Guild Wars 2

Even if the Backstab combo fails a Thief has up to 9-13 Initiative, 1-2 utility skills, 0-1 elite skills and their healing skill left; that’s hardly making a Thief such an easy kill as so many Thief players proclaim.

Basically i agree, although 2 secs to react, to press a key is too long….Maybe i am used to gw1, where 2 secs are too long for even a spell….

@same

It’s unlikely that they’ll change the way steal works with Cloak and Dagger, as all blink skills work in a similar fashion. Pre-casting Churning Earth then blinking into place to land it is a feature, not a bug, and C&D is no different.

I’m a thief and I am for a means of adjusting the way burst damage is administered, the stealth burst nature of thief/rogue gameplay in mmo’s is a nightmare for balance, and I’d rather see the class developed further in other directions so that we have some limited burst but other tricks and tools to expand our playstyle.

whilst there are very simple ways of mitigating against backstab spec’d thieves the means of administering this large single target burst damage needs to be adjusted in its delivery. Whilst the skill already has both an audio and visual cue this needs to be a bit more obvious. I believe if the thief was to appear from stealth with a slower timed backstab animation it would give a slightly larger gap of time to block or react.

The backstab build needs to have a larger degree of risk involved in it. whilst many may believe it already does I would claim that if you are doing it right there is absolutely no risk in attempting a backstab burst. I have not played using this spec since the beta weekends and after realising that it was possible to administer attacks that were almost impossible to respond to for the average gamer I decided not to use it again.

any balance introduction to backstab or burst specs would however need to introduce a more well rounded way of using Pistols and improve flanking strike on sword dagger.

well dont give them nerf, give them 1 sec cast time for all abilities like all classes have, no instants, and we can dodge them
btw i am a noob thief, playing it for a day, and i menage to kill lots of ppl in spvp, thats why ppl are qqing because even a noob thief can kill skilled player and there is a big problem, you dont even need a skill to kill someone with thief, easy mod on, i cant imagine what a really skilled thief would do to someone in 2 sec.

Here is what i have to say to the devs: If you are going to change something and dont have reasons other them “poeple qq” and subjective feelings about it, then there is no real reason to change it. If you make a change, you must have the right reasons to support it.

If you are going to change one specific aspect, do it so that it will not affect other possible combos after change, for example, steal+C&D, if you change it so that you cant use steal after any skill, it will not solve the problem, it will just nerf steal(basic proffesion mechanic), because you can shadowstep to the target via signet, shadowstep skill, etc. If you will change all teleport_to_target skills, you must do it across all proffesions, which must not happen because of one combo on one proffesion.
If you are going to nerf certain traits, just make sure they are not worthless after this, because thieves have a lot of useless traits already.
If you are going to nerf raw dmg, well that is just “i dont want to do my work” approach. The check out pistol whip, you did not do the math before nerfing, and it is now a joke compared to autoattack.

PS make sure that you dont nerf something, so it becomes average for builds that put all their traits utility and stats into it, because if it is average for them, then it will become useless for everyone else, and since it is average at best setup for it, then people will just not bother with that setup and will drop it(look at PW, i dont see any qq, because people dropped it, it is a joke), and it will remain just completely worthless for everyone.

And be sure to make patch notes full and provide a reasonable explanation for every fix. Like it is done in Guild Wars.

Actually he never said anything about a nerf directly to back-stab, he just said re-balancing. So guess you just have to wait and see, it needs tweaked.

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

“Unacceptable! Thief is the ultimate underdog class! You hardly ever see a thief in sPvP. It’s constantly swamped with OP necromancers and elementalists that one shot you with bleeds and fireballs. I cant believe they would nerf thief which is easily the least powerful class in the game. This is an OUTRAGE.” said noone ever.

People always overreact to nerfs. They see that their class is being nerfed and then automatically start whining. I play a thief and only a thief, and I think Backstab needs a nerf. I think Pistol Whip deserved a nerf too. Not sure on Heartseeker, but that’s beside the point.

Something to understand about thieves; they have more viable builds than almost anyone. The thief is in a great place at the moment in general. P/D condition build, D/D condition build, SB AE build, DD burst build, S/P burst build are all extremely viable, and plenty of people play other combos like S/D quite effectively. Hell, you can even make a pretty solid tanky thief using P/D and healing traits. The thief isn’t a one trick pony, unless you play it like one. If a class like necros got a nerf or two, they’d be in deep trouble. But thieves? You have so much flexibility. Experiment a little!

