Guild Wars 2

LMAO. Elementalists seem so confused when they fight a thief and their boons suddenly disappear.

I had several people /w and /s me last night saying my build was a pain in the butt to fight against. A few said OP to which I simply replied “yes, I know it’s OP”.

Sebrent.3625:

LMAO. Elementalists seem so confused when they fight a thief and their boons suddenly disappear.

I had several people /w and /s me last night saying my build was a pain in the butt to fight against. A few said OP to which I simply replied “yes, I know it’s OP”.

So Impart – if you want the class to be less filled with noobs, answer my previous question. Please.

(1) I don’t care if the class is less filled with noobs … I care if the class rewards noob behavior (i.e. spamming)

(2) Simple. Learn to turn. Don’t use when they dodge roll.

Sebrent.3625:

(1) I don’t care if the class is less filled with noobs … I care if the class rewards noob behavior (i.e. spamming)

(2) Simple. Learn to turn. Don’t use when they dodge roll.

Thanks. I appreciate the dismissive response – I had a feeling I knew what all your boasting and superiority complex was all about, but I do prefer to be sure.

evilapprentice.6379:

Sebrent.3625:

LMAO. Elementalists seem so confused when they fight a thief and their boons suddenly disappear.

I had several people /w and /s me last night saying my build was a pain in the butt to fight against. A few said OP to which I simply replied “yes, I know it’s OP”.

So Impart – if you want the class to be less filled with noobs, answer my previous question. Please.

You can’t teach noobs, noobs want the easy way, they don’t want to learn they don’t want to practice they don’t want to improve

they want the other guy brought down to their level

Adaneshade.2409:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sebrent.3625:

LMAO. Elementalists seem so confused when they fight a thief and their boons suddenly disappear.

I had several people /w and /s me last night saying my build was a pain in the butt to fight against. A few said OP to which I simply replied “yes, I know it’s OP”.

So Impart – if you want the class to be less filled with noobs, answer my previous question. Please.

You can’t teach noobs, noobs want the easy way, they don’t want to learn they don’t want to practice they don’t want to improve

they want the other guy brought down to their level

Except that I’ve specifically requested to be taught in the masterful way that is getting FS to hit consistently. The silence on that subject however, is deafening. I think I see a tumbleweed going by too. I understand, you guys are probably just off somewhere being bad kitten with your secret knowledge you’ll boast about but not share.

evilapprentice.6379:

Adaneshade.2409:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sebrent.3625:

LMAO. Elementalists seem so confused when they fight a thief and their boons suddenly disappear.

I had several people /w and /s me last night saying my build was a pain in the butt to fight against. A few said OP to which I simply replied “yes, I know it’s OP”.

So Impart – if you want the class to be less filled with noobs, answer my previous question. Please.

You can’t teach noobs, noobs want the easy way, they don’t want to learn they don’t want to practice they don’t want to improve

they want the other guy brought down to their level

Except that I’ve specifically requested to be taught in the masterful way that is getting FS to hit consistently. The silence on that subject however, is deafening. I think I see a tumbleweed going by too. I understand, you guys are probably just off somewhere being bad kitten with your secret knowledge you’ll boast about but not share.

I’ve already said that in this thread, simply turn your back to the target, you roll into their avatar making it easy to land both strikes.

Adaneshade.2409:

evilapprentice.6379:

Adaneshade.2409:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sebrent.3625:

LMAO. Elementalists seem so confused when they fight a thief and their boons suddenly disappear.

I had several people /w and /s me last night saying my build was a pain in the butt to fight against. A few said OP to which I simply replied “yes, I know it’s OP”.

So Impart – if you want the class to be less filled with noobs, answer my previous question. Please.

You can’t teach noobs, noobs want the easy way, they don’t want to learn they don’t want to practice they don’t want to improve

they want the other guy brought down to their level

Except that I’ve specifically requested to be taught in the masterful way that is getting FS to hit consistently. The silence on that subject however, is deafening. I think I see a tumbleweed going by too. I understand, you guys are probably just off somewhere being bad kitten with your secret knowledge you’ll boast about but not share.

I’ve already said that in this thread, simply turn your back to the target, you roll into their avatar making it easy to land both strikes.

Oh man, I hope this is true. I really, really do. I literally can’t wait to get home and test this.

Assuming so, I can see how I was a fool – how did I not think to about face and expose my back to my opponent to get 1 out of 5 abilities to work correctly? IT’S SO OBVIOUS!

Knowing that now, I can totally see that FS is working as intended, and it was a Learn 2 Play issue on my end. Of course the issue I was having was facing my enemy so all my other attacks would hit! How did I not see that? Man I feel silly.

I apologize for insinuating that you 2 were jury-rigging a broken skill to get it to function as it should in the first place, then acting like the issue was on my end. The next time I roll S/D, I’ll make sure to keep my back to my enemy, the way S/D was intended to be played.

I slay me.

Or, you could develop the slightest bit of coordination (allot to ask I’m sure) and turn and activate the skill simultaneously….rather than QQing. Or….just go put the training wheels back on and play P/D or something easy like that.

Adaneshade.2409:

Or, you could develop the slightest bit of coordination (allot to ask I’m sure) and turn and activate the skill simultaneously….rather than QQing. Or….just go put the training wheels back on and play P/D or something easy like that.

You know you’re right. I should have experience, right? I mean, you have to be on a 90 degree angle with your target to get shadowshot to hit. Same for Shadow stab. and don’t get me started on Deathblossom – everyone knows you have to run through your target first, then spin around to get that one to connect. And pistol whip only works if you activate it then do a 360 before the stun swing goes off.

It’s not like your playing around a bug, and your riding your high horse telling everyone how easy it is to play around a bug, and how we’re all scrubs because we don’t. Its OBVIOUSLY just part of playing the class I guess.

evilapprentice.6379:

Adaneshade.2409:

Or, you could develop the slightest bit of coordination (allot to ask I’m sure) and turn and activate the skill simultaneously….rather than QQing. Or….just go put the training wheels back on and play P/D or something easy like that.

You know you’re right. I should have experience, right? I mean, you have to be on a 90 degree angle with your target to get shadowshot to hit. Same for Shadow stab. and don’t get me started on Deathblossom – everyone knows you have to run through your target first, then spin around to get that one to connect. And pistol whip only works if you activate it then do a 360 before the stun swing goes off.

It’s not like your playing around a bug, and your riding your high horse telling everyone how easy it is to play around a bug, and how we’re all scrubs because we don’t. Its OBVIOUSLY just part of playing the class I guess.

FINALLY, you make some sense. I’m truly sorry you insist on falling in the “refusal to learn” sect. However, S/D works just fine, as is, for anyone half-way trying, changing it will likely do more harm than good.
I’ve been using this weapon set for all 1200 gameplay hours on my thief, and feel that I’ve EARNED the right to use something that some can’t (or in your case, won’t).

