Guild Wars 2

So here i am, in the lair, the hornets nest of thieves on their very own forum. What should i expect? The typical ignorance of the players who can’t seem to get better no matter what or the try hard overly committed players who treat the profession like it’s their lifestyle?

It’s readily apparent that a HUGE population of theives have no idea that they are contributing very little to the team, and in many cases actually think their far tactics or lord rushing (into death) are actually helping the team.

On the flipside, when thieves are actually good. They are too good, and incite confusion among the general playerbase. “How can he dodge that many times?” “Is it really fair that he can bypass the down mechanic by going invisible?”

Short answer is, yes its fair, but the profession, when played well is in need of a nerf. Lets step back for a second and look at a class with an even higher skill ceiling, the Mesmer.

Now a mesmer, when played well, finds itself in weaker position than a well played theif, yet is harder to play to its full potential. Can you respect a mesmer who plays well? I know i sure can. On the other hand, a theif who play’s well almost seems to be abusing several rotations that allow it to be nearly unkillable. It feels cheesy to fight a well played theif, not like the mesmer who just tricked the hell outa me.

So on both end of the spectrum, bad and good theives are toxic to this community, the profession should have never been added to the game, but since it’s here it really needs to be reworked.

While I agree with you there is a huge skill disparity, I have to disagree with your assessment that a mesmer at skillcap is worse than a thief at skillcap. Its the other way around.

Reikou.7068:

While I agree with you there is a huge skill disparity, I have to disagree with your assessment that a mesmer at skillcap is worse than a thief at skillcap. Its the other way around.

Disagreed. You’re going to have to persuade my as to why. Currently i see a profession at skill cap which allows it slightly more mobility and dps (with the ability to trick people).

Versus theif, which can (when played correctly) Destroy anyone using a skill rotation which has very few breakers, all while avoiding hits and inevitably winning at pvp in every iteration. About the only thing a theif isnt good at is zerging. But what do ya know? I hear they are giving you all rifles in the expansion, so now you can be best at everything! [ill have you know that if theives do actually get rifles me and 90% of the people i know are dropping their professions and rolling theif]

This is a funny thread. I spent all day today playing on my mesmer alt in pvp, and I have to say if you dont go glass meta shatter, you can make a build that will infuriate good thieves and absolutely wreck bad thieves. At the worst, you end up stalemating against them or pushing them off.

Give hybrid shatter a try. As I already said, mesmer is an alt, so I’m sure this could be tweaked to be better and probably used better as well by someone who mains the class.

Anyway, I disagree with your assessment, but if there was enough vitriol in your blood to come here, I doubt I’ll get anywhere with a more in depth conversation.

PS: My highlight of the night was seeing someone take over 1500 damage from confusion from an autoattack. Lol’d

Hello!

How did you come to the conclusion that thieves in general are too strong?
What happened to you?
Are you talking about the whole profession or a specific spec?

I often hear people complaining about thieves, most of the time the frustration arise from getting +1 by a thief.

e.g. : you are fighting someone … fight looks good for you … enemy thief comes in and spikes you … “ah that op thief killed me” … in fact you had a two versus one and the thief was able to kill you that quick because your other opponent softened you up during the fight … forced cooldowns etc.

I don´t find thieves that strong in 1v1 situations. They excel in mobility and quick burst.

And yes shatter mesmer has a hard time against thieves, but not mesmer in general.

Best regards!

Invoker.5462:

Lets step back for a second and look at a class with an even higher skill ceiling, the Mesmer.

I am sorry, but this is not even remotely true, and I mained a Mesmer for a long time, you have much less room for an error on Thief than on Mesmer.

Well I’m a thief and I’m not toxic. I’m sure if your class was nerfed into the ground you’d be a tad kittened at people calling for more nerfs. The only weapon set that can evade for dayz is s/d and that’s the whole point of it. Outside of that, there is little survivability. Don’t tell me you can stealth and run away because if you cnd more than once you’re most likely screwed. Cnd is hard to land too anywas. Have you even been in a downstate fight with a ranger? Jeez. People cry about good thieves but there are good players from every class that can completely kitten you up.

