and it’s not the thief class that’s OP” just like you should consider “maybe these guys are really good and it’s not the ele class that is OP. Oh, and their opponents were inexperienced and upleveled judging from the lack of focus and CC use”.

I’ve noticed that from thieves being called OP a lot of you guys have defensively started to look at other classes and call them OP. You’re no better than those who whine of thieves being overpowered without bothering to do their research now.

Funny, because the build yishis plays in that video has been nerfed… lets guess why?

kittenzlenit.7648:

Teamkiller.4315:

Brassnautilus.2941:

7k/10s regen, chain stun, 3 cantrips and a pet.
NO eles aren’t OP. we all just need to l2p

The people in the video do in fact need to l2p. You will notice that he slaughtered numerous other DD eles in the video.

What’s the point of linking a video of two really good players taking on 18 guys? One could just as easily link a video of lolthief:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

And claim they’re OP. Nope. That’s not skill there, that’s the class being OP. Yup. Two instant accesses to stealth + blind, double stunbreaker and condition cleanser in one utility. Oh, and stability + projectile reflect with no aoe limit as an elite. 17k HP 2.6k armor and rolling out 6-7k backstabs with ease. Yup, not OP at all.

…

But then, you might notice, he also kills a ton of thieves, so one might start to wonder “hmmm maybe this guy is good, and it’s not the thief class that’s OP” just like you should consider “maybe these guys are really good and it’s not the ele class that is OP. Oh, and their opponents were inexperienced and upleveled judging from the lack of focus and CC use”.

I’ve noticed that from thieves being called OP a lot of you guys have defensively started to look at other classes and call them OP. You’re no better than those who whine of thieves being overpowered without bothering to do their research now.

Funny, because the build yishis plays in that video has been nerfed… lets guess why?

And to add, Yishis knows he can’t be seen or else he’ll get rolfstomped hard. Yet D/D Ele’s can take so much punishment and be seen and targeted by everyone at the same time. She rarely even used her actual heal skill.

Jinks.2057:

offence.4726:

Is this a showcase of skill nowdays ? WvW footage shouldn’t be taken seriously , this build is weak in competitive spvp. Can’t add anything else sorry.

Welcome to the thief forums where the class is nerfed due to WvW whines. Please enjoy you’re stay

They can do whatever.. Im maining thief from the beta in paid tournaments and wvw.
Yes the whines from WvW mainly got us into this sweet situation, nonetheless I keep on truckin’ and rollin’ through everyone just like day 1. Enjoy your stay too I guess

@Master of Timespace yes everyone should know that , the problem is the ele is getting a special treatment as a “special” little pet class they are ( why not apply it in wvw too not just in spvp ? ). While thiefs get screwed everytime. It gets tiresome.

Teamkiller.4315:

Brassnautilus.2941:

7k/10s regen, chain stun, 3 cantrips and a pet.
NO eles aren’t OP. we all just need to l2p

The people in the video do in fact need to l2p. You will notice that he slaughtered numerous other DD eles in the video.

What’s the point of linking a video of two really good players taking on 18 guys? One could just as easily link a video of lolthief:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACOxV5CA52w

And claim they’re OP. Nope. That’s not skill there, that’s the class being OP. Yup. Two instant accesses to stealth + blind, double stunbreaker and condition cleanser in one utility. Oh, and stability + projectile reflect with no aoe limit as an elite. 17k HP 2.6k armor and rolling out 6-7k backstabs with ease. Yup, not OP at all.

…

But then, you might notice, he also kills a ton of thieves, so one might start to wonder “hmmm maybe this guy is good, and it’s not the thief class that’s OP” just like you should consider “maybe these guys are really good and it’s not the ele class that is OP. Oh, and their opponents were inexperienced and upleveled judging from the lack of focus and CC use”.

I’ve noticed that from thieves being called OP a lot of you guys have defensively started to look at other classes and call them OP. You’re no better than those who whine of thieves being overpowered without bothering to do their research now.

You do know in his latest video he states it’ll be his last due to this patch right?

While eles are still just as OPd as before…..

the difference…
Ele have a strong weapon (staff) they get nerfed to the ground ….
Ele players adapt go bunker/support…..it get again nerfed to the ground.

