Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I’m kinda new player in the game, only had GW2 for about 2½months now. I’ve always had issues with thiefs, but after the recent nerf to thiefs, so many has moved to p/d build and this is giving me issues.

Now it seems that I’m completely unable to contest them in 1vs1 situations. 1vs1 is manageable against bad thief players. They usually win me 90% of the time if they know what they are doing.

Okay, so this is how the fight starts normally:

I see them and they see me, I attack on them with running (To not waste leap). They make a smoke field with p5 and jump on it -> stealth. They backstab me and drop my health to about 60% (I know, it is usually alot more % of hp pool, but I’ve got p/t/v gear! ). After this I usually have to whirl to get them defensive. This they will evade – every single time. Since that is my main source of damage, they can afford to use all their endurance on that. Everytime I get a thief under 50%, they will reset. The issue is that my cooldowns are so much longer (I am shout build with double cond. removal from shouts) than theirs, so they just “endure” me an wear me out. Also, good thiefs just kite me with p/d and shortbow. My sustainability isn’t good enough I think.

What I would like to know from you guys is that what do guardians do when they win you? Also how do you handle guardians overall? I know we are not a 1vs1 prof. and I’m not the greatest player, so any help you can lend is appreciated!

My build is 10/0/30/30/0 build, similar to this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad2oZjIuKX0

Thanks,
Not-looking

1. It’s D/P not P/D, D/P is alternative backstab spec to D/D.
2. GS 5 goes through stealth, if you hit them you have a guaranteed pull, if not you have an indicator to his position.
3. If they dodge GS pull try to interrupt them mid heartseeker just after they lay down black powder, shield 5 can do that perfectly. This denies them stealth and leaves them vulnerable with a lot of ini spent.
4. Thieves hate retaliation, GS 4 is good for this.
5. Watch out for the basilisk venom icon, if they try to backstab you from distance just dodge after you see the heartseeker animation from black powder field.
6. Shelter is best pvp heal on guardian.
7. Invis =/= invuln, keep moving erratically and keep autoattacking at all times, if you see your autoattack chain goes through then you’ve hit him.
8. Don’t stand in black powder fields.
9. Use hammer 3 and 5 (he’ll need to waste a stunbreak) to zone him in, you’ll outlast him in a face to face battle. CC first, then damage. Thief is an excellent profession to evade/kite telegraphed attacks.
10. Don’t panic with your skills, don’t spam everything.

P.S I’d use some knight pieces and soldier runes instead of that PVT. 15-16k hp and high toughness guard is totally fine for pvp. I’d suggest carrying a scepter+focus or scepter+shield with you. Scepter melts thieves.

Psybunny.8906:

1. It’s D/P not P/D, D/P is alternative backstab spec to D/D.
2. GS 5 goes through stealth, if you hit them you have a guaranteed pull, if not you have an indicator to his position.
3. If they dodge GS pull try to interrupt them mid heartseeker just after they lay down black powder, shield 5 can do that perfectly. This denies them stealth and leaves them vulnerable with a lot of ini spent.
4. Thieves hate retaliation, GS 4 is good for this.
5. Watch out for the basilisk venom icon, if they try to backstab you from distance just dodge after you see the heartseeker animation from black powder field.
6. Shelter is best pvp heal on guardian.
7. Invis =/= invuln, keep moving erratically and keep autoattacking at all times, if you see your autoattack chain goes through then you’ve hit him.
8. Don’t stand in black powder fields.
9. Use hammer 3 and 5 (he’ll need to waste a stunbreak) to zone him in, you’ll outlast him in a face to face battle. CC first, then damage. Thief is an excellent profession to evade/kite telegraphed attacks.
10. Don’t panic with your skills, don’t spam everything.

P.S I’d use some knight pieces and soldier runes instead of that PVT. 15-16k high toughness guard is totally fine for pvp. I’d suggest carrying a scepter+focus or scepter+shield with you. Scepter melts thieves.