Adaneshade.2409:

evilapprentice.6379:

Adaneshade.2409:

Or, you could develop the slightest bit of coordination (allot to ask I’m sure) and turn and activate the skill simultaneously….rather than QQing. Or….just go put the training wheels back on and play P/D or something easy like that.

You know you’re right. I should have experience, right? I mean, you have to be on a 90 degree angle with your target to get shadowshot to hit. Same for Shadow stab. and don’t get me started on Deathblossom – everyone knows you have to run through your target first, then spin around to get that one to connect. And pistol whip only works if you activate it then do a 360 before the stun swing goes off.

It’s not like your playing around a bug, and your riding your high horse telling everyone how easy it is to play around a bug, and how we’re all scrubs because we don’t. Its OBVIOUSLY just part of playing the class I guess.

FINALLY, you make some sense. I’m truly sorry you insist on falling in the “refusal to learn” sect. However, S/D works just fine, as is, for anyone half-way trying, changing it will likely do more harm than good.
I’ve been using this weapon set for all 1200 gameplay hours on my thief, and feel that I’ve EARNED the right to use something that some can’t (or in your case, won’t).

Me – “FS doesn’t work as intended”
High horse riding hipsters – “Duh, FS is working fine”
Me – “Nope, it doesn’t work”
High horse riding hipsters – “It works fine if you know how to use it.”
Me – “Ok, teach me”
High horse riding hipsters – “Duh, you just turn completely around before you use it!”
Me – “…that…would mean the skill is broken”
High horse riding hipsters – “DUH! IT’S BETTER BROKEN!”

I..I dont know how to make it more clear that your position is asinine. 100%, completely asinine. Rather than desiring that the skill work correctly, you’re happy with the fact that you’ve managed to jury-rig it – you somehow ‘own’ that, and the skill properly working would take it away. Zealously, you guard the fact that you’re soooooo good at a game you managed to find a way to make something broken work the way it was intended – fixing it would only cheapen that. Insisting that S/D will somehow be worse if the skill worked correctly is the icing on the cake – I’m sure you think D/P got worse too now that shadowshot doesn’t root you on hit. Do you miss running your P/P triple trap build too?

Jesus christ, let it go – the skill working properly is better for everyone, even if you do lose your hilariously sad little superiority complex based around using a broken skill effectively.

Edit: Mods, feel free to come in and shut this one down – I’m willing to bet he’s never going to get it, and I just can’t resist trying to correct stupidity of this magnitude.

You don’t seem to get it. It isn’t about some “superiority complex” at all. The skill is incredibly powerful; likely the most powerful ability we have. We already suffer from constant cries for nerfing our class. Right now, no one realizes how powerful this skill is because so few have actually figured out how to utilize it. If it ever become accessible to the masses, there will be a mass outcry for nerfing the skill.
I’m simply seeing where this fix would lead inevitably.

I’m perfectly willing to teach anyone willing to know, how to use it as is (the exact opposite of a superiority complex).

Adaneshade.2409:

You don’t seem to get it. It isn’t about some “superiority complex” at all. The skill is incredibly powerful; likely the most powerful ability we have. We already suffer from constant cries for nerfing our class. Right now, no one realizes how powerful this skill is because so few have actually figured out how to utilize it. If it ever become accessible to the masses, there will be a mass outcry for nerfing the skill.
I’m simply seeing where this fix would lead inevitably.

I’m perfectly willing to teach anyone willing to know, how to use it as is (the exact opposite of a superiority complex).

I apologize for the snark then – I did not consider that point of view.

I still disagree however – if the skill is so powerful as to need a nerf, then it needs a nerf. A skill shouldn’t skate by because it’s not functioning properly, and people don’t understand that to be used effectively they have to do something completely counter-intuitive. If what you say is true, you’re helping to contribute to how one note the thief class is in general – instead of more thieves going S/D and being effective, diverse players, we’re mostly going D/P burst because it’s clearly one of the best specs (Since we’re not aware that FS can be jury-rigged into effectiveness.)

You should be encouraging spec diversity, and hoping skills get fixed, not hoping FS continues to go unnoticed because its super powerful but hard to use effectively due to bad implementation.

Perhaps you’re correct. I would, however, rather see other classes buffed and fixed first, to maybe attract some of the current thieves.

For the good of the game as a whole, the last thing I’d like to see is more thieves being rolled due to this newly fixed awesome weapon set.

evilapprentice.6379:

I apologize for the snark then – I did not consider that point of view.

I still disagree however – if the skill is so powerful as to need a nerf, then it needs a nerf. A skill shouldn’t skate by because it’s not functioning properly, and people don’t understand that to be used effectively they have to do something completely counter-intuitive. If what you say is true, you’re helping to contribute to how one note the thief class is in general – instead of more thieves going S/D and being effective, diverse players, we’re mostly going D/P burst because it’s clearly one of the best specs (Since we’re not aware that FS can be jury-rigged into effectiveness.)

You should be encouraging spec diversity, and hoping skills get fixed, not hoping FS continues to go unnoticed because its super powerful but hard to use effectively due to bad implementation.

The problem you’re having is understanding what is intended. FS – “as is” – is what is intended, which is obviously differ from your “expectations”.

So by saying that FS is not working as intended, what you really mean is, it is not working as you expect it.

As I have explained early on in this thread, the tool-tip may be the problem and not the mechanic of the skill.

For instance, they did “fix” this as you would have expect it to function…then you cannot use this skill unless you are IN FRONT of your target. Then a new problem that would need “fixing” arises.

So, as intended for the skill, it is not a guaranteed a strike on the back since it is a FLANKING strike. By GW2’s definition, that is a strike to either the side or the back.

Therefore, FS IS working as intended, but not as you expected it to work.

Well boo hoo, right?

Adaneshade.2409:

Perhaps you’re correct. I would, however, rather see other classes buffed and fixed first, to maybe attract some of the current thieves.

For the good of the game as a whole, the last thing I’d like to see is more thieves being rolled due to this newly fixed awesome weapon set.

But you can’t fight the tide – look at the interaction we just had. I assumed you were being an kitten hat (And due to that assumption was an kitten hat myself). I’ve been convinced that S/D was utter trash because FS (its obvious best skill) wasn’t working.

I’d MUCH RATHER play S/D than D/P – I love D/P, but its just a different flavor of burst, and I’m frankly sick of being burst. I want to play a more survivable, controlling spec, and that’s what S/D offers. Instead of having fun, being useful, and getting more competent with S/D, I’ve basically been wasting my time with filler.

People are always going to flock to the fotm – I don’t think its worth punishing long time thief players to try and stem that tide.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

I apologize for the snark then – I did not consider that point of view.