The most problematic part of fighting a thief, is the amount of interrupts they can output via pistol offhand and the mobility for such a bursty class, granting free engages/disengages.

Invoker.5462:

So here i am, in the lair, the hornets nest of thieves on their very own forum.

Oi. Lair? Hornet’s nest? I resent that. Ranger forums are thataway. -points with shiny daggers- This is where you should be smelling gunpowder and hearing the ring of blades, fellow visitor. Oh, and we have the occasional alchemy table concocting various venoms.

In all seriousness, I have to state that I had a heckuva lot more difficulty learning the thief class, than the mesmer class. But this is biased, as mesmer was my first class, and is still my main. Of course I would find it easier than thief. Both classes have very different playstyles and expected duties.

Now, as to being toxic – that can go for anyone, regardless of class. But I’m thinking a toxic person is more akin to play a ‘kill-happy-laugh-in-your-face’ class, than ‘covered-in-pink-butterflies’ class. People wanna feel big, strong, and important. They will want to feed their ego. That’s where the toxicity comes from, not from thief mechanics.

If thieves danced around in pink butterflies before stealthing, but mesmers shattered enemies with evilly-sinister looking clones, I’m pretty sure the tables would be flipped.

Great joke, bro! Tell another.

Seriously, though. If you’re gonna make such a bold claim, I’d recommend backing it up with some examples and facts. Otherwise no one has any reason to take you seriously. Especially when medi guards and turret engis are reigning from what I’ve observed.

MightyMicah.7451:

Great joke, bro! Tell another.

Seriously, though. If you’re gonna make such a bold claim, I’d recommend backing it up with some examples and facts. Otherwise no one has any reason to take you seriously. Especially when medi guards and turret engis are reigning from what I’ve observed.

And warriors.

Seriously, how did my friend who doesn’t really care much for pvp, pick up a warrior class and played it for a few hours, managed to beat me in 1v1 against my thief, where I’ve spent tedious months practicing and polishing my technique!?

Sure if I switched to my mesmer main I’m sure I wouldn’t have a problem, but THAT’S NOT THE POINT!!!

/cri

Players who do play more then one class know the recent posts on here by main char only warriors and mesmers are a Joke.

A half decent Warrior player can beat any half decent Thief player. Warriors are easier to play and easier to win with without having to be perfect.

Mesmers are currently dog dogs in WvW as we have a rather cheap build thats FOTM.

Thief has a higher skill ceiling then both as you are REQUIRED to dodge perfectly, time your skills perfectly and have the right set up. Other classes can make a mistake or two or fudge up a skill and still be fine.

People need to go level up a few alts and then they will see which classes they will be bringing to WvW or PVP or PVE. Thief is still fun but it’s in the bottom half of classes when it comes to pure effectiveness or winning across all three settings.

To put my post into context Necromancers have it worst then any other class. The last class you want to roll for any content is the Necro. Anet needs to seriously look into buffing the classes that are falling short and create better synergy between skill ceiling / effectiveness.

Classes with a higher skill ceiling should be more effective when played to that level.

It’s is very very rare that I say this… Learn to play. Also T-H-I-E-F. I before E. Thanks

At the risk of derailing this thread, I’d just point out that you’re speaking about meta builds in conquest.

Thieves do well against shatter mesmers, but do poorly against CI lockdown, PU condi, and various phantasm builds.

The reason thieves are taken over other zerk classes in conquest settings is because thieves either burst harder than alternative zerk classes or they rotate faster than alternative zerk roamers. This goes completely out the window in non-conquest modes, where I think shatter mesmers and other zerk classes contribute more than a thief does.

i might be wrong but i feel like dp is bit more risky considering they have to commit more than mesmers and also they have multiple ways of utilizing their spells so i think skill cap is higher than mesmer

s/d on other hand is truly more faceroll (but still way higher skill cap than celestial classes), imo

Invoker.5462:

The profession, when played well is in need of a nerf.