First of all, thank you for the reply!

1. Sorry, I don’t know the correct name, I think it is main-hand dagger and off-hand pistol?

2. The projectile of GS5 can only hit targets that are seen when the skill is activated. If no visible targets when activated, no projectiles will be flying. Thanks anyway!

3. This is a very good tip, I haven’t thought about it at all! However I am running Hammer/GS/staff (2 of those 3, mixing as I roam).

4. In my post I mention resets. This belongs to one of them – not attacking while retaliation and shouts(boons) are up. That would be kinda bad from them, wouldn’t you agree?

5. Basilisk venom is not as scary as thiefs guild. I know it sounds wierd, but extra damage without taking any damage is very good against a guardian.

6. Shelter is a good heal, also we get might for blocks -> more heals with AH. A good thief doesn’t all-in on me, he kites and waits, exhausts. Attacking while guardian cannot attack, but is blocking everything, is not wise.

7. This is what I do, thats why I get them to sub-50% hp A good tip though!

8. Yeah, I won’t. I’ll try think about this even more now.

9. Both skills are interruptable and none of those are stuns, only 5 is a knockdown if you run in to it. You can blink over it or what usually thiefs do is that they use the shortbow and just jump over it. This is a very good point since bad thiefs usually waste their stunbreakers in this kind of a situations. You cannot heartseeker over this, true, but shadowstep and shortbow skill(Sorry I really don’t know what is it called) will work just fine!
“Wards can be bypassed by jumping, Teleporting, or Stability.”
-http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ring_of_Warding

10. This is a very good point tbh. I know my problem is that sometimes when I see the 4k->3k combo, I panic because I think he will drop me down instantly

Many people suggest Knights gear. And I understand it yeah. But I got same amount of crit and more power than they right now. I have 200 armor less, and 4k hp more.

Anyway, I thank you for your time and list, let’s hope others contribute as much as you did!

Thanks,
Not-looking

Hi, guardians that give me problems are the one with a great burst … i don’t really know their build, just saying.
GS5 will chain even not visible targets . it’s a must when you see the house popping (shadow refuge) to pull thief off.
You have to pay attention at the smoke field and use something into it. staff’s wall is great to knock down the thief and make it waste initiative and stay visible.
remember that thieves steal from you a 4s daze, so don’t wait too much to use your healing skill and pay attention when you are out of stun breakers.

Some things in general when fighting thieves.

• Try predicting the thief, turning the front towards the thief in the right moment, will
  reduce backstab damage by half. If you block or dodge a backstab, you can make a quick turn which in most cases will lead to this.

• If the thief goes low, or tries to escape from several people, if you don’t have any ranged stun available to interrupt him, go stand in the blackpowder field. The thief will only be able to get 2 heartseekers through the smoke field (or if a poor thief he will be revealed) and this will make an impact on his stealth duration and he’ll go low on initiative faster.

• Thieves are extremely vulnerable to knockdowns, Stuns, Immobilizes and Chills.

• Aegis against stealthed thieves removes charges of venoms,
  but doesn’t prevent the thief from pulling off another backstab.

DanH.5879:

Heienkatso.9628:

They usually win me 90% of the time if they know what they are doing.

they are winning you ? omg, that is terrible
but hey, maybe you can win at poker online ?

OT: the usual l2p mixed with “thief is OP again”
answer 1: you can ask a-net support for tips ? (make a ticket)
answer2: request MORE thief nerfs via ticketing system as above

Don’t be a kitten kthxbye, he is not whining about OP thief, he is looking for tips to improve his gameplay. You’re the type of player that has given thief players the type of reputation they have atm.

My advice is – don’t take 1v1’s vs thieves. Thieves can always reset the fight, unless they are determined to fight to the death(or duel setting), or you can burst them before they go “oshi…!”. I am not saying you can’t “win” by making them run(guards are one of the easier professions to do so), it’s just pointless to take a fight in the open field like this. Just ignore them, use staff 3, line of warding and continue running towards your objective.

