Guild Wars 2

MrForz.1953:

Another often underrated stratagem is to exploit their often oversized ego. Make baits, get them to make a choice between leaving for recovery of finishing the job, you’d be surprised about the number of thieves choosing the latter option just to get completly wrecked when falling for it. Of course, it’s all psychology, and being an Engineer surely does help, but I’m sure that alot of other classes can eventually pull it off, the Guardian, the Warrior, the Mesmer, the Elementalist, and maybee… the Ranger.

The trolliest thing I’ve ever done to myself was fight this engi with my tank/control warrior. Every time I’d cripple the engi, it’d give immobilize. Problem is, the engi would go invisible every time I immobilized him. There was nothing I could do since everything I did would cripple/immo the guy but by the time I’d get to where the guy went invisible, he would no longer be immobilized. Not to mention the engi was tanky enough that even if I managed to land everything on the guy, he could just laugh it off.

Not to mention you could have just dropped a smart stealth trap. They’re not expensive and you had 4 people. If a thief trips one of those, it’s insta tears as it usually means they have to hide very far away for the next 30s, or die.

has someone already posted a link to the stealth disruptor trap? If not, use a stealth disruptor trap. 30s revealed, if you have any number of competent players that should be a dead thief not wasting people’s time.

I noticed this gem

“someone posted DAOC stealth mechanics in another thread but missed some of those points. I think DAOC had it done brilliantly. Never played the game but it sounds great. Thieves already have the highest mobility so stealth should be dealt this way and it wouldn’t completely destroy the class, some skills would need a rework of course.”

The whining about stealth in DAOC was epic. I mean EPIC. Much worse than in GW2.

People whine about stealth but not their own overpowered abilities in MMOs.

Truth.

And it’s because they don’t like it they complain.

Stealth attacks were unstoppable in DAOC vanilla.

Imagine a dude who can wait in stealth FOREVER then when he wants to kill you he does and you die and there is no counter at all and most times he gets off scot free.

GW2 had one button real perma stealth and then Ultra high burst combined with initially unpurgable stun CC.

Perforate Artery, Creeping Death, Stunning Stab = dead. The second was a FOUR SECOND stun.

This followed by a Dragonfang, which was an 8 second stun if they were still alive (this for infiltrators).

You have no idea about the whining level in DAOC vs GW2.

Please. Stop. With. That.

This in no way describes GW2 stealth.

I main a necro(for now…). I am unable to catch any prof, if it decides to run from me. Also I usually am unable to escape if I want to run from something (talking about WvW). Yea thieves can escape. But they are THIEVES. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

Because people should be forced into using a in game item just to counter a profession specific skill. Sounds like great balance instead of just getting rid of the current version of stealth.

The only reason this thief wasted your groups time, was because your group let him. Why didn’t you all just leave?

Sorry to disappoint you, but thief was made specifically to not get caught. A thief is supposed to take out key targets to win the fight and to do that he can’t get caught. And to balance this if he does get caught his low defenses will show.

To the op
1. You could have used anti stealth trap I myself have been hit by these many times while hiding in a tower .

2. You could leave one competent person behind to guard the tower.

animalmom.1062:

I noticed this gem

“someone posted DAOC stealth mechanics in another thread but missed some of those points. I think DAOC had it done brilliantly. Never played the game but it sounds great. Thieves already have the highest mobility so stealth should be dealt this way and it wouldn’t completely destroy the class, some skills would need a rework of course.”

The whining about stealth in DAOC was epic. I mean EPIC. Much worse than in GW2.

People whine about stealth but not their own overpowered abilities in MMOs.

Truth.

And it’s because they don’t like it they complain.

Stealth attacks were unstoppable in DAOC vanilla.

Imagine a dude who can wait in stealth FOREVER then when he wants to kill you he does and you die and there is no counter at all and most times he gets off scot free.

GW2 had one button real perma stealth and then Ultra high burst combined with initially unpurgable stun CC.

Perforate Artery, Creeping Death, Stunning Stab = dead. The second was a FOUR SECOND stun.

This followed by a Dragonfang, which was an 8 second stun if they were still alive (this for infiltrators).

You have no idea about the whining level in DAOC vs GW2.

Please. Stop. With. That.

This in no way describes GW2 stealth.

I hated DAOC stealthers. I played them to learn what they are capable of. I still hated them. I thought they were OP at first (DAOC was my first MMORPG, I was a nub haha), I was wrong. Stealthers in DAOC were well balanced.