People play games for fun, and the simple fact is, dying to a mega burst backstab specced thief isn’t fun. If their cooldowns are up, there is almost nothing you can do about it. Are there mitigating factors? Sure. That thief is a one trick pony, if they miss they’re in trouble, you have a tiny chance to dodge etc etc, but that doesn’t change the fact that most of the time it’s instant death where you have no control what so ever. And that’s just not enjoyable.

If backstab lost 15-20% of it’s current damage (even post assassin signet nerf), the combo wouldn’t one shot people anymore but it would still be an incredibly effective skill. A zero cost, instant cast attack that hits harder than almost any other, and you want to whine about it? Jesus. D/D will still be plenty playable even if backstab takes a hit. Suck it up and learn to adapt.

In conclusion, this thief thoroughly endorses a backstab nerf.

any other nerf you desire besides the 5+ nerfs we got so far ?
how about the bleed time ?

Give the whiners the same treatment, start collecting screenshots of Eles criting for 7k, warriors criting for 12k+ rangers for 7k+ and start posting them here.

In a couple of weeks every one and they’re dog will be nerfed and every one will be happy!

It’s proven that what gets the nerf bat swinging. Is whinning + screenshots so start colecting and postig.

You see that’s the problem. You look at it and say ‘wah wah we’ve had this many nerfs, other classes haven’t, it’s not fair.’ That’s not relevant. What’s relevant is how good or bad of a position thieves are currently in. Sit back and look at the situation. Tons of viable builds, even if they do nerf backstab. Competitive in small scale and WvW environments. The thief is fine and those nerfs were needed.

You act like you are the only profession to get nerfed? Everyone has had their nerfs, guardians pretty much every patch get something else nerfed, also look at rangers. The only difference is that thieves keep finding ways to do insane amount of burst damage post nerf. Its a new game adjustments are needed to keep the game fresh and balanced. If they left it as is, it would only be a matter of time before 50% of players rolled thieves and WvWvW would be a random dodge rolling attacking air game, that seems like fun. I like attacking the darkness.

Like most thieves say, you cannot expect to win all the fights against all professions/builds, yet here you are expecting to have your cake and eat it too. (damage and stealth survivability)

Uh so now I touched the soft spot there!

“nerf thieves over and over again pls but do not touch my profession cuz its fine”

I’ll start posting screenshots soon and will be whinning like a b***x (just like you) and see what happens. If you are so confident that your professions are fine, you have nothing to fear right?!

I don’t like to gloat, but this nerf should have been seen a mile away by everyone. I’d also like to point out that there are plenty of other professions that were already pretty much bottom tier and received nerfs anyways going into release (cough necro, ele, ranger), so I really don’t think this will kill thieves to have to seek some new builds and slightly more complicated combos.

I don’t really see anything else in the game that is this strong? Mesmer’s have some things that are a bit iffy, but I imagine in time they will be adjusted. You can easily avoid most of warriors and guardians abilities, not that guardians have really any burst or major damage in the first place.

I hope they don’t change the ability to pre-cast stuff with steal. Many classes have this mechanic and it’s a good thing for the game.

Jericho.4521:

I don’t like to gloat, but this nerf should have been seen a mile away by everyone. I’d also like to point out that there are plenty of other professions that were already pretty much bottom tier and received nerfs anyways going into release (cough necro, ele, ranger), so I really don’t think this will kill thieves to have to seek some new builds and slightly more complicated combos.

Necro, ele and ranger are fine, the problem with most of them is the person behind the controls.

Not to say those classes do not have issues and things needing fixed/tweeks, just like thief also has a lot of issues that are largely overlooked..

I’ll echo my earlier statement that a backstab from stealth that applies damage in this nature needs a tweak to how the attack is shown and declared before damage is caused. I am aware (one of the few it seems) that there are cues for backstab that allow you to dodge but these are clearly not enough at present. opposition players need a bit more to react too so that a backstab isn’t an invisible guaranteed source of damage.

@Niim

I agree for the most part, I think good players represent the professions well. I’m just saying for the most part other professions have already seen a wide array of nerfs and are still alive and well just like you said, so thieves shouldn’t worry too much about what they’ll do with backstab.

One of the devs also said that they’d be buffing other areas to make up for it, so I’m actually pretty excited to see what new tactics thieves will come up with.

Jericho.4521:

I don’t like to gloat, but this nerf should have been seen a mile away by everyone. I’d also like to point out that there are plenty of other professions that were already pretty much bottom tier and received nerfs anyways going into release (cough necro, ele, ranger), so I really don’t think this will kill thieves to have to seek some new builds and slightly more complicated combos.

