Guild Wars 2

Hey there, I see lots of you think the thief is underpowered all the time and I got tired of this. Thief is still one of the best and demanded class in entire game.
He is not though designed to be fighter anymore, ironically its presented as an assassin/dmg dealer.
People are crying everytime about it. I started to play a thief recently and i think is too strong and valueble in pvp. If you would like to get fighting potential and survivability, Anet should reduce his mobility in the meaning that thiefs will not began OP again.
During the last years, the thief are one of the well balanced class in the game.
They are not designed to fight long duration fights. Its designed to hit and run.
Well played thief is hard to kill because of his mobility. If you are complainig about your insta death in pvp, then you just suck and play him wrong.

Its like the todays Druid thing… he is good bunker its hard to kill him, but hey.. on other hand he cant kill you eiter.. Just like thief.. They are not OP, its balanced.
Moving around the map quickly can win the game.

So please stop saying that thief are dead, thiefs are so underpowered, thief cant do kittens. Thiefs are designed to hit and run with high mobility and hard to kill still.
So stick with it or play another class if you want fights where you could win.

I would like to know if any others has similar opinion about thiefs nowadays.

L2P

/15 char

OP, it sounds to me like you are just bad at the game. Go back to your OP Warrior or Guardian and learn to play noob!

nikdik.1934:

OP, it sounds to me like you are just bad at the game. Go back to your OP Warrior or Guardian and learn to play noob!

lol wut? Im not compling about it. Im saying that they are not OP not underated. Im good with him not best, but good. I just wonder why there is so much qq about him.
Your reply doesnt make any sence. Did you even read it ?

Translation:
“I’m pretending to have played thief and saying that it’s not weak so I can keep killing them effortlessly with my mesmer/warrior main and essentially make them worthless.”

Really though, stop overplaying their movement abilities. There aren’t always points to sneak cap, and even when there are ones, enemies can still come to them and give you hell. “Oh but just run away, you kittenter.” Oh yeah? That’s totally productive, especially when that’s literally the only place that I can contribute at in that moment.

nikdik.1934:

OP, it sounds to me like you are just bad at the game. Go back to your OP Warrior or Guardian and learn to play noob!

Take your brain off cruise control, you get better mileage that way.

On topic: Thieves are squishy, have average damage output and must give up one weapon slot and all attack abilities for mobility.

They’re fine though. At least one of the classes has to be ridiculously challenging.

How long have you been playing thief? /age

Did you or do you play vs bad/potato players?

From your post, I don’t really think you’re qualified to call thieves balanced, op or up.

People here have 1000’s of hours playing Thief and they’re begging for a buff here or there. You’d think that with this entire subforum asking for buffs or complaining that Thief is lacking, that something is wrong with Thieves.

Thief is still one of the best and demanded class in entire game

He is not though designed to be fighter

just lol

fumcheg.1936:

Thief is still one of the best and demanded class in entire game

He is not though designed to be fighter

just lol

Id like to draw attention to the fact that demanded by high level players does not mean enjoyable in general.

Just thought people should note that.

Play thief jst only half and year, and yes they are lacking hte fighting potential. But this is not what the class was designed for. Otherwise why would be then in almost every esport game?

Edit: is called competetive, when certain class do their job in order to win the match. Not 5v5 gather on one place and fight each other. Strategy to win the game.

Zdenny.2704:

Play thief jst only half and year, and yes they are lacking hte fighting potential. But this is not what the class was designed for. Otherwise why would be then in almost every esport game?

Its a real shame when a class has the majority of its skills designed for attacking and yet cannot capably fight, don’t you think?

Not everyone has the opportunity to be the sorely-needed empty point decapper in high level play, you know?

Edit:

Zdenny.2704:

Edit: is called competetive, when certain class do their job in order to win the match. Not 5v5 gather on one place and fight each other. Strategy to win the game.

uh huh.

I guess.

Zdenny.2704:

nikdik.1934:

OP, it sounds to me like you are just bad at the game. Go back to your OP Warrior or Guardian and learn to play noob!

lol wut? Im not compling about it. Im saying that they are not OP not underated. Im good with him not best, but good. I just wonder why there is so much qq about him.
Your reply doesnt make any sence. Did you even read it ?