I’m against your desire to nerf a class based on the potential it has when people take the time to master it, especially when it is much easier to be successful on several of the other aforementioned classes, in comparison.

The end goal of mastering a class should be excellence, not capped mediocrity.

That’s like telling an accomplished artist to tone down his skill so other artists don’t feel embarrassed.

Dontcha know? It’s not fair for someone else to master their class! I want to be able to log on, random dodge, and mash anything off cooldown. I should be able to win doing only this!

go reroll thief, im having a hard time as new thief cus i dont fully understand the class yet.
all i know is if i do stuff at wrong time or to early u can kiss your kitten goodbye most of the time.

when i see older thiefs that are better players i also think like wtf hes doing that and kitten 3 people in row and hes still fine with his hp.
let me try that also so i go 1on1 with him and maybe its my gear maybe its my playstyle i can last longer then all these 3 players together but i cant kill the thief, they can kill me cus i fail to understand still where kitten they keep going xD.
yet i deliver more damage and survive longer then other 3 people….

then again next moment i see a ranger kitten everything and other time a warrior stomping everything..
theres always players amazing at some class or these players are just lucky they happend to face some weak new players or found classes that basically dont even tickle their balls..

like warrior vs thief, ye right im out of here.

i would roll warrior if i was you they kill thiefs so easy so i guess warrior will kill all the rest of classes really easy also

btw

TH I E F
not th E I f

Short answer, You made us like this, (maybe not you, but the whiners)
you know at one time people use to theory craft on this forum, even help new player’s.
Hell half the “Trolls” your seeing on this forum at one time explained in great detail how to kill a thieve. but after years of vainly attempting to defend there class, that positive energy has turned sour.

Thank the TEEF OP crew, they corrupted us

Dear Invoker,

If you really feel this way, think for a second as to what got thief to this point…

- First, we have bad players who know nothing about the thief profession and git rekt when a thief just so happens to be in the vicinity. Bad player dies.

- Next, bad player goes to the forums and complains that the thief is overpowered simply because the OP is an average player with skills and that only something so overpowered can kill them. This happens countless times.

- Now there are multiple threads up stating thief is overpowered. Since ad Populum is an easy way to prove a point, all the bads that died to thief start soft-rioting through the forums. Anet notices this.

- Since “teef OP” is all over the forums and the only people who say otherwise are nolifing thief forums Anet started believing that thief was OP. Anet begins a string of nerfs and keeps at it until the tears stop. This kills morale in the thief community and the community becomes toxic realizing that logic is never going to work. Thief forum starts the L2P movement.

- Dec 10th comes around and nothing has changed except the profession’s effectiveness in game and thief players’ jadedness. Thieves begin leaving the profession for more rewarding and diverse ones. Ex-thieves begin L2Ping players in their new mains’ area.

- Ignorant players believing the thief is now “balanced” start trickling into the community and gittin rekt ingame. Trickling continues but players with more sense back out of the profession. Terribads are still complaining.

- Anet notices that the amount of people complaining about the profession has dropped drastically. Players considering thief “free loot” have made a noticeable appearance in the playerbase. Anet starts their attempts at making the profession fun again.

The end result of all this is:

• 2 out of 5 utility types are almost required while another is lackluster and the last 2 suck. (still)
• 60%+ traits nobody uses or wants to use. (still)
• A strict set of combat roles that really only help the team when the thief is good. (gotten worse)
• A profession community so acidic that it could clean steel. (can’t get any worse)
• A development team that most likely will not step foot in the profession because of the acidic community (and I wouldn’t blame them or anyone else either).

So if you really want to get this profession in a state EVERYONE could accept, then it would be a good idea to help the thieves increase the profession’s diversity build-wise and role-wise.

