So I was chilling on my thief and was playing around with build ideas in my head right? I was looking at traits, runes, armor and all that then it hit me. Theives were meant to be full on hybrids. The d/d set has one of the most awesome bleed stacks in the game, an amazing high dps cloak skill, and a pro stealth mechanism. The same applied with p/d. It has a high damage ratio skill with conditons. This becomes more apparent when you look at traits, the trait “flanking strikes” is a power based boost in a condi line. The “runes of the theif” which add precision and condi damage with another 5% behind damage boost. If we could have high dps on both sides maybe by stacking might with noble runes and withdrawal. It could be a thing of new meta(maybe).
In theory, a hybrid theif could work, full celestial, decent crit with good condi. I’m just theory crafting so I might be full of it, but I’d like to see what you guys think!
I’m bad and thats good
Yaks Bend
LocknDog- level 80 thief
It’s too easy to cleanse thief blead stacks. They don’t have lots of cover conditions. Even if they did have cover conditions though, condi is DoT damage, so it doesn’t make sense to build a thief that way, since they won’t be able to survive attempting to apply constant pressure.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
If Pistol MH had slightly higher dmg on AA chain it would make the perfect hybrid set Now, even though strong in power specs, is shifted slightly towards cond.
Why would I bother with some hybrid builds that just prolong a fight if thief class allows me to instagib people?
A lot of the claims about X unconvential build being viable do come from a 1v1 setting, where you can take your time because there aren’t extrenal factors to deal with. In a Team setting, you don’t have the luxury of taking your time.
To the Vincecontix’s point 1v1 is the scenario where these kinds of methodical build can work, whether they’re optimal or not idk. In a team setting you will want to have glass cannons, as you mention, and bunkers, because it only takes two people spiking to down someone and 99% of the time guarentee a stomp with the spike and stomp potentially occurring in 4 seconds.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
Why would I bother with some hybrid builds that just prolong a fight if thief class allows me to instagib people?
A lot of the claims about X unconvential build being viable do come from a 1v1 setting, where you can take your time because there aren’t extrenal factors to deal with. In a Team setting, you don’t have the luxury of taking your time.
To the Vincecontix’s point 1v1 is the scenario where these kinds of methodical build can work, whether they’re optimal or not idk. In a team setting you will want to have glass cannons, as you mention, and bunkers, because it only takes two people spiking to down someone and 99% of the time guarentee a stomp with the spike and stomp potentially occurring in 4 seconds.
In context of having the most effective thief for a group setting you are right but for wvw solo small man roaming its a bit of a different matter. Going solo or small man even condi thiefs are viable and currently extremetly powerful with dire gear and perplex runes.
They’re strong vince but lack killing power vs tankier targets or just defensively played chars. The same thing applies to Amonatory’s spec and 10/0/30/0/30 SD/DP that I play atm. Everything is cool and smooth untill you meet 20k HP 3k armour war, dire pd, pu mes, tankier ele etc. Things will be even harder after April 15.
I was thinking about moving Condition Duration from Deadly Arts to Critical Strikes; Prowess (crt dmg) to Trickery and Condition Damage to Deadly Arts (originally in trickery) as this would encourage hybrids and break the "since-release-meta’ of 30 in CS.
They’re strong vince but lack killing power vs tankier targets or just defensively played chars. The same thing applies to Amonatory’s spec and 10/0/30/0/30 SD/DP that I play atm. Everything is cool and smooth untill you meet 20k HP 3k armour war, dire pd, pu mes, tankier ele etc. Things will be even harder after April 15.
I was thinking about moving Condition Duration from Deadly Arts to Critical Strikes; Prowess (crt dmg) to Trickery and Condition Damage to Deadly Arts (originally in trickery) as this would encourage hybrids and break the "since-release-meta’ of 30 in CS.
Yea I understand what your saying but it reallly depends on how the hybrid thief is built during combat I have have 3.3-3.5k+ attack 900-1000+ condi damage 60% crit chance and 75 crit dmg. You can kill pretty much anything with those stats. The 1000+ condi dmg cause the conditions to tick for a decent amount of damage and it really helps when dealing with high armored opponents.
