Guild Wars 2

My first character was a thief, leveled him to 30, and then abandoned him. My main is a guardian, and my first alt is an engie. Every time I entered WvW, I absolutely dreaded fighting thieves. I couldn’t out damage them as an engie, and I couldn’t out speed them as a guardian. Every other class, I had some sort of strategy to, but the thieves, I just couldn’t get down.

And then I decided to get that 30 thief to 80. From then on, my perception of thieves changed. They are annoying as absolute hell, I will agree with that. But they are in absolutely NO WAY OP.

The reason they are annoying is obvious – They have an extreme amount of mobility. They can get to you and get away incredibly quickly. I have no experience with high spike thieves, and I can only speak for condition thieves, but yes, I will agree that our speed and stealth is an extreme annoyance. However, that IS our class. We’re thieves. Just the word “thief” means speed and stealth.

The reason people think they are “OP” is because they don’t know how to handle a thief. As a thief with full exotics, I absolutely fear going into zergs of 3 or more. Not because of the damage. The damage is an issue, but the main reason I get nervous in big groups is because one of those players will pull out a stun, cripple, or an ability to knock me out of my stealth.

Thieves are an incredibly fragile class. People want them nerfed, but what those people do not realize is that if you take away our spike damage, we are extremely crippled. Thieves need to get in and get out quickly, as even with high vitality, we cannot survive long fights. If our mobility is nerfed, however, our class is virtually useless. We run away because we have to. Most view it as an act of cowardice to stealth and run, but the fact is that if we run away, we don’t die and you don’t die. And EVERY player, regardless of class, is going to try to run once they get on low health. We’re just better at it. That is what our class is GOOD at, just like other classes have things they are good at. There is a reason why most dungeons don’t want thieves – We have troubles surviving.

Want to combat a thief? Look at what your skills do. Every class has something that can combat a thief. We’re a tough class to nail down a strategy for, but we are an extremely fragile class. Especially glass cannon thieves. Take away high dps thieves’ speed, and the class is useless.

tl;dr: Thieves are in no way OP. They are EXTREMELY annoying, I will agree. But if you learn how to actually combat them, they aren’t as extreme of an issue

OptimistPrime.9283:

Want to combat a thief? Look at what your skills do. Every class has something that can combat a thief. .

Which class gets the “See Stealth” skill?

Albane.8367:

OptimistPrime.9283:

Want to combat a thief? Look at what your skills do. Every class has something that can combat a thief. .

Which class gets the “See Stealth” skill?

You don’t need to see the stealth, but prevent the stealth. AOE, bouncing us out of our refuge. Those 3 seconds of having to stay in a small circle are literally the longest few seconds of a thief’s life

People need to learn to dodge CnD.

I find it easier to fight in zergs because there is always some noob standing still and easy to hit a CnD off.

Missing a CnD can be a deal breaker.

As guardian, engi, or anything really, the biggest thing to do against thief is not let him stealth. Avoid his CnD…

swinsk.6410:

People need to learn to dodge CnD.

I find it easier to fight in zergs because there is always some noob standing still and easy to hit a CnD off.

Missing a CnD can be a deal breaker.

As guardian, engi, or anything really, the biggest thing to do against thief is not let him stealth. Avoid his CnD…

I agree whole-heartedly

I agree, people don’t understand that what they really need is a CC ability. Think about a hammer warrior with leg-specialist trait on: 2 immobilize, 2 stuns, 1 knockback and heavy damage → thief is dead.

D/D ele → 3 seconds of stun with #5 air, 2 seconds of knockdown with #4 of earth and stuns whenever hit with the #3 of air.

Albane.8367:

OptimistPrime.9283:

Want to combat a thief? Look at what your skills do. Every class has something that can combat a thief. .

Which class gets the “See Stealth” skill?

Guardian, Necro, Ranger, and everyone else with an auto attack chain.

OptimistPrime.9283:

tl;dr: Thieves are in no way OP. They are EXTREMELY annoying, I will agree. But if you learn how to actually combat them, they aren’t as extreme of an issue

Near constant stealth, high mobility, insane burst, spammable range + gap closers, multiple get out of jail free escapes.