Quick Rundown:

Stealth:

DAOC Stealther: Perma Stealth: Used for limited scouting and high spike damage from stealth. Fastest stealth was normal run speed, stealth was broken by even 1 damage, stealth was broken if you attacked someone. You had to train in stealth or it was weak. People not fully invested in stealth could be seen more easily with more people and with closer distances. People fully invested could dance around you in permastealth until you managed to hit them once. You could not restealth while in combat outside of a long cooldown (5 minute) skill called vanish. When out of stealth you were a weaker version of melee DPS classes. Impossible to keep eyes on groups with speed as they left you in the dust easily. There were specific skills and traps to counter stealth and AOE, GTAOE, and cone attacks naturally countered stealth. Other stealthers could see you far more easily as well. Cannot easily disengage outside of killing a target or using the 5 minute cooldown of vanish

Guild Wars 2 Thief: Used for everything. Spam-able stealth that lets you enter and exit it at will. You can heal, use abilities, etc while in stealth. You can stay actively stealthed quite alot without any build investment. You can keep up with zergs and groups on the move and with stealth evade their attempts to remove your eyes on them. Revealed for 3 seconds after attacking is the only limitation. Nobody can see you while you are stealthed and the only ability/skill counters take extremely high investment in either WXP for a limited area of protection arrow cart or single use traps which would be extremely expensive if they were commonly used. Can disengage at will.

Advantage: Guild Wars 2 Thief. Almost no limitations, almost no counters, useful in any situation vs the permanent but highly limited and niche DAOC stealth with tons of counters.

Damage:

DAOC Stealther: High single target damage from stealth. Possible zerker builds focusing on weapon and poison damage, but niche use and not truly competitive in most combat. No appreciable AOE damage to speak of, little to no ranged damage to speak of.

Guild Wars 2 Thief: Can have high single target damage from stealth, high weapon damage, moderate to high ranged damage, and moderate AOE damage all in a single build.

Advantage: Guild Wars 2 Thief: Being able to have high initiation damage from stealth capable of killing squishy builds in a matter of seconds inside one rotation both are even. However Guild Wars 2 thief clearly has a large advantage in every other damage situation. They can reapply stealth for more bursts, they can do significant ranged damage, and they can apply moderate AOE damage. DAOC stealthers had little to no ranged damage and no AOE damage at all.

The Guild Wars 2 thief is a much much much stronger stealth class than the DAOC stealthers ever were. All DAOC stealthers could do is quickly take out the squishiest people. Guild Wars 2 thieves can do that, are far less limited on stealth, have less counters, do more damage by far in all other situations, and have a far higher mobility.

Rastaman.9015:

Sorry to disappoint you, but thief was made specifically to not get caught. A thief is supposed to take out key targets to win the fight and to do that he can’t get caught. And to balance this if he does get caught his low defenses will show.

So if you are built to not get caught then you getting caught was your own misplaying. therefore you are saying thieves are not intended to get caught and ergo not intended to die?

Because honestly if you don’t get caught your low defenses will never show.

randomfightfan.4091:

Not to mention you could have just dropped a smart stealth trap. They’re not expensive and you had 4 people. If a thief trips one of those, it’s insta tears as it usually means they have to hide very far away for the next 30s, or die.

What class do thief have to drop 15 badges and some karma to defeat and how does that make good class balance if you have to buy outside help from your class to counter somenoe?

Tengu.4209:

Thieves have to deal with other Thieves aswell. We know how to deal with them because we are them.

Shadow refuge out.

There is so much wrong with your lsit of advice that I wont even go there, but thieves with this much stealth could easily res each other from stealth against a rifle warrior even if they did manage to pull off hitting an invisible target with a hughely obvious attack.

Trolls holding onto their troll mechanics, get real

Ralathar.7236:

randomfightfan.4091:

Not to mention you could have just dropped a smart stealth trap. They’re not expensive and you had 4 people. If a thief trips one of those, it’s insta tears as it usually means they have to hide very far away for the next 30s, or die.

What class do thief have to drop 15 badges and some karma to defeat and how does that make good class balance if you have to buy outside help from your class to counter somenoe?

We use it against thieves. Imagine that, thieves actually fighting thieves. We don’t actually need to use the traps though, they just making beating a thief stupidly easy. Thing is, most of the time, we don’t complain about a class being op, instead we actually learn to play against said class. Some builds you usually won’t beat and others you will almost always beat. We might do a feeler attack and if the enemy is rocking a build that is very good against thieves, I will just not commit to fighting them. Try learning to play against thieves before complain that they’re op b/c you can’t play against thieves. Thieves are actively trying to learn to play against you. Every minute you spend qqing here is a minute where those thieves are siphoning even more tears to fuel their steal.

