Guild Wars 2

I don’t even want to start about how thieves can’t be targetet/stay invisible even though they are revealed but I just witnessed something that makes me believe, this class hasn’t been playtested at all.

So I’ve been playing sPvP on Spirit Watch, some thief grabbed the Orb and started running towards the capture Point. But wait.. did he run? No, he leaped, constantly, without a break. This made him un-hittable by anything I fired at him, even knock-/pushback missed.

Shouldn’t there be some kind of cooldown mechanism involved? How is this not broken and how is one supposed to counter something you can’t even hit?

You do realise that what you describing has nothing to do with thief abilities/skills/mechanics, right ?

Dangit sogradde your spose to be complaining about eles RTL and mistform on spirit watch not thiefs GET WITH THE PROGRAM.

Karolis.4261:

You do realise that what you describing has nothing to do with thief abilities/skills/mechanics, right ?

How so?

Sogradde.8016:

Karolis.4261:

You do realise that what you describing has nothing to do with thief abilities/skills/mechanics, right ?

How so?

“No, he leaped, constantly, without a break. This made him un-hittable by anything I fired at him, even knock-/pushback missed.” <<<—————- THAT

How is it not thief-related when a thief skill is entirely broken? Also, what about cooldown?

Sogradde.8016:

How is it not thief-related when a thief skill is entirely broken? Also, what about cooldown?

What skill/utility makes thief leap constantly, without a break and be unhittable? Thats what you said.

How am I supposed to know? I don’t play a thief.
I know you guys are cynical about this because poeple tend to give you flak for perma-stealth etc. but be reasonable for a minute here, how is it balanced when your class can take the Orb and deliver it, without breaking a sweat or even taking damage?

Sogradde.8016:

How am I supposed to know? I don’t play a thief.
I know you guys are cynical about this because poeple tend to give you flak for perma-stealth etc. but be reasonable for a minute here, how is it balanced when your class can take the Orb and deliver it, without breaking a sweat or even taking damage?

What you witnessed or claim to have witnessed is impossible by a thief class.

Well obviously it isn’t. Maybe you don’t know as much about thieves as you claim to?

The only leap Thieves have is Heartseeker. You can only use it 4-5 times back-to-back due to the cost, and it takes roughly 3 of them to equal the travel distance from another class, like the Ranger’s Swoop. If you blow all that initiative on leaping you’ll have none left to defend yourself, and travel less than twice the distance of another class’ leap in at least twice the time.
Swoop has a base recharge of 12 seconds.
It takes 12 seconds for a Thief to regain enough initiative for 3 Heartseekers.

Not to mention that heartseeker doenst let you evade and is affected by cripple which you automatically get for carrying the orb. Only thing which lets you leap and evade is Deathblossom but that thing has no travel distance at all.

I think you just withnissed a ranger with his sword leaps and took him for a thief due to his med armor and not carrying a bow, since all rangers need to carry a bow, dont they?

It was probably an evade thief.

http://www.postcount.net/forum/showthread.php?50000-Evade-Build-test

The #3 skill from shortbow combined with maybe withdraw and felines grace probably gets you a ton of evades.

Evades are no leaps though

The #3 skill from shortbow does a leap backwards

It still isnt a leap, its just a dodge.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap

swinsk.6410:

The #3 skill from shortbow does a leap backwards

ofc it was that… usually thiefs use that #3 move… its usefull to avoid and its a bit faster then run normaly but u spend 4 ini doing that… Thats not gamebreaking… why aint the OP complaining about RL insted?

I got the orb once and dodge rolled all the way to a side point. I was traited for vigor on heal, had withdraw, and had energy sigils on wep swap (bacon wings!). I tried a Heartseeker, but with the move speed slowdown, the leap lerped, so roll on roll on.

Then again, I did the same thing this weekend, but the enemy team blew out my team at the point I thought we had so that didn’t go very well for me at all.

Live and learn. Get knocked out, learn faster.

Hiho! You probably saw a combination of this.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Disabling_Shot_

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Withdraw

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Recovery

Take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSmdR74mQkM

Best regards!