I still disagree however – if the skill is so powerful as to need a nerf, then it needs a nerf. A skill shouldn’t skate by because it’s not functioning properly, and people don’t understand that to be used effectively they have to do something completely counter-intuitive. If what you say is true, you’re helping to contribute to how one note the thief class is in general – instead of more thieves going S/D and being effective, diverse players, we’re mostly going D/P burst because it’s clearly one of the best specs (Since we’re not aware that FS can be jury-rigged into effectiveness.)

You should be encouraging spec diversity, and hoping skills get fixed, not hoping FS continues to go unnoticed because its super powerful but hard to use effectively due to bad implementation.

The problem you’re having is understanding what is intended. FS – “as is” – is what is intended, which is obviously differ from your “expectations”.

So by saying that FS is not working as intended, what you really mean is, it is not working as you expect it.

As I have explained early on in this thread, the tool-tip may be the problem and not the mechanic of the skill.

For instance, they did “fix” this as you would have expect it to function…then you cannot use this skill unless you are IN FRONT of your target. Then a new problem that would need “fixing” arises.

So, as intended for the skill, it is not a guaranteed a strike on the back since it is a FLANKING strike. By GW2’s definition, that is a strike to either the side or the back.

Therefore, FS IS working as intended, but not as you expected it to work.

Well boo hoo, right?

At no point was I complaining at all about my final positioning vis a vis what facing of my target I end up at. I’m not one of those people who says “The skill SAYS it goes to his back, why doesnt it? Waah”. I’m talking about when you try to use the skill on a moving target, and you float far to the side of said target and stab empty space 10-15 feet away. I doubt the skill was intended to spin you slightly away from your target.

tl;dr – I don’t care what facing I’m stabbing, just that I path toward my target and not slightly away.

evilapprentice.6379:

Adaneshade.2409:

Perhaps you’re correct. I would, however, rather see other classes buffed and fixed first, to maybe attract some of the current thieves.

For the good of the game as a whole, the last thing I’d like to see is more thieves being rolled due to this newly fixed awesome weapon set.

But you can’t fight the tide – look at the interaction we just had. I assumed you were being an kitten hat (And due to that assumption was an kitten hat myself). I’ve been convinced that S/D was utter trash because FS (its obvious best skill) wasn’t working.

I’d MUCH RATHER play S/D than D/P – I love D/P, but its just a different flavor of burst, and I’m frankly sick of being burst. I want to play a more survivable, controlling spec, and that’s what S/D offers. Instead of having fun, being useful, and getting more competent with S/D, I’ve basically been wasting my time with filler.

People are always going to flock to the fotm – I don’t think its worth punishing long time thief players to try and stem that tide.

If you’d truly like to play a survivable S/D build, I do have one that I’m willing to share. At this moment and for the foreseeable future, FS will require some practice to master (well worth it btw) but everyone that’s tried my build has been really pleased with it.

Adaneshade.2409:

evilapprentice.6379:

Adaneshade.2409:

Perhaps you’re correct. I would, however, rather see other classes buffed and fixed first, to maybe attract some of the current thieves.

For the good of the game as a whole, the last thing I’d like to see is more thieves being rolled due to this newly fixed awesome weapon set.

But you can’t fight the tide – look at the interaction we just had. I assumed you were being an kitten hat (And due to that assumption was an kitten hat myself). I’ve been convinced that S/D was utter trash because FS (its obvious best skill) wasn’t working.

I’d MUCH RATHER play S/D than D/P – I love D/P, but its just a different flavor of burst, and I’m frankly sick of being burst. I want to play a more survivable, controlling spec, and that’s what S/D offers. Instead of having fun, being useful, and getting more competent with S/D, I’ve basically been wasting my time with filler.

People are always going to flock to the fotm – I don’t think its worth punishing long time thief players to try and stem that tide.

If you’d truly like to play a survivable S/D build, I do have one that I’m willing to share. At this moment and for the foreseeable future, FS will require some practice to master (well worth it btw) but everyone that’s tried my build has been really pleased with it.

Cool. Lets bury the kitten y internet snark hatchet and lay it on me. I tried 10/30/0/0/30 with a soldiers ammy last night and was reasonably pleased (though it is by no means well tested). What’re you running?

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

I apologize for the snark then – I did not consider that point of view.

I still disagree however – if the skill is so powerful as to need a nerf, then it needs a nerf. A skill shouldn’t skate by because it’s not functioning properly, and people don’t understand that to be used effectively they have to do something completely counter-intuitive. If what you say is true, you’re helping to contribute to how one note the thief class is in general – instead of more thieves going S/D and being effective, diverse players, we’re mostly going D/P burst because it’s clearly one of the best specs (Since we’re not aware that FS can be jury-rigged into effectiveness.)

You should be encouraging spec diversity, and hoping skills get fixed, not hoping FS continues to go unnoticed because its super powerful but hard to use effectively due to bad implementation.

The problem you’re having is understanding what is intended. FS – “as is” – is what is intended, which is obviously differ from your “expectations”.

So by saying that FS is not working as intended, what you really mean is, it is not working as you expect it.

As I have explained early on in this thread, the tool-tip may be the problem and not the mechanic of the skill.

For instance, they did “fix” this as you would have expect it to function…then you cannot use this skill unless you are IN FRONT of your target. Then a new problem that would need “fixing” arises.

So, as intended for the skill, it is not a guaranteed a strike on the back since it is a FLANKING strike. By GW2’s definition, that is a strike to either the side or the back.

Therefore, FS IS working as intended, but not as you expected it to work.

Well boo hoo, right?

At no point was I complaining at all about my final positioning vis a vis what part of my target I’m facing. I’m not one of those people who says “The skill SAYS it goes to his back, why doesnt it? Waah”. I’m talking about when you target a moving target, and you float far to the right of said target and stab empty space 10-15 feet to your targets side.

tl;dr – I don’t care what facing I’m stabbing, just that I path toward my target and not slightly away.

Doesn’t many other skills have similar behavior?

The intended use of the skill is to allow you to use it even without a valid target, that’s why you can waste your CD being out of range.

Also, as intended, allows a target to move out of the way in a split second without using dodge. Just like how I dodge arrows without actually using dodge, by simply walking back and forth.

So in the game’s perspective, your moving target is moving out of the way and as intended you are to miss them completely.

Trying to make the game predict your expectation will de-value all other mechanics I just mentioned.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Looking-for-a-survivable-tanky-WvW-build/first#post1195052

Adaneshade.2409:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Looking-for-a-survivable-tanky-WvW-build/first#post1195052

Looks interesting. I’ll give it a try.

