Guild Wars 2

0/0/30/10/30
Shadow Arts: Shadow’s embrace/ Hidden Thief (Stealth on steal)/ Shadow Rejuvenation.
Acrobatics: Descent of Shadows
Trickery: Instinctual response/Bountiful theft/Sleight of hand
Armor: Dire (Errol) Condition/Toughness/Vitality , x6 runes of perplexity
Weapons: Pistol/ Dagger/ Shortbow
Sigils: Preferably Superior Sigil of corruption, Superior Sigil of Bursting
Utilities for Roaming:Shadow refuge/Shadow step/Signet of Shadows/ Bassi Venom
Utilities for Duels: Shadow refuge/Shadow step/Spider venom/ Bassi Venom

Armor Rating: 2,999
Vitality: 19,000+
Condition damage: 1800+ with out stacks, 2200+ condition damage with 25 stacks of corruption, Bloodlust buff, and food.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqaFmQ4e4UIVT59wBFLzqrQUB-jUCB4iCi0CBikGMTqIasl1FRjVJjIqW3AzYmIq2jATKgFlGB-w

not a true Thiefsmer without your clones o.o

Zacchary.6183:

not a true Thiefsmer without your clones o.o

Q__Q yeah… but i do have Thieves ;D

Good point.

Zacchary.6183:

Good point.

Yes sir. How do you like the theory of the build setup?

I might tinker with it at a later date.

Zacchary.6183:

I might tinker with it at a later date.

Feel free, and have fun!

Wish thieves got a clone skill as well.
I would love to have the “Decoy” skill on my thief.

Toxity.2547:

Wish thieves got a clone skill as well.
I would love to have the “Decoy” skill on my thief.

It would be more like “Contacts”.

Don’t we all wish we could self produce mirror images of our selves….

Build updated to Dire set.

AikijinX.6258:

Build updated to Dire set.

Build link, perhaps? :) I am trying to understand why a pure Dire set would be advantageous over pure Carrion, or even a mix/match of both?

xmtrcv.5236:

AikijinX.6258:

Build updated to Dire set.

Build link, perhaps? I am trying to understand why a pure Dire set would be advantageous over pure Carrion, or even a mix/match of both?

=\ I didn’t really want to go into that gw2 calculator. I’m so lazy.. But i will do it, just give me one moment, but to answer your question carrion if i am not mistaken deals condi/power/vit. While dire uses condi/ vitality/ toughness. If I was fighting a melee class who do you think would survive a bit longer, someone running carrion, or dire? My armor is at 2.9k w/ 19k hp. Condition damage doesn’t focus on power or precision.

Here you go: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqaFmQ4e4UIVT59wBFLzqrQUB-jUCB4iCi0CBikGMTqIasl1FRjVJjIqW3AzYmIq2jATKgFlGB-w

-Note Hp pool isn’t 19k here due to World buffs.

Warning: I’m not known to math well, so by all means, please double-check.

Using AikijinX’s build as a base, it appears that using Dire over Carrion (weapons + armor only) provides the following trade-offs. (All numbers are approximate.)

• Toughness: + 8% damage reduction
• Power: - 27% effective power (direct damage)
• Effective Health (EHP): + 13%

Vitality and Condition Damage remain the same (for all intents and purposes).

xmtrcv.5236:

Warning: I’m not known to math well, so by all means, please double-check.

Using AikijinX’s build as a base, it appears that using Dire over Carrion (weapons + armor only) provides the following trade-offs. (All numbers are approximate.)

• Toughness: + 8% damage reduction
• Power: - 27% effective power (direct damage)
• Effective Health (EHP): + 13%

Vitality and Condition Damage remain the same (for all intents and purposes).

So essentially you’d be getting 800 more damage reduction, and 1300 more hit points. More bang for your buck. And yes Vit and condi remain the same.

Well, not quite. At least I think not quite.

Dire from Carrion
Dire provides a +358 point gain in Toughness, increasing Damage Reduction by 8.32% and the Effective Health Pool by 13.57%; while sustaining a -358 point loss in Power, decreasing Effective Power by 27.77%.