Thanks for understanding.

ok what a QQ TL;DR post..
I wouldn’t say thieves are “toxic”. They are mostly a minor nuisance, like a fly, if you swat at them they will run.
The thing is, if you are you a knowledgeable player to decipher whether or not that thief is running a build you can actually fight(if you even want to fight something that specializes in stealing from you), as with any class, you might not want to get into a fight you may not win. But that’s the thing too, is learning how to deal vs a thief. You just gonna bend over and take it til you learn to fight a bursty class or just run away at the sight of one?
It’s only good thieves you have to really worry about and even then those players aren’t toxic either. The only thing toxic about the profession is the noob thieves that die in 2.5 seconds of seeing any other class and likely rallybot a whole team fight. But i will give you credit for the truth that most thieves bring very little to a fight, as their kit is very selfish, but they can still be effective for a number of things. With all this being said, your argument is invalid good sir.

All Thief is really used for is decapping. It can’t even attempt to fight against certain builds. The very nature of Thief is spamming his most powerful abilities and relying on cheese like permastealth, permablind or permadodge. You can’t just take it away without ruining the whole profession completely.

I’d like to add that thieves are toxic because any mistakes on their part can cause them to lose, and any successes on their part will cause them to be perceived as OP. (which is actually exemplified in the OP’s post). They’re either broken or useless, never seen as balanced (as long as stealth exists).

It’s quite the quandry. You fail and it’s expected, you do well and you’re a tall poppy that needs to be cut down to size so fighting you is fair.
That would make anyone sour over a period of time.

Not to mention that the narrowing ground of being an “average” or “okay” thief is due to the fact that the only thieves that are hard to fight are -really- good, and so their gameplay is setting the bar for nerfs to the class.

(Hell, thieves cant even use SA without being harassed).

Invoker.5462:

It’s readily apparent that a HUGE population of theives have no idea that they are contributing very little to the team, and in many cases actually think their far tactics or lord rushing (into death) are actually helping the team.

On the flipside, when thieves are actually good. They are too good, and incite confusion among the general playerbase. “How can he dodge that many times?” “Is it really fair that he can bypass the down mechanic by going invisible?”

Totally agree. However to get from “useless” to “too good” is not liken to a plug-and-play device. There are many difficulties and challenges to even get close to “too good”.

Short answer is, yes its fair, but the profession, when played well is in need of a nerf. Lets step back for a second and look at a class with an even higher skill ceiling, the Mesmer.

I disagree. IMO, Elementalist has the highest ceiling and when mastered surpasses the “too good” point and mainly just “OP”.

Now a mesmer, when played well, finds itself in weaker position than a well played theif, yet is harder to play to its full potential. Can you respect a mesmer who plays well? I know i sure can. On the other hand, a theif who play’s well almost seems to be abusing several rotations that allow it to be nearly unkillable. It feels cheesy to fight a well played theif, not like the mesmer who just tricked the hell outa me.

Not true. A well played Mesmer will destroy you, not just “trick” you, since they are using 2 forms of stealth — clones and invisibility — and their clones are AI controlled, meaning they are really good at selecting target.

So on both end of the spectrum, bad and good theives are toxic to this community, the profession should have never been added to the game, but since it’s here it really needs to be reworked.

If we are going to gauge by toxicity level, Warrior is the most toxic profession since they tend to band together and looking at other professions as second class citizens.

In GW1, Assassins never need stealth because they can pick up Warrior as a 2ndary profession. This allow them to become a contributing member of any team. Even in that game, when Factions first came out, Warriors are looking down on other professions because they can build themselves as healer, tank, and DPS in one. GW2’s Warrior is no different.

Thieves work well with other classes if the Thief is played well and they fully understood their role. Warriors on the other hand, when played well typically don’t need anyone else and most accompanied with toxic attitude.

Eh? So if we suck-we ruin the game and if we’re good-we ruin the game. Okay. Thanks?

And all the “toxic” people that were too dumb to play a thief rerolled to a Warrior. What’s that say?