We have one job. Move around fast. We are valuable because of decap and +1 ability. That’s fine, but not every thief wants to be useless in teamfights, outclassed 1v1, and just run around to empty capture points all day.

We need more options, preferably some 1v1, bruiser, and team fight builds. Daredevil helps, but only those with HoT. Also, it would help if real assassination was actually possible. There’s so much invuln and other kinds of mitigation that the backstab assassin is merely a poke to unbalance a fight you’re +1ing.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zdenny.2704:

Play thief jst only half and year, and yes they are lacking hte fighting potential. But this is not what the class was designed for. Otherwise why would be then in almost every esport game?

Its a real shame when a class has the majority of its skills designed for attacking and yet cannot capably fight, don’t you think?

Not everyone has the opportunity to be the sorely-needed empty point decapper in high level play, you know?

Yeah its irony that assassing class cant fight like normal hero. But what the devs can make even about it? It will require rebuilding thief completly and set another concept. And this is hard to change after 3 years of thief concept. Its designed this way, use it this way.

Zdenny.2704:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zdenny.2704:

Play thief jst only half and year, and yes they are lacking hte fighting potential. But this is not what the class was designed for. Otherwise why would be then in almost every esport game?

Its a real shame when a class has the majority of its skills designed for attacking and yet cannot capably fight, don’t you think?

Not everyone has the opportunity to be the sorely-needed empty point decapper in high level play, you know?

Yeah its irony that assassing class cant fight like normal hero. But what the devs can make even about it? It will require rebuilding thief completly and set another concept. And this is hard to change after 3 years of thief concept. Its designed this way, use it this way.

No.

If I wanted to sit around all day and do nothing I could do that without a video game.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zdenny.2704:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zdenny.2704:

Play thief jst only half and year, and yes they are lacking hte fighting potential. But this is not what the class was designed for. Otherwise why would be then in almost every esport game?

Its a real shame when a class has the majority of its skills designed for attacking and yet cannot capably fight, don’t you think?

Not everyone has the opportunity to be the sorely-needed empty point decapper in high level play, you know?

Yeah its irony that assassing class cant fight like normal hero. But what the devs can make even about it? It will require rebuilding thief completly and set another concept. And this is hard to change after 3 years of thief concept. Its designed this way, use it this way.

No.

If I wanted to sit around all day and do nothing I could do that without a video game.

I guess you dont get the idea of competetive games. You dont play solo, you play with a team. And in order to win you sometimes has to sacrifice something. Look at ESL, fast moving and capturing points wins the game. Its just too much valuable.
But of course if you want to play random unranked and jst brawl with somebody you might be right. And if people want kills instead of winning the game, then my oppinion is stupid.

Zdenny.2704:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zdenny.2704:

Play thief jst only half and year, and yes they are lacking hte fighting potential. But this is not what the class was designed for. Otherwise why would be then in almost every esport game?

Its a real shame when a class has the majority of its skills designed for attacking and yet cannot capably fight, don’t you think?

Not everyone has the opportunity to be the sorely-needed empty point decapper in high level play, you know?

Yeah its irony that assassing class cant fight like normal hero. But what the devs can make even about it? It will require rebuilding thief completly and set another concept. And this is hard to change after 3 years of thief concept. Its designed this way, use it this way.

Thief is designed as a highly mobile assassin. Kill it fast and move on. The problem isn’t the design and concept, it’s that every other class can lol nope our burst. That leaves us as just a mobile class. You act like Anet designed thief to deal no damage and just run around. That is simply not the case.

Zdenny.2704:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zdenny.2704:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Zdenny.2704:

Play thief jst only half and year, and yes they are lacking hte fighting potential. But this is not what the class was designed for. Otherwise why would be then in almost every esport game?

Its a real shame when a class has the majority of its skills designed for attacking and yet cannot capably fight, don’t you think?

Not everyone has the opportunity to be the sorely-needed empty point decapper in high level play, you know?

Yeah its irony that assassing class cant fight like normal hero. But what the devs can make even about it? It will require rebuilding thief completly and set another concept. And this is hard to change after 3 years of thief concept. Its designed this way, use it this way.

No.