Carrion from Dire
Carrion provides a +358 point gain in Power, increasing Effective Power by 38.45%; while sustaining a -358 point loss in Toughness, reducing Damage Reduction by 8.32% and the Effective Health Pool by 11.95%.

Both of these stats only apply to direct damage, taken and given.

Builds

• Dire
• Carrion

Power

• Dire: 931
• Carrion: 1289

Toughness

• Dire: 2995
• Carrion: 2637

Effective Power

• Dire: 969.57
• Carrion: 1342.4

Effective Health Pool

• Dire: 29697
• Carrion: 26147

Damage Reduction

• Dire: 38.70
• Carrion: 30.38

Dire has less “bang” for your buck. Quite literally. (pewpew xD)

I think I would rather do more damage and get hit for slightly more, than do less damage and get hit for slightly less.

Again, mathing is not my strong suit. xD

“For this build you don’t need anything in the deadly arts or critical strikes tree.
0/0/30/10/30 is what is going to be one of the most viable with P/P”

Why P/P? Condition damage only lends itself to the 1 skill, so dagger would be a viable option providing more mobility and an additional stealth mechanism. Is there something about the 4 and 5 skills that you prefer as it wasn’t clear in the video you used anything but the 1 skill.

Thanks!

MrQuillen.3014:

“For this build you don’t need anything in the deadly arts or critical strikes tree.
0/0/30/10/30 is what is going to be one of the most viable with P/P”

Why P/P? Condition damage only lends itself to the 1 skill, so dagger would be a viable option providing more mobility and an additional stealth mechanism. Is there something about the 4 and 5 skills that you prefer as it wasn’t clear in the video you used anything but the 1 skill.

Thanks!

To answer simply…
Sleight of Hand + Headshot + Runes of Perplexity

MrQuillen.3014:

“For this build you don’t need anything in the deadly arts or critical strikes tree.
0/0/30/10/30 is what is going to be one of the most viable with P/P”

Why P/P? Condition damage only lends itself to the 1 skill, so dagger would be a viable option providing more mobility and an additional stealth mechanism. Is there something about the 4 and 5 skills that you prefer as it wasn’t clear in the video you used anything but the 1 skill.

Thanks!

The auto attack is crucial you need to keep constant bleed and condition damage on your opponent, wait for them to open, or their chain attack, then simply interrupt. Then auto attack again wait for an opening, then interrupt. The more this happens the better of you will be. This build is about patience and waiting. Think of it as you are on the defensive at all times waiting for your chance to strike, and when you do it will be nasty. And that strike is considered the confusion stacks. It’s all strategic.

xmtrcv.5236:

Well, not quite. At least I think not quite.

Dire from Carrion
Dire provides a +358 point gain in Toughness, increasing Damage Reduction by 8.32% and the Effective Health Pool by 13.57%; while sustaining a -358 point loss in Power, decreasing Effective Power by 27.77%.

Carrion from Dire
Carrion provides a +358 point gain in Power, increasing Effective Power by 38.45%; while sustaining a -358 point loss in Toughness, reducing Damage Reduction by 8.32% and the Effective Health Pool by 11.95%.

Both of these stats only apply to direct damage, taken and given.

Builds

• Dire
• Carrion

Power

• Dire: 931
• Carrion: 1289

Toughness

• Dire: 2995
• Carrion: 2637

Effective Power

• Dire: 969.57
• Carrion: 1342.4

Effective Health Pool

• Dire: 29697
• Carrion: 26147

Damage Reduction

• Dire: 38.70
• Carrion: 30.38

Dire has less “bang” for your buck. Quite literally. (pewpew xD)

I think I would rather do more damage and get hit for slightly more, than do less damage and get hit for slightly less.

Again, mathing is not my strong suit. xD

Hahah okay okay, well you don’t need power with conditions. Bottom line :p

Sigil of bursting applies 6% more critical damage. Use poison on weaponswap and 10% bleedingduration in both sets to round up to 6s bleeds instead to apply more conditionpressure.

Zumy.6318:

Sigil of bursting applies 6% more critical damage. Use poison on weaponswap and 10% bleedingduration in both sets to round up to 6s bleeds instead to apply more conditionpressure.

Thats a good tip, but my bleeds are only there just to act as a secondary condition. My main damage comes from Confusion. Thanks for the feedback. And actually i did a test with poison and I get 254 per tick with 8 stacks of corruption.

