Guild Wars 2

I know, this may be beating a dead horse, but I feel it deserves more scrutiny.
Every class has some form of stomper skill. Thieves however need only hit cloack & dagger ONCE and BOOM, 5 secs of stealth – Well enough to stomp. What sits a bit wrong with me, and I suspect others as well, is that they can do it so frequently while the other classes have to fall back on lengthy cooldowns. Engineers have elixir S, Elementalists have mist form, Rangers have Fight together as one, etc. Thief though? One skills that has no CD whatsoever. They don’t even need to use a utility slot for it, unlike the rest of us.

So how does one interpret this? Should it just be considered a class feature? Does the thief really need class specific features like that, considering they are pretty strong already? I’m not so sure. What do you guys think?

It’s 3s of stealth, 4 if traited, not 5. Anyways you might as well count it as a meager class-feature not that it is particularly impactful. As a result of how thief durability, you can just nuke your team-mates body and the thief will then have to pop a utility like everybody else or be downed trying to stomp.

ensoriki.5789:

It’s 3s of stealth, 4 if traited, not 5. Anyways you might as well count it as a meager class-feature not that it is particularly impactful. As a result of how thief durability, you can just nuke your team-mates body and the thief will then have to pop a utility like everybody else or be downed trying to stomp.

Nukes that could have won another fight around the corner, nice…

well, we may be able to do it more often, but we are also more vulnerable while we do it. it is simply less powerful than stability and invuln stomps. things like the guardian down ability for instance still work on us while doing a stealth stomp. also, we may be invisible but most thieves are burst thieves and therefore quite squishy. any attacks on where we obviously are when we try it can quite often end with a downed thief showing up 3-4 seconds later instead of a dead ally. also, in the next major patch they have claimed that they will make it so that exiting stealth in any way will give revealed, so we will be vulnerable after doing it. also, CnD is 6 initiative, which is half of our base resource pool. even if traited to refund 2 initiative on stealth it is still 1/3 of it. we are burning potential damage, utility, or mobility for the security to stomp without a near certain chance of death in a group fight.

Gungnir Grimm.7123:

well, we may be able to do it more often, but we are also more vulnerable while we do it. it is simply less powerful than stability and invuln stomps. things like the guardian down ability for instance still work on us while doing a stealth stomp. also, we may be invisible but most thieves are burst thieves and therefore quite squishy. any attacks on where we obviously are when we try it can quite often end with a downed thief showing up 3-4 seconds later instead of a dead ally. also, in the next major patch they have claimed that they will make it so that exiting stealth in any way will give revealed, so we will be vulnerable after doing it. also, CnD is 6 initiative, which is half of our base resource pool. even if traited to refund 2 initiative on stealth it is still 1/3 of it. we are burning potential damage, utility, or mobility for the security to stomp without a near certain chance of death in a group fight.

In other words, you won’t be able to hit C&D, heal up, hit it right away again, repeat? Well, good thing that I had my fun with this while it lasted.

Oxstar.7643:

ensoriki.5789:

It’s 3s of stealth, 4 if traited, not 5. Anyways you might as well count it as a meager class-feature not that it is particularly impactful. As a result of how thief durability, you can just nuke your team-mates body and the thief will then have to pop a utility like everybody else or be downed trying to stomp.

Nukes that could have won another fight around the corner, nice…

Is that supposed to be a point?
You are attempting to save your teammate.
Or are you upset that you’re not getting away with just auto attacking the thief?

I could save my skills to save my teammate and go at this other fight.
Or I could save them, which allows them to be available for the fight around the corner.
It’s the same thing as if an Ele Mist-forms or an Engi elixers. They mist form your guy dies unless you quick rev or stealth him. Either of which requires a skill to be utilized.
If it bothers you to use your skill-bar to protect someone, I don’t know what to say to you, that is honestly a mind-boggling poor way to counter-argument.
“I had to use the skills on my skillbar!”

Thieves are stomping people?!

