Guild Wars 2

Thieves are completely horrible at Fractals of the Mists levels 10 or higher. I just got out of another group that involved needing to constantly revive the thief. It is a complete waste of a team member slot. Personally, I think it is better to just kick the thief before we start.

Now I know some of you are probably good in FotM, but 95% of thieves are not. This class needs some serious help so that there are more than 5% of thieves that are somewhat decent at it.

As a thief i have no probs doin fotm. Tho i found that 95% of heavies sux so hard or just i had bad luck with randoms couse i need to ress em all the time. But i also do agree that i was playin with thief that was perma on the floor. Thats the beauty of playing witrh randoms :/

“Some” Thieves are completely horrible at FotM 10+. Just like portions of other classes are horrible at any dungeon. Admittedly, the portions are different per profession.

I’m hardly a professional, but I’m having no problems at 30+.

style.6173:

Thieves are completely horrible at Fractals of the Mists levels 10 or higher. I just got out of another group that involved needing to constantly revive the thief. It is a complete waste of a team member slot. Personally, I think it is better to just kick the thief before we start.

Now I know some of you are probably good in FotM, but 95% of thieves are not. This class needs some serious help so that there are more than 5% of thieves that are somewhat decent at it.

You really need to rethink your armor choices, your traits and your weapons. Essentially L2P, and stop running 3-4 signets.

Any class running full glass canon will be bad at FotM, specially thieves.

And thieves love to run glass canon.

You really need to rethink your armor choices, your traits and your weapons. Essentially L2P, and stop running 3-4 signets.[/quote]

Read before responding please. I wasn’t the thief. I was the one having to bring them back to life. It is a very common theme.

Thiefs are fine FoTM, but ATM Guardian’s make a lot of the encounters so much easier. I’ve been running groups with 3 Guardian’s total and we can cheese a lot of the fights.

He was probably using a glass canon wvw build. A condition thief with 20K hp is very useful, especially against certain events that stealth comes in handy.

Fletch.3572:

brunohstein.9038:

Any class running full glass canon will be bad at FotM, specially thieves.

And thieves love to run glass canon.

No more than 5 minutes ago I just read to go glass or go home(pretty much any class, not just thief) in higher fractals =|
I’m just gonna avoid higher fractals and be happy lol =D

That group must have gotten decimated >_>

I’m not saying DPS is bad in dungeons, but there should be more tanks than DPS, and most importantly, thieves should NOT be the glass cannons. Culling doesn’t work against npcs. You die the second you leave stealth. Warriors can remain glassy and have upwards of 20KHP, more than a tank thief. A good thief build for fractals is a P/D condition or D/D signet of malice healing build. Those are wonderful in fractals.

I’m up to level 31 on my thief and groups love me. The problem I think with thieves is too many think they can glass cannon AND melee. Thieves can melee up to about level 10 but then they’re just too squishy unless they’re playing bunker in which case they’re not being much damage or utility. Also, I see so few cannons using lifesteal food it pisses me off. Pisses me off even more when I see them using MF food and being downed or dead half the time.

Using P/P – SB, a 0 30 30 10 0 build, and berserker gear (for the most part) along with lifesteal food, I sustain my own life quite fine, do excellent DPS to single and multiple targets, and save refuge to get people who are taking too much damage off agro or to revive (which wouldn’t be needed if cannons would learn to be self sustaining).

The only difficulty I have is on cliffside in groups where people are afraid of the hammer so I have to step up. It’s hard to sustain life via food when swinging a slow hammer, getting vuln stacks, AND being in melee.

As others have said thieves “seem” to suck at higher level fractals because thieves like to run squishy glass cannon builds without a thought to the stats EVERY class needs to survive.

well, just because most of the thief player base sucks at fractals, it doesn’t necessarily mean there are no good ones that went over the 30+ barrier
yes, i feel inferior some way to other “tanky classes” but i think they can’t do good aoe dmg, i was soloing a fractal mob, while the other 4 guys was killing the other… it was a close tie :P
and no, i am not 1 shot material, i have more than 16k hp and more than 2.5k armor, i can melee bosses and can take a direct hit and not die horribly

The top end game fractal team is ZerkWarrior, ClericGuardian, ZerkNecro, ZerkValk Engineer, Zerk Thief.

So no, thieves don’t need a buff, you just need to find a good thief.

Fletch.3572:

No more than 5 minutes ago I just read to go glass or go home(pretty much any class, not just thief) in higher fractals =|
I’m just gonna avoid higher fractals and be happy lol =D

It is my understanding that in very high level fractals you will get 1-shotted by many foes, regardless of class or gear. At that point, the only defense that matters is your ability to dodge constantly, and defensive stats on gear is wasted.

We’re talking very high level (50+) fractals here, however. Throughout the 20s and 30s, you can still build enough defense to take a hit (it takes very little in the 20s, but a bit of investment in the 30s), so that class of strategies is still the dominant one – assuming you have a strong enough team.

If you’re rocking up in full zerker gear and with no Vit/Tough then it’s going to be challenging.