Most thieves avoid a guardian confrontation, some will fight them in a 1 on 1 situation, but as a guardian, why are you alone anyways. I run a shouts heal build, gs,hmr, scepter/torch with knights/soldiers.

Most thieves 1 on 1 arent a problem, they usually flee, long drawn out fights arent what most thieves are after. If the thief does stay, the battle goes on for awhile until help arrives either side. But my real advantage is my main is a thief.

So Unless the thief geta creative, I usually know what and when they will strike and eat them up with scepter/torch.

anyway the best way to learn how to counter thieves is to fight thieves …. a lot.
Try to group a thief that has just killed you and ask him if he wants to do some duels.
If he’s not a jerk he will accept and you will have your chance to practice. Doing that, try to change you strategy/weapon set.

Remember that good thieves will stealth every 3-4s. Interrupt the heart seeker.

Gs #5 does interrupt stealthing players. I hate that ability. Interrupts me a lot even while stealthed.

Some good advice.

The best thing you can do is go to spvp and duel other thieves on a dueling server. Get some practice.

swinsk.6410:

Remember that good thieves will stealth every 3-4s.

I think good thieves stealth when they need to.
Doing it as part of a “rotation” is just useless and make you more predictable.

Well I never lost to a guardian so far in WvW with S/D. In order to beat me, you gotta roll a thief, mesmer, or possibly a necro. Mesmer and necro both have crap mobility that I can get away without using stealth.

swinsk.6410:

Remember that good thieves will stealth every 3-4s. Interrupt the heart seeker.

Maybe, but a lot of the best thieves almost never steath.

Cyhann.2609:

swinsk.6410:

Remember that good thieves will stealth every 3-4s. Interrupt the heart seeker.

Maybe, but a lot of the best thieves almost never steath.

Or they won’t use a pistol offhand to set one up.

Don’t need to stealth at all to win a guardian.

Thanks everybody for the replies, negative and positive! I’ll try to improve my plays with tips gotten from here!

Kinda nice actually to get so many good posts regarding the matter!

Regards,
Not-looking

Have a dev who is immune to being fired play your class.

This guy is clearly complaining about wvw.

WvW stealthing every 3-4s is crucial for landing backstabs every 3-4s.

In sPvP it’s a whole different story.

If you’re trying to attack the Thief in Stealth, keep in mind that you won’t actually see damage numbers show on screen if you hit them successfully. The only way you’ll know you actually hit them is if you are either using auto attack and the chain progresses, or you watch the combat log.
That, I think, is the main thing that gives people the impression that they can’t kill a Stealthed Thief.
I personally think that needs to be fixed.

DanH.5879:

Heienkatso.9628:

They usually win me 90% of the time if they know what they are doing.

they are winning you ? omg, that is terrible
but hey, maybe you can win at poker online ?

OT: the usual l2p mixed with “thief is OP again”
answer 1: you can ask a-net support for tips ? (make a ticket)
answer2: request MORE thief nerfs via ticketing system as above

What kind of jerk reply is that??? The OP asked an honest question without complaining at all. He just wanted some tips on how to play better. I’d much rather see that kind of post on these forums than your chicken kitten one.

Cactus.2710:

DanH.5879:

Heienkatso.9628:

They usually win me 90% of the time if they know what they are doing.

they are winning you ? omg, that is terrible
but hey, maybe you can win at poker online ?

OT: the usual l2p mixed with “thief is OP again”
answer 1: you can ask a-net support for tips ? (make a ticket)
answer2: request MORE thief nerfs via ticketing system as above

What kind of jerk reply is that??? The OP asked an honest question without complaining at all. He just wanted some tips on how to play better. I’d much rather see that kind of post on these forums than your chicken kitten one.

I totally agree. Plenty of people come on here to complain/hate, so it’s understandable that DanH might make that assumption, and then decide not to read the post. That’s a perfectly viable strategy for dealing with haters…then again, if you don’t read the post, maybe you shouldn’t respond to it. And you certainly shouldn’t respond with unfounded insults.