If I wanted to sit around all day and do nothing I could do that without a video game.

I guess you dont get the idea of competetive games. You dont play solo, you play with a team. And in order to win you sometimes has to sacrifice something. Look at ESL, fast moving and capturing points wins the game. Its too much valuable.
But of course if you want to play random unranked and jst brawl with somebody you might be right. But if people want kills instead of winning the game, then my oppinion is stupid.

Or, instead, perhaps I think thieves shouldn’t only be capable of capping undefended points.

Ok but as someone that plays thief for past 2 years, I say that you are wrong we are underwhelming right now. your idea of hit and run tactics have no play in spvp only works in roaming wvw as thieves need to constantly reset a fight in order to just be able to survive in most situations. Due to specializations thieves inherently lost a lot of power and everyone got more survivabilty and control; elite specializations strengthened some of their weaknesses ie. reapers have a stability through abilities and dh has stronger range option. Thief elite spec daredevil gives you a staff and extra evade….evade which is already a core part of the game and everyone has that function already. yeah we have shadowstep but druids have a blink, mesmer has blink, ele has lightning flash, dh has leap and judges intervention.

Lets move onto weapons now. Thief still has no viable range option and requires them to be in anyform of danger constantly to get hit. mostly melee weapons and a 900 range shortbow. EVERYONE in the game has a viable range option that outclasses short bow. Shortbow is mainly used for utility and mid range kiting but still youre able to get hit by almost all abilities.

feel free to argue some of my points but these are my thoughts. thieves have no play right now in this meta where control and survivability are key

I dont know maybe I am wrong, but I dont think thiefs deal no dmg. They deal good amount of dmg of course not such as it will be possible to kill in few sec and then run away. This will be too strong and it was here already before. Tere is reason for current thief dmg

Zdenny.2704:

I dont know maybe I am wrong, but I dont think thiefs deal no dmg. They deal good amount of dmg of course not such as it will be possible to kill in few sec and then run away. This will be too strong and it was here already before. Tere is reason for current thief dmg

lol thief does do damage but everyone just does it better everyone has way more lockdown and way more hit potential than thief does. actually what am i saying all other classes do things better than thief right now. druids and they’re pets cause blind way more often than they should and engineers have easier access to stealth than thief does now also. btw our damage comes from stealth and backstab which is now negated with the amount of reveal in this game now.

- minus for u sir

also another thing to note every class has a way out or invuln.

-warrior – endure pain
-engineer – elixir s
-ele – mist form
-mesmer – distortion
-necro – extra health pool
- guardian – renewed focus
- ranger signet of stone
- herald – shield 5 ability

You describe pvp…

So what’s the role of a WvW thief then? “DON’T FIGHT” – great, wvw sounds thrilling suddenly. Honestly, go play wvw on your thief for a little while and then come back and talk. Let me know how “wonderful” that game experience is for you (considering you don’t think fighting is the role of a thief).

beliel.8397:

Zdenny.2704:

I dont know maybe I am wrong, but I dont think thiefs deal no dmg. They deal good amount of dmg of course not such as it will be possible to kill in few sec and then run away. This will be too strong and it was here already before. Tere is reason for current thief dmg

lol thief does do damage but everyone just does it better everyone has way more lockdown and way more hit potential than thief does. actually what am i saying all other classes do things better than thief right now. druids and they’re pets cause blind way more often than they should and engineers have easier access to stealth than thief does now also. btw our damage comes from stealth and backstab which is now negated with the amount of reveal in this game now.

perma invis+5k on hit+15k hit on backstab+perma blind, have tanky and evading skills. This is what you think will be balanced? This is your fighting potential from what thief lacks?
Btw only valuable reveal has engi now.. 6s reveal with 40s cd, half minute when you can go stealth.. and you dont fight engi every 40 seconds during whole match

Please post your build where you’re doing 15k backstabs, 5k+ hits, perma blinds, are tanky AND evasive.

Chips.7968:

Please post your build where you’re doing 15k backstabs, 5k+ hits, perma blinds, are tanky AND evasive.

It was an offer what others are thinking how to make thiefs playable again. I said nothing that it exist. Can you read?

Message Body length must at least be 15 trolls.