The bleeds rounded up to 6sek are good dps if you meet a player that actually knows how to play and does not spam like crazy with confu on him.

The poison is not and never will be for sheer dps. It is for healingreduction… And vs Metawarriors and Rangers or Eles, you will need it.

Never talking about baddies. Those you will make explode with this build.

AikijinX.6258:

xmtrcv.5236:

AikijinX.6258:

Build updated to Dire set.

Build link, perhaps? I am trying to understand why a pure Dire set would be advantageous over pure Carrion, or even a mix/match of both?

=\ I didn’t really want to go into that gw2 calculator. I’m so lazy.. But i will do it, just give me one moment, but to answer your question carrion if i am not mistaken deals condi/power/vit. While dire uses condi/ vitality/ toughness. If I was fighting a melee class who do you think would survive a bit longer, someone running carrion, or dire? My armor is at 2.9k w/ 19k hp. Condition damage doesn’t focus on power or precision.

Here you go: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqaFmQ4e4UIVT59wBFLzqrQUB-jUCB4iCi0CBikGMTqIasl1FRjVJjIqW3AzYmIq2jATKgFlGB-w

-Note Hp pool isn’t 19k here due to World buffs.

You have rabid rings, earings…so there are not dire combo stats in the game? And what about the back item, where did you get it with dire combo, pls answer, I searched on google, asked everyone, nobody knows.

AikijinX.6258:

Hahah okay okay, well you don’t need power with conditions. Bottom line :p

Oh, I agree. I was doing the math because I was honestly curious, and I was looking at picking up Carrion gear right when Dire gear was announced.

P/P condition build using Perplexity is all about delivering conditions to the target. Same could be said for P/D, simply trading Confusion for Torment.

Zumy.6318:

The bleeds rounded up to 6sek are good dps if you meet a player that actually knows how to play and does not spam like crazy with confu on him.

The poison is not and never will be for sheer dps. It is for healingreduction… And vs Metawarriors and Rangers or Eles, you will need it.

Never talking about baddies. Those you will make explode with this build.

I made an elementalist blow up literally last night. They road the lightning to me( interrupted), then that aura shield(interrupted), went into fire element and did that fire ring and straight line which i anticipated(interrupted) equipped spider venom, and poisoned them, when they switched to water, thats when they killed themself. But as i said I like the tip, I have tried sigil of agony for the extra bleed duration and considering the fact I rarely swap weapons it would be of no use. I win 8/10 of my fights roaming. So I think I know what i’m doing by now. 2.1k+ hours on this class. I better know.

Sherlock.1607:

AikijinX.6258:

xmtrcv.5236:

AikijinX.6258:

Build updated to Dire set.

Build link, perhaps? I am trying to understand why a pure Dire set would be advantageous over pure Carrion, or even a mix/match of both?

=\ I didn’t really want to go into that gw2 calculator. I’m so lazy.. But i will do it, just give me one moment, but to answer your question carrion if i am not mistaken deals condi/power/vit. While dire uses condi/ vitality/ toughness. If I was fighting a melee class who do you think would survive a bit longer, someone running carrion, or dire? My armor is at 2.9k w/ 19k hp. Condition damage doesn’t focus on power or precision.

Here you go: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAqaFmQ4e4UIVT59wBFLzqrQUB-jUCB4iCi0CBikGMTqIasl1FRjVJjIqW3AzYmIq2jATKgFlGB-w

-Note Hp pool isn’t 19k here due to World buffs.

You have rabid rings, earings…so there are not dire combo stats in the game? And what about the back item, where did you get it with dire combo, pls answer, I searched on google, asked everyone, nobody knows.

Yes that is what I wear, the dire/rabid earring a(Plagues idol, and vallog’s demise)- I will get the other Dire/Rabid earring (Matriach’s quill) next week, 2 dire/rabid rings(Vassars band and Ralena’s band), and Dire/Rabid Amulet(Symbol of the deceiver). And there isn’t a Dire spine guard out quite yet in game. So everything is pretty accurate. Right now I wear a back piece that grants 22 toughness/16 healing power/ +16 condition damage. I will be converting to Dire/rabid back piece when it appears.