Yeah so not overpowered……

Thief are and were actually UP in several ways, and since they nerfed all the powerful stuff everyone was flocking to before fixing the broken stuff it’s causing a lot of problems for the prof overall. You can still be successful but I’m still looking at all these skills and traits that just aren’t useful and the lack of diversity that you see with other classes, like Warrior. Builds mostly revolving around 1-2 weapon skills since everything from all build types is crammed into our very limited weapon selection.

tagnut.8621:

OptimistPrime.9283:

tl;dr: Thieves are in no way OP. They are EXTREMELY annoying, I will agree. But if you learn how to actually combat them, they aren’t as extreme of an issue

Near constant stealth, high mobility, insane burst, spammable range + gap closers, multiple get out of jail free escapes.

Yeah so not overpowered……

Let’s see here…

Near constant stealth? If you let them hit you.

High mobility? Yes, kind of the point of the class. Do you complain about Guardians having high defense?

Insane burst? On one skill sure, but if you spec for this you die to every other random pbAoE.

Spammable gap closers and “get out free” cards? One or the other, ever heard of initiative? Guardians can close a huge distance also.

I’ll tell you other thieves the same thing I tell to every other class that QQs about being bursted down….get some toughness, glass cannons have no meaningful place in PvP.

Adaneshade.2409:

I’ll tell you other thieves the same thing I tell to every other class that QQs about being bursted down….get some toughness, glass cannons have no meaningful place in PvP.

We aren’t QQing.

Adaneshade.2409:

I’ll tell you other thieves the same thing I tell to every other class that QQs about being bursted down….get some toughness, glass cannons have no meaningful place in PvP.

I keep seeing this ridiculous thing posted in a counter argument from Pro thieves. Are you guys so blinkered that you think EVERY player who makes a negative comment about thieves is glass canon? Absolutely ALL my characters that I do any meaningful PvP with are toughness geared…why? Thieves. Especially in WvW, I’m still amazed at how much damage they can pump out.

My tank / bunker Mesmer took 18k damage from a thief yesterday who did BS → HS spam in about the space of 4-5 seconds, balanced? “Well learn to dodge” you says, well I managed to doge one HS before he auto-homed back onto me with the final HS hitting for about 5.6k. Even managed to spike through the condition stacks I jammed on him. People are still complaining about thieves for a reason, honestly I would rather talk about another profession but when WvW / tPvP is riddled with thieves, it’s hard to avoid the topic.

I think the most annoying thing about thieves is how little amount of effort needs to be put into the profession to be decent enough at PvP to wreck a target in 5 seconds with 3-5 moves. I know the vast majority of thieves just mash the 2 button and think they are pro.

Loco.4561:

Adaneshade.2409:

I’ll tell you other thieves the same thing I tell to every other class that QQs about being bursted down….get some toughness, glass cannons have no meaningful place in PvP.

I keep seeing this ridiculous thing posted in a counter argument from Pro thieves. Are you guys so blinkered that you think EVERY player who makes a negative comment about thieves is glass canon? Absolutely ALL my characters that I do any meaningful PvP with are toughness geared…why? Thieves. Especially in WvW, I’m still amazed at how much damage they can pump out.

My tank / bunker Mesmer took 18k damage from a thief yesterday who did BS -> HS spam in about the space of 4-5 seconds, balanced? “Well learn to dodge” you says, well I managed to doge one HS before he auto-homed back onto me with the final HS hitting for about 5.6k. Even managed to spike through the condition stacks I jammed on him. People are still complaining about thieves for a reason, honestly I would rather talk about another profession but when WvW / tPvP is riddled with thieves, it’s hard to avoid the topic.

I think the most annoying thing about thieves is how little amount of effort needs to be put into the profession to be decent enough at PvP to wreck a target in 5 seconds with 3-5 moves. I know the vast majority of thieves just mash the 2 button and think they are pro.

You honestly think it is little effort? That is complete ignorance.

Thieves require constant thinking, and situational awareness. Just because you think all we do is mash two, doesn’t mean you know anything about the class.

I personally use 9 out of 10 of my skills almost constantly. The only one I don’t use as often is Disabling Shot, and I really should use that more often.