NERF IT

Oxstar.7643:

I know, this may be beating a dead horse, but I feel it deserves more scrutiny.
Every class has some form of stomper skill. Thieves however need only hit cloack & dagger ONCE and BOOM, 5 secs of stealth – Well enough to stomp. What sits a bit wrong with me, and I suspect others as well, is that they can do it so frequently while the other classes have to fall back on lengthy cooldowns. Engineers have elixir S, Elementalists have mist form, Rangers have Fight together as one, etc. Thief though? One skills that has no CD whatsoever. They don’t even need to use a utility slot for it, unlike the rest of us.

So how does one interpret this? Should it just be considered a class feature? Does the thief really need class specific features like that, considering they are pretty strong already? I’m not so sure. What do you guys think?

Solution to your problem. Don’t go down!

Please take your ignorance to another forum and start a pity party post with like minded people

CnD is not a free non cooldown stealth, it takes half a thief’s base initiative and when empty it doesn’t just stop them using CnD but ANY of their weapon attacks, that would be like when you one of your weapon cooldowns it puts other ones in cooldown also.

And if your reluctant to use skills to prevent someone being stomped how does it differ if its because the thief is stealthed compared to the other myriad of ways to stomp (including just plain old stomping with no fancyness)

Oxstar.7643:

ensoriki.5789:

It’s 3s of stealth, 4 if traited, not 5. Anyways you might as well count it as a meager class-feature not that it is particularly impactful. As a result of how thief durability, you can just nuke your team-mates body and the thief will then have to pop a utility like everybody else or be downed trying to stomp.

Nukes that could have won another fight around the corner, nice…

Because winning against the stomping thief doesn’t count, right? That should come for free…

ITT: “Nerf Paper, Scissors is fine.”

- Sincerely,
Rock

Darkjoy.3092:

Please take your ignorance to another forum and start a pity party post with like minded people

You just want a hug, don’t you? =)

One thing you’re not paying attention to is that the CD-based stomps are IMPOSSIBLE to prevent. You have NO ability to stop Mist Form when it’s used. Same with Elixir S, or Endure Pain + Balanced Stance, or Distortion. You’re SOL if any of them activate. Not with stealth stomps. You can throw your AoE damage and your control skills at the immediate vicinity of your ally and the Thief will either die or back off. Heck, the downed skills by Ranger and Guardian etc will still stop Thieves and potentially get them killed when the stealth runs out without the stomp and teammates grab hold of him, but none of the other methods already mentioned are even mildly slowed down by such skills.

TLDR, stealth stomping is actually inferior in any environment where players have their heads screwed on, so any complaining is invalid.

Oxstar.7643:

ensoriki.5789:

It’s 3s of stealth, 4 if traited, not 5. Anyways you might as well count it as a meager class-feature not that it is particularly impactful. As a result of how thief durability, you can just nuke your team-mates body and the thief will then have to pop a utility like everybody else or be downed trying to stomp.

Nukes that could have won another fight around the corner, nice…

Yeah, God forbid you should have to defend your teammate.
I know when I see a Warrior or Engineer trying to stomp someone, I’m just like “Whatever, he can totally take care of himself.”

Why is it that almost only non-thief players keep ranting about the class on the forum? We’ve got neither access to stability nor to invulnerability, no second life bar, no clones, no access to (massivly) block, no knockdowns, we can’t rally ourselves blablabla, yet people still whine about us. Invisibility doesnt mean we’re invulnerable or not there at all, if you can’t handle it, reroll a thief. Seriously its mostly bad players complaining in here and whats even more funny, is that they don’t even whine about d/p stealth spam, which is probably the only thing I consider OP – perma blind + stealthed needs to go, thats it. We’re a burst class by design, able to take out players fast, if they don’t pay attention, if you don’t like that design, move to another game. Now go troll yourself.

laquito.5269:

Why is it that almost only non-thief players keep ranting about the class on the forum? We’ve got neither access to stability nor to invulnerability, no second life bar, no clones, no access to (massivly) block, no knockdowns, we can’t rally ourselves blablabla, yet people still whine about us. Invisibility doesnt mean we’re invulnerable or not there at all, if you can’t handle it, reroll a thief. Seriously its mostly bad players complaining in here and whats even more funny, is that they don’t even whine about d/p stealth spam, which is probably the only thing I consider OP – perma blind + stealthed needs to go, thats it. We’re a burst class by design, able to take out players fast, if they don’t pay attention, if you don’t like that design, move to another game. Now go troll yourself.