Pro tip. When playing against a thief, I like to let them open (and avoid the damage best I can) then counter. They stuff will be down and they’ll be very vulnerable. If they don’t go down, then they’ve probably ran away. In that case, my work is done, I have won, I move on. Sorry I don’t qq about every lost loot ba\

Edit. After writting this I realized I was also replying to a few of the massive qqers in this thread but intertwined my response with them into my response to you Ral. Sorry if I offended you when it seems like you were trying to ask a legit question.

Vanthian.9267:

Because people should be forced into using a in game item just to counter a profession specific skill. Sounds like great balance instead of just getting rid of the current version of stealth.

You don’t need an item to beat a thief, only skill. But hey, it’s WvWvW crowd here afterall…

Asomal.6453:

Vanthian.9267:

Because people should be forced into using a in game item just to counter a profession specific skill. Sounds like great balance instead of just getting rid of the current version of stealth.

You don’t need an item to beat a thief, only skill. But hey, it’s WvWvW crowd here afterall…

there no skill that can help you in a scenario like the one on the video thiefs can keep stealthing with heartseeker simply by disabling auto target

Your only real guide here telling you the thief’s direction was when they stealthed besides you AKA the random blinds you got are form a trait that blinds nearby foes wich means he used a stealth as he ran past you when you got blinded you should ve turned back instead of going forward.

of course theres the 70% chance of being wrong

Ralathar.7236:

Rastaman.9015:

Sorry to disappoint you, but thief was made specifically to not get caught. A thief is supposed to take out key targets to win the fight and to do that he can’t get caught. And to balance this if he does get caught his low defenses will show.

So if you are built to not get caught then you getting caught was your own misplaying. therefore you are saying thieves are not intended to get caught and ergo not intended to die?

Because honestly if you don’t get caught your low defenses will never show.

Exactly. Now that is where the hard part of being a thief comes into play. You have to know what not to get caught by from every profession. You have to know every skill in the game and how to counter it. Players that achieve this are the “skilled” players in game.

randomfightfan.4091:

Ralathar.7236:

randomfightfan.4091:

Not to mention you could have just dropped a smart stealth trap. They’re not expensive and you had 4 people. If a thief trips one of those, it’s insta tears as it usually means they have to hide very far away for the next 30s, or die.

What class do thief have to drop 15 badges and some karma to defeat and how does that make good class balance if you have to buy outside help from your class to counter somenoe?

We use it against thieves. Imagine that, thieves actually fighting thieves. We don’t actually need to use the traps though, they just making beating a thief stupidly easy. Thing is, most of the time, we don’t complain about a class being op, instead we actually learn to play against said class. Some builds you usually won’t beat and others you will almost always beat. We might do a feeler attack and if the enemy is rocking a build that is very good against thieves, I will just not commit to fighting them. Try learning to play against thieves before complain that they’re op b/c you can’t play against thieves. Thieves are actively trying to learn to play against you. Every minute you spend qqing here is a minute where those thieves are siphoning even more tears to fuel their steal.

Pro tip. When playing against a thief, I like to let them open (and avoid the damage best I can) then counter. They stuff will be down and they’ll be very vulnerable. If they don’t go down, then they’ve probably ran away. In that case, my work is done, I have won, I move on. Sorry I don’t qq about every lost loot ba\

Edit. After writting this I realized I was also replying to a few of the massive qqers in this thread but intertwined my response with them into my response to you Ral. Sorry if I offended you when it seems like you were trying to ask a legit question.

It’s all good. I’ve played all classes to a good degree and I find it much harder to counter a decent thief than any other class. A well played mesmer is actually worse, but only in low number situations, a well played thief is definitely worse in high number situations.

Basically the best you can do vs a good thief is drive him away for a short time and keep him from killing people, but it’s very difficult, if even possible, for the vast majority of builds to kill a well played thief. Many times even working in tandem with allies it remains very difficult or impossible. Even with the right builds if the thief is running the right utilities and isn’t sheer glass you won’t kill him if he is good.

This is what brings so much hate down on the thief community. People hate being ganked from stealth and dislike stealth in general. But when a good player can actually evade death to incredible levels while heavily outnumbered it signifies a problem to me.