And that is completely ignoring the fact that thieves have to be CONSTANTLY moving. A thief who isn’t moving is dying.

I just use heartseeker.

Adaneshade.2409:

I’ll tell you other thieves the same thing I tell to every other class that QQs about being bursted down….get some toughness, glass cannons have no meaningful place in PvP.

You think toughness is the answer? Any glass cannon can blow through toughness with ease no matter how high it is. If anything you won’t be 2shotted instead…you’ll be 3shotted. Don’t believe me Adaneshade.2409? try it out yourself and see if I’m lying here. I guarantee you’ll be disappointed being 3shotted by glass cannon even having over 3k armor.

i play my thief atm and
thief is not Overpowered
stealth make him overpowered
the ability to leave an combat vs 1 enemy or vs 5 or vs 30
the ability to enter in an tower and defend it when 30 enemy’s guard the dor
and is even more overpowered on P/D build where you are ranged and 80% of the time stealthed.
If A-net will change stealth with some extra evades stability /regeneration /armor or protection and leave 1 /2 stealth skills to thief they will be more balanced, and more viable in pve as well

I think the word people are looking for is “frustrating”, not Overpowered. I don’t think thieves are OP, in fact, I own almost all of them(well, TBH, I’m a thief as well, take that as you will). Notice how in spvp, thieves are no real problem, yet so many people complain in WvW. Why?

1)There’s room to run. Isn’t much space to escape in Spvp and it’s smaller maps
2) Gear and level differences. A lot of reasons why people are complaining is that the thief mostly outgears/outlevels them
3)Culling
4)Lack of situational awareness. Thieves rarely approach from behind in stealth. This is coming from hundreds of hours of WvW. They don’t, or at least I’ve never experienced a “truly” invisible. The only invisibility from most BS thieves is the CnD required for the combo, and paired with culling, it really does seem like an invisible thief to most people.

I think the main reason why people think thieves are so frustrating is because it’s a class that plays mind games. Just like the mesmer, thief relies on the ability to trick and fool your opponents(well, minus the BS build). That’s why those are perhaps the two most hated classes in the game. People are simple. They don’t like having mind games and tricks played on them. They just want to slash and slash, end up becoming impatient and lose.

Brutalistik.6473:

Adaneshade.2409:

I’ll tell you other thieves the same thing I tell to every other class that QQs about being bursted down….get some toughness, glass cannons have no meaningful place in PvP.

You think toughness is the answer? Any glass cannon can blow through toughness with ease no matter how high it is. If anything you won’t be 2shotted instead…you’ll be 3shotted. Don’t believe me Adaneshade.2409? try it out yourself and see if I’m lying here. I guarantee you’ll be disappointed being 3shotted by glass cannon even having over 3k armor.

Have over 3k armor, never get 3 shot by anything. not even close. Either you’re outright lying, or just trying to troll.

PS – As a side note, maybe you should actually read someones post before going all nerd rage on them. I was poking fun at a thief, of all classes, complaining about dying to burst.

Oh, and if I can get over 3k armor rating on a THIEF no other class aside maybe the ele can complain.

Adaneshade.2409:

Brutalistik.6473:

Adaneshade.2409:

I’ll tell you other thieves the same thing I tell to every other class that QQs about being bursted down….get some toughness, glass cannons have no meaningful place in PvP.

You think toughness is the answer? Any glass cannon can blow through toughness with ease no matter how high it is. If anything you won’t be 2shotted instead…you’ll be 3shotted. Don’t believe me Adaneshade.2409? try it out yourself and see if I’m lying here. I guarantee you’ll be disappointed being 3shotted by glass cannon even having over 3k armor.

Have over 3k armor, never get 3 shot by anything. not even close. Either you’re outright lying, or just trying to troll.

PS – As a side note, maybe you should actually read someones post before going all nerd rage on them. I was poking fun at a thief, of all classes, complaining about dying to burst.

That’s not trolling man…that’s pure facts and maybe you should try it out before thinking toughness is the solution to counter glass cannons. This isn’t World of Warcraft buddy if you think toughness works like that.