I’ve been saying this since release.
They can’t see the stomp coming, so they think it’s overpowered- yet completely kittening ignore stomps’ (stability/mist/elixir s) that you CAN’T stop. Period.

Yeah. Nurf t3h Theivf plz Anetz.

In PvP, stealth stomping is rly useful. In WvW however (since that’s where your complaints are coming from) just having an attentive party will stop a thief from stomping you.
As a thief myself I’d just stealth my party member or just throw a blind guess daze attack on where the thief should be. Dazing is prolly a great way of stopping enemies from finishing an ally or healing up his friend.

PS: i’m your GL, stand down ox! .. :P

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Stealth-finishers-need-to-go/page/2#post1678411

That thread is 2 pages long, and this “issue” was already discussed ad nauseum there.

Reading is awesome.

thieves don’t need to do this they can just press 2,2 and their out there is more ways to kill a downed player than just “finish him”.

Oxstar.7643:

Darkjoy.3092:

Please take your ignorance to another forum and start a pity party post with like minded people

You just want a hug, don’t you? =)

Coincidentally, you want your hand held.

See? Snark works both ways.

Aervius.2016:

laquito.5269:

Why is it that almost only non-thief players keep ranting about the class on the forum? We’ve got neither access to stability nor to invulnerability, no second life bar, no clones, no access to (massivly) block, no knockdowns, we can’t rally ourselves blablabla, yet people still whine about us. Invisibility doesnt mean we’re invulnerable or not there at all, if you can’t handle it, reroll a thief. Seriously its mostly bad players complaining in here and whats even more funny, is that they don’t even whine about d/p stealth spam, which is probably the only thing I consider OP – perma blind + stealthed needs to go, thats it. We’re a burst class by design, able to take out players fast, if they don’t pay attention, if you don’t like that design, move to another game. Now go troll yourself.

I’ve been saying this since release.
They can’t see the stomp coming, so they think it’s overpowered- yet completely kittening ignore stomps’ (stability/mist/elixir s) that you CAN’T stop. Period.

Yeah. Nurf t3h Theivf plz Anetz.

So you really CANT stop invul/stealthstomps? Really?
There is a tool to do so. Guess what it is. Its actually pretty funny that you dont know it.

OMG fanbois.

1. On all forums about GW2 in all languages this game is released, people complain about this stupid class. Every 3rd thiefplayer admit that this is maybe the most broken class in history of MMO-gaming.

2. 95% of all people i know who played the game moved, and ~80% Of people i knew through the game moved. About 50% of them did it because of the horrible balance and stealth issue. A good friend of me laughed as he encountered the permastealth crap. No he didnt complain at all, he just deinstalled the game.

Kontrolle.3514:

95% of all people i know who played the game moved, and ~80% Of people i knew through the game moved. About 50% of them did it because of the horrible balance and stealth issue.

I wonder how you fractionalized yourself in such a manner.

Darkjoy.3092:

Please take your ignorance to another forum and start a pity party post with like minded people

Heck, there are some on the front page already.

Kontrolle.3514:

So you really CANT stop invul/stealthstomps? Really?
There is a tool to do so. Guess what it is. Its actually pretty funny that you dont know it.

OMG fanbois.

1. On all forums about GW2 in all languages this game is released, people complain about this stupid class. Every 3rd thiefplayer admit that this is maybe the most broken class in history of MMO-gaming.

2. 95% of all people i know who played the game moved, and ~80% Of people i knew through the game moved. About 50% of them did it because of the horrible balance and stealth issue. A good friend of me laughed as he encountered the permastealth crap. No he didnt complain at all, he just deinstalled the game.