I hope I answered your question in full

New Video up. All Credits to Coloxeus!

how are you applying so much confusion on them? the runes have a 20% with a 15sec cool down…. and daze is 1/4sec so you’d have to time it perfectly to get it to work… unless you do …. then i’m super impressed

bangaroo.6345:

how are you applying so much confusion on them? the runes have a 20% with a 15sec cool down…. and daze is 1/4sec so you’d have to time it perfectly to get it to work… unless you do …. then i’m super impressed

6th rune bonus: +15% Confusion duration. Causes 10 seconds of Confusion on interrupt.

Sleight of Hand can cause Interrupt.
Headshot can cause Interrupt.

bangaroo.6345:

how are you applying so much confusion on them? the runes have a 20% with a 15sec cool down…. and daze is 1/4sec so you’d have to time it perfectly to get it to work… unless you do …. then i’m super impressed

I am timing when I use my interrupts, but yes as soon as the initial attack hits me, I press my steal, which then applies 5-8 stacks on my opponent depending on a successful beginning interrupt. So with D/P it’s all about waiting. And just because you have low Health does not at all mean you give up. Just like how I turned a couple projected losing battles around to a win. You have access to many Proc’ed stealth’s and utility.

Fellow Thieves take a look at the build try it out for yourselves, let me know your feedback. Post on Coloxeus or my thread doesn’t matter.

Nah, i don’t like pistol mainhand.

Azraelle.1683:

Nah, i don’t like pistol mainhand.

It’s not that you don’t like it, it’s because you’re not used to it. You enjoy your big numbers. But it’s a new meta coming around the corner. Big numbers aren’t whats gonna do it anymore. Now that dire armor is in the mix. Condition Meta thieves are going to be appearing much more frequently.

AikijinX.6258:

Fellow Thieves take a look at the build try it out for yourselves, let me know your feedback. Post on Coloxeus or my thread doesn’t matter.

I like the build, and would like to try it out, but a bit modified.

I tend to roam with a P/D Thief friend of mine, and would like to expand the available utility and synergize with him a bit more; do you suppose that this might work out acceptably with S/P, and perhaps a 25/0/15/0/30 setup?

Idea behind DA would be to take the Steal thing a bit farther for Mug, Poison on-hit, and Lotus Poison. Also gives condition duration, and bonus autoattack damage while the conditions are on the target. Plus boon stealing, and a daze that has good DPS. My partner would be there for the bleeds and such.

Interceptor.2653:

AikijinX.6258:

Fellow Thieves take a look at the build try it out for yourselves, let me know your feedback. Post on Coloxeus or my thread doesn’t matter.

I like the build, and would like to try it out, but a bit modified.

I tend to roam with a P/D Thief friend of mine, and would like to expand the available utility and synergize with him a bit more; do you suppose that this might work out acceptably with S/P, and perhaps a 25/0/15/0/30 setup?

Idea behind DA would be to take the Steal thing a bit farther for Mug, Poison on-hit, and Lotus Poison. Also gives condition duration, and bonus autoattack damage while the conditions are on the target. Plus boon stealing, and a daze that has good DPS. My partner would be there for the bleeds and such.

So your partner would be there all the time roaming with you?? My friend i don’t believe it would be wise. The reason i went 0/0/30/10/30 was because I wasn’t relying on pure raw physical damage. My conditions were and are my burst damage dps. If you add Mug to steal, isn’t a very good choice. The reason i went 30 shadow arts was because of the Superb condition removal via- Shadow’s embrace/ Regeneration of hp in stealth via- Shadow rejuvenation/ and Hidden Thief(Stealth on steal). Now if you used mug trait, that would totally void out that trait if you were to devise a trait setup around hidden thief and mug. All of my traits have a purpose, they’r not just there just to be thrown in there. If you’d like I can explain each purpose for the specific trait.

Now note. S/P you’d only be interrupting once, while vulnerable and rooted in 1 spot. You can try to make it work, but I wouldn’t deem it quite viable.. With my build you are free to interrupt while moving, also not being in the danger of being rooted. You can disengage and engage freely.