Panacea.4927:

I think you just withnissed a ranger with his sword leaps and took him for a thief due to his med armor and not carrying a bow, since all rangers need to carry a bow, dont they?

Today I was on WvWvW, when a guy with two daggers jumped on someone that was some meters ahead of me.

After a blast of lightning, the poor fella got launched… Few seconds later earth exploded around him, and a ring of fire engulfed him. Some sparks later, the poor guy was dead.

The evil-doer fled, as my zerg was heading in its direction, and I stopped to rez the poor fella. As son as he gained conciousness, he screamed: “I HATE THOSE FKIN THIFFFFSSSS!!!!”

Now that I think of it, that explains why so many people think that thieves are so OP.

pesky thieves and their lightning, fire and earth attacks eh? hate em >< funny how people do that constantly really.

As for the original post unless you give us more details we can’t really explain exactly, if they where using 2 daggers they’d either be heartseeking (no evasive so your attacks would have landed) deathblossomed (evasive but slow/short and costly not really spammable for long) or one of the many variants mentioned above.

Non of which are massively spammable with no drawbacks.

Kyrion.2749:

Panacea.4927:

I think you just withnissed a ranger with his sword leaps and took him for a thief due to his med armor and not carrying a bow, since all rangers need to carry a bow, dont they?

Today I was on WvWvW, when a guy with two daggers jumped on someone that was some meters ahead of me.

After a blast of lightning, the poor fella got launched… Few seconds later earth exploded around him, and a ring of fire engulfed him. Some sparks later, the poor guy was dead.

The evil-doer fled, as my zerg was heading in its direction, and I stopped to rez the poor fella. As son as he gained conciousness, he screamed: “I HATE THOSE FKIN THIFFFFSSSS!!!!”

Now that I think of it, that explains why so many people think that thieves are so OP.

I once was in sPvP in battle of Khaylos (the one with the trebs, if I wrote the name wrong). I went to the middle and was about to attack a person there, then he suddenly got into downstate from a huge explosion…. our treb was hitting him.
Of course he said “OP thieves” to me, till I explained him that it was the treb killing him and not me.

Maybe we should rename the class just to Larcenist or something like that and let the players still complain about thieves, as they clearly just mean things which they cant handle or understand and not the class itself.

hehe wonder how long before people jumping off high places and dieing start yelling “OP Thieves”

The true OP nature of Thieves is the degree of stupidity they invoke in other people.
I seriously can’t count how many times I’ve hit someone with 1-2 Heartseekers before the person dies, only to have them shout some variation of “LAWL HS SPAM FAIL!”

Thief just 8k BS 5k Stealed me in spvp gear (so no 100+ crit damage). I’m sorry thieves but you (and I because I am one) need to get nerfed. In a game with no healers no one should be able to insta gib you. No ability in this game from ANY class should be able to do over 4k damage PERIOD. If classes can hit over 4k in spvp I think anet should really think about putting healers in the game to mitigate insane burst damage (took 15k damage in 1 second from a thief).

there are healers in game if built for it, but people won’t because they want glass cannons

And 4k even in spvp isn’t really all that much.

With a zerker amulet my base health on my mesmer (what I was playing at the time) is around 15k. Do you think it is fair a thief can 8k BS 5k Steal and 2k lightning strike proc to me in under a second? Not to mention I’m stunned by this by basilisk vennom. Also it is not a l2 kitten ue, I easily get out of basilisk venom when not instantly killed but its kinda hard to get away when 2 skills that take under a second to cast kill you.

well when they can be taken down just as easily I’d say so yeah…

B Rad.5416:

With a zerker amulet my base health on my mesmer (what I was playing at the time) is around 15k. Do you think it is fair a thief can 8k BS 5k Steal and 2k lightning strike proc to me in under a second? Not to mention I’m stunned by this by basilisk vennom. Also it is not a l2 kitten ue, I easily get out of basilisk venom when not instantly killed but its kinda hard to get away when 2 skills that take under a second to cast kill you.

Yup, because they can do the same to you.
And thieves does not simply “insta gib” anyone, but glass cannons. Or are you telling me you can easily kill bunker eles/bm~trap rangers/bunker guardians/ phantams mesmers?

