Guild Wars 2

Hey guys,

We all know the thief is one of the squishiest and least forgiving profession in the game.
In PvP if we make one mistake, we are dead. If we get hit by some random conditions and/or cleave, we are almost dead. With all this condition spamming going on in pvp it becomes excruciating to fight a lot of other professions. we either have to stealth (not contesting the point) or run away from the fight (not accomplishing anything).

So what if we gave the thief a higher hp pool, as high as the mesmer or ranger? Conditions would matter a little bit less, we could stay longer in teamfights and just become overall a little bit less squishy.

Discuss….

Not gonna happen. Devs apprently think thieves do extremely high dmg (cringe) and should have low HP lol. They somehow forget when they balance thieves, that other classes do as much if not more damage while having way better survivability. You may as well talk to the wall at this rate xD

Agreed, thieves dmg is too low for their squishyness, mainly because all of the blocks, blinds, weakness, invulnerability and evades thrown around, That really reduces the dmg they manage to get off by a big amount!

Thieves damages are fine, 20k backstabs or 20k HS hurt a lot. It’s the class who get the higher damage in a meta group. And as a thief, i prefere a up like 1hp and 1000% damage modifier. Take a necro if you want higher hp pool

Gandrogh.1530:

Thieves damages are fine, 20k backstabs or 20k HS hurt a lot. It’s the class who get the higher damage in a meta group. And as a thief, i prefere a up like 1hp and 1000% damage modifier. Take a necro if you want higher hp pool

20k backstabs 20HS? You must be trolling? if not I would really like to know you do that because the most I hit my backstab is 6K on a zerker mesmer. So please, enlighten me.

PS. The thief dmg is fine if we could survive longer. The thieves problem is mainly in the theives survivability IMO.

Gandrogh.1530:

Thieves damages are fine, 20k backstabs or 20k HS hurt a lot. It’s the class who get the higher damage in a meta group. And as a thief, i prefere a up like 1hp and 1000% damage modifier. Take a necro if you want higher hp pool

Massive troll. Only way you can secure 20k backstabs is by pigeonholing your build so hard that you have to use all your utilities (signets or traps) to get might stacks. Then the planets have to align for you to land your backstab on a squishy target under 50% life. Gimmick builds without any utility or survivability.

Ok guys, I just run meta build, want to see it ?? Go to metabattle.

I just take a CoE random group (noobs rarely run this dongeon).

lol pve, lol 25 might stacks, lol npc standing still with 11-25 vuln stacks and no protection

please do it in pvp vs actual players that don’t afk

Gandrogh.1530:

Ok guys, I just run meta build, want to see it ?? Go to metabattle.

I just take a CoE random group (noobs rarely run this dongeon).

Plz read my first post better. I am talking about PVP!

Gandrogh.1530:

Ok guys, I just run meta build, want to see it ?? Go to metabattle.

I just take a CoE random group (noobs rarely run this dongeon).

Two warriors, guardian, and elementalist. If you were a mesmer instead that’d be the perfect party setup ^_^

You can get 19k on zerk thief and about 17k on a zerk warrior(both without bloodlust) in pvp but you blow all your utilities to do it so its not worth doing.

No I don’t have screenshots.

Okay back to the subject, what do you guys think about giving the thief a higher hp pool? Would it solve a lot of the problems a thief has?

Doubt it…. it needs dmg mitigation mechanics… Atm we are getting carried by vamp rune safe net but w/o it the class is simply unplayable in pvp.

Anet won’t nerf other classes, so thief generally needs some defensive passives… as much as it is cringeworthy….. There is no point to roleplay high skilled thief when everyone else is overloaded with passives. After all we do pvp to win and not feed enemies. Right now thief design is to feed enemies kills. Period. Crappy design, imo, but it is what Anet desired apprently.

Doesn’t mean it should stay that way. One of my suggestion was to introduce “cheat death” mechanic which will have long ICD and will bring thief to 10%? HP by attack which otherwise would have killed thief.

Also, we need protection and more condi removal.

Cynz.9437:

Doubt it…. it needs dmg mitigation mechanics… Atm we are getting carried by vamp rune safe net but w/o it the class is simply unplayable in pvp.

Anet won’t nerf other classes, so thief generally needs some defensive passives… as much as it is cringeworthy….. There is no point to roleplay high skilled thief when everyone else is overloaded with passives. After all we do pvp to win and not feed enemies. Right now thief design is to feed enemies kills. Period. Crappy design, imo, but it is what Anet desired apprently.

Doesn’t mean it should stay that way. One of my suggestion was to introduce “cheat death” mechanic which will have long ICD and will bring thief to 10%? HP by attack which otherwise would have killed thief.