If you find S/P is more viable, i would love to see some video action. People said P/P isn’t viable, but I broke that Myth, and did the impossible. Don’t let me decide whether or not you put down that set. Try to make it work!~

AikijinX.6258:

Interceptor.2653:

AikijinX.6258:

Fellow Thieves take a look at the build try it out for yourselves, let me know your feedback. Post on Coloxeus or my thread doesn’t matter.

I like the build, and would like to try it out, but a bit modified.

I tend to roam with a P/D Thief friend of mine, and would like to expand the available utility and synergize with him a bit more; do you suppose that this might work out acceptably with S/P, and perhaps a 25/0/15/0/30 setup?

Idea behind DA would be to take the Steal thing a bit farther for Mug, Poison on-hit, and Lotus Poison. Also gives condition duration, and bonus autoattack damage while the conditions are on the target. Plus boon stealing, and a daze that has good DPS. My partner would be there for the bleeds and such.

So your partner would be there all the time roaming with you?? My friend i don’t believe it would be wise. The reason i went 0/0/30/10/30 was because I wasn’t relying on pure raw physical damage. My conditions were and are my burst damage dps. If you add Mug to steal, isn’t a very good choice. The reason i went 30 shadow arts was because of the Superb condition removal via- Shadow’s embrace/ Regeneration of hp in stealth via- Shadow rejuvenation/ and Hidden Thief(Stealth on steal). Now if you used mug trait, that would totally void out that trait if you were to devise a trait setup around hidden thief and mug. All of my traits have a purpose, they’r not just there just to be thrown in there. If you’d like I can explain each purpose for the specific trait.

Now note. S/P you’d only be interrupting once, while vulnerable and rooted in 1 spot. You can try to make it work, but I wouldn’t deem it quite viable.. With my build you are free to interrupt while moving, also not being in the danger of being rooted. You can disengage and engage freely.

If you find S/P is more viable, i would love to see some video action. People said P/P isn’t viable, but I broke that Myth, and did the impossible. Don’t let me decide whether or not you put down that set. Try to make it work!~

Slowly crawling into top 150 eu, but it is still a progress (+100 yesterday)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N3X0ECYE-Q
S/P. build is in the thread.

dDuff.3860:

AikijinX.6258:

Interceptor.2653:

AikijinX.6258:

Fellow Thieves take a look at the build try it out for yourselves, let me know your feedback. Post on Coloxeus or my thread doesn’t matter.

I like the build, and would like to try it out, but a bit modified.

I tend to roam with a P/D Thief friend of mine, and would like to expand the available utility and synergize with him a bit more; do you suppose that this might work out acceptably with S/P, and perhaps a 25/0/15/0/30 setup?

Idea behind DA would be to take the Steal thing a bit farther for Mug, Poison on-hit, and Lotus Poison. Also gives condition duration, and bonus autoattack damage while the conditions are on the target. Plus boon stealing, and a daze that has good DPS. My partner would be there for the bleeds and such.

So your partner would be there all the time roaming with you?? My friend i don’t believe it would be wise. The reason i went 0/0/30/10/30 was because I wasn’t relying on pure raw physical damage. My conditions were and are my burst damage dps. If you add Mug to steal, isn’t a very good choice. The reason i went 30 shadow arts was because of the Superb condition removal via- Shadow’s embrace/ Regeneration of hp in stealth via- Shadow rejuvenation/ and Hidden Thief(Stealth on steal). Now if you used mug trait, that would totally void out that trait if you were to devise a trait setup around hidden thief and mug. All of my traits have a purpose, they’r not just there just to be thrown in there. If you’d like I can explain each purpose for the specific trait.

Now note. S/P you’d only be interrupting once, while vulnerable and rooted in 1 spot. You can try to make it work, but I wouldn’t deem it quite viable.. With my build you are free to interrupt while moving, also not being in the danger of being rooted. You can disengage and engage freely.

If you find S/P is more viable, i would love to see some video action. People said P/P isn’t viable, but I broke that Myth, and did the impossible. Don’t let me decide whether or not you put down that set. Try to make it work!~

Slowly crawling into top 150 eu, but it is still a progress (+100 yesterday)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N3X0ECYE-Q
S/P. build is in the thread.