I couldn’t care less about your fancy statistics, seriously it’s not like you provide any credibility through it. You want us to have no stealth stomp? Fine then disallow invul stomps, stability stomps etc either and let us thieves finish people twice as fast, cuz we’re assassins after all, sounds reasonable eh? You don’t seem to get that stealth is the only way to mitigate damage as a thief, we ain’t got boons to protect us. A perma focused thief is probably the squishiest class in the game.

On a sidenode: I even said d/p – the build your friend tried – is OP, because it’s perma blind & stealth so quit the whine, thats the only build that needs fixing, rest is perfectly fine. People just call out for nerfs, because they’re unable to adapt.

Oxstar.7643:

I know, this may be beating a dead horse, but I feel it deserves more scrutiny.
Every class has some form of stomper skill. Thieves however need only hit cloack & dagger ONCE and BOOM, 5 secs of stealth – Well enough to stomp. What sits a bit wrong with me, and I suspect others as well, is that they can do it so frequently while the other classes have to fall back on lengthy cooldowns. Engineers have elixir S, Elementalists have mist form, Rangers have Fight together as one, etc. Thief though? One skills that has no CD whatsoever. They don’t even need to use a utility slot for it, unlike the rest of us.

So how does one interpret this? Should it just be considered a class feature? Does the thief really need class specific features like that, considering they are pretty strong already? I’m not so sure. What do you guys think?

Strong in damage, not in defense, you cannot compare the same way you do other classes. Its completely other defense mechanic and on top of that a thief (medium armor) probably can take less than light armor wearers.

On top of that thers initiative and immunity to the cloak & dagger which means its not endlessly spammable, and needs timing and thus a certain amount of focus/skill to do it right. Immunity (activating 2 soon) will result in losing 5 initiative and getting nothing in return.

laquito.5269:

You want us to have no stealth stomp? Fine then disallow invul stomps, stability stomps etc either

Okay.

laquito.5269:

and let us thieves finish people twice as fast, cuz we’re assassins after all, sounds reasonable eh?

No.

Problem with stealth stomp is that it is almost a 0 cooldown. One C&D is all it takes. With other stomps like invul/haste/stability they are mostly on a >30sec cooldown using a utility. The exception being a ranger with zephyr’s speed. But since there is 1 Ranger to every 10 Thieves you don’t encounter that as much.

Kontrolle.3514:

Aervius.2016:

laquito.5269:

Why is it that almost only non-thief players keep ranting about the class on the forum? We’ve got neither access to stability nor to invulnerability, no second life bar, no clones, no access to (massivly) block, no knockdowns, we can’t rally ourselves blablabla, yet people still whine about us. Invisibility doesnt mean we’re invulnerable or not there at all, if you can’t handle it, reroll a thief. Seriously its mostly bad players complaining in here and whats even more funny, is that they don’t even whine about d/p stealth spam, which is probably the only thing I consider OP – perma blind + stealthed needs to go, thats it. We’re a burst class by design, able to take out players fast, if they don’t pay attention, if you don’t like that design, move to another game. Now go troll yourself.

I’ve been saying this since release.
They can’t see the stomp coming, so they think it’s overpowered- yet completely kittening ignore stomps’ (stability/mist/elixir s) that you CAN’T stop. Period.

Yeah. Nurf t3h Theivf plz Anetz.

So you really CANT stop invul/stealthstomps? Really?
There is a tool to do so. Guess what it is. Its actually pretty funny that you dont know it.

I never said you couldn’t stop Stealth Stomps, it’s actually pretty funny that you can’t read.

Please educate me how you prevent/interrupt an Invulnerability Finisher when no control effect / attack will land on invulnerable (Mist Form)/evading (Elixir S) targets.

Go ahead. I’ll wait, and while I do I’ll politely point out that 99.832% of all statistics used in conversation are made up on the spot.

Moddo.7105:

Problem with stealth stomp is that it is almost a 0 cooldown. One C&D is all it takes. With other stomps like invul/haste/stability they are mostly on a >30sec cooldown using a utility. The exception being a ranger with zephyr’s speed. But since there is 1 Ranger to every 10 Thieves you don’t encounter that as much.