I have to say, one of the reasons I refuse to play thief is because I hate Anets love affair with thieves since the perma sin in gw1. Since I play guard, I am really deadly against thieves except for P/D.

Now I have to say I watched 1 P/D thief hold his own against 10 people yesterday in WvW outside blue keep. And he was able to wreck one guy and get away while this party of 10 was trying to hunt him down the whole time together in a group.

That is going to make people scream OP.

nightblood.7910:

I have to say, one of the reasons I refuse to play thief is because I hate Anets love affair with thieves since the perma sin in gw1. Since I play guard, I am really deadly against thieves except for P/D.

Now I have to say I watched 1 P/D thief hold his own against 10 people yesterday in WvW outside blue keep. And he was able to wreck one guy and get away while this party of 10 was trying to hunt him down the whole time together in a group.

That is going to make people scream OP.

*Noobs.

nightblood.7910:

I have to say, one of the reasons I refuse to play thief is because I hate Anets love affair with thieves since the perma sin in gw1. Since I play guard, I am really deadly against thieves except for P/D.

Now I have to say I watched 1 P/D thief hold his own against 10 people yesterday in WvW outside blue keep. And he was able to wreck one guy and get away while this party of 10 was trying to hunt him down the whole time together in a group.

That is going to make people scream OP.

I can do that on power build if the players are bad enough.

I can do that on a mesmer if the players are bad enough.

Sagat.3285:

nightblood.7910:

I have to say, one of the reasons I refuse to play thief is because I hate Anets love affair with thieves since the perma sin in gw1. Since I play guard, I am really deadly against thieves except for P/D.

Now I have to say I watched 1 P/D thief hold his own against 10 people yesterday in WvW outside blue keep. And he was able to wreck one guy and get away while this party of 10 was trying to hunt him down the whole time together in a group.

That is going to make people scream OP.

*Noobs.

Yeah I think thats the point, a group of ten noobs should be able to put a stop to that and its likely the toxic reference was due to that bully nature.

And yes, I am on this forum because I like hunting you guys and studying your class mechanics to counter it, though P/D seems to be an issue as of late.

nightblood.7910:

Sagat.3285:

nightblood.7910:

I have to say, one of the reasons I refuse to play thief is because I hate Anets love affair with thieves since the perma sin in gw1. Since I play guard, I am really deadly against thieves except for P/D.

Now I have to say I watched 1 P/D thief hold his own against 10 people yesterday in WvW outside blue keep. And he was able to wreck one guy and get away while this party of 10 was trying to hunt him down the whole time together in a group.

That is going to make people scream OP.

*Noobs.

Yeah I think thats the point, a group of ten noobs should be able to put a stop to that and its likely the toxic reference was due to that bully nature.

And yes, I am on this forum because I like hunting you guys and studying your class mechanics to counter it, though P/D seems to be an issue as of late.

Issues?? Just walk away imo just like you would with PU mesmer. I have seen zergs falling for the necro spectral walk,war stances and actually chased him,zergs are usually dumb and promote lesser skilled players. I run both s/d and p/d in wvw with two different chars, I prefer trap thief because it makes for the damage and mobility boost it gives for less sustain.

Negating Sneak Attack is so easy as well,usually if you lose to traditional p/d with krait rune that is l2p,perplexity is another thing tough,just watch for your surroundings any damage focus thief will take advantage of it don’t forget it’s the roguish archetype.

Sagat.3285:

nightblood.7910:

Sagat.3285:

nightblood.7910:

I have to say, one of the reasons I refuse to play thief is because I hate Anets love affair with thieves since the perma sin in gw1. Since I play guard, I am really deadly against thieves except for P/D.

Now I have to say I watched 1 P/D thief hold his own against 10 people yesterday in WvW outside blue keep. And he was able to wreck one guy and get away while this party of 10 was trying to hunt him down the whole time together in a group.

That is going to make people scream OP.