In another thread I created I mentioned thieves had a get out of jail free button. This is essentially what keeps the traditional CC from being the answer. Because they have the answer to all forms of CC as well as conditions in the form of a combination of shadow step and hide in shadows.

So long as this remains the case, the thief class will draw hate, and rightfully so.

Jacklo.4230:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Did you know that thief can easily chain 12 seconds of stealth from just 1 black powder? (4 x hs)

To start he’d be lucky to get 4 hs on a black powder. I can only manage 3 at the best of times but whatever.

It’s easy to chain it 4 times. You need to span view quickly with mouse just before the leap starts. That bugs it so that you don’t move out of the blind field. Takes little practice but really easy once you get it.

Rastaman.9015:

Ralathar.7236:

Rastaman.9015:

Sorry to disappoint you, but thief was made specifically to not get caught. A thief is supposed to take out key targets to win the fight and to do that he can’t get caught. And to balance this if he does get caught his low defenses will show.

So if you are built to not get caught then you getting caught was your own misplaying. therefore you are saying thieves are not intended to get caught and ergo not intended to die?

Because honestly if you don’t get caught your low defenses will never show.

Exactly. Now that is where the hard part of being a thief comes into play. You have to know what not to get caught by from every profession. You have to know every skill in the game and how to counter it. Players that achieve this are the “skilled” players in game.

Having played thief I can tell you it’s really not all that diffcult. Only reason I die around as much on my thieves is I know it’s easier to survive so I do bolder stuff to get more out of my class. This is the case with most thieves as they rush into situations most classes would never put themselves in.

Having played MMO’s for a long time I can also tell you balanced isn’t based on what you can do easily or do with skill. It’s based off of what the class is capable of. If a class could wreck an entire zerg on a build but it was insanely hard to pull of that would still get nerfed for example. Extreme impractical/hyperbole example, but you get the point.

It really just annoys people and that’s why they complain so much.

is the OP a noob, or have they just not seen a d/d elementalist, GS ranger, or mesmer before?

thief is FAR from the most mobile thing in the game, and have nowhere near the survival or ability to shrug off damage like the three above. if you were too incompetent in catching one, it’s your own fault, not the game’s balance; considering there are far more broken builds out there

Every skill should have a counter-skill. Every mechanism should have a counter-mechanism. Of course these should not be available to all professions (that would be just boring) but there should be professions with counter skills.

eg. Profession A has a skill/mechanism that can be countered by Profession B. Profession C has a skill/mechanism that can counter profession B, but can be countered by Profession A ……. and so on ……. (you get the picture!?)

This makes all professions wanted as they are needed to counter other professions.
And no one should feel safe! :-) ===> more fun

imo, give ranger’s pet a sense to track/see/reveal stealthed players and / or googles to engnineers that can do the very same.

I’m sure all of you sneaky-backstabbers / tail-between-your-legs-running-away-folks disagree, but a decent game should have skills AND counter-skills.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Also, a thief running that type of build can have 18-20k HP, around 2.5k armor, regenerate health and lose conditions in stealth, be able to dodge 3-4 times in a row, has ranged and melee blinds up all the time, 2-4 teleport skills/stunbreakers. ANNNNND can be built to have over 100% crit damage without food and have every attack from stealth crit automatically, so that glass cannon rife warrior will die, fast, like really really fast, sorry homey.

Where is this build? I want to see it, so I can play it.

We need to go 30 deep for Hidden Killer, and 30 deep for heal in stealth, and 15 deep for getting even close to permanent-dodge.

We have two ranged blinds, and neither are spammable.

We have a total of three true teleports, two of which break stun. And if we bring that set, then we can’t bring the ranged blind I mentioned before.

As for the stats, that’s entirely ridiculous, unless we run full Cavalier’s… in which case, we can nail maybe a single 4-5k backstab and that’s about it, we’re out of commission for the next 6 or so seconds. And if we’re running that build, then we can’t bring one of our teleports.

testpig.5018:

solutions:
-if damage is taken while in stealth.. the damage numbers should appear the the player delivering the attack.
-If hit by a critical attack while stealth, you should be revealed
-All traps triggered by a stealth player should cause the player to be revealed
-Any attack from stealth if blocked should reveal the player
-If targeting a player that enters stealth, and not acquiring a new target before the stealth player reappears, should automatically re-target
-The first attack from dropping from stealth OR from being stealth should have the same bonuses as the attack from stealth.