Brutalistik.6473:

Adaneshade.2409:

Brutalistik.6473:

Adaneshade.2409:

I’ll tell you other thieves the same thing I tell to every other class that QQs about being bursted down….get some toughness, glass cannons have no meaningful place in PvP.

You think toughness is the answer? Any glass cannon can blow through toughness with ease no matter how high it is. If anything you won’t be 2shotted instead…you’ll be 3shotted. Don’t believe me Adaneshade.2409? try it out yourself and see if I’m lying here. I guarantee you’ll be disappointed being 3shotted by glass cannon even having over 3k armor.

Have over 3k armor, never get 3 shot by anything. not even close. Either you’re outright lying, or just trying to troll.

PS – As a side note, maybe you should actually read someones post before going all nerd rage on them. I was poking fun at a thief, of all classes, complaining about dying to burst.

That’s not trolling man…that’s pure facts and maybe you should try it out before thinking toughness is the solution to counter glass cannons. This isn’t World of Warcraft buddy if you think toughness works like that.

Adane is correct here. Toughness is the solution to glass-cannon burst builds.

You are also correct about 2 shotted vs. 3 shotted in the most extreme cases. However, you underestimate how much of a difference this makes in PvP. This is the difference between having 2 lives and 3 lives. That extra life buys you enough time to dodge, heal, retreat, retaliate, stealth, block, etc.

Iohanna.4863:

Brutalistik.6473:

Adaneshade.2409:

Brutalistik.6473:

Adaneshade.2409:

I’ll tell you other thieves the same thing I tell to every other class that QQs about being bursted down….get some toughness, glass cannons have no meaningful place in PvP.

You think toughness is the answer? Any glass cannon can blow through toughness with ease no matter how high it is. If anything you won’t be 2shotted instead…you’ll be 3shotted. Don’t believe me Adaneshade.2409? try it out yourself and see if I’m lying here. I guarantee you’ll be disappointed being 3shotted by glass cannon even having over 3k armor.

Have over 3k armor, never get 3 shot by anything. not even close. Either you’re outright lying, or just trying to troll.

PS – As a side note, maybe you should actually read someones post before going all nerd rage on them. I was poking fun at a thief, of all classes, complaining about dying to burst.

That’s not trolling man…that’s pure facts and maybe you should try it out before thinking toughness is the solution to counter glass cannons. This isn’t World of Warcraft buddy if you think toughness works like that.

Adane is correct here. Toughness is the solution to glass-cannon burst builds.

You are also correct about 2 shotted vs. 3 shotted in the most extreme cases. However, you underestimate how much of a difference this makes in PvP. This is the difference between having 2 lives and 3 lives. That extra life buys you enough time to dodge, heal, retreat, retaliate, stealth, block, etc.

If you think toughness is the solution then keep believing that. I already know toughness isn’t the solution.

When Im playing my necro, I eat thieves for breakfast. Is it because I play one too? Why?

I feel much more powerful on my necro, and i can take a beating compared to my paper thin thief.

The only thing thieves excel at is escaping, and burst mobility. Thier burst damage isnt even as high as a warrior or mesmer.

The reason so many people cry is because of stealth. If you let a thief land back to back to back cloak and daggers then yes, they will not die and they will kill you. But guess what? CnD costs half thier resource pool. Culling in wvw is an issue yes, but dont blame thieves for that bug, it will be fixed eventually.

The fact is, in competative pvp where pretty much everyone on both teams knows how to play, thieves are not a top tier class, they are somewhere in the middle. On top of that, they are a lower tier dungeon class, dealing equal or slightly less damage than wars/guard yet having half the HP bar.

If you want stealth nerfed, then by all means increase our HP, armor, give us protection, stability, more regen/might uptime, whatever. But dont just come to the forums crying for nerfs, because thieves really arent “all that” atm.

Not sure why people claim that thieves are better geared than other classes to explain the WvWvW imbalances. Why would they be? Also, culling benefits thieves more than it does other classes. If it can’t be fixed, then steps will need to be taken.

OptimistPrime.9283:

My first character was a thief, leveled him to 30, and then abandoned him. My main is a guardian, and my first alt is an engie. Every time I entered WvW, I absolutely dreaded fighting thieves. I couldn’t out damage them as an engie, and I couldn’t out speed them as a guardian. Every other class, I had some sort of strategy to, but the thieves, I just couldn’t get down.