*Noobs.

Yeah I think thats the point, a group of ten noobs should be able to put a stop to that and its likely the toxic reference was due to that bully nature.

And yes, I am on this forum because I like hunting you guys and studying your class mechanics to counter it, though P/D seems to be an issue as of late.

Issues?? Just walk away imo just like you would with PU mesmer. I have seen zergs falling for the necro spectral walk,war stances and actually chased him,zergs are usually dumb and promote lesser skilled players. I run both s/d and p/d in wvw with two different chars, I prefer trap thief because it makes for the damage and mobility boost it gives for less sustain.

Negating Sneak Attack is so easy as well,usually if you lose to traditional p/d with krait rune that is l2p,perplexity is another thing tough,just watch for your surroundings any damage focus thief will take advantage of it don’t forget it’s the roguish archetype.

Issues? Nah not really, I just mained a staff ele when coming back to gw2 and well you know the relationship of thief to staff ele. Poor little staff ele coming into WvW for the first time and hey look there is a nice thief. Insta death.

Plus I say that hunt thing all in fun. While I do like to hunt you guys, if I see you, Im coming, its due to what I see you accomplish. Therefore I want to fight that. I generally go after what I see do the best with some other counter to it so I theorize and change my builds constantly to play the game. Much like you do. Its a challenge.

nightblood.7910:

Issues? Nah not really, I just mained a staff ele when coming back to gw2 and well you know the relationship of thief to staff ele. Poor little staff ele coming into WvW for the first time and hey look there is a nice thief. Insta death.

Plus I say that hunt thing all in fun. While I do like to hunt you guys, if I see you, Im coming, its due to what I see you accomplish. Therefore I want to fight that. I generally go after what I see do the best with some other counter to it so I theorize and change my builds constantly to play the game. Much like you do. Its a challenge.

Do you recall the if the target wasn’t done in one shot run away playstyle?

Yes and no, I know that thief was out there. EBG blue Keep on SoS side this weekend.

When I fought him, it was stealth, rapid fire from stealth and poison just wrecking my heals. But then again, I did just rebuild my guard at the time in something completely different than the past.

I was speaking of very early in the game at least (for the servers I saw in WvW) the thieves would start the fight if the first backstab didn’t kill it they would disengage and not comeback. After a bit I got a couple of buddies to hide nearby and would bait thieves by mining/gathering.

Bran.7425:

I was speaking of very early in the game at least (for the servers I saw in WvW) the thieves would start the fight if the first backstab didn’t kill it they would disengage and not comeback

Actually that backstab is to simply gauge your defenses or test their build. I do this a lot when I was tweaking my build. I have no intention of engaging into combat, just to see if my crit is high enough and how much damage I deal.

Also, based on that backstab, I can estimate your total health.

If, for example, I hit you for 5k and it brought you down to about 1/3, then you must have 15k-17k health — that to me is a risky target because 1) I know that you don’t have much toughness because I don’t get 5K on tough targets and 2) you must be a power build.

However if I hit you for 3k and it brought you down to about 1/10, that’s a red flag to me because there’s a high probability that you are running a Dire build.

Contrary to your belief, there is an honor among Thieves, most Thieves won’t pick on anyone that doesn’t pose a challenge. There is no satisfaction in beating someone who is up level or poorly built.

I personally don’t mind losing a fight nor facing off with a Dire build because part of being a Thief is the adrenaline rush that if you lose focus for just one bit…you will die…and to come out victorious — nothing compares.

It is unfortunate that I cannot say the same with other professions.

At least early on it was definitely not testing as until I started baiting them with soft targets they would /dance or /sit on the corpse.

Bran.7425:

At least early on it was definitely not testing as until I started baiting them with soft targets they would /dance or /sit on the corpse.

When, exactly, is “early on”?

The first 4 months or so, not too long after that bad matchup started to break the will of many of the servers for wvw

The nerf wish list has been resurrected!