TBH though, I want to keep testing 10/30/0/0/30 for a bit. I was aiming for something with at least 20 points in trickery for Bountiful Theft – with FS to continue stripping boons, stealing 2 of them is all of a sudden worth it. Seeing as I wanted to keep 10 DA and 30 CS, I sunk the last 10 points into trickery for 4 init on heal. Steal granting fury, might, swiftness, vigor AND stealing 2 boons from a target (regen and protection, if you can get lucky) is actually very, very nice (especially on a 32s CD). 4 Init on heal and 3 init on steal helps as well.

It’s an ok build, just not quite as tanky since you miss out on 300 healing power and 300 toughness. It does provide with more initiative, though, so you have to monitor it less closely.
I fill the role of control tank in my gank squads, locking down targets so our burst can kill them without a struggle. This requires me to be insanely beefy (I can eat a full burst rotation from a berserker GS warrior with little danger of going down for instance)

Adaneshade.2409:

It’s an ok build, just not quite as tanky since you miss out on 300 healing power and 300 toughness. It does provide with more initiative, though, so you have to monitor it less closely.
I fill the role of control tank in my gank squads, locking down targets so our burst can kill them without a struggle. This requires me to be insanely beefy (I can eat a full burst rotation from a berserker GS warrior with little danger of going down for instance)

I’m curious why he choose 0/30/20/20/0 wearing Valkyrie and using D/D.

I think I’m missing something why would he put 30pts in CS. :/

I have found the +300 toughness & healing from Shadow Arts very useful for the sword. I imagine it will be even more useful with the upcoming changes to stealth.

I’m actually confused by adaneshade’s need to turn around to get the stab to work. When I use it I simply have to turn my character to hit with each stab. There is a delay between the two that gives you time to compensate for your movement and your foe’s movement.

Perhaps what makes this harder for some to compensate for is that you have probably noticed that when circle strafing you are prone to going clockwise or counterclockwise more often than not. You have to be comfortable turning both ways quickly and smoothly to be successful with FS.

It really is as simple as turning.

Sebrent.3625:

I’m actually confused by adaneshade’s need to turn around to get the stab to work. When I use it I simply have to turn my character to hit with each stab. There is a delay between the two that gives you time to compensate for your movement and your foe’s movement.

The first strike occurs as you are still locked in animation, so it is in no way a matter of turning. The second strike, you get about .25sec to control, but the first strike (if you want the boon rip) is completely reliant on the pathing the game chooses for you…

Laika.8795:

Sebrent.3625:

I’m actually confused by adaneshade’s need to turn around to get the stab to work. When I use it I simply have to turn my character to hit with each stab. There is a delay between the two that gives you time to compensate for your movement and your foe’s movement.

The first strike occurs as you are still locked in animation, so it is in no way a matter of turning. The second strike, you get about .25sec to control, but the first strike (if you want the boon rip) is completely reliant on the pathing the game chooses for you…

You control the way you are facing before you hit flanking strike. That is how you control direction for the first strike. You then have more like 0.5 sec (seems slow to me) to control before the second strike lands. That is enough time to control your direction for the 2nd hit.

If you are trying to close on someone with flanking strike, I can imagine you’re going to miss as that is not a good use of it. I’m on top of my enemy when I use flanking strike on them and I have yet to have a problem hitting with it.

Laika.8795:

Sebrent.3625:

I’m actually confused by adaneshade’s need to turn around to get the stab to work. When I use it I simply have to turn my character to hit with each stab. There is a delay between the two that gives you time to compensate for your movement and your foe’s movement.

The first strike occurs as you are still locked in animation, so it is in no way a matter of turning. The second strike, you get about .25sec to control, but the first strike (if you want the boon rip) is completely reliant on the pathing the game chooses for you…

I did an experiment on this and I updated the Wiki with my findings — that speed buff will slingshot you away and speed debuff will shorten your pathing, meaning spinning in place.

If you think that FS is an lead strike, then you will miss more ofter. Instead, think that it is a follow up strike after you secure that your target is where you want them to be — you’ll find that it is more effective if treated this way.

Sebrent.3625:

If you are trying to close on someone with flanking strike, I can imagine you’re going to miss as that is not a good use of it. I’m on top of my enemy when I use flanking strike on them and I have yet to have a problem hitting with it.

lol, I was posting the same thing

The game attempts to compensate by some means, and can send you off course very easily, especially if your target is mobile. It is also known that the skill is modulated by speed buffs, so SoS may cause some of the problems I experience. I’m too lazy to tinker around, tho I may try tonight and make videos (without chalkboard scratches).

To say the skill is working as intended, however, is pure naiveté.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

I apologize for the snark then – I did not consider that point of view.

I still disagree however – if the skill is so powerful as to need a nerf, then it needs a nerf. A skill shouldn’t skate by because it’s not functioning properly, and people don’t understand that to be used effectively they have to do something completely counter-intuitive. If what you say is true, you’re helping to contribute to how one note the thief class is in general – instead of more thieves going S/D and being effective, diverse players, we’re mostly going D/P burst because it’s clearly one of the best specs (Since we’re not aware that FS can be jury-rigged into effectiveness.)

You should be encouraging spec diversity, and hoping skills get fixed, not hoping FS continues to go unnoticed because its super powerful but hard to use effectively due to bad implementation.

The problem you’re having is understanding what is intended. FS – “as is” – is what is intended, which is obviously differ from your “expectations”.

So by saying that FS is not working as intended, what you really mean is, it is not working as you expect it.

As I have explained early on in this thread, the tool-tip may be the problem and not the mechanic of the skill.

For instance, they did “fix” this as you would have expect it to function…then you cannot use this skill unless you are IN FRONT of your target. Then a new problem that would need “fixing” arises.

So, as intended for the skill, it is not a guaranteed a strike on the back since it is a FLANKING strike. By GW2’s definition, that is a strike to either the side or the back.

Therefore, FS IS working as intended, but not as you expected it to work.

Well boo hoo, right?

At no point was I complaining at all about my final positioning vis a vis what part of my target I’m facing. I’m not one of those people who says “The skill SAYS it goes to his back, why doesnt it? Waah”. I’m talking about when you target a moving target, and you float far to the right of said target and stab empty space 10-15 feet to your targets side.

tl;dr – I don’t care what facing I’m stabbing, just that I path toward my target and not slightly away.

Doesn’t many other skills have similar behavior?

The intended use of the skill is to allow you to use it even without a valid target, that’s why you can waste your CD being out of range.

Also, as intended, allows a target to move out of the way in a split second without using dodge. Just like how I dodge arrows without actually using dodge, by simply walking back and forth.

So in the game’s perspective, your moving target is moving out of the way and as intended you are to miss them completely.

Trying to make the game predict your expectation will de-value all other mechanics I just mentioned.