Ehh.. Congrats on the ranking. Keep up the good work. Now with this build.. erm.. I wasn’t really too impressed.. to be honest my friend..

AikijinX.6258:

Azraelle.1683:

Nah, i don’t like pistol mainhand.

It’s not that you don’t like it, it’s because you’re not used to it. You enjoy your big numbers. But it’s a new meta coming around the corner. Big numbers aren’t whats gonna do it anymore. Now that dire armor is in the mix. Condition Meta thieves are going to be appearing much more frequently.

i agree ,
condition starting to take their place too, look what they did to the necro, engin
and they add the torment and confusion also thus making it more viable to use by other professions.
after playing d/d, d/p, s/d dmg dealer i want to tryout the condition mode
the p/d with torment do wonder with 9-11 stacks of torment which does 15k-20k dmg alone (why ppl havent scream op yet and pls dont)
but with confusion all shout because engin broke it

i like the idea of p/p and as you saw took it further with s/p+p/p

messiah.1908:

AikijinX.6258:

Azraelle.1683:

Nah, i don’t like pistol mainhand.

It’s not that you don’t like it, it’s because you’re not used to it. You enjoy your big numbers. But it’s a new meta coming around the corner. Big numbers aren’t whats gonna do it anymore. Now that dire armor is in the mix. Condition Meta thieves are going to be appearing much more frequently.

i agree ,
condition starting to take their place too, look what they did to the necro, engin
and they add the torment and confusion also thus making it more viable to use by other professions.
after playing d/d, d/p, s/d dmg dealer i want to tryout the condition mode
the p/d with torment do wonder with 9-11 stacks of torment which does 15k-20k dmg alone (why ppl havent scream op yet and pls dont)
but with confusion all shout because engin broke it

i like the idea of p/p and as you saw took it further with s/p+p/p

Well you cant stack that much torment unless you spam Shadow strike, and proc skale venom. So it’s not as OP as you may think =\. And Engineers, Warriors, and Thieves are the only ones primarily that benefit from this rune. Occasional Necromancers.. But it would just be another condition they have under their belt making them strong.. so not really too impressive.
-And thank you my friend, i love positive feedback. I have no problem with people taking the structure of my build and doing something completely different to suit them It’s all about how you play and if you are comfortable.

AikijinX.6258:

So your partner would be there all the time roaming with you?? My friend i don’t believe it would be wise. The reason i went 0/0/30/10/30 was because I wasn’t relying on pure raw physical damage. My conditions were and are my burst damage dps. If you add Mug to steal, isn’t a very good choice. The reason i went 30 shadow arts was because of the Superb condition removal via- Shadow’s embrace/ Regeneration of hp in stealth via- Shadow rejuvenation/ and Hidden Thief(Stealth on steal). Now if you used mug trait, that would totally void out that trait if you were to devise a trait setup around hidden thief and mug. All of my traits have a purpose, they’r not just there just to be thrown in there. If you’d like I can explain each purpose for the specific trait.

Now note. S/P you’d only be interrupting once, while vulnerable and rooted in 1 spot. You can try to make it work, but I wouldn’t deem it quite viable.. With my build you are free to interrupt while moving, also not being in the danger of being rooted. You can disengage and engage freely.

If you find S/P is more viable, i would love to see some video action. People said P/P isn’t viable, but I broke that Myth, and did the impossible. Don’t let me decide whether or not you put down that set. Try to make it work!~

Yes, I’d have my P/D partner roaming with me for the most part. He’s condition based, and uses the standard Cloak and Dagger into Sneak Attack bleed-stacking rotation. I’m looking to use a build that will work well with what he’s bringing.

For example, P/D isn’t exceptional at chasing, lacks interrupt capability, has no Blinds, can struggle with people who have good condition removal, etc. If I am S/P with Perplexity runes, basically everything that I bring is covering up a hole in his kit. I suppose that I could run S/D, for boon removal (and trait for Bountiful Theft), but I’m not comfortable with giving up Headshot until I play with it a bit.