- damage does not show up while the thief is in stealth, so you have no guarantee that you hit him
- Critical attacks don’t reveal a thief
- blocking an attack does not reveal him

SharadSun.3089:

Thrashbarg.9820:

Also, a thief running that type of build can have 18-20k HP, around 2.5k armor, regenerate health and lose conditions in stealth, be able to dodge 3-4 times in a row, has ranged and melee blinds up all the time, 2-4 teleport skills/stunbreakers. ANNNNND can be built to have over 100% crit damage without food and have every attack from stealth crit automatically, so that glass cannon rife warrior will die, fast, like really really fast, sorry homey.

Where is this build? I want to see it, so I can play it.

We need to go 30 deep for Hidden Killer, and 30 deep for heal in stealth, and 15 deep for getting even close to permanent-dodge.

We have two ranged blinds, and neither are spammable.

We have a total of three true teleports, two of which break stun. And if we bring that set, then we can’t bring the ranged blind I mentioned before.

As for the stats, that’s entirely ridiculous, unless we run full Cavalier’s… in which case, we can nail maybe a single 4-5k backstab and that’s about it, we’re out of commission for the next 6 or so seconds. And if we’re running that build, then we can’t bring one of our teleports.

Sorry but Thash is right and you’re wrong. I have a thief so I’d know. Why would anyone ever activate signet of shadows for 25% move speed when I can perma blind my target?! Can’t believe how many dumb players there are out there. It’s stupid that I can go ptv and still land 15k backstabs consistently! Anyone who’s arguing that stealth isn’t broken is just stupid. They need to go back to school to learn some lessons. You know what’s hilarous though? Stealth isn’t even the worst part! It’s all the teleports. When a thief can whip out a short bow and escape from any encounter, it’s just stupid. I can be beating a thief, have them at 5% hp, then they go 5-5-5-5-5-5-5 and there’s nothing I can do to stop them from escaping. What a joke. I run 30-30-30-30-30 and it’s just too easy to win so I don’t play it that often. Thief, nerf it NOW!

@Kontrolle Balance is a pipe dream and your friends are irrational

I wish players would come here to ask questions rather than make blind accusations in a fit of rage. Here’s an example for you:

TYPICAL POST
Omg I couldn’t kill a Thief and/or a Thief killed me. They’re so overpowered pls nerf.

NEEDED POSTS
Guys, I just got wrecked by a Thief and I’m not sure what to do next time it happens. Advice?

Try it out and you may find that we can all “solve” this ridiculous issue of balance.

so even though you kill 99% of thiefs, they’re OP?

looks like the balance is pretty good.

Thief is not OP In WvW. Most guilds want guardian, mesmer, warrior, elementalist only. Thief is low tier.

Excalibur.9748:

Thief is not OP In WvW. Most guilds want guardian, mesmer, warrior, elementalist only. Thief is low tier.

That’s because Thief does it’s best work away from the zerg and while they CAN contribute meaningfully to the zerg those 4 classes are pretty much built for it.

Thieves can make a crazy difference on a WvW map, but they do it in a different way is all.

azerte.4365:

testpig.5018:

solutions:
-if damage is taken while in stealth.. the damage numbers should appear the the player delivering the attack.
-If hit by a critical attack while stealth, you should be revealed
-All traps triggered by a stealth player should cause the player to be revealed
-Any attack from stealth if blocked should reveal the player
-If targeting a player that enters stealth, and not acquiring a new target before the stealth player reappears, should automatically re-target
-The first attack from dropping from stealth OR from being stealth should have the same bonuses as the attack from stealth.

- damage does not show up while the thief is in stealth, so you have no guarantee that you hit him
- Critical attacks don’t reveal a thief
- blocking an attack does not reveal him

You are amazingly wrong. IF your using autoattack your chain will advance when you hit a thief in addition the combat number DO show up in your combat log, you just have to pay attention. its quite simple.

Stealth breaks when a thief deals damage, if the attack is blocked, he didnt deal damage so why would he be revealed?

Even if we used trap they’d run with SB 5. You know it, so why ignore the fact when saying no stealth = dead thief?
And why thief don’t need trap to counter my pet?

Yes, we wasted time in this video. But I have new example: just before few minutes a permastealth thief hit 3 of our AC operators when we defended tower (wall was down). It’s early hours, so the fight was like 15v15. Now, this kitten thief could do enough dmg to kill, so couldn’t be ignored, and I belive I don’t have to explain what it means for rest of our team if we suddenly stop using ACs to catch some thief? Ofc ACs couldn’t be used coz it was too close and when we tried to keep using 2 and 1 guy keep thief busy, thief just downed him (no surprise). We couldn’t call our “zerg” to help because then enemies would follow them and no use for AC anyway. Stealth traps weren’t option because all supplies went to build siege (who keeps supplies for himself during last stand in tower?).