I’d like to point out that the Thief is one of those classes. In beta, thief was considered UNDERPOWERED. Thief has received no major buffs since then. The ONLY major difference in favor of thieves is the rendering bug.

bwillb.2165:

Jericho.4521:

I don’t like to gloat, but this nerf should have been seen a mile away by everyone. I’d also like to point out that there are plenty of other professions that were already pretty much bottom tier and received nerfs anyways going into release (cough necro, ele, ranger), so I really don’t think this will kill thieves to have to seek some new builds and slightly more complicated combos.

I’d like to point out that the Thief is one of those classes. In beta, thief was considered UNDERPOWERED. Thief has received no major buffs since then. The ONLY major difference in favor of thieves is the rendering bug.

the only thing underpowered about the thief in beta were the people using them. as you said they haven’t changed but in beta 2 I played a backstep spec and it was freaking ridiculous.

Kyus.3812:

bwillb.2165:

Jericho.4521:

I don’t like to gloat, but this nerf should have been seen a mile away by everyone. I’d also like to point out that there are plenty of other professions that were already pretty much bottom tier and received nerfs anyways going into release (cough necro, ele, ranger), so I really don’t think this will kill thieves to have to seek some new builds and slightly more complicated combos.

I’d like to point out that the Thief is one of those classes. In beta, thief was considered UNDERPOWERED. Thief has received no major buffs since then. The ONLY major difference in favor of thieves is the rendering bug.

the only thing underpowered about the thief in beta were the people using them. as you said they haven’t changed but in beta 2 I played a backstep spec and it was freaking ridiculous.

So you’re saying the problem on a class that is supposedly a noob-friendly spam class was the players playing them? How very interesting.

When Anet nerfs things based on sPvP/tPvP its not a big deal to respec/regear…..but this was PURELY based on WvW…..you nerf it I expect the 100 gold or so that I’ve spent on the exotics/runes.

It seems it doesnt matter what I say, so If I say it often enough it must be true.
I am going to go into every thread of every other class and say they need to be nerfed.
This is simple self defense.

It is sad that the whiners have gotten this far but oh well might as well join them.
Nerf Nerf Nerf.

This is seriously just stupid… spike dmg is the only reason why I even play a thief… I really really wanted to play a ranged thief… but guess what ANet… you guys messed up that balancing so badly that I had no choice but to play the only viable thief option… backstab… because everything else is awful… your terrible balancing forced me into playing a thief not in the way that I wanted to and now youre taking even that away from me? Whats the point of a thief at that point? Cause I really wanna play a glass cannon that cant deal any damage on top of that? I made a choice to play a character that has only offense… I have one hit to get the other person… and if I miss it, I die… now you want to take even the offense away from me? Now im gonna have 1 hit that wont deal any damage and after that hit im guaranteed to die… sounds like fun… if you do this, this will be the end of thieves…

I mean at that point im not even gonna need initiative cause there will be nothing useful to spend it on.. autoattack will be our best skill… you nerfed heartseeker… what am I gonna do now? Spam blinding powder for fun?

The coefficient on BS when it’s not from behind is about the same as C&D

They could easily make a from-behind backstab only be +50% more damage (it’s now 100% more), but apply a bunch of debuffs. 5 stacks of vuln, 5 of bleeding and poison.

Which would drop our D/D burst, but make D/D conditions a lot more viable.

Spifnar.4712:

The coefficient on BS when it’s not from behind is about the same as C&D

They could easily make a from-behind backstab only be +50% more damage (it’s now 100% more), but apply a bunch of debuffs. 5 stacks of vuln, 5 of bleeding and poison.

Which would drop our D/D burst, but make D/D conditions a lot more viable.

That’s a good idea so you know it won’t happen. Why don’t they just axe the thief class entirely at this point?

Give it up, BS is way too strong and easy compared to other classes. Big support for nerfbat on this one.

Jinks.2057:

Prince.3682:

Give it up, BS is way too strong and easy compared to other classes. Big support for nerfbat on this one.

l2play

If you see a thief in the distance…..chances are 99.8% he’s going to do his combo.

Adjust gameplay accordingly.

So what sort of recourse is there when a class is approchaing that can blink across the map, stealth for ages, burn you from 100-0 within 2 seconds of exiting stealth and then disappear again without fear of reprisal? Logout before he reaches you?

Or maybe you should stop being blinded by your desire for a crutch class and come to the conclusion that the devs did. BS is BS.