Pistol Whip is actually pretty good. The stun is going to last around 0.75s with condition duration extenders, and you can move during the animation of the stun attack. During the follow-up slashes you are “rooted”, but you are also hitting a (hopefully) stunned target and auto-evading while slashing. In the worst case, you can interrupt the channel by moving; it’s not necessary to whiff thin air if they stun-break and escape. And as for damage, Pistol Whip blows Headshot out of the water, naturally. And you even have an 85%+ chance to proc the “on-hit” Confusion, since PW has nine hits. Only costs 1 init more, too.

So that’s basically my justification for it. I understand that it has less stealth time, but 15 SA is still enough for the condi removal (and Shadow Return from the 2-slot gives another option for that), Mug’s lifesteal can help replace the stealthed regen you lose, etc. I wouldn’t argue that’s it’s better than P/P for dueling, I just think it might work well for my situation.

Also considering throwing Skale on my bar, just to stick more conditions on there (one Steal equals four instant conditions: poison, weakness, vulnerability, torment, plus dazed). I figure that’ll help protect my Confusion stacks and my partner’s Bleeds.

What classes would you say give you the hardest time with this build AikijinX? I surmise necromancers would definitely be trouble since putting condi’s on them period is a gamble since they could heal or give them right back, but what’s your experience?

Well i did duel OP last night.

Just impossible to kill.

Of course his game play and experience has a lot to do with this. Also bought the runes and use his build, but not close enough to play as him

The thing is the timing, if you interrupt correctly the enemy is dead.

As OP said, the myth of the P/P not viable is broken.

Interceptor.2653:

AikijinX.6258:

So your partner would be there all the time roaming with you?? My friend i don’t believe it would be wise. The reason i went 0/0/30/10/30 was because I wasn’t relying on pure raw physical damage. My conditions were and are my burst damage dps. If you add Mug to steal, isn’t a very good choice. The reason i went 30 shadow arts was because of the Superb condition removal via- Shadow’s embrace/ Regeneration of hp in stealth via- Shadow rejuvenation/ and Hidden Thief(Stealth on steal). Now if you used mug trait, that would totally void out that trait if you were to devise a trait setup around hidden thief and mug. All of my traits have a purpose, they’r not just there just to be thrown in there. If you’d like I can explain each purpose for the specific trait.

Now note. S/P you’d only be interrupting once, while vulnerable and rooted in 1 spot. You can try to make it work, but I wouldn’t deem it quite viable.. With my build you are free to interrupt while moving, also not being in the danger of being rooted. You can disengage and engage freely.

If you find S/P is more viable, i would love to see some video action. People said P/P isn’t viable, but I broke that Myth, and did the impossible. Don’t let me decide whether or not you put down that set. Try to make it work!~

Yes, I’d have my P/D partner roaming with me for the most part. He’s condition based, and uses the standard Cloak and Dagger into Sneak Attack bleed-stacking rotation. I’m looking to use a build that will work well with what he’s bringing.

For example, P/D isn’t exceptional at chasing, lacks interrupt capability, has no Blinds, can struggle with people who have good condition removal, etc. If I am S/P with Perplexity runes, basically everything that I bring is covering up a hole in his kit. I suppose that I could run S/D, for boon removal (and trait for Bountiful Theft), but I’m not comfortable with giving up Headshot until I play with it a bit.

Pistol Whip is actually pretty good. The stun is going to last around 0.75s with condition duration extenders, and you can move during the animation of the stun attack. During the follow-up slashes you are “rooted”, but you are also hitting a (hopefully) stunned target and auto-evading while slashing. In the worst case, you can interrupt the channel by moving; it’s not necessary to whiff thin air if they stun-break and escape. And as for damage, Pistol Whip blows Headshot out of the water, naturally. And you even have an 85%+ chance to proc the “on-hit” Confusion, since PW has nine hits. Only costs 1 init more, too.

So that’s basically my justification for it. I understand that it has less stealth time, but 15 SA is still enough for the condi removal (and Shadow Return from the 2-slot gives another option for that), Mug’s lifesteal can help replace the stealthed regen you lose, etc. I wouldn’t argue that’s it’s better than P/P for dueling, I just think it might work well for my situation.

Also considering throwing Skale on my bar, just to stick more conditions on there (one Steal equals four instant conditions: poison, weakness, vulnerability, torment, plus dazed). I figure that’ll help protect my Confusion stacks and my partner’s Bleeds.