And who cares how thief works in ZvZ? I’m ranger and in organized zergs (the ones who charge, flank etc, not stand in place and shoot on 1200 range) I’m useless because I have nearly no grp utility and my pet doesn’t work there. Can I have stealth, and not only normal one, but perma, plox?

Terkov.4138:

Even if we used trap they’d run with SB 5. You know it, so why ignore the fact when saying no stealth = dead thief?
And why thief don’t need trap to counter my pet?

Yes, we wasted time in this video. But I have new example: just before few minutes a permastealth thief hit 3 of our AC operators when we defended tower (wall was down). It’s early hours, so the fight was like 15v15. Now, this kitten thief could do enough dmg to kill, so couldn’t be ignored, and I belive I don’t have to explain what it means for rest of our team if we suddenly stop using ACs to catch some thief? Ofc ACs couldn’t be used coz it was too close and when we tried to keep using 2 and 1 guy keep thief busy, thief just downed him (no surprise). We couldn’t call our “zerg” to help because then enemies would follow them and no use for AC anyway. Stealth traps weren’t option because all supplies went to build siege (who keeps supplies for himself during last stand in tower?).

And who cares how thief works in ZvZ? I’m ranger and in organized zergs (the ones who charge, flank etc, not stand in place and shoot on 1200 range) I’m useless because I have nearly no grp utility and my pet doesn’t work there. Can I have stealth, and not only normal one, but perma, plox?

Okay so you were zerg v zeging and a thief was (space for auto swear filter) hitting your back line. Sounds like what thieves do. Where were your thieves doing at this time? You have just as much access to thieves as the enemy. Sounds to me the problem here isn’t that a thief was able to down a soft target in the back, the problem is that your wall was down. If the wall wasn’t down, thief couldn’t get in ;P

" Still, it’s class that allows such things, and no other class gives so big advantage in any other “discipline”. Some are better at some things, but it’s just too much".

Anyone with Common Sense clearly see this as Favoritism.

Favoritism gives the Stealth Thief a sense of Entitlement to do what ever they please, without having any consequence or prevention to their actions whatsoever.

Thus,

Boosting their ego’s in enjoying the suffering and torture of other players.

Also,

They derive pleasure from treating and disciplining players harshly under their control (stealth).

Resulting,

Restricting players from ever escaping their control.

Burnfall.9573:

" Still, it’s class that allows such things, and no other class gives so big advantage in any other “discipline”. Some are better at some things, but it’s just too much".

Anyone with Common Sense clearly see this as Favoritism.

Favoritism gives the Stealth Thief a sense of Entitlement to do what ever they please, without having any consequence or prevention to their actions whatsoever.

Thus,

Boosting their ego’s in enjoying the suffering and torture of other players.

Also,

They derive pleasure from treating and disciplining players harshly under their control (stealth).

Resulting,

Restricting players from ever escaping their control.

Just once I would like to see you post something that makes sense.

Steath have been nerfed enough by bad players… As I suggested for wow-players when playing wow.. Reroll og adapt.. Yah it sux but that’s life
I see lot of ppl having probs with stealth and a lot not having.. Some ppl go against several ppl at once and some struggles with just 1v1.

It is sadly a L2P issue.. Not just your class but learn the other classes as well (professions w/e).

I find it sad that these forum just turned into a cry-forum.. I am a terrible player, and got close to no skills.. I change between thief, guardian, engineer and elementalist and just enjoy the game, and actually take down a few players

It is after all just a game… If some1 harazed you like that on your job, see that would be another thing, and I would ofc fire the kitten:b

I played WoW and had no problems against stealth classes, even tho stealth there was “perma”. Reason? If I hit enemy with AoE he got unstealthed. Here even if I hit, I don’t do enough dmg to kill and I don’t know if it wakitten or miss, so I can spam him enough.

Yeah, it’s just a game. That’s why I “cry” here. I play for fun, and permastealth destroys my fun, coz I meet them everywhere.
Just to make it clear: I don’t mind thieves. They are very hard to beat 1v1 and they can run anytime if they are good. It’s ok. THIS TOPIC IS ONLY ABOUT PERMASTEALTH.
I’d like to remind, that ANet stated they don’t make thieves a class like WoWs rogue that can sit in stealth whole day, because “it’s not fun”. Players learned to abuse game mechanics to actually sit invisible as long as they want. What I’m asking for is not nerf – I want devs to fix a build that gives player options that he wasn’t supposed to have.