Also, the OP is obviously writing in English as a 2nd (3rd/4th?) language. There is no need to insult that. It’s impressive, even if there are some minor grammatical errors…how many languages do you speak, Dan H?

“2. The projectile of GS5 can only hit targets that are seen when the skill is activated. If no visible targets when activated, no projectiles will be flying. Thanks anyway!”

It actually does. It’s anything within range. I 100% guarantee you it does.

1. he is looking/asking on the wrong forum for his worrior class, how to play it
2. i still believe the answers i gave, are good (after all, a-net should help their customers!)

a. for a general thief defeat is to CC/launch him when he does SR, because it’s his gtfo card
b. don’t be a noob to stay still asking for backstabs in the back, if thief is in stealth run in circles, changing direction every time (facestab is 1/2 damage of BS)
c. and try to dodge the C&D, succesfully dodging 2 of them WILL make the thief re-think the situation
d. for d/p pros, you can evade/block his HS, staying outside the blind field, doing this, will make him loose 9 ini, which hurts…
e. thieves guild don’t do too much dmg (unless they have fury), they are used as diversion only and as additional dps, i guess they can be ignored since they don’t backstab for 35k !

happy now?

on this forum i am not needed to tell what skill to use on your imba worrior/guard/whatever against a thief, just some general guides

yes, the offtopic was kind of rude, but maybe i am tired of all this whining (i can’t kill thiefs, they are so OP, omg) and then new nerfs come our way….next month same thing….next month same thing….same thing for many months now ? 8?9?10?

why a-net doesn’t put free guides how to kill thieves ?!? make skills on other classes for auto-revealing stealthed targets in a small area ? it’s their fault for not helping the community, not mine.
i will not make anymore suggestions, because my ideas are just being ignored (the PVE condition problem we have, has been here from the beginning of the game, but instead of fixing the 25 bleed limit or do something about it, they are busy nerfing left and right)

and eng is not my main, it’s the 2’nd, and working on the 3rd: “deutsch”

DanH.5879:

1. he is looking/asking on the wrong forum for his worrior class, how to play it

he is a guardian …

and he is not in the wrong forum. Since the main suggestion to L2P is “roll a thief and learn how it works” he is asking thieves how they actually work …

@swinsk.6410: even in wvw you don’t need to stealth to kill a guardian. I do stealth, btw, but you can do it even without backstabs. S/D works great too.
Usually against guardians I switch between S/D and D/D to rip boons, daze him with the sword, then daze him with stolen ability then switch to d/d to burst him down…
Sometime s/d is enough though

DanH.5879:

1. he is looking/asking on the wrong forum for his worrior class, how to play it
2. i still believe the answers i gave, are good (after all, a-net should help their customers!)

a. for a general thief defeat is to CC/launch him when he does SR, because it’s his gtfo card
b. don’t be a noob to stay still asking for backstabs in the back, if thief is in stealth run in circles, changing direction every time (facestab is 1/2 damage of BS)
c. and try to dodge the C&D, succesfully dodging 2 of them WILL make the thief re-think the situation
d. for d/p pros, you can evade/block his HS, staying outside the blind field, doing this, will make him loose 9 ini, which hurts…
e. thieves guild don’t do too much dmg (unless they have fury), they are used as diversion only and as additional dps, i guess they can be ignored since they don’t backstab for 35k !

happy now?

on this forum i am not needed to tell what skill so use on your worrior/guard against a thief, just some general guides

yes, the offtopic was kind of rude, but maybe i am tired of all this whining (i can’t kill thiefs, they are so OP, omg) and then new nerfs come our way….next month same thing….next month same thing….same thing for many months now ? 8?9?10?

why a-net doesn’t put free guides how to kill thieves ?!? make skills on other classes for auto-revealing stealthed targets in a small area ?
i will not make anymore suggestions, because my ideas are just being ignored (the PVE condition problem we have, has been here from the beginning of the game, but instead they are busy nerfing left and right)

and eng is not my main, it’s the 2’nd, and working on the 3rd: “deutsch”

You clearly need to L2P, I’m having zero problems on my thief.

