Guild Wars 2

When compared to other classes, Thieves are at a unique disadvantage in a “standard” WvW engagement, specifically when they are on either end of a Keep/Tower/etc siege. Before I get into this, here’s what I’ve found I can do with my Thief in WvW:

• Supply Runs for Siege Setup: A pack of Thieves is way faster and a heck of a lot more vicious than a dolyak. What bums me out is that I can’t drop my supply off at a supply hut in a keep or something. Once I have it I have to use it. Maybe this is a balancing thing to encourage reliance on dolyaks for Keep/Tower/etc upgrades? If it’s not a balancing thing, having a mini-DE for supply delivery (specifically from a supply camp to an held Keep/Tower/etc) could be cool. It would also be a nice thing for WvW soloers to try.
• Baiting Stragglers: I like to get behind enemy lines with a buddy and bait stragglers, then pin them down with CC so my friend can get in close and help with the beat down.
• Scorpion Wire!: Over zealous wall defenders can sometimes get pulled down if they hang off the edge of the wall a bit. I don’t know if this is intended functionality, but it’s unreliable at best. Still hilarious when it happens though.
• Sentry Attacks: A lone Thief should have no problem with a Veteran Sentry NPC. This is useful for distracting the enemy zerg.
• Hill Scouting: I can get places faster than anyone else, so being the first over a hill (and often the first to take a ballista bolt to the face) falls to me.

However, regardless of the things that I can do, what I want to do is to blast people from atop a wall while defending a castle. Right now, my only options for doing that are Shorbow Skill #2 (Cluster Shot) and Shortbow Skill #4 (Choking Gas). All of my other attacks are max range 900 or less, which becomes problematic when fighting from a wall (or up against people defending a wall, for that matter).

Additionally, when firing Cluster Shot from a wall directly down at my targets, my Thief inexplicably lobs it up in the air! The flight speed is already slow, and the additional travel time from the lobbing shot makes it almost impossible to deal damage to the highly mobile enemies below.

I’m not sure what the fix for this is, or if it needs one from ArenaNet’s point of view. There are clearly other things that a Thief (or group of Thieves) can be successful at in WvW…but I guess what I’m trying to say is:

A Rifle would be nice. Something long range, probably slower-firing, designed for sniping, ineffective at close range. Something to make me feel like I’m defending a keep with my buds instead of being all by myself waiting to jump out of the bushes at passer-by. Right now, being a WvW Thief is kind of lonely.

I’m hitting multiple targets for 6k to 7k crits with cluster bombs from shortbow when standing on top of the keep walls, and the same when we’re taking a keep…on top of that, i dont have a cd on cluster bombs, so i’m spaming that like crazy!! You rly think it gets any better than that?

I do have rly good gear already, but still, I find the thief an awesome profession for WvW as it is!

The problem w/ cluster bombs is the god awful animation on it, it takes like 5-10 seconds for thekittenbomb to land. Often people leave the area by the time it hits, I agree tho it does hit pretty hard.

Honestly, on a 30-40 men zerg hitting the keep, they only leave the area when they take the dmg…and sometimes they dont even notice until they get the second hit, by then its already 12k hp lost!

I find the fact that you can detonate the cluster bombs useless and annoying. Its very unreliable and i find myself accidentally popping it and it blows up no where near my target.

Shortbow is pretty amazing in WvWvW. I think thieves are amazing in WvWvW with the right tactics – lots of mobility to get in and get out. I like to use a pistol offhand on weapon swap for AoE blind and Shadow Refuge to stomp players safely and rez my team. Other than support I’m on the front lines killing and pushing people back – using my escapes to back off and heal up if I get low on HP.

LiquidOcelot.1508:

I find the fact that you can detonate the cluster bombs useless and annoying. Its very unreliable and i find myself accidentally popping it and it blows up no where near my target.

You get 3-4x the damage per use if you detonate it right before impact. You can rack up massive damage and bleed stacks with proper detonation.

Also, while it is way in the air you can pop it to push a smaller amount of damage out further. One small bomb flies out from each direction when you detonate, including further away from you. If you time it right after the arc apex, you will notice the cluster hitting much further out than your targeting circle went.