@edit
It seems filter “kittens” was + hit coz it sounds like “poo” with space -.-

Terkov, you are misinformed. If you hit a thief in stealth there are MULTIPLE ways to know you hit him, AA chains will continue, crit procs can go off, heal on hit procs can go off, life leeches can go off, and lets not forget the most obvious… The combat log will SHOW you the damage. knowledge is power. l2p.

Shemsu.8721:

Terkov, you are misinformed. If you hit a thief in stealth there are MULTIPLE ways to know you hit him, AA chains will continue, crit procs can go off, heal on hit procs can go off, life leeches can go off, and lets not forget the most obvious… The combat log will SHOW you the damage. knowledge is power. l2p.

I’ve checked it a few times but combat log has never shown damage when you hit people in stealth.

Shemsu.8721:

azerte.4365:

testpig.5018:

solutions:
-if damage is taken while in stealth.. the damage numbers should appear the the player delivering the attack.
-If hit by a critical attack while stealth, you should be revealed
-All traps triggered by a stealth player should cause the player to be revealed
-Any attack from stealth if blocked should reveal the player
-If targeting a player that enters stealth, and not acquiring a new target before the stealth player reappears, should automatically re-target
-The first attack from dropping from stealth OR from being stealth should have the same bonuses as the attack from stealth.

- damage does not show up while the thief is in stealth, so you have no guarantee that you hit him
- Critical attacks don’t reveal a thief
- blocking an attack does not reveal him

You are amazingly wrong. IF your using autoattack your chain will advance when you hit a thief in addition the combat number DO show up in your combat log, you just have to pay attention. its quite simple.

Stealth breaks when a thief deals damage, if the attack is blocked, he didnt deal damage so why would he be revealed?

yes but you don’t see it on the screen and not everyone is so smart to look at the combat log and I meant that when a thief gets critically hit he doesn’t get revealed. If he deals damage then it’s obvious he gets revealed.
And yes IF you do an auto-attack which you don’t always do.

let me add my two cents in. THIEVES CAN HEAL FOR 500 HEALTH PER SECOND VERY SECOND THEY ARE IN STEALTH. More healing than an average ele. And they can do this utilizing only two traits.

The Game Slayer.7632:

let me add my two cents in. THIEVES CAN HEAL FOR 500 HEALTH PER SECOND VERY SECOND THEY ARE IN STEALTH. More healing than an average ele. And they can do this utilizing only two traits.

And?

Guardians can heal more than 300 points every sec, without any requirements, and this also on 4 persons if they will.
And btw, thiefs have no skills to block or negate every dmg.

Black Teagan.9215:

The Game Slayer.7632:

let me add my two cents in. THIEVES CAN HEAL FOR 500 HEALTH PER SECOND VERY SECOND THEY ARE IN STEALTH. More healing than an average ele. And they can do this utilizing only two traits.

And?

Guardians can heal more than 300 points every sec, without any requirements, and this also on 4 persons if they will.
And btw, thiefs have no skills to block or negate every dmg.

Uhm blind fields and evasions come to mind…lots and lots of them both lol

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Black Teagan.9215:

The Game Slayer.7632:

let me add my two cents in. THIEVES CAN HEAL FOR 500 HEALTH PER SECOND VERY SECOND THEY ARE IN STEALTH. More healing than an average ele. And they can do this utilizing only two traits.

And?

Guardians can heal more than 300 points every sec, without any requirements, and this also on 4 persons if they will.
And btw, thiefs have no skills to block or negate every dmg.

Uhm blind fields and evasions come to mind…lots and lots of them both lol

Blindfield work only against melee dmg and this only one time per sec. And Evasions is not thief only and most of time needless as long as you are in stealth.

TheOneNOnlyGeneralBama.9586:

Black Teagan.9215:

The Game Slayer.7632:

let me add my two cents in. THIEVES CAN HEAL FOR 500 HEALTH PER SECOND VERY SECOND THEY ARE IN STEALTH. More healing than an average ele. And they can do this utilizing only two traits.

And?

Guardians can heal more than 300 points every sec, without any requirements, and this also on 4 persons if they will.
And btw, thiefs have no skills to block or negate every dmg.