And this is the correct forum for such topics, players who play the profession that you’re having the most trouble against know the most of it. They can give the best advice on how to counter them, explain how they act or what messes them up.

I don’t play a guardian, so I’m not an expert there, but generally speaking if you want to actually kill the thief you have to spike them down quickly before they can escape. If you start winning the thief will just run away and reset the fight, so your best bet is to kill them before they can get away.

That’s where things get tricky for you though, your gear is too defensive. Odds are you won’t be able to spike them down, which means the best you can do is force them run. Builds like that works great in zergs, but I wouldn’t use one for dueling something as slippery as a thief.

TL;DR: Use a more offensive build or stick to groups

Stack Protection and Retal. Wait. Do all you can to outlast him.

You will not kill a Thief, though. He will generally outheal your damage or escape and reset the fight.

DanH.5879:

troll

Exactly..

Tribio.8531:

DanH.5879:

troll

Exactly..

problem ? ,i am also giving “advice” .. ok ok, maybe it’s not very constructive the 1st one…but every bit is welcome, no ?
can somebody sticky this thread, so i can be on the wall of f(l)ame forever ?

i am very sure others will appreciate the help, also to avoid the same topic 2 months from now ? or make a proper thread: “how to steam roll a thief in wvw”

All I see from you is:
“>werlegion, amirite, problem?, umad?, hue hue hue, trollface.jpg, heaven”

I think you’ve mistaken gw2 community as something else. Your inability to adept to thief changes over the past months shouldn’t be vented onto players who seek honest advice. If you can’t be mature enough to help others out and you see everything as a personal nerf attack to “your” profession then you shouldn’t post at all. Other people deal with the changes to certain professions by adapting to it and gladly give out tips to improve the overall gameplay for other players aswell. Furthermore, it’s not like thief is awful in wubwub or smth.

they whining about us and asking for nerfs,
we reply with jerky/hateful replies

simple, really
payback, you reap what you sow, as they say… after 9 months of changing my gear and playstyle because of them, i am full, it’s time to stop nerfing us and fix the kitten skillz and other stuff (i want the 25 bleed stack limit, to be removed for example)
it’s the first condition to be removed anyway, be it first or last cond applied (the wiki is a lie)…
however, it would be great in pve…

Daw, you’re never going to forgive the world for what they’ve done to you. Buhuhuhuu. Well if you don’t know how to handle your own mechanics that’s not mr Guardian’s problem, leave him be. O.o

Psybunny.8906:

All I see from you is:
“>werlegion, amirite, problem?, umad?, hue hue hue, trollface.jpg, heaven”

I think you’ve mistaken gw2 community as something else. Your inability to adept to thief changes over the past months shouldn’t be vented onto players who seek honest advice. If you can’t be mature enough to help others out and you see everything as a personal nerf attack to “your” profession then you shouldn’t post at all. Other people deal with the changes to certain professions by adapting to it and gladly give out tips to improve the overall gameplay for other players aswell. Furthermore, it’s not like thief is awful in wubwub or smth.

LMAO +1

DanH.5879:

b don’t be a noob to stay still asking for backstabs in the back, if thief is in stealth run in circles, changing direction every time (facestab is 1/2 damage of BS)

extra: if you eaten a C&D or thief used HiS/blinding powder, count 1,2, dodge

and for the haters out there, instead of helping the poor guy, you are flaming me (and maybe want to start a flame war???)
you should look in the mirror and say “i am not better than him”

the number of jerks in this forum is astonishing… (i’m glad that i am not the only one )
the thief is the most easy class to counter, somebody needs a brain transfusion !!!