Also in the video at 4.52 and 9.28 I vs two condi PU mesmers and these two are the best pu memser I have versed so far. PU mesmers are pretty easy when I run hybrid. Though I agree Warriors can attain some ridiculous stats and take a while to take down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRif5d7jU8w
Attachments:
Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
Give me power cause attack means nothing since you cannot calculate damage using that. Knowing these stats it would be nice to know others to get the the whole picture. Cheers!
Give me power cause attack means nothing since you cannot calculate damage using that. Knowing these stats it would be nice to know others to get the the whole picture. Cheers!
2531 power
Attachments:
Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
It’s too easy to cleanse thief blead stacks. They don’t have lots of cover conditions. Even if they did have cover conditions though, condi is DoT damage, so it doesn’t make sense to build a thief that way, since they won’t be able to survive attempting to apply constant pressure.
This is such a BS argument. Nobody has 100 cleanses, and a thief can easily reapply those stacks. Combined with Devourer Venom, a thief can safely stack 20 bleeds with no issues, while a bleed warrior (which is more than viable) can only stack 15 each burst, which is very easily telegraphed. Warrior has torment, but thief has poison on autoattack and steal. Thief also has a massive AoE bleed/cripple which ticks Signet of Malice. In a team fight you can be the determining factor, and running Celestial on said spec you can crit 6k backstabs while bleeding for near 1k per tick. Don’t knock it because every other thief on these poison forums tells you that bleed thief is garbage.
It’s too easy to cleanse thief blead stacks. They don’t have lots of cover conditions. Even if they did have cover conditions though, condi is DoT damage, so it doesn’t make sense to build a thief that way, since they won’t be able to survive attempting to apply constant pressure.
This is such a BS argument. Nobody has 100 cleanses, and a thief can easily reapply those stacks. Combined with Devourer Venom, a thief can safely stack 20 bleeds with no issues, while a bleed warrior (which is more than viable) can only stack 15 each burst, which is very easily telegraphed. Warrior has torment, but thief has poison on autoattack and steal. Thief also has a massive AoE bleed/cripple which ticks Signet of Malice. In a team fight you can be the determining factor, and running Celestial on said spec you can crit 6k backstabs while bleeding for near 1k per tick. Don’t knock it because every other thief on these poison forums tells you that bleed thief is garbage.
It’s not an optimal tactic for a thief, because you need to sustain yourself. Viable and optimal are different. It’ll work in some scenarios, but it gets downed easily by burst just like any other thief build, the biggest difference is it lacks blinds and mobility, so it can’t disengage at will. Those two things it lacks are why it isn’t optimal, especially in PvP.
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
The point I was trying tomake earlier is that the hybrid concept for thieves was aimed at a “different” game. It was aimed at lower overall stat budget, it was aimed at trinkets with jewel slots which allow you to fine tune the stat distribution. Also when the game came out it was by far easier to apply bleeds which were also much stronger, on crit effects also had no internal cooldown.
Ascened gear and the way it was introduced step by step led to a “stack more of the same” mentality, also for a long time there was a very harsh suppremacy ofdamage vs defense, since there were ascended weapons and trinkets but no armor.
I really would not call the S/P P/D build discused here a “hybrid” build, it is extremely focused on direct damage.
Even with P/D the main damage comes from cnd and shadow stab.
(edit) This build is what I would call a “balanced” build since it aims at creating multiple options includeing defense instead of stacking everything on one trick.
Joining the meta will put you allways one step behind, while you copy pasteit the guys who invented it will already be busy with moving on. The so called optimal builds usally are optimal only within very narrow settings and usually cave in as soon as any parameters of those settings change. (Try carrion D/D trickery/power in spvp for example you can farm the meta thieves all day long….)
It’s too easy to cleanse thief blead stacks. They don’t have lots of cover conditions. Even if they did have cover conditions though, condi is DoT damage, so it doesn’t make sense to build a thief that way, since they won’t be able to survive attempting to apply constant pressure.