I love how people suggest “thieves should be balanced”

and people just fly wayyy off the handle and go “oh, so you want 15k backstabs, perma invis perma blinds and 50000 hp”

when a small buff to the hp pool and the healing buff we were promised would prob be enough if not just a good first step.

Zdenny.2704:

Chips.7968:

Please post your build where you’re doing 15k backstabs, 5k+ hits, perma blinds, are tanky AND evasive.

It was an offer what others are thinking how to make thiefs playable again. I said nothing that it exist. Can you read?

Fair enough – then would you like to comment when your thoughts about PvP role of not fighting should apply to all thieves in every game mode – particularly WvW.

Just because you think it’s fine in one scenario, doesn’t even remotely make it fine in all scenarios. Please go to WvW EB map and “play”. Or is flipping camps supposed to be “what thief is all about”.

Zdenny.2704:

Chips.7968:

Please post your build where you’re doing 15k backstabs, 5k+ hits, perma blinds, are tanky AND evasive.

It was an offer what others are thinking how to make thiefs playable again. I said nothing that it exist. Can you read?

honestly that wouldnt be fun but 15k isnt achieveable with backstabs and where are you getting this 5k hit lol i think at this point youre telling me to roll a mesmer who can lock you down and insta down that 15k health pool. (i know it was your suggestion but my mere retort is other classes can do that)

Can someone ban this forum troll? Obvious troll is obvious

Stop feeding this guy. We know what’s obvious, and it’s obvious thief is the worst PvP class by far atm and OP is a fail troll

skogkatt.7586:

If guilds are supposed to be of major importance in the game, idk what WvW guilds have use for thieves. Then again, idk exactly what I’m really owed here.

My WvW guild has used the smoke fields + blasts from thieves pretty effectively.
More effectively than double veiling anyway.

Outside of that, you sort of just scout/gank the backline when possible.

Zdenny.2704:

perma invis+5k on hit+15k hit on backstab+perma blind, have tanky and evading skills. This is what you think will be balanced? This is your fighting potential from what thief lacks?
Btw only valuable reveal has engi now.. 6s reveal with 40s cd, half minute when you can go stealth.. and you dont fight engi every 40 seconds during whole match

I am also interested in how you are getting these 15k backstabs. I did a bit of testing to find average numbers awhile back and backstab does nowhere near that much damage. In fact, it would be lucky to deal even a third of that to the classes currently being played in PvP.

I can just talk for myself but I am a dedicated thief player who plays nothing else and only pvp/wvw. I have to completely agree with OP. Everyone can play whatever he/she wants and even though I struggled a lot the first days with daredevil i am now really strong with it, which means I win most fights. (I had to adjust the build and the armor quite a bit). There will always be somebody who just counters you and thats o.k. (good condi players reck me).
But the mobility I get for being squishy is a trade off i want to make, otherwise I’d simply play another class.
I just want to speak up as I see too many complainers and I want to show that there are players just as OP and me who are fine with the class as it is.
In the end I’m happy with other players switching to Rev or Mesmer. The fact that I am so successful in pvp with a class everyone says is unviable makes me feeling like a skilled player and I like that.

OP. Thieves are far from balanced. For a moment, lets compare thieves and mesmers.

Thieves are a extremely fragile class with moderate burst, and team support in aoe stealth, that with HOT has been extremely nerffed due to all the new revealed mechanics.

Mesmers are extremely durable, extremely sustainy extremely high burst class with insane amounts of utility the best utility skill in the game with moderate mobility.

Note the difference? Mesmers have no real draw backs, it’s why they have become so common. Thieves however excel at one thing: Movement, which is all fine and dandy but not when you lack the ability to 1v1 people you run into. Thieves are extremely fragile, which is all fine and dandy if they have the burst damage to back it up, which they don’t. On my mesmer (chronomancer now?) My shatter combo’s which are as easy to land as dodging my opponent big attack do at least 8k, before air / blood sigils. My thief ? Backstab does around 5k, tops….. Starting to see the picture ?

Not to mention as fun as the Dare Devil elite is, it isn’t very good, it still need a lot of improvements.

I will say one thing though, although thieves are underpowered, they are far close to balanced then most of the other classes.