DanH.5879:

extra: if you eaten a C&D or thief used HiS/blinding powder, count 1,2, dodge

i read something like this multiple times and actually there are someone out there doing it. that’s why i usually stack 2 stealths. a lot of time it goes like this: blining powder – HiS = double stealth …. opponent count 1 – 2 dodge …. “oh no, he’s not appearing” dodge. At this time i have a couple seconds left for a bs or simply i can wait stealth to wear off anche c&d him without fearing a dodge…

Easy counter is easily counterable

Well first you should know that D/P thieves suck so fighting them is a waste of your time.

They will just run as soon as they get low and hang around in stealth until they get a chance to hit you while distracted.

Just get be able to survive their BV combo burst (or just dodge it) and you can usually get them low easily, then hopefully down them before they run.

I can’t really teach you how to play guard since I don’t play mine but you shouldn’t be losing to D/P thieves in 1v1 situations.

wait… did anyone mention “stealth disruptor” ?

Daendur.2357:

DanH.5879:

extra: if you eaten a C&D or thief used HiS/blinding powder, count 1,2, dodge

i read something like this multiple times and actually there are someone out there doing it. that’s why i usually stack 2 stealths. a lot of time it goes like this: blining powder – HiS = double stealth …. opponent count 1 – 2 dodge …. “oh no, he’s not appearing” dodge. At this time i have a couple seconds left for a bs or simply i can wait stealth to wear off anche c&d him without fearing a dodge…

Easy counter is easily counterable

so a smart guy, eh ?
enemy: thief uses blinding(or HiS), you got C&D-ed
count 1, 2, dodge
after 1st dodge, start counting again: 1,2, (looking if thief appears so you don’t waste a 2nd dodge) dodge again, remember to run in circles OR backpedaling facing the thief last position, in the worst case you get face-stabbed (1/2 BS damage)
http://coachingsoccerconditioning.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Backpedal-and-Head-Figure-2.gif
don’t count too fast or too slow, you should start the dodge after 1.5-2 seconds since when the thief stealthed (if more than >2.5 seconds pass, the BS is already on it’s way to land, too fast <1.5s and you waste the dodge)

p.s. after the 1st dodge, the enemy thief must re-position and attempt to get to your back for a 2nd attempt, which takes him ~2-3 seconds
it would be great if you have some vigor access/food for faster endurance regen… or blocking skillz
voila

p.s.2. if you don’t know how to count, then…..

i was just saying that following a scheme is not always good. you can also be backstabbed the very first second after stealth…
moreover vs a d/p you can’t know how many seconds he is stacking… you can count 1 – 2 but he was jumping in his field

Daendur.2357:

i was just saying that following a scheme is not always good. you can also be backstabbed the very first second after stealth…
moreover vs a d/p you can’t know how many seconds he is stacking… you can count 1 – 2 but he was jumping in his field

that’s why you can backpedal with your face towards the field

i didn’t realize you could back-stab someone (from the back of the victim in less than 1 second since you stealth), not to mention casting it takes 0.25 ? (speedhack or quickness)
maybe facestab him/her, yes, BS …i don’t think so .. (that’s when he is in front of you)

if he is already in your back and stealths … that’s another story, that’s when you immediately press the dodge button, then turn

the trick is to always face the thief (never turn your back) and interrupt/dodge/block the first few attacks, then it’s much more easy for you to WIN !!?!#?!$%^#
remember to bring a stun breaker for basilisk venom

DanH.5879:

i didn’t realize you could back-stab someone (from the back of the victim in less than 1 second since you stealth), not to mention casting it takes 0.25 ? (speedhack or quickness)

tbh it’s quite easy, no hack needed, especially if my opponent is running to me.
Steal, turn, BS. Or I can c&d or HiS running through him and immediately BS.

Backpedaling let you move at half normal speed (in combat), so if you have Fleet Shadow it’s really easy to reach a backpedaling opponent and bs him.

Btw I usually don’t have problems with thieves, I was just saying that you have to adapt.