Shredicus.8706:

Jinks.2057:

Prince.3682:

Give it up, BS is way too strong and easy compared to other classes. Big support for nerfbat on this one.

l2play

If you see a thief in the distance…..chances are 99.8% he’s going to do his combo.

Adjust gameplay accordingly.

So what sort of recourse is there when a class is approchaing that can blink across the map, stealth for ages, burn you from 100-0 within 2 seconds of exiting stealth and then disappear again without fear of reprisal? Logout before he reaches you?

Or maybe you should stop being blinded by your desire for a crutch class and come to the conclusion that the devs did. BS is BS.

1. There is no such thing as “blink” for a thief….leave the WoWisms where they belong…
2. A pure Glass Cannon Build will not be shadow stepping across the board
3. Abuse the rendering issue yourself if you can’t live w/ it
4. If you are getting dropped in 2 seconds get some survival skills and better build
5. If the thief is dropping you in the middle of a zerg and “blinking” away he’s not stomping you….thus you won’t be dead. If you are being stomped in the middle of a zerg by a thief the problem is not that the thief is OP….the problem is you and your teammates

I agree 100%
glass cannon backstab is a playstyle. it’s risky and it fits some of us. why complain about a 8k hit with thieves that have10k HP compared to a warrior who can burst up to 20k in less then a sec.

Assassin.3927:

I agree 100%
glass cannon backstab is a playstyle. it’s risky and it fits some of us. why complain about a 8k hit with thieves that have10k HP compared to a warrior who can burst up to 20k in less then a sec.

Apparently Anet disagrees. A 100b Warrior isn’t even in the same ballpark as a backstab Thief dude.

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B (against my super squishy thief, mind you) and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/To-all-warriors-guardians-how-do-you-feel-about-thieves/first#post620542

This is what the warrior forum thinks. The majority of them think thieves ARE EASY too kill after the initial burst. The point I’ve been trying to make. Now you want to take away that initial burst and all you have is a glass cannon without the cannon part.

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B (against my super squishy thief, mind you) and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/To-all-warriors-guardians-how-do-you-feel-about-thieves/first#post620542

This is what the warrior forum thinks. The majority of them think thieves ARE EASY too kill after the initial burst. The point I’ve been trying to make. Now you want to take away that initial burst and all you have is a glass cannon without the cannon part.

The screenshot is from the 16th of october, but it shows an eviscerate hit 12k.

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.

I understand that Warriors can dish out alot of damage. Are you dismissing all the other goodies you get with the Thief profession? Do you think a Warrior does that kind of damage AND has an equal amount of mobility, utility, and survivability as a Thief?

crewthief.8649:

I understand that Warriors can dish out alot of damage. Are you dismissing all the other goodies you get with the Thief profession? Do you think a Warrior does that kind of damage AND has an equal amount of mobility, utility, and survivability as a Thief?

The only survivability that thief has is stealth. Glass cannon builds = almost no defense. A proper backstab uses your elite, and if you want the real damage you see on most of these pictures, probably using 3 signets to get maximum stacks of might. You’d still have some initiative, your stolen skill, and that’s about it. The warrior at this point probably has almost all his skills. I am a thief, and believe me or not, but the biggest burst killer is someone who knows how to counter it. If a warrior knows the range of steal, and knows how to use endure pain, you might as well walk away.

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.

Okay, fair enough. So do you feel that a Thief sacrifices as much as a Warrior when speccing full-on glass cannon? I don’t believe they do, not even close. In fact, with the amount of mobility and innate survivability (stealth) that a Thief has, I don’t see any reason why anyone would ever NOT run a glass cannon as a Backstab spec…

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

I understand that Warriors can dish out alot of damage. Are you dismissing all the other goodies you get with the Thief profession? Do you think a Warrior does that kind of damage AND has an equal amount of mobility, utility, and survivability as a Thief?

The only survivability that thief has is stealth. Glass cannon builds = almost no defense. A proper backstab uses your elite, and if you want the real damage you see on most of these pictures, probably using 3 signets to get maximum stacks of might. You’d still have some initiative, your stolen skill, and that’s about it. The warrior at this point probably has almost all his skills. I am a thief, and believe me or not, but the biggest burst killer is someone who knows how to counter it. If a warrior knows the range of steal, and knows how to use endure pain, you might as well walk away.

See, that’s the thing…I don’t have a particularly tough time against Thieves (very good players obviously can give me hell, but that’s true for any profession), but I DO recognize that they seem to have a bit more of everything than most of the other classes. You can’t discount stealth as your “only” form of survivability…it is an amazing aspect of the Thief class. I run Decoy and Mass Invisibility on my Mesmer…and those two have saved my butt a TON in WvW, I understand the magnitude of stealth in PvP.