True indeed – D/D thieves can go down very easily. If their attention is on another target they’re dead from any one else. I’d say there are plenty other classes doing damage that don’t go down so easy.

I can’t kill a class with 2 skills on my mesmer, so yes I do think it is over powered. Don’t forget I play the thief too.

B Rad.5416:

I can’t kill a class with 2 skills on my mesmer, so yes I do think it is over powered. Don’t forget I play the thief too.

um you can however do it with the right shatter build, mesmer my friend is one of the most over powered pvp class.

glass cannon vs glass cannon complaints are always meaningless, two people built to die instantly to kill instantly means in those fights its always those that hit first that are at the advantage. Stealth CAN give the thief this advantage but with its short time and lack of range even with mobility skills it isn’t a guarantee.

And then of course you have the fact that each profession has been designed with different things in mind, thief get the high burst with next to no staying power with a debatable mechanic to help them utilize that, mesmers will have things they excel at that others will find annoying/overpowered/broken.

Is there imbalance? probably yes, there always is specially when you have to take into account all the different player abilities and different little things that can tip things either way.

Phantom.2371:

um you can however do it with the right shatter build, mesmer my friend is one of the most over powered pvp class.

He only has to press 2 buttons to kill someone? Please inform me what two buttons he presses to kill someone in under a second with no prior skills/buttons being pressed!

Shinobi.3240:

Hiho! You probably saw a combination of this.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Disabling_Shot_

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Withdraw

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigorous_Recovery

Take a look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSmdR74mQkM

Best regards!

Another cheap and broken build for the thief. Why am I not surprised? Someone should make a thread about all the cheap thief builds with videos =). I’m impressed by the balance in the patch for the thief class..

B Rad.5416:

Phantom.2371:

um you can however do it with the right shatter build, mesmer my friend is one of the most over powered pvp class.

He only has to press 2 buttons to kill someone? Please inform me what two buttons he presses to kill someone in under a second with no prior skills/buttons being pressed!

This is getting offtopic but the standard BS thief does :
- Basilisk Venom (button 0)
- Assassin’s signet (button 7)
- Precast C&D (button 5)
- Mug (button F1)
- Move into the back of the target if needed (from nothing to press to moving around with the keyboard)
- Backstab (button 1)

So I count around 5 buttons to do the standard combo. That’s a lot more than the 2 buttons thing you mention. Let’s say he doesn’t need the signet and Basilisk Venom somehow kitten you must be really squishy then). That’s still 3 buttons at the strict minimum.

stof.9341:

B Rad.5416:

Phantom.2371:

um you can however do it with the right shatter build, mesmer my friend is one of the most over powered pvp class.

He only has to press 2 buttons to kill someone? Please inform me what two buttons he presses to kill someone in under a second with no prior skills/buttons being pressed!

This is getting offtopic but the standard BS thief does :
- Basilisk Venom (button 0)
- Assassin’s signet (button 7)
- Precast C&D (button 5)
- Mug (button F1)
- Move into the back of the target if needed (from nothing to press to moving around with the keyboard)
- Backstab (button 1)

So I count around 5 buttons to do the standard combo. That’s a lot more than the 2 buttons thing you mention. Let’s say he doesn’t need the signet and Basilisk Venom somehow kitten you must be really squishy then). That’s still 3 buttons at the strict minimum.

There were two skills he used to kill me, back stab and steal. CnD was not used, therefore 2 damaging skills was used, precasting something doesn’t espcially when it doesn’t do any damage you smart kitten

Could still be he used skills to stack might and assassin signet which wouldn’t show on the combat log.

That or you are REALLY squishy.

Had no might, I was running a zerker ammy in spvp, and since it was spvp he didn’t have 100+ crit damage. 5k steal crit 8k backstab crit with a 2k air hit (from his sigil). 2 skills cause me to die. Pre buffing doesn’t even matter no one should be able to use 2 damage dealing skills to kill anyone.

And 1 damage dealing skill like Hundred Blades?

Anyway, healing is FAR too strong in this game, so the burst players can produce is in consequence.

Healing is FAR too strong? Have you ever played another mmo where there is another player. The thief killed me with 2 skills .25 seconds. Does 100 take .25 seconds? It does not. 100 blades is channeling and you can escape it.