My entire point though in all is whats the point of this class right now when all the other class can do what it has better.

Christonya.3856:

Mesmers are extremely durable, extremely sustainy extremely high burst class with insane amounts of utility the best utility skill in the game with moderate mobility.

So, someone has never played mesmer.

As a mesmer main, let me correct you.

“Mesmers are extremely Durable”

No, no we are not. We are literally the squishiest of the casters.
For instance, we generally don’t carry condi-clear.

Not because we suck at building, but in order to provide the high burst/high utility, we have to sacrifice our own survivability.

“extremely sustainy”

It’s incredibly easy for almost any class that isn’t a bunker, to push you off the point.
In fact, THIEF is great at killing mesmers.

We have no regen, an easily interruptable heal, and all of our sustain utilities have really long cooldowns.

“extremely high burst class with insane amounts of utility the best utility skill in the game with moderate mobility.”

No.
Yes, we have a lot of burst if we build for it, and are able to keep clones up.
But to do that, we sacrifice utility and sustain.

And as far as utility. Portal isn’t that amazing and veil is falling out of favor in WvW.
Because smoke + blast does what veil does better.

So our utility is now Well of Precog and Gravity Well.

In which, to use, we have to sacrifice a whole traitline.

Which means losing either:
Condi-clear
Heals from shatter (For sustain)
More shatter damage

You’re overestimating the abilities of mesmers.
Yes, we have everything you listed, but only if we build SPECIFICALLY for that.

Otherwise, we have to disengage and pick our targets (Just like a thief).

I’ll agree the thief is fun to play simply because you cannot spam a rotation into infinity. It is a challenge to play effectively but at the same time you have to BE at a high level of skill to go beyond the +1/stealth/venom bot.

The thief is by no means a newbie-friendly and the parts of it that are are only effective against terrible players. Once you get to higher level of gameplay, the best thing to do is reroll unless you like getting frustrated and feeling useless all the time.

I would agree, thieves are not in nearly as bad a place as most people on this forum like to think. We do hurt in this meta, mostly due to some of the other classes being slightly overbuffed for the time being, but that is to be expected with having an expack launch. However, we are far from being an underpowered and/or ineffective class. Sorry to say you can’t play however the hell you want anymore and have to play your intended role. Sorry to say our class is balanced off avoiding damage rather than face-tanking it, whether it be through stealth, dodges, teleports, or distraction. People need to realize we are the most mobile class in the game for a reason, and that there are instances where we will be less viable than other professions, which could be said of any of the more niche usage classes. Learn to switch up your builds, utilities, and weaponsets for every situation, its important. Learn to use more than just stealth and dodge spam to avoid damage, teleporting to avoid damage and for misdirection are some of our main balancing points.

While I can’t say there aren’t games I have trouble and feel less powerful than other professions, I never feel utterly ineffective. Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it. I’ve mained thief since the prelaunch betas.

skogkatt.7586:

My uplevel Mesmer lasts longer in WvW than my Thief. Of casters, my Thief kills primarily Eles and Necros who I managed to throw enough at fast enough they didn’t shroud in time. Ofc, I expect Reapers to just mow me now, tho.

Roaming Mesmers and Rangers, still after the nerf, I would just run from. Players even evidently crumbier than I am could easily take me.

Roaming is dead. Has been for a while.
Hybrid condi-tanks are just too strong. (And yes, I admit, this includes condi-mesmer)

I also expect mesmer to last longer in GvGs than thief.
Thief doesn’t have a good long range option, you’re essentially a suicide squad outside of smoke field.

Mesmer in GvG primarily stays long range, outside of veil (Unless you’re me and you’re running wells. Backline wells mesmer is pretty strong) so you really shouldn’t die.

Unless
1. Your driver screwed up.
2. Your front line screwed up.
3. You screwed up.

I think a fair conversation would be giving the thief better long range options.
Thief’s current options are… pretty bad.