If I’m out of range, then I’m out of range – the skill still shouldn’t send me careening off to the side. And although I can’t claim I’ve -never- been out of range when this happened (I’m sure that’s the case sometimes and I just don’t realize it), I’ve used it directly after connecting with a sword swing, and still spun off too the side. There’s something about a moving target that makes the skill bug out sometimes – it’d just be nice if it didn’t do that.

I don’t think Signet of Shadows is an issue as I was running it, Refuge, and Shadowstep as my three utilities.

Enemy mobility was not really an issue either as I was largely using this on enemy elementalists who are quite mobile (ridiculously so). The times I missed them are the times an autoattack or even heartseeker (if I had been using mh dagger) would have missed them as well.

Laika.8795:

The game attempts to compensate by some means, and can send you off course very easily, especially if your target is mobile. It is also known that the skill is modulated by speed buffs, so SoS may cause some of the problems I experience. I’m too lazy to tinker around, tho I may try tonight and make videos (without chalkboard scratches).

Yes, FS is affected by speed buff/debuff.

To say the skill is working as intended, however, is pure naiveté.

As I posted above, it is as intended, which differ from what you have expected (as I mentioned to someone else a bove).

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

I apologize for the snark then – I did not consider that point of view.

I still disagree however – if the skill is so powerful as to need a nerf, then it needs a nerf. A skill shouldn’t skate by because it’s not functioning properly, and people don’t understand that to be used effectively they have to do something completely counter-intuitive. If what you say is true, you’re helping to contribute to how one note the thief class is in general – instead of more thieves going S/D and being effective, diverse players, we’re mostly going D/P burst because it’s clearly one of the best specs (Since we’re not aware that FS can be jury-rigged into effectiveness.)

You should be encouraging spec diversity, and hoping skills get fixed, not hoping FS continues to go unnoticed because its super powerful but hard to use effectively due to bad implementation.

The problem you’re having is understanding what is intended. FS – “as is” – is what is intended, which is obviously differ from your “expectations”.

So by saying that FS is not working as intended, what you really mean is, it is not working as you expect it.

As I have explained early on in this thread, the tool-tip may be the problem and not the mechanic of the skill.

For instance, they did “fix” this as you would have expect it to function…then you cannot use this skill unless you are IN FRONT of your target. Then a new problem that would need “fixing” arises.

So, as intended for the skill, it is not a guaranteed a strike on the back since it is a FLANKING strike. By GW2’s definition, that is a strike to either the side or the back.

Therefore, FS IS working as intended, but not as you expected it to work.

Well boo hoo, right?

At no point was I complaining at all about my final positioning vis a vis what part of my target I’m facing. I’m not one of those people who says “The skill SAYS it goes to his back, why doesnt it? Waah”. I’m talking about when you target a moving target, and you float far to the right of said target and stab empty space 10-15 feet to your targets side.

tl;dr – I don’t care what facing I’m stabbing, just that I path toward my target and not slightly away.

Doesn’t many other skills have similar behavior?

The intended use of the skill is to allow you to use it even without a valid target, that’s why you can waste your CD being out of range.

Also, as intended, allows a target to move out of the way in a split second without using dodge. Just like how I dodge arrows without actually using dodge, by simply walking back and forth.

So in the game’s perspective, your moving target is moving out of the way and as intended you are to miss them completely.

Trying to make the game predict your expectation will de-value all other mechanics I just mentioned.

If I’m out of range, then I’m out of range – the skill still shouldn’t send me careening off to the side. And although I can’t claim I’ve -never- been out of range when this happened (I’m sure that’s the case sometimes and I just don’t realize it), I’ve used it directly after connecting with a sword swing, and still spun off too the side. There’s something about a moving target that makes the skill bug out sometimes – it’d just be nice if it didn’t do that.

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

Even with the combination of the speed buff, I would not classify that as a bug.

As for moving target, it is the games way of lead-targetting where the projectile or moving action/skill (like leap) will try to hit the target in a location they expect them to be.

If part of a skill is movement, it should move you even if you are out of range.

Warrior skills work like this.
Ranger skills work like this.
Elementalist skills work like this.
etc.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The problem you’re having is understanding what is intended. FS – “as is” – is what is intended, which is obviously differ from your “expectations”.

So by saying that FS is not working as intended, what you really mean is, it is not working as you expect it.

As I have explained early on in this thread, the tool-tip may be the problem and not the mechanic of the skill.

For instance, they did “fix” this as you would have expect it to function…then you cannot use this skill unless you are IN FRONT of your target. Then a new problem that would need “fixing” arises.

So, as intended for the skill, it is not a guaranteed a strike on the back since it is a FLANKING strike. By GW2’s definition, that is a strike to either the side or the back.

Therefore, FS IS working as intended, but not as you expected it to work.

Well boo hoo, right?

At no point was I complaining at all about my final positioning vis a vis what part of my target I’m facing. I’m not one of those people who says “The skill SAYS it goes to his back, why doesnt it? Waah”. I’m talking about when you target a moving target, and you float far to the right of said target and stab empty space 10-15 feet to your targets side.

tl;dr – I don’t care what facing I’m stabbing, just that I path toward my target and not slightly away.

Doesn’t many other skills have similar behavior?

The intended use of the skill is to allow you to use it even without a valid target, that’s why you can waste your CD being out of range.

Also, as intended, allows a target to move out of the way in a split second without using dodge. Just like how I dodge arrows without actually using dodge, by simply walking back and forth.

So in the game’s perspective, your moving target is moving out of the way and as intended you are to miss them completely.

Trying to make the game predict your expectation will de-value all other mechanics I just mentioned.

If I’m out of range, then I’m out of range – the skill still shouldn’t send me careening off to the side. And although I can’t claim I’ve -never- been out of range when this happened (I’m sure that’s the case sometimes and I just don’t realize it), I’ve used it directly after connecting with a sword swing, and still spun off too the side. There’s something about a moving target that makes the skill bug out sometimes – it’d just be nice if it didn’t do that.

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

Even with the combination of the speed buff, I would not classify that as a bug.

As for moving target, it is the games way of lead-targetting where the projectile or moving action/skill (like leap) will try to hit the target in a location they expect them to be.

I do run with SoS – it’s not really acceptable to have to drop all speed buffs to get FS to work correctly, though I am willing try it. Still; dropping SoS won’t fix the issue completely (at least in the spec I’m currently running, since I have Thrill of the crime slotted – having to drop SoS AND change my spec to get FS to work is a little silly IMO).

As for lead targeting, perhaps that’s the case if the player running away was rapidly tapping left and right – but I don’t see many other players zig-zagging when they run though – people tend to pick a direction and move in it. If I was just shooting a little bit past them, I’d still be annoyed but I’d buy it – it’s as if I’m trying to lead target them with negative Y coordinates – if they’re backing off to the left, I careen to the right (as if the skill was trying to guess where he’d be had he been moving at the same speed and angle, only to the right instead)

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

So did ANet intend to have speed buffs work against this skill as they do? If not, it’s hardly working as intended.