Players adapt and change weapon.
D/D get nerfed with increased 33% CD on their best skill (from 15 to 20 sec) AND their swiftness/regen/healing reduced…(ele instead change weapons again)

Thieves players doesn t even notice and open mirror flaming threads on 2 forums showing the worst players ever seen not able to kill an ele without any stability spell.

Thief get 1 second more reveled buff so they have a taste of what other classes have to do….

The world collapses…..

The same double standards as Always…..in the meantime www seen 2 of the most OP builds ever (i won t tell wich professions…..not ele nor thief) you can see in 90% vids and situation online and players ignore them because they are not talked on forums to prevent usual complaining…..

my opinion obviously……

Also remember to look in ANY forum for 1VS6 of ANY profession…..even ranger.
Or just try to do the same with your thief…spec for stealth evasiveness as Always but add PVT gear……

You don t want to? i wonder why……because thief can still 1VSX without needing to sacrifice DMG output maybe….

Ok, now serious… 3 simple things to balance elementalist and do they much more dependable on skill (not on Tekken’s Eddy gamplay):

-All attuments have 8s global cooldown
-Ride on Lightining skill should has less range
-Signet should only heal when you land a hit (like signet of Malice in Thief)

Those changes would be best thing to bring balance to this class and none of you will change my opinion at this subject.

Well I think they should look at Evasive Arcana in water. The fact it allows elementalists to use every 10s a spell that usually has 40s cooldown and 0.75s cast time should probably be considered OP. Especially when that spell is an AoE heal of good power combined with a condition removal effect.

LordByron.8369:

Also remember to look in ANY forum for 1VS6 of ANY profession…..even ranger.
Or just try to do the same with your thief…spec for stealth evasiveness as Always but add PVT gear……

You don t want to? i wonder why……because thief can still 1VSX without needing to sacrifice DMG output maybe….

Well, Thief can, Mesmer kinda can, D/D Eles could, if not threatened to screw up every second. Boon duration HGH*409 P/P Engineers kind of can, but the build is fairly overpowered. But yes, 850 boring and predictable super-ownage 1vX videos on the Thief section, during this time, the other classes feel epic when dealing with a 1v2, I admit that the few times I play my Thief I rarely feel threatened compared to when I roam with the Engineer.

I don’t see how a GC thief can 1vX at all. You cannot down anything. The moment you stop to finish someone, you are dead. If you don’t, they easily get healed back into the fight.

I wouldn’t exactly say “without sacrificing DMG output”. Sure, with a Valkyrie armor and good gameplay one can definitely go into 1vX as long as the enemies are not experienced sPvP players with the thief, but with a Zerker armor I assure you the second lvl 80 warrior in sight will make you slice you into tini-tiny little pieces. 50% haste + knock down+100b is still dangerous for us. With a Valkyrie armor or some other defensive set you sacrifice out-of-stealth crit rate and thus DPS, but mistakes or being outplayed becomes less punishing. It’s just so kitten easy for nearly any class to destroy someone with 12k hp and no bonus thoughness, when compared to someone with PVT armor and -33% damage from protection.

So, sure, you can beat even 10 bad players, but even if there is only one good between them that knows how to handle you, the damage from him and the others will screw you. Though for D/D eles the skill graph isn’t this extreme since there is a lack of boon removals in the game, especially when compared to the amount of boons.

So in the end, I’d say D/D eles have a more stable 1vX experience, while thieves are either godlike or “food” in these situations.

I usually roam around with thief, and usually I just either kill everything without being threatened, or just pulled out from SR, stunned and, bursted down. If I have Shadow Step up, good for me, otherwise I just die.

Kanadaj.8510:

….

enough with the elementalist urban legends…..

ELE cannot kill any skilled tank in 1VS1

ELE can die from mostly any guardian/condition mesmer unless he runs away
ELE has only ONE 90 cd stability spell
If ele cleanse condition he cannot heal….reliably
ELE damage is risible unless at 25 might…..(that requires combos too long for PvP).

So NO a single DECENT player in 1VSX be it a thief a necro or a ranger can force ele to TRY to run away.

I could reply to baseless complaints but i prefer to say:
Do you think your class is being nerfed due to baseless complaints?

If so think that IF your companions are possibly first and more dedicated to this behavior….
So think about what will happen if everybody does this……

Or instead stop screaming OP and start posting coherent analysis on skills and numbers with the intent of making thegame better….and not a meaningless vid of a player trolling newbies (where actually thieves are best at….and not eles)

P.S. if this post seems harsh is maybe due to the fact eng is not my 1st Language…its not my purpose.