I have no issues with my thief as long as i stay mobile.

But my Thief is an EMT and is the one constantly reviving people. :o

31 Fractal currently. Not sure if there’s a point beyond Lv.30 Daily to go further. XD

Keep in mind that I am not saying ALL thieves are bad. Given that you are reading these boards, you are probably more dedicated and likely one of the top 5%. The issue is general pug thieves.

The thief is the hardest class to play in higher level fractals. My point is that unless you know a good thief, it is not worth taking a pug thief. I’d rather take a pug guardian or warrior anytime.

You can have an average player do ok in other classes. You cannot have an average player use thief.

And yet the most easy and overpowered in wvwvw – I wouldn’t expect much in the way of buffs anytime soon.

brunohstein.9038:

Any class running full glass canon will be bad at FotM, specially thieves.

And thieves love to run glass canon.

SOME thieves love to run GC builds…… Experienced thieves generally do not.

style.6173:

You really need to rethink your armor choices, your traits and your weapons. Essentially L2P, and stop running 3-4 signets.

Read before responding please. I wasn’t the thief. I was the one having to bring them back to life. It is a very common theme.

[/quote]

So your logic is; Some thieves are doing in a bad, a class I DON’T PLAY, so I’m going to come over and say they need buffs… INSTEAD of people needing to get better?

You are smart.

It’s not so much a question of “play” better. But more “build” better. You can be the most awesome glass cannon ever, but the moment you meet content that requires some defense, you are SoL. This applies to PvE and even moreso to PvP.

Adaneshade.2409:

It’s not so much a question of “play” better. But more “build” better. You can be the most awesome glass cannon ever, but the moment you meet content that requires some defense, you are SoL. This applies to PvE and even moreso to PvP.

So, knowing your class, knowing how to build and gear properly, and to adapt when the situations call for it?

IE: Getting better.

While this is true, most do not associate player ability with ability to build a strong character. They think of “skill” in the twitchy reactionary sense of first person shooters. Mostly due to the fact that they are copy/paste builds they found on some site rather than actually learning how to create a custom build.

For the record, though, I totally agree 100%.

The issues with thief in PvE is simple.

To be relatively on par with some other classes, you must constantly change your weapon sets, utilities, and traits before certain specific encounters. The process is a LOT slower because there’s no way to save trait/skill builds like there was in GW1 for example…and there’s no macro system allowing you to swap between armour, and weapon sets on the fly. So, everything must be done manually, and must become second nature to a thief’s playstyle if they wish to keep up with other classes’ effectiveness.

Thieves don’t specialize in ANYTHING as far as PvE goes. Sure, there’s SR to allow your group to sneak past some groups of mobs…but let’s be honest here. There’s ways for other classes to get AoE and self stealths already. So this isn’t a huge plus. Mobility to skip mob groups and put up a waypoint…sure, thieves can do that…but, so can other classes.

Contradictory to popular belief, thieves do NOT have that much DPS. They have BURST. Burst is not the same as DPS. When it comes to dungeons, most often single target burst is not as effective as DPS. This is HIGHLY noticeable in almost every single boss fight.

The best a thief can do DPS-wise is summon 3 thieves. That’s their comparable DPS to classes like warrior (for example). This DPS doesn’t last long either, and is especially cut short if the summoned thieves die in a single hit from a boss. Sad to say, but even a properly played and specced GUARDIAN does more DPS than a thief.

I personally play multiple classes, and I can safely admit that by far, thief is EXTREMELY weak and requires a lot more work compared to other classes when it comes to PvE.

I also admittedly believe that thief is the weakest in sPvP. The only difference is that most players in sPvP do not take the time to learn the thief’s mechanics, and how to counter it. So, they come off as “OP” to some. The class that a thief is most effective at killing, is another thief.

PS: This is my thief’s hero panel. Take note of the ridiculous number of gear present that I swap in and out. None of my other characters need to swap around this much gear.

Kurow.6973:

The issues with thief in PvE is simple.

To be relatively on par with some other classes, you must constantly change your weapon sets, utilities, and traits before certain specific encounters.

That’s all I needed to read to come to the conclusion that you have no idea what you’re talking about. EVERY class should/does this, so this is completely invalid.

Also Thieves don’t special in anything? Thieves are fail-safe class in dungeons. If someone screws up and gets down, guess who revives? Thieves. Stealth is also powerful skill in PvE and you need to utilize it a lot better.

Pro Tip: Get 10 in Shadow Arts + Master of Deception Adept Trait. Smoke Screen and Shadow Refuge. You’re welcome.

Jay.3284:

Kurow.6973:

The issues with thief in PvE is simple.

To be relatively on par with some other classes, you must constantly change your weapon sets, utilities, and traits before certain specific encounters.

That’s all I needed to read to come to the conclusion that you have no idea what you’re talking about. EVERY class should/does this, so this is completely invalid.

Also Thieves don’t special in anything? Thieves are fail-safe class in dungeons. If someone screws up and gets down, guess who revives? Thieves. Stealth is also powerful skill in PvE and you need to utilize it a lot better.