I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but you’re coming at me running with the assumption that I’ve no idea what I’m doing.

Speed buff aids in the effectiveness of most skills, but can send you careening off path (and thus is a liability) with this skill. Perhaps this is my problem, but I’m not going to change my utilities because something they don’t want to correct.

I’m not saying it doesn’t hit ever, but for fear of losing my target should I roll off course, I’d much rather spend my initiative elsewhere. If that was fixed, perhaps I’d use it more often.

Laika.8795:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

So did ANet intend to have speed buffs work against this skill as they do? If not, it’s hardly working as intended.

I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but you’re coming at me running with the assumption that I’ve no idea what I’m doing.

Speed buff aids in the effectiveness of most skills, but can send you careening off path (and thus is a liability) with this skill. Perhaps this is my problem, but I’m not going to change my utilities because something they don’t want to correct.

I’m not saying it doesn’t hit ever, but for fear of losing my target should I roll off course, I’d much rather spend my initiative elsewhere. If that was fixed, perhaps I’d use it more often.

There’s also the issue that Vincent is just running off assumptions as well. The fact that it hasn’t been fixed means nothing. Look at shadow shot – it was a gap closer that rooted the user for MONTHS before it was fixed. It was obviously really dumb to have a gap closer root the user on hit, but it remained that way for a while – it wasn’t a technical limitation (the game already had a dozen skills that teleported a player and DIDNT root them), so what was the hold up?

Maybe some player assumed that it was (for some godawful reason) intended. There were some who assumed it wasn’t. As far as FS is concerned, I’m still assuming that it’s not working as intended, and hopefully it will one day soon be fixed.

evilapprentice.6379:

Laika.8795:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

So did ANet intend to have speed buffs work against this skill as they do? If not, it’s hardly working as intended.

I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but you’re coming at me running with the assumption that I’ve no idea what I’m doing.

Speed buff aids in the effectiveness of most skills, but can send you careening off path (and thus is a liability) with this skill. Perhaps this is my problem, but I’m not going to change my utilities because something they don’t want to correct.

I’m not saying it doesn’t hit ever, but for fear of losing my target should I roll off course, I’d much rather spend my initiative elsewhere. If that was fixed, perhaps I’d use it more often.

There’s also the issue that Vincent is just running off assumptions as well. The fact that it hasn’t been fixed means nothing. Look at shadow shot – it was a gap closer that rooted the user for MONTHS before it was fixed. It was obviously really dumb to have a gap closer root the user on hit, but it remained that way for a while – it wasn’t a technical limitation (the game already had a dozen skills that teleported a player and DIDNT root them), so what was the hold up?

Maybe some player assumed that it was (for some godawful reason) intended. There were some who assumed it wasn’t. As far as FS is concerned, I’m still assuming that it’s not working as intended, and hopefully it will one day soon be fixed.

Yes, I am running under the assumption that it is working as intended in comparison to what is expected.

The intention of the skill is to evade by spinning then stab-stab. That is accomplished.

Other factors like slingshotting, missing, wrong direction, speed factor, etc. is something else outside the main intention of the skill.

That is why, trying to “fix” FS may not be the fix that is needed.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Laika.8795:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

So did ANet intend to have speed buffs work against this skill as they do? If not, it’s hardly working as intended.

I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but you’re coming at me running with the assumption that I’ve no idea what I’m doing.

Speed buff aids in the effectiveness of most skills, but can send you careening off path (and thus is a liability) with this skill. Perhaps this is my problem, but I’m not going to change my utilities because something they don’t want to correct.

I’m not saying it doesn’t hit ever, but for fear of losing my target should I roll off course, I’d much rather spend my initiative elsewhere. If that was fixed, perhaps I’d use it more often.

There’s also the issue that Vincent is just running off assumptions as well. The fact that it hasn’t been fixed means nothing. Look at shadow shot – it was a gap closer that rooted the user for MONTHS before it was fixed. It was obviously really dumb to have a gap closer root the user on hit, but it remained that way for a while – it wasn’t a technical limitation (the game already had a dozen skills that teleported a player and DIDNT root them), so what was the hold up?

Maybe some player assumed that it was (for some godawful reason) intended. There were some who assumed it wasn’t. As far as FS is concerned, I’m still assuming that it’s not working as intended, and hopefully it will one day soon be fixed.

Yes, I am running under the assumption that it is working as intended in comparison to what is expected.

The intention of the skill is to evade by spinning then stab-stab. That is accomplished.

Other factors like slingshotting, missing, wrong direction, speed factor, etc. is something else outside the main intention of the skill.

That is why, trying to “fix” FS may not be the fix that is needed.

Your definition is extremely literal and stifling, to the point where its hard not to think there’s some willful disbelief involved.

I doubt Anet designed the skill to simply “Spin and stab stab”, because it’d be useless against moving targets. There has to be some consideration for “target and user are both moving”, since standing still in PvP is a death sentence, and experienced players don’t stand still.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Adaneshade.2409:

It’s an ok build, just not quite as tanky since you miss out on 300 healing power and 300 toughness. It does provide with more initiative, though, so you have to monitor it less closely.
I fill the role of control tank in my gank squads, locking down targets so our burst can kill them without a struggle. This requires me to be insanely beefy (I can eat a full burst rotation from a berserker GS warrior with little danger of going down for instance)

I’m curious why he choose 0/30/20/20/0 wearing Valkyrie and using D/D.

I think I’m missing something why would he put 30pts in CS. :/

30 in CS gets you either 100% chance to crit from stealth or 20% more damage to targets under 50%. Possibly 2 of the strongest traits we have aside from maybe mug.

Sebrent.3625:

I have found the +300 toughness & healing from Shadow Arts very useful for the sword. I imagine it will be even more useful with the upcoming changes to stealth.

I’m actually confused by adaneshade’s need to turn around to get the stab to work. When I use it I simply have to turn my character to hit with each stab. There is a delay between the two that gives you time to compensate for your movement and your foe’s movement.

Perhaps what makes this harder for some to compensate for is that you have probably noticed that when circle strafing you are prone to going clockwise or counterclockwise more often than not. You have to be comfortable turning both ways quickly and smoothly to be successful with FS.

It really is as simple as turning.

If you look carefully at what you’re doing while turning, You’ll see that you move the mouse the distance needed to do a 180. I do it while the ability is casting ofc. The concept is the same, I’m just trying to make it more scientific and less by “feel” for people.

Meh. Feel = Mastery ;-)

… Largely because it is derived from practice.

Sebrent.3625:

Meh. Feel = Mastery ;-)

Well, obviously, but it’s hard to describe “feel” to a player without any context.

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Laika.8795:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

So did ANet intend to have speed buffs work against this skill as they do? If not, it’s hardly working as intended.