OMG guys Thief is the best WvWvW class. I actually 2-3 shot a glass cannon in the middle of his teammates without issues and I get out of every situation without death.

You can do sooooo much as a thief but it require a learning curve different from a simple guardian or warrior.

Maybe the thief isn’t for you.

I agree with OP, we need a range weapon with all the skills at 1200/1500 range. Could be a new weapon like Rifle/Longbow, or just a trait for the Shortbow.

It would be just good to have the option, then the profession becomes that much more flexible for varying playstyles.

Here’s what I was doing as a level 9 thief last night. Using shortbow and stealth to safeley mover from the front to the back of an enemy zerg, then firing poison and cluster bombs into their middle and back.

The confusion broke them up a bit and allowed our team to split them and that caused them to break off and we recapped our supply camp. Not all WvW tactics are based around long range assaults.

However, saying that, my main is a Guardian and despite having a better dps ranged option than the thief, it was boosted up to 1,200 because of keep assaults.

In keep assaults, the thief has little to do unless an enemy is stupid enough to stand right on the edge and you can scorpion wire them down. 900 range is just enough to reach the walls, but it’s almost impossible to aim the targeted AoE attacks with the camera, and anyone not standing on the edge is blocked from direct attacks.

The thief really does need a 1,200 option, even if it’s only the skill-1 of shortbow =/

It’s not right a class has nothing to do in a keep assault when all others do.

Cluster bomb is 1200 range and hit for 5-6k crit dmg to 5 target, the splash dmg go thru pretty much anything and alone I can take down trebs or seiges equipement with ease using cluster bomb.

Seriously asking for a long range weapon just show that you have no knowledge of your class and that you cannot play it correctly.

Thief are stealth expert and can go to point A to point B wihtin a few seconds even if you have to across a zerg or anything and to make it every more exciting it’s even easy to go from point B to point A after you are done with your mission.

Thief are just awesome in WvWvW.

My enemy hate my thief and I love it

I think the thief is supposed to be a short-range assassin. Simple as that. You can’t see him coming nor leaving. All you realize is that you’re dead.

I love playing my thief in WvW. The only really effective thing to do in a keep assault is to do cluster bomb. Else you could use the siege weapons and let those with a good ranged weapon do their stuff. You could also take supply camps and sentries tokitten off your enemy or confuse them while there’s an assault going on. Lots of stuff to do

I love the shortbow in WvWvW, one of my best and favorite weapons to use, especially in seige battles, attacking or defending.

I wade into large groups via shadowstep/stealth, drop my cluster and poison, shadowstep/stealth out, drop smoke, roll roll steal step in, usestealskill shadowstep out smoke roll roll hide.

Causes chaos.

Yeah, I get bagged sometimes doing it, but the folks say watching it from above is hillarious because they scatter like ants, regroup and chase, then have to reaquire me all over again… like a flock of birds drifting back and forth.

But seriously, no one here gets help from their allies? Thief is 3x hella deadly when there’s others who know how to save your skin and hit the combos.

I’m not saying that the Thief is “bad” at WvW. The class is great at lots of stuff. Unfortunately, it’s severely lacking when it comes to Keep attack/defense. All I find myself doing is spamming cluster shot because my basic attack can’t even reach the enemies down below (or up above). Every other class has a basic attack that reaches out to 1200. It’s frustrating and somewhat boring to be stuck using the same slow-moving skill over and over again.

The problem im seeing is that if you dont build for that real Glass cannon build it tough to take down targets with more toughness. However, That glass cannon build has the problem of surviving …

Killing glass cannons is easy for thiefs in general its the people that really stack up that toughness and Vit that becoming annoying to fight. Granted they arent our targets but that doesn’t mean we wont be fighting them.

Doom.8647:

I’m not saying that the Thief is “bad” at WvW. The class is great at lots of stuff. Unfortunately, it’s severely lacking when it comes to Keep attack/defense. All I find myself doing is spamming cluster shot because my basic attack can’t even reach the enemies down below (or up above). Every other class has a basic attack that reaches out to 1200. It’s frustrating and somewhat boring to be stuck using the same slow-moving skill over and over again.