Sogradde. Question for you. Do you play thief in sPvP? Do you feel thief is what you enjoy in GW2 and what makes you play it? I don’t think so. So WTF! are you doing here? Atm if a thief kills you, you have NO excuse. Thief is what I want to play and if I can’t play thief cuz he became a shameful boring excuse of a class I’d rather not play at all.

P.S. I also play PVE and sPvP with: mesmer, ele and guardian. I /care about nerfing others, I care buffing thief and GTFO to all whining noobs that managed to get killed as GCs and thought that was a class being OP.

B Rad.5416:

Healing is FAR too strong? Have you ever played another mmo where there is another player. The thief killed me with 2 skills .25 seconds. Does 100 take .25 seconds? It does not. 100 blades is channeling and you can escape it.

You can also dodge any skill a thief can use on you that also does dmg. Also, if you use any skill that shields you or causes ANY of our hits to miss, those go into CD and are thus lost for the remaining of the CD. If you get facerolled in 2 sec you just suck no matter the class.

uzu.7351:

B Rad.5416:

Healing is FAR too strong? Have you ever played another mmo where there is another player. The thief killed me with 2 skills .25 seconds. Does 100 take .25 seconds? It does not. 100 blades is channeling and you can escape it.

You can also dodge any skill a thief can use on you that also does dmg. Also, if you use any skill that shields you or causes ANY of our hits to miss, those go into CD and are thus lost for the remaining of the CD. If you get facerolled in 2 sec you just suck no matter the class.

First off average human reaction time I think is around .25 seconds so you can’t dodge it (especially when the person doing it to you is unseen so the reaction time takes longer than average). Use a shield on a mesmer? And you say I suck at this game? Lastly I didn’t get facerolled in 2 seconds, I got facerolled in under half a second which is why I am complaining. Thief is my MAIN and I even think they need a nerf, as well as other classes, to make spvp better.

What I am saying is a total of TWO attack skills did 15,000 damage in UNDER .5 seconds. My health is 15,000 and in NO MMO should people get two shotted in under a second.

unfortunately this is what happens when you actively remove defense from your character…

B Rad.5416:

Healing is FAR too strong? Have you ever played another mmo where there is another player. The thief killed me with 2 skills .25 seconds. Does 100 take .25 seconds? It does not. 100 blades is channeling and you can escape it.

The high burst possible is a consequence of excess of healing. If healing was a lot more sporadic and nerfed, ANet wouldn’t have made that much of a burst possible at all and fights would have lasted much longer and be much more strategic.

Thieves in SPVP = Jesus Christ.

B Rad.5416:

Thief just 8k BS 5k Stealed me in spvp gear (so no 100+ crit damage). I’m sorry thieves but you (and I because I am one) need to get nerfed. In a game with no healers no one should be able to insta gib you. No ability in this game from ANY class should be able to do over 4k damage PERIOD. If classes can hit over 4k in spvp I think anet should really think about putting healers in the game to mitigate insane burst damage (took 15k damage in 1 second from a thief).

Well, technically, since every class has a heal ability… every class is a heal class. Secondly, if a thief is doing 8k BS dmg then they have to be specd for extremely high crit dmg % so I have to take umbrage with that statement. Third, 8k is actually no where near what a warrior can do with 100b… and you really cant say that no class should do over 4k when you must then think about how the player builds his toon… because 4k dmg is a lot if you are not specd for toughness but its nothing if you are. And I would really like to know how you took 15k in 1 second from a thief considering the high dmg burst abilities of a thief are things like CnD followed by BS… in this case, it takes longer for CnD to go off than 1 second and it takes longer than 1s for the thief to get behind and then use the BS. By your figures above (the 8k dmg) the theif would have had to pull of 2 perfect or near perfect critical hits using a BS and be able to do that in 1 second time… since that is impossible to do.. your comment is not only foolish, it shows your ignorance and bias against a class that you obviously have no clue about and have no clue how to handle in a fight.

I see the next nerf ppl want for thieves is their burst.

Maybe he had a 10 hour long vigor with 100% increase in initiative regeneration and used death blossom the entire time