And then I decided to get that 30 thief to 80. From then on, my perception of thieves changed. They are annoying as absolute hell, I will agree with that. But they are in absolutely NO WAY OP.

The reason they are annoying is obvious – They have an extreme amount of mobility. They can get to you and get away incredibly quickly. I have no experience with high spike thieves, and I can only speak for condition thieves, but yes, I will agree that our speed and stealth is an extreme annoyance. However, that IS our class. We’re thieves. Just the word “thief” means speed and stealth.

The reason people think they are “OP” is because they don’t know how to handle a thief. As a thief with full exotics, I absolutely fear going into zergs of 3 or more. Not because of the damage. The damage is an issue, but the main reason I get nervous in big groups is because one of those players will pull out a stun, cripple, or an ability to knock me out of my stealth.

Thieves are an incredibly fragile class. People want them nerfed, but what those people do not realize is that if you take away our spike damage, we are extremely crippled. Thieves need to get in and get out quickly, as even with high vitality, we cannot survive long fights. If our mobility is nerfed, however, our class is virtually useless. We run away because we have to. Most view it as an act of cowardice to stealth and run, but the fact is that if we run away, we don’t die and you don’t die. And EVERY player, regardless of class, is going to try to run once they get on low health. We’re just better at it. That is what our class is GOOD at, just like other classes have things they are good at. There is a reason why most dungeons don’t want thieves – We have troubles surviving.

Want to combat a thief? Look at what your skills do. Every class has something that can combat a thief. We’re a tough class to nail down a strategy for, but we are an extremely fragile class. Especially glass cannon thieves. Take away high dps thieves’ speed, and the class is useless.

tl;dr: Thieves are in no way OP. They are EXTREMELY annoying, I will agree. But if you learn how to actually combat them, they aren’t as extreme of an issue

Sigh… While you are right with everything you said, people will still complain. The issue is that thieves tend to pick on people who don’t understand how to play the game. That’s the same group that then comes on here and complains about thieves being op. It’s a lot easier to say a class is op than to admit their own skills are subpar. Once they practice a bit, they will realize that thieves are the first class that should be targeted because they are the easiest to kill.

Albane.8367:

OptimistPrime.9283:

Want to combat a thief? Look at what your skills do. Every class has something that can combat a thief. .

Which class gets the “See Stealth” skill?

hehe true.

Rayya.2591:

i play my thief atm and
thief is not Overpowered
stealth make him overpowered
the ability to leave an combat vs 1 enemy or vs 5 or vs 30
the ability to enter in an tower and defend it when 30 enemy’s guard the dor
and is even more overpowered on P/D build where you are ranged and 80% of the time stealthed.
If A-net will change stealth with some extra evades stability /regeneration /armor or protection and leave 1 /2 stealth skills to thief they will be more balanced, and more viable in pve as well

If a thief is stealthed for 80% of the fight as you stated, you can simply ignore him. There’s not much he can do in what time is spent outside of stealth unless ofcourse said thief faces another glass cannon or someone with low health – someone that dies in 2sec from anything anyway.

Aside from that Thiefs/Rogues or classes like that are deemed to be OP in pretty much every game ever due to their nature of combat.
Those classes are based on not fighting a fair fight. They excell at taking out single isolated and/or weak targets. And are thus percieved OP because a fight with a thief is a fight with a big disatvantage for you in most cases. Smart thieves avoid fights that are not in their favor.

(My) Simple rules to ruin an assassins day:
1. Never swim alone !
2. Don’t be a target. If you are wounded seek the protection of nearby allys or even NPC to regen.
3. Be aware of the range a thief can engage you. Even if they are melee, treat them like rangers in terms of the range they are dangerous at.

Pretty sure when Anet fixes the culling stuff thieves complaints will drop 80%. And at least 50% of the community will reroll mesmer or another toon.

Hello,

There is already a dedicated thread about the thief here : The thief and its gameplay – Your feedback

Therefore, this one is now closed to avoid duplicates. Thank you for your understanding.