I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but you’re coming at me running with the assumption that I’ve no idea what I’m doing.

Speed buff aids in the effectiveness of most skills, but can send you careening off path (and thus is a liability) with this skill. Perhaps this is my problem, but I’m not going to change my utilities because something they don’t want to correct.

I’m not saying it doesn’t hit ever, but for fear of losing my target should I roll off course, I’d much rather spend my initiative elsewhere. If that was fixed, perhaps I’d use it more often.

There’s also the issue that Vincent is just running off assumptions as well. The fact that it hasn’t been fixed means nothing. Look at shadow shot – it was a gap closer that rooted the user for MONTHS before it was fixed. It was obviously really dumb to have a gap closer root the user on hit, but it remained that way for a while – it wasn’t a technical limitation (the game already had a dozen skills that teleported a player and DIDNT root them), so what was the hold up?

Maybe some player assumed that it was (for some godawful reason) intended. There were some who assumed it wasn’t. As far as FS is concerned, I’m still assuming that it’s not working as intended, and hopefully it will one day soon be fixed.

Yes, I am running under the assumption that it is working as intended in comparison to what is expected.

The intention of the skill is to evade by spinning then stab-stab. That is accomplished.

Other factors like slingshotting, missing, wrong direction, speed factor, etc. is something else outside the main intention of the skill.

That is why, trying to “fix” FS may not be the fix that is needed.

Your definition is extremely literal and stifling, to the point where its hard not to think there’s some willful disbelief involved.

I doubt Anet designed the skill to simply “Spin and stab stab”, because it’d be useless against moving targets. There has to be some consideration for “target and user are both moving”, since standing still in PvP is a death sentence, and experienced players don’t stand still.

Like I said. That moving target factor may not be directly caused by FS. I suspect that it is something else outside the scope of the skill itself, thus “fixing” this skill may not be fixing the root problem.

Run these tests;
- FS to a Dummy
- FS to an Asura size target
- FS to a Human size target
- FS to a Norn size target
- FS to a Oakheart size target

Add speedbuff, repeat
Then test on target of same size that gives CC (i.e. Norn size Icebrood)

You’ll find that certain target meet the expectations and other targets do not. Since that is the case, I have concluded in my own testing that this issue is beyond the skill itself.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Laika.8795:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

So did ANet intend to have speed buffs work against this skill as they do? If not, it’s hardly working as intended.

I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but you’re coming at me running with the assumption that I’ve no idea what I’m doing.

Speed buff aids in the effectiveness of most skills, but can send you careening off path (and thus is a liability) with this skill. Perhaps this is my problem, but I’m not going to change my utilities because something they don’t want to correct.

I’m not saying it doesn’t hit ever, but for fear of losing my target should I roll off course, I’d much rather spend my initiative elsewhere. If that was fixed, perhaps I’d use it more often.

There’s also the issue that Vincent is just running off assumptions as well. The fact that it hasn’t been fixed means nothing. Look at shadow shot – it was a gap closer that rooted the user for MONTHS before it was fixed. It was obviously really dumb to have a gap closer root the user on hit, but it remained that way for a while – it wasn’t a technical limitation (the game already had a dozen skills that teleported a player and DIDNT root them), so what was the hold up?

Maybe some player assumed that it was (for some godawful reason) intended. There were some who assumed it wasn’t. As far as FS is concerned, I’m still assuming that it’s not working as intended, and hopefully it will one day soon be fixed.

Yes, I am running under the assumption that it is working as intended in comparison to what is expected.

The intention of the skill is to evade by spinning then stab-stab. That is accomplished.

Other factors like slingshotting, missing, wrong direction, speed factor, etc. is something else outside the main intention of the skill.

That is why, trying to “fix” FS may not be the fix that is needed.

Your definition is extremely literal and stifling, to the point where its hard not to think there’s some willful disbelief involved.

I doubt Anet designed the skill to simply “Spin and stab stab”, because it’d be useless against moving targets. There has to be some consideration for “target and user are both moving”, since standing still in PvP is a death sentence, and experienced players don’t stand still.

Like I said. That moving target factor may not be directly caused by FS. I suspect that it is something else outside the scope of the skill itself, thus “fixing” this skill may not be fixing the root problem.

Run these tests;
- FS to a Dummy
- FS to an Asura size target
- FS to a Human size target
- FS to a Norn size target
- FS to a Oakheart size target

Add speedbuff, repeat
Then test on target of same size that gives CC (i.e. Norn size Icebrood)

You’ll find that certain target meet the expectations and other targets do not. Since that is the case, I have concluded in my own testing that this issue is beyond the skill itself.

When I say “fix the skill”, I do not literally mean “examine the code that comprises the skills functions (und only that code!) and make it work right”.

I mean “fix whatever the underlying issue is that causes FS to bug out.”

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Laika.8795:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

So did ANet intend to have speed buffs work against this skill as they do? If not, it’s hardly working as intended.

I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but you’re coming at me running with the assumption that I’ve no idea what I’m doing.

Speed buff aids in the effectiveness of most skills, but can send you careening off path (and thus is a liability) with this skill. Perhaps this is my problem, but I’m not going to change my utilities because something they don’t want to correct.

I’m not saying it doesn’t hit ever, but for fear of losing my target should I roll off course, I’d much rather spend my initiative elsewhere. If that was fixed, perhaps I’d use it more often.

There’s also the issue that Vincent is just running off assumptions as well. The fact that it hasn’t been fixed means nothing. Look at shadow shot – it was a gap closer that rooted the user for MONTHS before it was fixed. It was obviously really dumb to have a gap closer root the user on hit, but it remained that way for a while – it wasn’t a technical limitation (the game already had a dozen skills that teleported a player and DIDNT root them), so what was the hold up?

Maybe some player assumed that it was (for some godawful reason) intended. There were some who assumed it wasn’t. As far as FS is concerned, I’m still assuming that it’s not working as intended, and hopefully it will one day soon be fixed.

Yes, I am running under the assumption that it is working as intended in comparison to what is expected.

The intention of the skill is to evade by spinning then stab-stab. That is accomplished.

Other factors like slingshotting, missing, wrong direction, speed factor, etc. is something else outside the main intention of the skill.

That is why, trying to “fix” FS may not be the fix that is needed.

Your definition is extremely literal and stifling, to the point where its hard not to think there’s some willful disbelief involved.

I doubt Anet designed the skill to simply “Spin and stab stab”, because it’d be useless against moving targets. There has to be some consideration for “target and user are both moving”, since standing still in PvP is a death sentence, and experienced players don’t stand still.

Like I said. That moving target factor may not be directly caused by FS. I suspect that it is something else outside the scope of the skill itself, thus “fixing” this skill may not be fixing the root problem.