This is such a BS argument. Nobody has 100 cleanses, and a thief can easily reapply those stacks. Combined with Devourer Venom, a thief can safely stack 20 bleeds with no issues, while a bleed warrior (which is more than viable) can only stack 15 each burst, which is very easily telegraphed. Warrior has torment, but thief has poison on autoattack and steal. Thief also has a massive AoE bleed/cripple which ticks Signet of Malice. In a team fight you can be the determining factor, and running Celestial on said spec you can crit 6k backstabs while bleeding for near 1k per tick. Don’t knock it because every other thief on these poison forums tells you that bleed thief is garbage.
You’re really holding back there.
Warrior can put on a blindfold and stack permanent 25 bleeds with no effort combined with perma torment, burn, cripple, and take 0 damage forever and duct tape you to a tree and make you watch helplessly as they abuse your puppy before killing both of you. ;/
Thief really doesn’t have a great condition set-up for damage and it’s more geared towards survival/trolling. Warrior and Necro just blow Thief out of the water when it comes to Hybrid builds. Mine as well just end someones life quickly with full direct damage
| Fort Aspenwood (NA): Sylvari Daredevil Thief Main: All Classes 80. | Please Remove/Fix Thief Trait: “Last Refuge.” “Hard to Catch” is a Horrible and Useless Trait. Fixed 6/23/15. Praise Dwayna.
It’s too easy to cleanse thief blead stacks. They don’t have lots of cover conditions. Even if they did have cover conditions though, condi is DoT damage, so it doesn’t make sense to build a thief that way, since they won’t be able to survive attempting to apply constant pressure.
This is such a BS argument. Nobody has 100 cleanses, and a thief can easily reapply those stacks. Combined with Devourer Venom, a thief can safely stack 20 bleeds with no issues, while a bleed warrior (which is more than viable) can only stack 15 each burst, which is very easily telegraphed. Warrior has torment, but thief has poison on autoattack and steal. Thief also has a massive AoE bleed/cripple which ticks Signet of Malice. In a team fight you can be the determining factor, and running Celestial on said spec you can crit 6k backstabs while bleeding for near 1k per tick. Don’t knock it because every other thief on these poison forums tells you that bleed thief is garbage.
You’re really holding back there.
Warrior can put on a blindfold and stack permanent 25 bleeds with no effort combined with perma torment, burn, cripple, and take 0 damage forever and duct tape you to a tree and make you watch helplessly as they abuse your puppy before killing both of you. ;/
Thief really doesn’t have a great condition set-up for damage and it’s more geared towards survival/trolling. Warrior and Necro just blow Thief out of the water when it comes to Hybrid builds. Mine as well just end someones life quickly with full direct damage
As I said early its really depends the setting and situation in group comp if you gonna bring a thief yes direct damage thief is what you want. Though if we talking wvw roaming condi thief is really strong esp with dire gear perplex runes its prob the strongest solo thief set up you can get atm.
The “Downed Easily” argument is completely ignorant. With a D/D+P/D setup you’re able to 1vZerg if you play smart enough, and keep enough bleed stacks to get several kills off. Running at least 10 in SA (which you should run 30 if you want any sort of sustain), you have blind on stealth, and dodging within stealth will create caltrops that won’t reveal you. Steal from an engie, Dealth Blossom/Heartseeker through the Gunk field and you’ll have Chaos Armor and spread AoE Confusion. It’s a VERY strong spec, and extremely underappreciated. I stopped playing it because I don’t feel that being invincible is very fun, and some opponents take ages to down.
The “Downed Easily” argument is completely ignorant. With a D/D+P/D setup you’re able to 1vZerg if you play smart enough, and keep enough bleed stacks to get several kills off. Running at least 10 in SA (which you should run 30 if you want any sort of sustain), you have blind on stealth, and dodging within stealth will create caltrops that won’t reveal you. Steal from an engie, Dealth Blossom/Heartseeker through the Gunk field and you’ll have Chaos Armor and spread AoE Confusion. It’s a VERY strong spec, and extremely underappreciated. I stopped playing it because I don’t feel that being invincible is very fun, and some opponents take ages to down.
1vZerg with lots of kills?
Pics or it didn’t happen.
I expect the upcoming evidence to be the 1 dying numerous times and the zerg trampling his corpse
Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)
It’s too easy to cleanse thief blead stacks. They don’t have lots of cover conditions. Even if they did have cover conditions though, condi is DoT damage, so it doesn’t make sense to build a thief that way, since they won’t be able to survive attempting to apply constant pressure.