Zdenny.2704:

Hey there, I see lots of you think the thief is underpowered all the time and I got tired of this. Thief is still one of the best and demanded class in entire game.
He is not though designed to be fighter anymore, ironically its presented as an assassin/dmg dealer.
People are crying everytime about it. I started to play a thief recently and i think is too strong and valueble in pvp. If you would like to get fighting potential and survivability, Anet should reduce his mobility in the meaning that thiefs will not began OP again.
During the last years, the thief are one of the well balanced class in the game.
They are not designed to fight long duration fights. Its designed to hit and run.
Well played thief is hard to kill because of his mobility. If you are complainig about your insta death in pvp, then you just suck and play him wrong.

Its like the todays Druid thing… he is good bunker its hard to kill him, but hey.. on other hand he cant kill you eiter.. Just like thief.. They are not OP, its balanced.
Moving around the map quickly can win the game.

So please stop saying that thief are dead, thiefs are so underpowered, thief cant do kittens. Thiefs are designed to hit and run with high mobility and hard to kill still.
So stick with it or play another class if you want fights where you could win.

I would like to know if any others has similar opinion about thiefs nowadays.

it’s not that thief is bad… the thing is that now all the classe’s can do a lot of damage without many risk as thief does…

nikdik.1934:

OP, it sounds to me like you are just bad at the game. Go back to your OP Warrior or Guardian and learn to play noob!

Warrior? OP? Ha! It’s cute how people think warriors/guardians don’t take skill. They’re looked as the ‘starter’ classes.

I haven’t felt weak. I do feel a bit slighted at times, but the build I keep posting (work in progress, but hur dur I have d/p again..yay) is highly effective at 100-0ing anything in the way. Elixir s, mist form, arcane shield, endure pain… no probs. We do need buffs to core though (as the only way I pull this off is from daredevil). But as a whole (if you have DD), we aren’t as bad anymore.

I’ve played thief since beta. I agree with you. Thief is well balanced, no need for huge buff, but there must be some balancing for some of the new classes. Guardian cannot spam a penetrating arrow, which deal more damage then backstab, and usable every 4 seconds, from 1200, it’s a bit too much.

Speaking about roles, daredevil’s new dash-dodge helps us a lot for moving even faster trought the map, without being killed most of the times. If the fight 2vs2 is going bad, u just leave before getting killed and by the time they kill the other one, you’re already on another point, maybe ganking in a 1vs1,as a +1
As a conparison with dota and moba games, thief is the 4th position (jungler). He must stay alive and help everyone.

Still, some balance is needed on thr other classes, too kittening dh and pretty brainless reaper, nor tried chrono yet

Thief damage isn’t even that great. Mobility is good but I don’t think that thief is required in the new meta. Before HoT it could be played as decapper and ress bot but scrapper is much better at ressing and is actually useful in team fights and mesmer/chronomancer has way more burst damage. It’s not bad but it could really need some small buffs

This can’t possibly be a serious thread…

Xeyon.6419:

I would agree, thieves are not in nearly as bad a place as most people on this forum like to think. We do hurt in this meta, mostly due to some of the other classes being slightly overbuffed for the time being, but that is to be expected with having an expack launch. However, we are far from being an underpowered and/or ineffective class. Sorry to say you can’t play however the hell you want anymore and have to play your intended role. Sorry to say our class is balanced off avoiding damage rather than face-tanking it, whether it be through stealth, dodges, teleports, or distraction. People need to realize we are the most mobile class in the game for a reason, and that there are instances where we will be less viable than other professions, which could be said of any of the more niche usage classes. Learn to switch up your builds, utilities, and weaponsets for every situation, its important. Learn to use more than just stealth and dodge spam to avoid damage, teleporting to avoid damage and for misdirection are some of our main balancing points.

While I can’t say there aren’t games I have trouble and feel less powerful than other professions, I never feel utterly ineffective. Just my 2 cents, take it or leave it. I’ve mained thief since the prelaunch betas.

Pretty much agree. The mobillity and snap decision thieves must make is why i play the class. Other classes feel stale.
I do think some other classes need some dmg tweaking tho.

Aidan.7120:

As a conparison with dota and moba games, thief is the 4th position (jungler). He must stay alive and help everyone.

Exactly, we are the +1, people here dont seem to understand it.
Pretty much stop the qq and start learning the matchups

Don’t worry op..I still think that thief is a pretty strong class.

though i don’t mind if anet buff us, just pretend to complain like all of us here so we get attention !