Guild Wars 2

Hello,

my question is: why isnt it used more in PvP? Every guide or high ranked player I saw ever have used Basilisk elite. But I find it to be more effective despite of the much greater CD. While Lyssa runes were dominating thief PvP I got it why Basilisk was used, but now – in the age of str runes – hasnt this time gone by? Or is this an ego issue rather? What I mean by that is the ‘Only noob mesmers, necros and ranger use AI for PvP’ assessment… So is TG ‘noobish’ and ‘for suckers’ or am I actually missing something meaningful here?

ty

In a huge team fight they’re not very effective, they will be AoE’d down or just caught in the auto-attacks of the team fight.

Nothing wrong with TG, except some AoE may take down the thieves quickly.

TG is very strong in 1v1, while BV can be more useful in a team fight to help locking down the main target. DS grants stability, projectile reflect and some nice AoE.

All elites have their strengths and weaknesses, if you feel TG will help you and your playstyle more you should certainly use it. I often choose BV simply to help me land my burst with D/x or to finish off an AA chain or land LS with S/x and the low cd makes it frequent. Sometimes I choose DS to provide a lot of damage against all the pet people.
If I have a poor team comp I pick thieves guild so I’ll be able to stand my ground better.

So all in all, its not un-ethical to use it or something like that? I just dont want to be hated. Thx for the answers.

Nimrud.5642:

So all in all, its not un-ethical to use it or something like that? I just dont want to be hated. Thx for the answers.

Read “The Use of the Word Cheese” link in my sig

Nimrud.5642:

So all in all, its not un-ethical to use it or something like that? I just dont want to be hated. Thx for the answers.

You picked a wrong class if you “dont want to be hated”.

Karolis.4261:

Nimrud.5642:

So all in all, its not un-ethical to use it or something like that? I just dont want to be hated. Thx for the answers.

You picked a wrong class if you “dont want to be hated”.

:))))) I meant within the thief community. I thought that using TG in pvp was like the eternal-stealth mesmer, or – staying in our own yard – SA thief, or MM necro. Being hated by those who dont know or hate thief mechanics is actually fun.

Nimrud.5642:

So all in all, its not un-ethical to use it or something like that? I just dont want to be hated. Thx for the answers.

If you don’t want to be hated, play…. umm… Mantra mesmer.

If you insist on playing thief, never go into stealth! never dodge! and for God’s sake never press 2 if you’re using dagger mainhand, and never press 3 on P/P, S/D or S/P, not on D/P or SB either. The only thing you are allowed to do is 4 on D/D and SB, although people hit by SB’s 4 will give you the " ‘-_- "-face. SB’s 2 is quite okay too, but pure torture for yourself, since you’ll be in queue for the next game before it lands on the ground, sometimes people you were aiming at will get hit by it a while after they’ve logged out and when they log back in the next day they will find their character dead and are totally clueless what happened.

If you’ve made all this clear and still wants to play thief, forget everything I said and use whatever elite you want to. Since all of them have counters, none of them are an unorthodox choice.

Ghostwolf.9863:

Nimrud.5642:

So all in all, its not un-ethical to use it or something like that? I just dont want to be hated. Thx for the answers.

If you don’t want to be hated, play…. umm… Mantra mesmer.

If you insist on playing thief, never go into stealth! never dodge! and for God’s sake never press 2 if you’re using dagger mainhand, and never press 3 on P/P, S/D or S/P, not on D/P or SB either. The only thing you are allowed to do is 4 on D/D and SB, although people hit by SB’s 4 will give you the " ‘-_- "-face. SB’s 2 is quite okay too, but pure torture for yourself, since you’ll be in queue for the next game before it lands on the ground, sometimes people you were aiming at will get hit by it a while after they’ve logged out and when they log back in the next day they will find their character dead and are totally clueless what happened.

If you’ve made all this clear and still wants to play thief, forget everything I said and use whatever elite you want to. Since all of them have counters, none of them are an unorthodox choice.

:))) Thieves should not be able to log in the game! When one is online its already overpowered, let alone if the player pushes buttons.

Ghostwolf.9863:

If you insist on playing thief, never go into stealth! never dodge! and for God’s sake never press 2 if you’re using dagger mainhand, and never press 3 on P/P, S/D or S/P, not on D/P or SB either.

That will not help, the average scrub will hate you even more for spamming Heartseeker with your Sword and perma-stealthing with the Shortbow.

So, you might as well be as ‘cheesy’ as you can get, just make sure you win.