Also, we need protection and more condi removal.

This.
Anet said warriors have to be vulnerable to condition. I used to play war and with cleanse on F1, brawler’s recovery, hoelbrak’s rune, berserker stance and trait coupled with heavy armor and 18k hp pool I didn’t fear condition.
For thieves, increasing the pool hp is not the solution. We lack of condi clear, the cleanse on invi is a good idea, but the way it is working now suck, we have some healing skills but use them for cleanse 2 conditions is not worth it if we look at cds.

Edit: I think that thieves should’nt have access to protection, the thief way to survive is avoid strikes (blind, dodge). Not to survive if catch

Gandrogh.1530:

Edit: I think that thieves should’nt have access to protection, the thief way to survive is avoid strikes (blind, dodge). Not to survive if catch

Congratulations, you unintentionally stumbled upon the reason Thieves have so many problems. Unfortunately, ArenaNet seems to listen to opinions like yours—which is an extremely common misconception—over those of actual Thief mains. Take it from us… Blind is weaker than it’s ever been and Evades are useful but not enough on their own.

While I would love for Thief to be moved up to a higher HP tier, ArenaNet seems to disagree with the idea philosophically. Even so, they need to be reminded that the two professions Thief shares the lowest HP pool with—Elementalist and Guardian—have tools to mitigate and survive damage in ways that Thief does not. Blocks, Condition Removal, Protection, Stability, et cetera… all things the Thief has little to none of.

I will shout it from the tree tops until ArenaNet finally listens: evades are damage mitigation, not durability. Thieves explode instantly when the evades run dry because they can’t take actual hits in the same way every other profession in the game can.

Other professions get strong passive durability from traits (look at that new Scrapper GM, my god) while Thief is expected to survive solely through active mitigation that runs out quickly. Until they do something to change that paradigm, Thief will continue to have the same problems regardless of how Daredevil turns out.

Higher HP would do very little for the class, it needs more defense, active and passive. Why do you think other classes got stronger after the patch, yet their HP pools are still same.

I think the best solution would be outside of our hitpoint pool. We need more defensive options aside from raw health or we run the risk of all profs eventually melding into each other.

Cynz.9437:

Doubt it…. it needs dmg mitigation mechanics… Atm we are getting carried by vamp rune safe net but w/o it the class is simply unplayable in pvp.

Anet won’t nerf other classes, so thief generally needs some defensive passives… as much as it is cringeworthy….. There is no point to roleplay high skilled thief when everyone else is overloaded with passives. After all we do pvp to win and not feed enemies. Right now thief design is to feed enemies kills. Period. Crappy design, imo, but it is what Anet desired apprently.

Doesn’t mean it should stay that way. One of my suggestion was to introduce “cheat death” mechanic which will have long ICD and will bring thief to 10%? HP by attack which otherwise would have killed thief.

Also, we need protection and more condi removal.

Thief doesn’t need more passive survivability through procs or invulns, some of the other classes need LESS of it. Raising HP pool is also stupid because it doesn’t promote skilled play at all. Protection doesn’t really suit thieves, but maybe. As it stands, in my opinion, shadow arts needs some change. Some traits should probably be added there that gives defense outside of stealth. Acrobatics is in the same situation really- it also needs changes and removed passives (hard to catch and don’t stop). You have to remember that in a team, thief is SO important, but mostly because of stealth and mobility not necessarily combat effectiveness.

I have had to my posts deleted by moderators recently, so i am going to do my best to write carefully.

Even you give the Thief the HP pool of a Necromancer, so a minimum of 19k, it will still be broken. It’s about the mechanics and not the HP.

Higher damage however, could let us ignore that 6 seconds reveal pretty quickly lol.

Quadox.7834:

Cynz.9437:

Doubt it…. it needs dmg mitigation mechanics… Atm we are getting carried by vamp rune safe net but w/o it the class is simply unplayable in pvp.

Anet won’t nerf other classes, so thief generally needs some defensive passives… as much as it is cringeworthy….. There is no point to roleplay high skilled thief when everyone else is overloaded with passives. After all we do pvp to win and not feed enemies. Right now thief design is to feed enemies kills. Period. Crappy design, imo, but it is what Anet desired apprently.

Doesn’t mean it should stay that way. One of my suggestion was to introduce “cheat death” mechanic which will have long ICD and will bring thief to 10%? HP by attack which otherwise would have killed thief.

Also, we need protection and more condi removal.