Run these tests;
- FS to a Dummy
- FS to an Asura size target
- FS to a Human size target
- FS to a Norn size target
- FS to a Oakheart size target

Add speedbuff, repeat
Then test on target of same size that gives CC (i.e. Norn size Icebrood)

You’ll find that certain target meet the expectations and other targets do not. Since that is the case, I have concluded in my own testing that this issue is beyond the skill itself.

When I say “fix the skill”, I do not literally mean “examine the code that comprises the skills functions (und only that code!) and make it work right”.

I mean “fix whatever the underlying issue is that causes FS to bug out.”

That’s different from what you have been saying, now that you are presented with facts, you change your stance.

As I’ve been saying, you might see that “FS bugs out” but it’s not really FS that bugs. And to prove that is running the test I’ve suggested.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

Laika.8795:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

One noticeable reason to have caused you to slingshot to the side is having a speed buff when using FS. If that is caused by something else other than that, then it might be a bug. But to validate a bug, the alledge bug must be easily replicated, if not, then it might be caused by some other unknown factor.

So did ANet intend to have speed buffs work against this skill as they do? If not, it’s hardly working as intended.

I’m not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but you’re coming at me running with the assumption that I’ve no idea what I’m doing.

Speed buff aids in the effectiveness of most skills, but can send you careening off path (and thus is a liability) with this skill. Perhaps this is my problem, but I’m not going to change my utilities because something they don’t want to correct.

I’m not saying it doesn’t hit ever, but for fear of losing my target should I roll off course, I’d much rather spend my initiative elsewhere. If that was fixed, perhaps I’d use it more often.

There’s also the issue that Vincent is just running off assumptions as well. The fact that it hasn’t been fixed means nothing. Look at shadow shot – it was a gap closer that rooted the user for MONTHS before it was fixed. It was obviously really dumb to have a gap closer root the user on hit, but it remained that way for a while – it wasn’t a technical limitation (the game already had a dozen skills that teleported a player and DIDNT root them), so what was the hold up?

Maybe some player assumed that it was (for some godawful reason) intended. There were some who assumed it wasn’t. As far as FS is concerned, I’m still assuming that it’s not working as intended, and hopefully it will one day soon be fixed.

Yes, I am running under the assumption that it is working as intended in comparison to what is expected.

The intention of the skill is to evade by spinning then stab-stab. That is accomplished.

Other factors like slingshotting, missing, wrong direction, speed factor, etc. is something else outside the main intention of the skill.

That is why, trying to “fix” FS may not be the fix that is needed.

Your definition is extremely literal and stifling, to the point where its hard not to think there’s some willful disbelief involved.

I doubt Anet designed the skill to simply “Spin and stab stab”, because it’d be useless against moving targets. There has to be some consideration for “target and user are both moving”, since standing still in PvP is a death sentence, and experienced players don’t stand still.

Like I said. That moving target factor may not be directly caused by FS. I suspect that it is something else outside the scope of the skill itself, thus “fixing” this skill may not be fixing the root problem.

Run these tests;
- FS to a Dummy
- FS to an Asura size target
- FS to a Human size target
- FS to a Norn size target
- FS to a Oakheart size target

Add speedbuff, repeat
Then test on target of same size that gives CC (i.e. Norn size Icebrood)

You’ll find that certain target meet the expectations and other targets do not. Since that is the case, I have concluded in my own testing that this issue is beyond the skill itself.

When I say “fix the skill”, I do not literally mean “examine the code that comprises the skills functions (und only that code!) and make it work right”.

I mean “fix whatever the underlying issue is that causes FS to bug out.”

That’s different from what you have been saying, now that you are presented with facts, you change your stance.

As I’ve been saying, you might see that “FS bugs out” but it’s not really FS that bugs. And to prove that is running the test I’ve suggested.

You’re kidding, right? Did anyone else think I meant “Fix FS by literally only changing FS”, or that maybe I meant “fix FS by fixing whatever the reason it bugs out is”
What would I have to gain by being so granular? I just want to the skill to work consistently correctly- whatever it is thats preventing it, fix that thing. Jeez.

evilapprentice.6379:

You’re kidding, right? Did anyone else think I meant “Fix FS by literally only changing FS”, or that maybe I meant “fix FS by fixing whatever the reason it bugs out is”
What would I have to gain by being so granular? I just want to the skill to work consistently correctly- whatever it is thats preventing it, fix that thing. Jeez.

Have you forgotten this already?

evilapprentice.6379:

Oh cool, I’ll specifically dedicate a utility to make one of my poorly designed and poorly functioning weapon skills work! That’s much easier than expecting Anet to fix the ability so it works in and of itself, with no outside help, like every other single weapon skill in the game was designed to do.

If you don’t like my suggestion, feel free to express your opinion without being condescending or an kitten. If you can’t do that, do not bother.

Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-should-ignore-block/first#post1654232

I say, you became unconfortable in that position that you have to change your stance.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

evilapprentice.6379:

You’re kidding, right? Did anyone else think I meant “Fix FS by literally only changing FS”, or that maybe I meant “fix FS by fixing whatever the reason it bugs out is”
What would I have to gain by being so granular? I just want to the skill to work consistently correctly- whatever it is thats preventing it, fix that thing. Jeez.

Have you forgotten this already?

evilapprentice.6379:

Oh cool, I’ll specifically dedicate a utility to make one of my poorly designed and poorly functioning weapon skills work! That’s much easier than expecting Anet to fix the ability so it works in and of itself, with no outside help, like every other single weapon skill in the game was designed to do.

If you don’t like my suggestion, feel free to express your opinion without being condescending or an kitten. If you can’t do that, do not bother.

Link: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thieves-should-ignore-block/first#post1654232

I say, you became unconfortable in that position that you have to change your stance.

Analogy time, I suppose.

The power in my house goes out – I give the power company a call.
Me: “Hey, the power in my house is out. Fix it.”
Company: “Sir, we can’t come into your home and redo the wiring.”
Me: “What? No, my house has no power, fix it.”
Company: “Again Sir, we can’t fix the wiring in your house. We do see that a transformer is out in your neighborhood tho”.
Me: “Jesus, yeah, fix it.”
Company: “Well that’s not what you asked us to do, now is it?”

There you go – a conversation that will never happen anywhere ever between 2 people with the barest shred of common sense.

When I said “fix the weaponskill”, I very obviously meant “Fix whatever it is that makes the weaponskill not work consistently and as intended”, just like in my analogy, I said “fix the power in my house”, I meant “fix whatever reason is behind my house not having power” not literally "Fix the power in my house by specifically fixing something in my house. that is the only way i want my power turned back on. I assumed the issue was at the weaponskill level, but my request that it be fixed was a universal one.
Perhaps you have a very literal take on the english language, but I’ve never met someone like that.