Hey Nimrud, I thought exactly the same. A pro player might not be allowed to use it, since they have to win with skill
But if you aren’t playing top 1000 and play solo Q, take it. I do – if i think it fits. You find yourself often as close defender or in other roles a thief isn’t made for. The two guys are really helpful. One uses scorpion wire and the other backstabs I think.
About Dagger Storm, it can be canceld with dodge and you stay with stability. Have fun and don’t care about others calling you noob. There’s no way to avoid that. Want a funny proof? Watch Sensotix latest thief video on youtube. The warrior is calling him noob after he killed him – so funny

@all – sry for bad english – …no not really

KingMango.9785:

Hey Nimrud, I thought exactly the same. A pro player might not be allowed to use it, since they have to win with skill
But if you aren’t playing top 1000 and play solo Q, take it. I do – if i think it fits. You find yourself often as close defender or in other roles a thief isn’t made for. The two guys are really helpful. One uses scorpion wire and the other backstabs I think.
About Dagger Storm, it can be canceld with dodge and you stay with stability. Have fun and don’t care about others calling you noob. There’s no way to avoid that. Want a funny proof? Watch Sensotix latest thief video on youtube. The warrior is calling him noob after he killed him – so funny
@all – sry for bad english – …no not really

The fk this supposed to mean?

KingMango.9785:

About Dagger Storm, it can be canceld with dodge and you stay with stability.

You may cancel Daggerstorm by pressing the command that stows weapons.

Personally I have it bound to the mousewheel since there are many other things that can be canceled using stow weapons too. Even Cloak and Dagger if you see someone applying blind or aegis the moment you press the key.

An alternate way is weaponswap, plan what weapon you want to use after canceling DS and done.

I recommend using these methods instead of pressing the invaluable dodge key, unless you have 3p in acro and signet of agility.

Thieves guild works well for a venom share build in a one on one situation. Properly specced, you, with your thieves, can drop up to 12 stacks of Skale venom on someone. If they don’t or can’t clear it, watch them do the wicked witch of the west vs. a water bucket.

I use TG in high-end competitive play.

People will call you cheap but that’s the nature of PvP.

Lux.7169:

I use TG in high-end competitive play.

People will call you cheap but that’s the nature of PvP.

If you play to win, then all the mechanics of the game are at your disposal, cheap or not.

I made a thread about this not that long ago actually. I don’t find the need for basilisk venom any longer since the stun isn’t that long and lyssa have been removed from my build. Thieves Guild is a very strong alternative for us since we are often roaming and finding ourself in some tough spots.

Here’s my use for it:

• Turning the odds in our favor in an outnumbered team fight.
• Securing a quick decap.
• Winning a duel on home node fast.

The spawned thieves create enough chaos to dazzle most players. In team fights they die fast, but it can be enough to turn the tide if outnumbered. Assassinating a player in a group fight is easy with TG; just move a little bit away and make sure he doesn’t have stability, then pop TG and watch the scorpion wire drag your target right to you, ready to die.

For quick decaps it is pretty self explanationary. Just pop TG if you can’t down the opponent fast enough solo, if you lose now your opponent are very good ^^

A thief shouldn’t duel, but especially in solo queue I find myself capping close because the rest went mid. If the enemy decide to send a decapper or just two guys to ninja cap it I actually have a chance with TG. Even against two opponents I may have a chance to win and secure the cap.

I find that all thief elites have their uses in tPvP, it all depends on your build, team comp and taste.

TG should not be treated as a “I have no right to use this against one person” skill. It is an elite skill. People use their elites all of the time. Guardians especially are far from shy with their elite skills, and engineers. Use it when you feel as though your opponent may outmatch you or when you need to defeat another very fast or give yourself an edge in a 2v1. I’ve had them hold off another while I killed the weaker only to then go and finish off the distracted while they were still alive. Your thieves, your rules.

Nimrud.5642:

So all in all, its not un-ethical to use it or something like that? I just dont want to be hated. Thx for the answers.

Who cares about someone’s subjective idea of unethical in a video game? Use what gets the win.

Lux.7169:

I use TG in high-end competitive play.

People will call you cheap but that’s the nature of PvP.

Pshh, people will call you cheap for just about anything these days. You kill someone, you’re cheap or a noob, use a particular skill, same thing. What it boils down to is that they simply couldn’t counter it and it hurt their poor little feelings because they learned today that they are not invincible.

Static.9841:

Nimrud.5642:

So all in all, its not un-ethical to use it or something like that? I just dont want to be hated. Thx for the answers.

Who cares about someone’s subjective idea of unethical in a video game? Use what gets the win.

Lux.7169:

I use TG in high-end competitive play.

People will call you cheap but that’s the nature of PvP.

Pshh, people will call you cheap for just about anything these days. You kill someone, you’re cheap or a noob, use a particular skill, same thing. What it boils down to is that they simply couldn’t counter it and it hurt their poor little feelings because they learned today that they are not invincible.

I think it’s pretty funny when you win a pretty crucial 1v1 match with TG and they go into /s and say something to the affect of “LOL you used TG in a 1v1, gl waiting 180s to use it again”

…and you end up not finding any reasonable situation to use it again for another 180s anyway.

Oh, and it’s even better when the person taunting you dropped supply crate and still lost.

Lux.7169:

Static.9841:

Nimrud.5642:

So all in all, its not un-ethical to use it or something like that? I just dont want to be hated. Thx for the answers.

Who cares about someone’s subjective idea of unethical in a video game? Use what gets the win.

Lux.7169:

I use TG in high-end competitive play.

People will call you cheap but that’s the nature of PvP.