Uhm blind fields and evasions come to mind…lots and lots of them both lol

They have one projectile block, blind fields are small and short lived, one reflect which is an elite, and stealth set evades last less then a second. They can’t even begin the compare to AoE heals, Blocks, aoe cleanses, and other defense Eles and Guardian can dish out. It’s like comparing a squirt gun to a fire hose.

That video, i didnt see the thief once …. its not possible to perma stealth. I know many combinations where you can reapply stealth but not continously like this. He is forever stealth or am i missing something here ?

instead of “fixing” the portal of the mesmer,
you are nerfing the thief again?

IQ -1 ???
and the 2nd slap goes to you also:
1 thief uses black powder (*/p users)
2nd uses shortbow – cluster bomb

make the lol lord vet mobs and turn them to champions

problem solved

Black Teagan.9215:

The Game Slayer.7632:

let me add my two cents in. THIEVES CAN HEAL FOR 500 HEALTH PER SECOND VERY SECOND THEY ARE IN STEALTH. More healing than an average ele. And they can do this utilizing only two traits.

And?

Guardians can heal more than 300 points every sec, without any requirements, and this also on 4 persons if they will.
And btw, thiefs have no skills to block or negate every dmg.

Flanking Strike says Hai! Death Blossom says Hi! Short Bow #3 says heeyy! Pistol Whip says me too!
Roll for initative, Withdraw and Feline Grace weren’t invited to the party for some reason.

ps. Invulnerability, aka evade, is generally better than reflection or block.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Black Teagan.9215:

The Game Slayer.7632:

let me add my two cents in. THIEVES CAN HEAL FOR 500 HEALTH PER SECOND VERY SECOND THEY ARE IN STEALTH. More healing than an average ele. And they can do this utilizing only two traits.

And?

Guardians can heal more than 300 points every sec, without any requirements, and this also on 4 persons if they will.
And btw, thiefs have no skills to block or negate every dmg.

Flanking Strike says Hai! Death Blossom says Hi! Short Bow #3 says heeyy! Pistol Whip says me too!
Roll for initative, Withdraw and Feline Grace weren’t invited to the party for some reason.

ps. Invulnerability, aka evade, is generally better than reflection or block.

You just listed 4 weapon sets. Also db and pw shouldn’t have even been put up there… If you’re using pw for the evade, you’re going to find yourself dead before the evade even starts. Db has a .25s evade time on a skill that takes about 1s to cast and it costs stupid amounts of ini. Both will get you killed more often then they’ll help. The other 2 are solid though, no arguments here. I just wish withdraw didn’t have the annoying cast delay. It should be as responsive as regular dodging. Only problem is that if you’re using those weaponsets, your damage will be junk compared not just to d/x thief, but to most other weaponsets of other classes. It’s a trade-off so don’t be surprised if you’re not killing many people with that combo.

If you’re fighting against projectiles, reflection is infinitely superior to evades. Active blocks are infinitely better than evades as well as they have longer block (evade) times and deal heavy counter-attack damage (see mesmer scepter/sword, warrior mace, etc.) Warrior/engi shield is an exception but they are still very powerful abilities, blocking all attacks 3 or 4 seconds. There is also the added benefit of things like aiges where they passively protect you from surprise attacks and are extremely easy to reapply with mesmers or guards. Not to mention there are abilities that go through evade. The most obvious ones are floats and sinks.

The video doesn’t really prove anything…nobody is actually doing anything. Only one toon is actually aoe-ing, the rest are just standing around and it’s a 4 v 2, which could go worse vs skilled players in any other 2 classes…so it doesn’t really prove that thieves are opd. For example, vs a good mesmer and ele, you guys might just have died instead of running around aimlessly.

I just started playing a thief venom-share build in wvw. My goal is to be group-friendly, and ok at 1v1s. I’ve noticed a few things –
1) I can’t get away nearly as well as my standard stealth build, since all my utilities are venoms, so I have to be choosier with my fights.
2) I am very good at killing permastealth thieves (especially when in a group).

The trick is all the cc, spamming all my venoms means my (and nearby allies) attacks temporarily cause chill/immobilize/poison/weakness/stone. I just have to hit a thief once, then when they cloakittenep spamming aoe on their location, since I know they probably haven’t moved. Then I wait for the body to appear. I’m still new to the build, so I’m sure there are better ways to run it too…And I’m not the only one either.

Necros, and other classes with lots of cc have similar tricks that really do work well, usually forcing thieves to retreat or die. In the case of your video, if they were trying to stay in the keep, the retreat would eventually mean leaving, which is a victory, whether or not they die…the mission gets accomplished.