This is such a BS argument. Nobody has 100 cleanses, and a thief can easily reapply those stacks. Combined with Devourer Venom, a thief can safely stack 20 bleeds with no issues, while a bleed warrior (which is more than viable) can only stack 15 each burst, which is very easily telegraphed. Warrior has torment, but thief has poison on autoattack and steal. Thief also has a massive AoE bleed/cripple which ticks Signet of Malice. In a team fight you can be the determining factor, and running Celestial on said spec you can crit 6k backstabs while bleeding for near 1k per tick. Don’t knock it because every other thief on these poison forums tells you that bleed thief is garbage.
You’re really holding back there.
Warrior can put on a blindfold and stack permanent 25 bleeds with no effort combined with perma torment, burn, cripple, and take 0 damage forever and duct tape you to a tree and make you watch helplessly as they abuse your puppy before killing both of you. ;/
Thief really doesn’t have a great condition set-up for damage and it’s more geared towards survival/trolling. Warrior and Necro just blow Thief out of the water when it comes to Hybrid builds. Mine as well just end someones life quickly with full direct damage
As I said early its really depends the setting and situation in group comp if you gonna bring a thief yes direct damage thief is what you want. Though if we talking wvw roaming condi thief is really strong esp with dire gear perplex runes its prob the strongest solo thief set up you can get atm.
All dire condi and perplex builds are strong, It’s an easy-mode gimmick, you’re only going to kill nubs though who are persistent in killing you when they can just as easilly ignore your mosquito damage and go about their business.
| Fort Aspenwood (NA): Sylvari Daredevil Thief Main: All Classes 80. | Please Remove/Fix Thief Trait: “Last Refuge.” “Hard to Catch” is a Horrible and Useless Trait. Fixed 6/23/15. Praise Dwayna.
GW2 is all about Hybrids that’s why the lack of the Holy Trinity. Further proof that Anet wants to keep the GW2’s identity as a Hybrid Class game based on this upcoming patch. Not sure why is this surprising.
http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.
It’s too easy to cleanse thief blead stacks. They don’t have lots of cover conditions. Even if they did have cover conditions though, condi is DoT damage, so it doesn’t make sense to build a thief that way, since they won’t be able to survive attempting to apply constant pressure.
This is such a BS argument. Nobody has 100 cleanses, and a thief can easily reapply those stacks. Combined with Devourer Venom, a thief can safely stack 20 bleeds with no issues, while a bleed warrior (which is more than viable) can only stack 15 each burst, which is very easily telegraphed. Warrior has torment, but thief has poison on autoattack and steal. Thief also has a massive AoE bleed/cripple which ticks Signet of Malice. In a team fight you can be the determining factor, and running Celestial on said spec you can crit 6k backstabs while bleeding for near 1k per tick. Don’t knock it because every other thief on these poison forums tells you that bleed thief is garbage.
You’re really holding back there.
Warrior can put on a blindfold and stack permanent 25 bleeds with no effort combined with perma torment, burn, cripple, and take 0 damage forever and duct tape you to a tree and make you watch helplessly as they abuse your puppy before killing both of you. ;/
Thief really doesn’t have a great condition set-up for damage and it’s more geared towards survival/trolling. Warrior and Necro just blow Thief out of the water when it comes to Hybrid builds. Mine as well just end someones life quickly with full direct damage
As I said early its really depends the setting and situation in group comp if you gonna bring a thief yes direct damage thief is what you want. Though if we talking wvw roaming condi thief is really strong esp with dire gear perplex runes its prob the strongest solo thief set up you can get atm.
All dire condi and perplex builds are strong, It’s an easy-mode gimmick, you’re only going to kill nubs though who are persistent in killing you when they can just as easilly ignore your mosquito damage and go about their business.
Hmm gimmick?http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/intermediates-guide.html i dont about that but they are so strong right now there’s not really any reason not to run it(for solo small man stuff). Thing is though you just described majority of gw2 pop people see red they wanna kill red.
Shikamaru X Thief, Warrior, Mesmer, Engi(FT leader)
Highest ranked reached 28 soloq
Isle of Janthir