Invoker.5462:

So here i am, in the lair, the hornets nest of thieves on their very own forum. What should i expect? The typical ignorance of the players who can’t seem to get better no matter what or the try hard overly committed players who treat the profession like it’s their lifestyle?

Cool you came here to vent and not listen. Got it.

Invoker.5462:

It’s readily apparent that a HUGE population of theives have no idea that they are contributing very little to the team, and in many cases actually think their far tactics or lord rushing (into death) are actually helping the team.

Yeah that’s not class specific… That’s just a person that doesn’t know what their doing in sPvP.
But we’re assuming that you mean people that aren’t good or below average skill – and just overexaggerating it by what you’re saying.

Invoker.5462:

On the flipside, when thieves are actually good. They are too good, and incite confusion among the general playerbase. “How can he dodge that many times?” “Is it really fair that he can bypass the down mechanic by going invisible?”

Traits, sigils, possibly using an SB? Is it fair to bypass the down mechanic (assuming you mean the ability to interrupt/knockdown) with stability?
Maybe you mean running away – again everyone can do it. True thieves can do it better than most.

Invoker.5462:

Short answer is, yes its fair, but the profession, when played well is in need of a nerf. Lets step back for a second and look at a class with an even higher skill ceiling, the Mesmer.

So people that play well need to get handicapped? This really seems like you got outplayed a short while a go and that was the last drop which caused you to come here and vent. It’s cool we understand, there’s been millions of “you”.

Invoker.5462:

Now a mesmer, when played well, finds itself in weaker position than a well played theif, yet is harder to play to its full potential. Can you respect a mesmer who plays well? I know i sure can. On the other hand, a theif who play’s well almost seems to be abusing several rotations that allow it to be nearly unkillable. It feels cheesy to fight a well played theif, not like the mesmer who just tricked the hell outa me.

Yeah, I don’t have a mesmer, can’t say anything about that. It feels cheesy getting outplayed probably anything, since cheesy is in your vocabulary.

Invoker.5462:

So on both end of the spectrum, bad and good theives are toxic to this community, the profession should have never been added to the game, but since it’s here it really needs to be reworked.

And so, on both ends of the spectrum, good/decent players wreck thieves while bad ones QQ/vent on their forums, both being somewhat annoying/toxic to the thief community.

I do agree with a rework, though not for the same reasons.

NERF WISH LIST!!!

Invoker.5462:

but the profession, when played well is in need of a nerf.

Wow…just…just wow. I sincerely hope you’re trolling, because this is one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read on the thief forums.

can like someone show me a video of a mastered thief? i keep seeing people complain about how op someone is when they master this profession but i don’t know what it looks like.

A mastered thief still dies to decent players or has to run away to keep from dying. That’s why there are no youtube videos of any such thing. There are thieves who can kill multiple nubs at a time, but not multiple good players.

King Noob IV.3560:

can like someone show me a video of a mastered thief? i keep seeing people complain about how op someone is when they master this profession but i don’t know what it looks like.

Specifically at about 7:30

King Noob IV.3560:

can like someone show me a video of a mastered thief?

But in my opinion he’s extremely good, so not just “mastered”

King Noob IV.3560:

can like someone show me a video of a mastered thief? i keep seeing people complain about how op someone is when they master this profession but i don’t know what it looks like.

Pretty sure, they’ve seen too many montage videos of pro-thieves and so when they die once, those videos are subconsciously replayed in their heads and they think “Wow pro-thieves never die and always get the kill!”

Little do they know that montage videos are typically hand-picked clips collected over a span of fights over a span of some time to basically show off a bit.

That’s not to say the people posting up montage videos suck. It’s more to point out that it’s a montage video.

Although I don’t know any, live streams would probably a closer show of skill, since you will see ALL the fights (including the ones where they lost). And even then, but-hurt people will have a confirmation bias while watching live streams.

THEY EXIST!!! IN OUR HEADS!!!!

Hey, let me be a fangirl for once!