Ragnarox.9601:

well dont give them nerf, give them 1 sec cast time for all abilities like all classes have, no instants, and we can dodge them
btw i am a noob thief, playing it for a day, and i menage to kill lots of ppl in spvp, thats why ppl are qqing because even a noob thief can kill skilled player and there is a big problem, you dont even need a skill to kill someone with thief, easy mod on, i cant imagine what a really skilled thief would do to someone in 2 sec.

No, noob Thieves can kill unskilled players and sometimes, with luck, kill skilled players. There are a lot more unskilled players than the unskilled players think there are ;-)

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.

Okay, fair enough. So do you feel that a Thief sacrifices as much as a Warrior when speccing full-on glass cannon? I don’t believe they do, not even close. In fact, with the amount of mobility and innate survivability (stealth) that a Thief has, I don’t see any reason why anyone would ever NOT run a glass cannon as a Backstab spec…

Backstab is all about glass cannon, you’re right on that. I’m just trying to point out that the only real danger you face with coming accross a thief is the initial burst, and after that it goes downhill for them. Either they run because they know they lost, or they try and stay and get destroyed. Trust me, even my non backstab condition build was rather squishy. I’ve seen many warriors that I can take on because they would make careless mistakes (running from a thief, evading forward(tip against thieves for anyone out there: Always evade backwards), being hesistant. Thieves are very opportunistic, they take what they can get, and the biggest thing that gets people killed be thieves are small stupid mistakes.

I do believe in fact that thieves sacrifice more when going full glass cannon simply because they are naturally squishier than warriors, but we also have stealth, and it’s all up to interpretation. That’s why Anet should not nerf raw damage just yet. They should fix the rendering issues first, wait a little, then move on from there.

Doomdesire.9365:

The only survivability that thief has is stealth.

this is so understated its ridiculous.

if things are not going the thieves way he can press a utility skill and gain stealth where we can no longer target him for attacks. he can then start running away and pull out his short bow, when he becomes visible he can then teleport even further away and at that point is essentially uncatchable.

my warrior on the other hand only has one option. keep fighting until hes dead.

and yet, you still think its justified that you can run away any time things are not going your way and you still deserve the highest burst and condition damage around.

its simply not balanced.

other classes cannot run away when things are not going their way. they have to stay and fight and die.

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

Right, but 100B burst build takes alot of setup and isn’t nearly as ‘on-demand’ as the Thief backstab build. And I was asking about your inclusion of Guardians in that statement. No way is a Guardian bursting for as much as a Thief.

I see I did include guardian, that was my mistake and ignore that, however backstab arguably takes the same amount of setup and isn’t on demand. No way is it on demand and if you do use it on demand (which at this point heartseeker would be much better in almost all scenarios except the original burst) it’s not nearly as effective. Not at all. It’s an intiative killer and requires your target to be off guard and not expecting it. If you’re already in the mud, backstab isn’t nearly as effective as people thinks. That’s a huge misconception. People think thieves can instantly spam backstab. And with the right skillset, it’s possible, but why? Heartseeker at that point would be much more effective and damaging.

Okay, fair enough. So do you feel that a Thief sacrifices as much as a Warrior when speccing full-on glass cannon? I don’t believe they do, not even close. In fact, with the amount of mobility and innate survivability (stealth) that a Thief has, I don’t see any reason why anyone would ever NOT run a glass cannon as a Backstab spec…

Backstab is all about glass cannon, you’re right on that. I’m just trying to point out that the only real danger you face with coming accross a thief is the initial burst, and after that it goes downhill for them. Either they run because they know they lost, or they try and stay and get destroyed. Trust me, even my non backstab condition build was rather squishy. I’ve seen many warriors that I can take on because they would make careless mistakes (running from a thief, evading forward(tip against thieves for anyone out there: Always evade backwards), being hesistant. Thieves are very opportunistic, they take what they can get, and the biggest thing that gets people killed be thieves are small stupid mistakes.

I do believe in fact that thieves sacrifice more when going full glass cannon simply because they are naturally squishier than warriors, but we also have stealth, and it’s all up to interpretation. That’s why Anet should not nerf raw damage just yet. They should fix the rendering issues first, wait a little, then move on from there.

Yeah, you and I definitely agree on the need for a fix to the rendering issue. Perhaps a fix on that would bring stealth into perspective some (in terms of whether or not it truly is over the top).