Well I have read your argument, and as I said before try to make it work. If that is how you are comfortable playing, and if you feel good about relying on your partner all the time rather than you doing it yourself, than that is just as fine. It’s just how you feel comfortable playing. ^^

RedSpectrum.1975:

What classes would you say give you the hardest time with this build AikijinX? I surmise necromancers would definitely be trouble since putting condi’s on them period is a gamble since they could heal or give them right back, but what’s your experience?

I find the most trouble I have are Necromancers, that obviously give me back my own conditions, and the stun lock warrior. All the other classes are fairly easy to slay. Occasionally and very rarely I will find a D/P thief that I won’t be able to take down because he sleeps and eats breakfast in stealth.

SoLeciTO.3490:

Well i did duel OP last night.

Just impossible to kill.

Of course his game play and experience has a lot to do with this. Also bought the runes and use his build, but not close enough to play as him

The thing is the timing, if you interrupt correctly the enemy is dead.

As OP said, the myth of the P/P not viable is broken.

Yeah I did enjoy our duels together my friend, The un-viable P/P myth has been broken.

AikijinX.6258:

Well I have read your argument, and as I said before try to make it work. If that is how you are comfortable playing, and if you feel good about relying on your partner all the time rather than you doing it yourself, than that is just as fine. It’s just how you feel comfortable playing. ^^

Yeah, basically it’s that solo play doesn’t interest me. If I’m by myself then I’m not roaming in WvW, I’m doing something else instead (farming, crafting, PvE, whatever). I’d run P/P if I were solo, but you won’t ever find me solo, so my preference is for a complementary spec instead. There’s no value in gearing myself for something that I have no intention of doing in the first place.

My partner relies on me as much as I do on him; that’s how good teams work.

If it doesn’t pan out, at least running your exact setup is guaranteed to work, despite the overlap, so that’s the fallback.

Interceptor.2653:

AikijinX.6258:

Well I have read your argument, and as I said before try to make it work. If that is how you are comfortable playing, and if you feel good about relying on your partner all the time rather than you doing it yourself, than that is just as fine. It’s just how you feel comfortable playing. ^^

Yeah, basically it’s that solo play doesn’t interest me. If I’m by myself then I’m not roaming in WvW, I’m doing something else instead (farming, crafting, PvE, whatever). I’d run P/P if I were solo, but you won’t ever find me solo, so my preference is for a complementary spec instead. There’s no value in gearing myself for something that I have no intention of doing in the first place.

My partner relies on me as much as I do on him; that’s how good teams work.

If it doesn’t pan out, at least running your exact setup is guaranteed to work, despite the overlap, so that’s the fallback.

Well I wish you the best of luck my friend :]

I will be working on a Chill and Fear build. I should have it ready by the next meta patch.

“I am timing when I use my interrupts, but yes as soon as the initial attack hits me, I press my steal, which then applies 5-8 stacks on my opponent depending on a successful beginning interrupt. So with D/P it’s all about waiting. And just because you have low Health does not at all mean you give up. Just like how I turned a couple projected losing battles around to a win. You have access to many Proc’ed stealth’s and utility.”

Can you explain this more clearly?

You interrupt something that has multiple attacks to get your 5-8 stacks?

animalmom.1062:

“I am timing when I use my interrupts, but yes as soon as the initial attack hits me, I press my steal, which then applies 5-8 stacks on my opponent depending on a successful beginning interrupt. So with D/P it’s all about waiting. And just because you have low Health does not at all mean you give up. Just like how I turned a couple projected losing battles around to a win. You have access to many Proc’ed stealth’s and utility.”

Can you explain this more clearly?

You interrupt something that has multiple attacks to get your 5-8 stacks?

For instance in the video when ever coloxeus backstabbed me, I automatically disappeared. 1. That was from my proc’d instinctual response via trickery tree. So when he continued his #1 chain i used my steal skill(interrupted his chain#1), and applied 5-8 stacks of confusion. I say 5 to 8 because 5 is the amount of confusion that is applied via 6th skill bonus on interrupt, 3 stacks of confusion are given via 4th skill bonus.(20% chance) So if my lucky was fine, then i’d apply 8 stacks, on his and my opener.