Pshh, people will call you cheap for just about anything these days. You kill someone, you’re cheap or a noob, use a particular skill, same thing. What it boils down to is that they simply couldn’t counter it and it hurt their poor little feelings because they learned today that they are not invincible.

I think it’s pretty funny when you win a pretty crucial 1v1 match with TG and they go into /s and say something to the affect of “LOL you used TG in a 1v1, gl waiting 180s to use it again”

…and you end up not finding any reasonable situation to use it again for another 180s anyway.

Oh, and it’s even better when the person taunting you dropped supply crate and still lost.

lol right?

Or they complain “ZOMG you had use TG to beat me”. Er, no, but I don’t want the fight to last all freaking game, the goal is to shut you down and capture your point as quickly as possible – achievement unlocked!

It’s much more fun to be hated during a competitive match. Gets your opponent off thier game. Use whatever you have to make you win (within ethical reason, i.e. bugs, gltiches) ;-)

ThatShortGuy.4672:

It’s much more fun to be hated during a competitive match. Gets your opponent off thier game. Use whatever you have to make you win (within ethical reason, i.e. bugs, gltiches) ;-)

Exactly, when they are spending more time flaming you than doing something useful, you already have an advantage, an angry/frustrated player is going to make mistakes.

I run thieves guild because I pack enough stuns with S/P anyway. When I engage someone who has to die quick before reinforcements arrive, I’d use shadow refuge a few meters from him (so he can’t fear me out or anything yet) and use thieves guild in it. Your small warband is stealthed and won’t attack unless you attack.

Even if the person is skilled enough to evade your stealth attack, the AI will use scorpionwire in the brief second between dodges, which makes it impossible to evade. The blackpowder they use, is useful if you have a dagger mainhand for a cheap stealth. After that I just make sure that I don’t stand near my own npcs, so any AoE aimed at me won’t kill them, and vice versa.

If you’re running sword, there’s very little reason to not run Thieves’ Guild. You have either Flanking Strike or Pistol Whip. You’ll be avoiding damage while dealing damage with both, and you have Infiltrator’s Strike, which is an immob. Immob + Evade is just as good as Stun+Evade.

I personally hate most forms of AI in PvP though, so I have been choosing not to run it. Mesmer illusions in shatter builds are the best form of AI I’ve seen implemented in PvP. Things like Pirate Runes, Ogre Runes, Minions, Spirit Weapons, and Turrets I have a high level of disdain for, because it’s player vs player. It’s supposed to be active vs active, not kite around ranging while my AI kills you. Outplaying someone and them performing just as well in combat as you or at least close to it, because of AI takes so much away from my enjoyment that it’s hard for me to take Queues seriously.

Shockwave.1230:

Mesmer illusions in shatter builds are the best form of AI I’ve seen implemented in PvP.

Imo all mesmer builds are quite good with their AI, even pure phantasm builds.
They are passive like all pets, that’s true, but they are highly telegraphed and easy to destroy.

The rest of the pets in this game have abilities that are hard to spot before it’s too late that randomly will screw you up while they are being sturdier than the player itself.
The phantasm mesmer actually needs to be skilled to be competitive, while a minion necro will always perform close to the same; destroy squishy players in seconds, while getting destroyed quickly by sturdy players with high AoE and damage.

Carpboy.7145:

Nimrud.5642:

So all in all, its not un-ethical to use it or something like that? I just dont want to be hated. Thx for the answers.

Read “The Use of the Word Cheese” link in my sig

Thank you for that. Genuinely.

Nimrud.5642:

Hello,

my question is: why isnt it used more in PvP? Every guide or high ranked player I saw ever have used Basilisk elite. But I find it to be more effective despite of the much greater CD. While Lyssa runes were dominating thief PvP I got it why Basilisk was used, but now – in the age of str runes – hasnt this time gone by? Or is this an ego issue rather? What I mean by that is the ‘Only noob mesmers, necros and ranger use AI for PvP’ assessment… So is TG ‘noobish’ and ‘for suckers’ or am I actually missing something meaningful here?

ty

Can you explain in what part of PvP are you referring to? In tPvP a rationale could be that you would want to minimize your dependency to AI (as a thief). Also, BV can force CDs if you are not peeled from your target, whereas you can LoS some abilities of the TG thieves without blowing any major defensive ability.

The way I see it, it’s simple really.

Thieves guild is around x3 longer cooldown. In the 1.5 sec you CC someone with Basilisk Venom you can do a ton of damage.
Like above, Basilisk Venom is on a much lower cooldown, you can trigger certain rune sets more frequently.

Though, the main one for me..

If you use Thieves guild and stealth, the Thieves will follow you around and they give away your position to the enemy.

Except BV is actually easily dodged, even from the most experienced thieves. Dodging it or blinding it puts it on full CD.

No one here is saying BV is bad. It’s obviously the most-used elite with competitive thieves. I believe the general opinion of the thread is that TG has under-appreciated benefits in competitive play.

As for thieves following you around as a reason to suggest TG is bad is ridiculous. Take Caed for example, who used ogre runes for nearly 2 years. Are we going to say his choice in runes is brownish because rock dog follows a stealthed thief?