(Yeah, but you’re right)

Zero Day.2594:

King Noob IV.3560:

can like someone show me a video of a mastered thief? i keep seeing people complain about how op someone is when they master this profession but i don’t know what it looks like.

Pretty sure, they’ve seen too many montage videos of pro-thieves and so when they die once, those videos are subconsciously replayed in their heads and they think “Wow pro-thieves never die and always get the kill!”

Little do they know that montage videos are typically hand-picked clips collected over a span of fights over a span of some time to basically show off a bit.

That’s not to say the people posting up montage videos suck. It’s more to point out that it’s a montage video.

Although I don’t know any, live streams would probably a closer show of skill, since you will see ALL the fights (including the ones where they lost). And even then, but-hurt people will have a confirmation bias while watching live streams.

THEY EXIST!!! IN OUR HEADS!!!!

So true, zero. So true.

A master thief will never reveal themselves. Totally not a play on words.

Invoker.5462:

So here i am, in the lair, the hornets nest of thieves on their very own forum. What should i expect? The typical ignorance of the players who can’t seem to get better no matter what or the try hard overly committed players who treat the profession like it’s their lifestyle?

It’s readily apparent that a HUGE population of theives have no idea that they are contributing very little to the team, and in many cases actually think their far tactics or lord rushing (into death) are actually helping the team.

On the flipside, when thieves are actually good. They are too good, and incite confusion among the general playerbase. “How can he dodge that many times?” “Is it really fair that he can bypass the down mechanic by going invisible?”

Short answer is, yes its fair, but the profession, when played well is in need of a nerf. Lets step back for a second and look at a class with an even higher skill ceiling, the Mesmer.

Now a mesmer, when played well, finds itself in weaker position than a well played theif, yet is harder to play to its full potential. Can you respect a mesmer who plays well? I know i sure can. On the other hand, a theif who play’s well almost seems to be abusing several rotations that allow it to be nearly unkillable. It feels cheesy to fight a well played theif, not like the mesmer who just tricked the hell outa me.

So on both end of the spectrum, bad and good theives are toxic to this community, the profession should have never been added to the game, but since it’s here it really needs to be reworked.

So you think that the average thief player is bad and causes you to lose games, but you also think that the few good thief players cause the class to deserve a nerf because they’re too effective/cheesy, and you justify this by making an argument about mesmer having a higher skill ceiling/being less cheesy? The logic is not strong with this one.

Bad players making bad strategic decisions in game is completely irrelevant to a discussion about a particular class, there are just as many warriors, mesmers, rangers etc that rush far/lord solo and die hilariously as there are thieves because the player behind the keyboard doesn’t see how pointless that is. Bad players don’t make the class bad, so we will consider that point moot.

There are good players on both classes and the defences for thief and mesmer being active instead of passive means there’s a very high skill ceiling for both, I’ve been roflstomped by every class because the particular player behind the keyboard outplayed me. That’s still not a reason to nerf anything, unless you’re advocating lobotomies for skilled players. Try learning their counters instead.

Thieves are actually as effective at the roamer/+1 role as mesmers I feel, the main difference is that thief mechanics give mesmers a hard time. Mesmers on the other hand struggle far less with classes like warrior when played properly due to their range keeping them out of dodge whilst still being able to keep up the damage, which seems fair. You can’t expect all classes to be capable of the same things because that’s not how they were designed.

If anything, your elitist attitude that a profession should never have been included in the game because players either aren’t doing everything you expect them to or are too good for you is what’s toxic to the community.

I don’t know about the community, really, but I do think it’s problematic that a bad thief is super awful (had two friends almost quit after getting wrecked trying to lvl thieves…they went to guardians instead) and a good thief doesn’t allow for their opponent to do much of anything. It makes the class either really frustrating to play as or against, depending on skill levels.

Whether or not it’s OP is sort of irrelevant at that point, though (besides dire builds) I don’t think that thieves are OP, just frustrating.