If you put up a good fight, what makes you think we have that 6 init to cast it? And it’s ok that there is something vastly more OP cause there are less of them?

lol.

Oxstar.7643:

ensoriki.5789:

It’s 3s of stealth, 4 if traited, not 5. Anyways you might as well count it as a meager class-feature not that it is particularly impactful. As a result of how thief durability, you can just nuke your team-mates body and the thief will then have to pop a utility like everybody else or be downed trying to stomp.

Nukes that could have won another fight around the corner, nice…

Thats too bad. Just don’t get downed, nooblet. Man, I love stealth stomp so much simply because I know noobs cry about it.
The thing is, stealth stomp can be countered. Distortion, Elixir, or Mist Form stomp have no counters, which is fine too because they have longer cool downs.
Shadowstep-stealth stomp is also very hard to counter, but has 50s cool down.

ps. to counter ANY stomper in WvW, just start ressing. You can often res faster than he can stomp.

Heh. Black Powder Stomp is every bit as accessible as Stealth Stomp, and way more powerful then Stealth Stomp yet no one complains about it.

laquito.5269:

Why is it that almost only non-thief players keep ranting about the class on the forum? We’ve got neither access to stability nor to invulnerability, no second life bar, no clones, no access to (massivly) block, no knockdowns, we can’t rally ourselves blablabla, yet people still whine about us. Invisibility doesnt mean we’re invulnerable or not there at all, if you can’t handle it, reroll a thief. Seriously its mostly bad players complaining in here and whats even more funny, is that they don’t even whine about d/p stealth spam, which is probably the only thing I consider OP – perma blind + stealthed needs to go, thats it. We’re a burst class by design, able to take out players fast, if they don’t pay attention, if you don’t like that design, move to another game. Now go troll yourself.

We do have knockdowns :p

Iove.3902:

laquito.5269:

Why is it that almost only non-thief players keep ranting about the class on the forum? We’ve got neither access to stability nor to invulnerability, no second life bar, no clones, no access to (massivly) block, no knockdowns, we can’t rally ourselves blablabla, yet people still whine about us. Invisibility doesnt mean we’re invulnerable or not there at all, if you can’t handle it, reroll a thief. Seriously its mostly bad players complaining in here and whats even more funny, is that they don’t even whine about d/p stealth spam, which is probably the only thing I consider OP – perma blind + stealthed needs to go, thats it. We’re a burst class by design, able to take out players fast, if they don’t pay attention, if you don’t like that design, move to another game. Now go troll yourself.

We do have knockdowns :p

We have one Pull.

Dual.8953:

Heh. Black Powder Stomp is every bit as accessible as Stealth Stomp, and way more powerful then Stealth Stomp yet no one complains about it.

thats because its not stealth, everyone knows stealth is instant invincibility and allows you to instant kill an entire zerg and lasts for 6 days.

I throw houses on people just to stealth stomp them when I don’t really need to. Why? Because I suppose I’m a troll at heart and threads like this crack me up.

It is odd though even in my super powered fortress of solitude house people still sometimes stop the stomp. It is almost like some people know what they are doing.

If you are alone you will get stomped by your opponent anyway, stealth or not.

If you are 1vX against the thief, your mates are just bad. No sane thief would try to stomp you if you have some ppl around you that can actually do damage since he would suffer too much damage. Blame your people, not the thief. If I can stop another thief with auto attacks from stomping my mates, so can yours.

If it’s a small group against a small group, like 2v2 or 3v3, you won’t really get up anyway unless you have a thief to cast SR on you and heal you. It’s just too intense.

In a big (most likely WvW) fight you’ll just die anyway unless you are an elementalist that can just vapor form out of the way.

Stealth Stomp is a class mechanic. We are fragile, we don’t have huge ranged damage, epic PBAoE or heavy armor. If we want to take you down in a group, we are risking our lives. Never seen a QQ thread about teleport/portal/stealth finishers on mesmer forums. Believe me, they can do it better than us.

/thread