Pro Tip: Get 10 in Shadow Arts + Master of Deception Adept Trait. Smoke Screen and Shadow Refuge. You’re welcome.

I’m not even going to bother arguing with you considering what I said flew right over your head.

All I’m going to say is look up an item called “Ash Legion Spy Kit”.

Kurow.6973:

Jay.3284:

Kurow.6973:

The issues with thief in PvE is simple.

To be relatively on par with some other classes, you must constantly change your weapon sets, utilities, and traits before certain specific encounters.

That’s all I needed to read to come to the conclusion that you have no idea what you’re talking about. EVERY class should/does this, so this is completely invalid.

Also Thieves don’t special in anything? Thieves are fail-safe class in dungeons. If someone screws up and gets down, guess who revives? Thieves. Stealth is also powerful skill in PvE and you need to utilize it a lot better.

Pro Tip: Get 10 in Shadow Arts + Master of Deception Adept Trait. Smoke Screen and Shadow Refuge. You’re welcome.

I’m not even going to bother arguing with you considering what I said flew right over your head.

All I’m going to say is look up an item called “Ash Legion Spy Kit”.

Pretty sure that’s going to get removed in the coming months. Also I wasn’t aware you could move while using a Spy Kit, and it affected the whole team when you using one. And it also stealth’s the person you’re trying to revive. Didn’t know it could do all of that.

style.6173:

Thieves are completely horrible at Fractals of the Mists levels 10 or higher. I just got out of another group that involved needing to constantly revive the thief. It is a complete waste of a team member slot. Personally, I think it is better to just kick the thief before we start.

Now I know some of you are probably good in FotM, but 95% of thieves are not. This class needs some serious help so that there are more than 5% of thieves that are somewhat decent at it.

Don’t even mention kicking players because of their class. Dealt with that crap in Tera and if this community starts that kind of kitten, many a thieves will be kitten

Onto the topic:

My thief has 3 piece ascended, fractal level 18. I started fractals with a condition-blossom thief build till about 11. No problems. Switched to backstab build, and I do go down a bit more, and more weary of getting into the frey rather than shortbowing it all down.

I agree thieves need an adjustment to PVE damage, as it is definately lower compared to many classes. Survivability: Undecided. As a condition thief, I would steal-in. Drop caltrops/blossom x 3. Dodge out. And I wasnt afraid to do so. As a backstab thief, Im more vulnerable…

Adaneshade.2409:

brunohstein.9038:

Any class running full glass canon will be bad at FotM, specially thieves.

And thieves love to run glass canon.

SOME thieves love to run GC builds…… Experienced thieves generally do not.

True…….true

In the long run, D/D damage (Backstab chains) is roughly on par with the damage a Warrior puts out with one weapon set (either with Axes, or with a Greatsword and a very high crit chance), or a bit behind a Warrior that swaps between the two to maximize cooldowns (10-15% or so).

The primary advantage of running a Warrior over a Thief is that a Warrior is, in a lot of ways, nothing more than a gear check. Yes, you can play one better or worse, but if you have sufficient gear you can run up to everything and facetank it while dealing good damage. The disadvantage is that if you do not pass the gear check, you have less tools than any other class to adapt and finesse an encounter over your level.

Thief, on the other hand, has enormous difficulty facetanking anything, but has some of the very best tools to adapt and finesse an encounter.

I do agree that the Thief has to work a little too hard to keep up with a facetanking Warrior on damage against easy content, but when both classes are played anywhere near potential the power differences between the two disappear pretty quickly. Most players, including Thieves, are just terrible at the game and don’t even come close to taking advantage of all the tools the class has to offer.

Adaneshade.2409:

brunohstein.9038:

Any class running full glass canon will be bad at FotM, specially thieves.

And thieves love to run glass canon.

SOME thieves love to run GC builds…… Experienced thieves generally do not.

I’m a pretty experienced thief and I prefer GC for dungeons. solar and lunar rings, and karka accessory are the only pieces that give me any toughness or vitality. But then I switched to full ranged (p/p-sb) quite a while back. Higher damage output because of GC, more survivability because I’m ranged, more survivability because of the volume of hits with lifesteal food, more DPS because I don’t have to worry as much about dodging (as I would as a melee).

I do understand you said “generally”. Maybe I’m an exception to the rule.

Avigrus.2871:

If you’re rocking up in full zerker gear and with no Vit/Tough then it’s going to be challenging.

I have no issues with my thief as long as i stay mobile.

I am not running any sort of dungeon yet, I am level 30 and I have to agree my first 10 levels was easy, Then I started dying a lot, and almost got really mad and started yelling… then at about 20 I bought some better gear, I had level 5 boots at 21, and no upgraded gems in slots, so I spent about 3 silver, got better gear and started moving and running around more, switched to ranged on harder solo fights and consolidated my traits, I had them spread to thin, since then I rock it as long as I stay aware and mobile. People I think try to play the classes here like in other mmos that shall remain unnamed.