Not every class with every weapon, really?

“Stuck” is the key word for “I lack skill”. As others mentioned above, there is room for Thieves, moreso than any other class, to go down into the assaulting enemy’s ranks, dish out some damage and confusion, and then return to the Keep safely, healing up, and doing it all over again. When those people you damaged die, you get loot bags popping up all around you. It’s great.

As for Keep assault, you’re doing it wrong. Cluster Bomb to push back the people on the wall, and to take out defensive equipment. Then go towards where your enemies spawn sitting between the Keep and your enemy spawn and pick off the people who begin running back to the Keep. This reduces the enemy force at the Keep, allowing your team to take it with ease.

Drop Shadow Refuge on your teammates bashing in a Gate if attacking to heal them and break target from any enemies. If defending a Keep, drop Shadow Refuge at the exit point of the door and let a small team come out in stealth and start picking off targets.

I love the phrase, “You’re doing it wrong.”

Used correctly, shortbow thief is godly, especially in WvW. I feel like a walking siege weapon. I don’t really see how you can be complaining about being useless in sieges.

i find “poping” cluster bombs very effective.

altho it is boring, since its pretty much the only thing you can do in a siege as a thief.

and the arch is way too big, and that means slow, its annoying.

would be nice if infiltrator’s strike (no2 sword skill) worked on uneven terrain.

Thieves are supposed to be support units – they’re not built for front-line conflict, they’re specialists. Go after targets of opportunity like stragglers and high-value targets like mages. Never get into a stand-up fair fight.

^^^^ Shoopa has it correct thats why I myself went full power/prec/crit damage you get in and you get out dont scrabbl with a guardian or warrior face to face unless their low geard or not 80 yet otherwise your wasting your time. Land those huge hits get out!!!! done deal.

I do like guerrilla warfare nothing like shadowstepping into a group of baddies, laying down 50k+ dmg with my cute little shortbow and teleporting away.

We can certainly all agree that Cluster Shot is fantastic when it lands (or pops in mid-air). The major issue I have with it is the time it takes to get to target. It moves way too slow for the speed of the game. Additionally, lobbing it upwards when I’m trying to fire it at a downward angle is just awful.

I think it’s primarily because of this behavior that it has me longing for a longer-range, more direct-damage weapon for the Thief. Maybe if it was sped up a little (or fired on a non-ridiculous arc) I would have less of a problem using it. Then I would at least be able to hit my Choking Gas from a wall before it disappears.

I just use fast cast ground targeting, get in the middle of the enemy just spam my feet, no delay, gives me enough time to detonate for the bonus bleeding stacks and slightly more direct damage.

Not to mention if you know where to aim you can shoot backwards while people are chasing you.

Vexus.5423:

As others mentioned above, there is room for Thieves, moreso than any other class, to go down into the assaulting enemy’s ranks, dish out some damage and confusion, and then return to the Keep safely, healing up, and doing it all over again. When those people you damaged die, you get loot bags popping up all around you. It’s great.

I think it is great that the Thief can do this, and they have tricks with their tactics to pull this off. I’m sure other professions do too when it comes to messing with the zerg mid/close range.

My argument is simply I want the option to pew pew from a range of 1200, and more than just cluster bomb. Perhaps this should be in the form of a trait, as some players will dig it, and others will prefer to be more effective at close range.

It seems that other professions have more flexible options when it comes to range than the Thief right now. I think adding some more flexibility to the Thief’s playstyle, through talents or whatever, is not at all a bad thing.

There shouldn’t be a ’You’re doing it wrong’, as the professions should be flexible enough to ‘Do it my way’.

Seriously, if you think cluster bomb is not a very good skill in WvWvW you’re doing it wrong. I’ve gotten gold medals in each and every single defense by using only that.

So, bottom line is…

Thief is totally viable in WvW, you don’t have to ‘only’ cluster bomb even in a siege, and we generally get to be the Pain in the Rear that the enemy hates because we’re hard to nail down.

And just to be fair, sure we’re limited in scope, aren’t melee, and can end up flatter than hammered kitten if we make even a small mistake. But that’s what walking the razor’s edge is about and that, for me, is what makes PvP fun.