Kanadaj.8510:

With a Valkyrie armor or some other defensive set you sacrifice out-of-stealth crit rate and thus DPS, but mistakes or being outplayed becomes less punishing. It’s just so kitten easy for nearly any class to destroy someone with 12k hp and no bonus thoughness, when compared to someone with PVT armor and -33% damage from protection.

I wont call valkyrie armor a defensive set. With 2/3 offensive stats its clearly an offensive armor set.

The difference is due to stealth thieves have to opportunity to totally ignore toughness because you can dish out massive single target burst damage in like no time.
Other professions have to rely on toughness and vitality, so they dont implode on spike damage.

Take a look at this D/D eles build posted in the video. He massively stacks toughness to get a ~30% damage reduction. He also got 16k HP while ele being on the lowest HP pool (like thieves).

So at the end he got 22% more damage reduction than a thief running around in full valk/zerk ignoring all toughness (medium armor is ~8% more damage reduction for free compared to light armor).

Its not the boons alone which make the difference.

teg.1340:

Kanadaj.8510:

With a Valkyrie armor or some other defensive set you sacrifice out-of-stealth crit rate and thus DPS, but mistakes or being outplayed becomes less punishing. It’s just so kitten easy for nearly any class to destroy someone with 12k hp and no bonus thoughness, when compared to someone with PVT armor and -33% damage from protection.

I wont call valkyrie armor a defensive set. With 2/3 offensive stats its clearly an offensive armor set.

The difference is due to stealth thieves have to opportunity to totally ignore toughness because you can dish out massive single target burst damage in like no time.
Other professions have to rely on toughness and vitality, so they dont implode on spike damage.

Take a look at this D/D eles build posted in the video. He massively stacks toughness to get a ~30% damage reduction. He also got 16k HP while ele being on the lowest HP pool (like thieves).

So at the end he got 22% more damage reduction than a thief running around in full valk/zerk ignoring all toughness (medium armor is ~8% more damage reduction for free compared to light armor).

Its not the boons alone which make the difference.

I’ve never said that it’s only about the boons. Valkyrie is not a full defensive set, that is true, but it’s a lot more defensible thakittenerker armor, which most thieves use.

I’ve never even said that thieves are worse than eles when it comes to roflstomping noobs. I’d rather say that playing against thieves have an exponential curve – you are terribly bad against them, but there is a point where you can fight them on 50-50 basis, and over that thieves are easy to handle. Compared to this, the elementalist have a kind of linear curve – though their values are higher than for most other classes, if you are moderately better, you can beat them.

So in a situation against bad players, thieves will shine more, whereas against veterans an elementalist of the same skill level will bring more to the table (assuming that both the thief and elementalist are decent players or better) since thief mechanics are stronger but more susceptible to counter-play.

While the video was incredibly entertaining to watch, I don’t get it at all. How can there be a whole group of people that can’t keep a target up time, let alone outplay it? I’ve never played WvW myself, but in sPvP, even if you’re 1v3 with a bunch of level 1s, it’s pretty much impossible to win. If the gear/food buffs give players THAT much of an advantage in WvW, I fail to understand its appeal.

Rome.3192:

While the video was incredibly entertaining to watch, I don’t get it at all. How can there be a whole group of people that can’t keep a target up time, let alone outplay it? I’ve never played WvW myself, but in sPvP, even if you’re 1v3 with a bunch of level 1s, it’s pretty much impossible to win. If the gear/food buffs give players THAT much of an advantage in WvW, I fail to understand its appeal.

Don’t forget that in WvW level 1’s will still be wearing level 1 gear (It gets scaled up to level 80 but they don’t get a free set of exotics, just the stat equivalent of what they’re wearing at level 80 so whites with no stats give just a tiny bit of armour and that’s it)

So all those uplevel characters you see will be vastly weaker.

Then of course there’s the fact that WvW is the “Casual” PvP so you’ll see a lot more terrible players which coupled with the gear scaling further increases the gap between a good player in full Exotics/Ascended and a bad player in Masterwork/Rare gear.

The appeal generally comes from the mass scale fights, the ability to do small scale roaming against bigger odds (May not always win, but it tends to be a fun fight) and that not all WvW players are terrible/undergeared.