Thief doesn’t need more passive survivability through procs or invulns, some of the other classes need LESS of it. Raising HP pool is also stupid because it doesn’t promote skilled play at all. Protection doesn’t really suit thieves, but maybe. As it stands, in my opinion, shadow arts needs some change. Some traits should probably be added there that gives defense outside of stealth. Acrobatics is in the same situation really- it also needs changes and removed passives (hard to catch and don’t stop). You have to remember that in a team, thief is SO important, but mostly because of stealth and mobility not necessarily combat effectiveness.

Nobody had issues with thieves being effective in combat pre-patch. Besides where do mesmers fit in that have more than amazing “combat effectivness” while filling same role, relying on moblity/stealth etc. ? Stop spreading same horse crap propaganda like devs do on stream implying that +1 is role and thus thieves shouldn’t be able to fight anyone.

My point is, thieves should have fair chance to win fights vs other classes (maybe not all) and not being hopeless vs every single class in game atm. If for reaching that goal, thieves would need same braindead mechanics LIKE EVERY OTHER CLASS in this game has atm, then so be it.

I have had a post about increasing thief HP pool that totally ignored by the devs,I think increasing it would be significant change and would help thieves coop better-yet be still squishy.It would not make the thief more survival but it will make it viable again.

Ppl who ask for defense it is asking too much from the devs,thieves still are the assassin type and still do heavy single burst dmg on short cd’s.I think that I dont want to see thieves getting buffed as mesmers did,still want my class to be hardcore skill based.
y’know that the player is good when he outplay you as a thief(am not talking about cheese condi kitten).

As for condies,the problem is in the core game,condies should be based on two seperate stats just as raw dmg is.Im not even talking about precision,as you need Power,ferocity and precision to maxmize your dmg output.Just make condi dmg scale from two stats.let the dire rest in pieces.

I agree condi dmg needs to require 3 stats as well, precision, condi dmg, and possibly (condi duration? condi criticals?) Of course I understand that this would nerf condi hard so condi dmg should be the main stat, but the other stats can be a bit more minor.

Quadox.7834:

Cynz.9437:

Doubt it…. it needs dmg mitigation mechanics… Atm we are getting carried by vamp rune safe net but w/o it the class is simply unplayable in pvp.

Anet won’t nerf other classes, so thief generally needs some defensive passives… as much as it is cringeworthy….. There is no point to roleplay high skilled thief when everyone else is overloaded with passives. After all we do pvp to win and not feed enemies. Right now thief design is to feed enemies kills. Period. Crappy design, imo, but it is what Anet desired apprently.

Doesn’t mean it should stay that way. One of my suggestion was to introduce “cheat death” mechanic which will have long ICD and will bring thief to 10%? HP by attack which otherwise would have killed thief.

Also, we need protection and more condi removal.

Thief doesn’t need more passive survivability through procs or invulns, some of the other classes need LESS of it. Raising HP pool is also stupid because it doesn’t promote skilled play at all. Protection doesn’t really suit thieves, but maybe. As it stands, in my opinion, shadow arts needs some change. Some traits should probably be added there that gives defense outside of stealth. Acrobatics is in the same situation really- it also needs changes and removed passives (hard to catch and don’t stop). You have to remember that in a team, thief is SO important, but mostly because of stealth and mobility not necessarily combat effectiveness.

Sorry but you couldnt be more wrong about thief.Judging from your post I think you dont even play thief as much as others here played.

The most two good traits in acro are hard to catch and dont stop,and thief is not in spvp team for his stealth AT ALL.He is for the mobility AND combat effectivness.You just need to look on Sizer gameplay and see how him – doing combat helps the team,it is the thief role to +1 on fights.

Adding HP pool would not promote skilles play,it will just make thieves little bit more ressilent.It will still be the squishy class in the game…

Gandrogh.1530:

Ok guys, I just run meta build, want to see it ?? Go to metabattle.

I just take a CoE random group (noobs rarely run this dongeon).

I’m sad to know by now that thief is probably being balanced around these sorts of posts and requests… PvE heroes calling whats balanced and not. Right on \m/

Well, compared to PvP in WvW, I definitely feel the lack of HP at least.
I wish you could combine Gear, to have as much Vitality as Marauders amulet in PvP gives; with the balance of stats I need, but perhaps I need to try theorycrafting a little.

This is without WvW guard stacks; which they’ll be removing before HoT, or once that’s out.

bliss.4305:

Gandrogh.1530:

Ok guys, I just run meta build, want to see it ?? Go to metabattle.

I just take a CoE random group (noobs rarely run this dongeon).

I’m sad to know by now that thief is probably being balanced around these sorts of posts and requests… PvE heroes calling whats balanced and not. Right on \m/

They balance and test everything in PvP/ the lobby with PvP stats on static objects. Also it’s the “PvE heroes” crunching numbers and know the real offensive potential of classes which is exactly what is being discussed here.