Guild Wars 2

I’ve been running into a few of these guys in ranked play and I’m confused. Why are they running this with no SB?

Anyone wanna help me out because I just want to slap them. Thank goodness I haven’t had one on my team….

Any insight would be awesome.

Probably because they don’t like SB? I’ve done this set before and it can work when you’re conscious of when you swap and, most important, do -not- spam vault. Staff is great for finalizing with great burst damage and evade frames, but too many thieves flip around wasting ini too much. Also staff is much better for when another thief drops a SR, then,and only then, do I ever spam vault, and then swing around AA’ing for the downed body.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Probably because they don’t like SB? I’ve done this set before and it can work when you’re conscious of when you swap and, most important, do -not- spam vault. Staff is great for finalizing with great burst damage and evade frames, but too many thieves flip around wasting ini too much. Also staff is much better for when another thief drops a SR, then,and only then, do I ever spam vault, and then swing around AA’ing for the downed body.

Talking about PvP

I don’t care what the run with in WvW. It can be no weapons for all I care.

I started using this in ranked since HoT came out, and I’ve seen more and more of ‘em. It’s more for if you play like a bruiser/teamfighter, and are a good 1v1er inherently. It basically boosts your fighting skills, and you’re less of a decapper, more of a killer. At least, that’s why I run it- it boosts my inherent skills as a thief.

So if your playstyle fits running staff over shortbow, try it out. If you’re more of a conventional thief playstyle, run shortbow.

Don’t slap them. At least if they’re good at it. I’ve actually had the most success running D/P Staff. I have some clips of it if you want to see it in action.

alchemyst.2165:

I started using this in ranked since HoT came out, and I’ve seen more and more of ‘em. It’s more for if you play like a bruiser/teamfighter, and are a good 1v1er inherently. It basically boosts your fighting skills, and you’re less of a decapper, more of a killer. At least, that’s why I run it- it boosts my inherent skills as a thief.

So if your playstyle fits running staff over shortbow, try it out. If you’re more of a conventional thief playstyle, run shortbow.

Don’t slap them. At least if they’re good at it. I’ve actually had the most success running D/P Staff. I have some clips of it if you want to see it in action.

You’d be better off running scrapper, rev, druid, or even a gunflame warrior.

Listen I don’t mind having thieves on my team because soloq is generally about the players skill but running that build is very selfish. When you run into another team who’s adequate at the game you’re just hurting your team.

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

They’re “ok” in team fights, but like you said totally replaceable by something else that is better in a fight. Nothing can replace the insane vertical mobility that SB offers.

ITT: Thieves still salty that we’re subpar in teamfights and want to fill a role that they are not best at.

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

I’m sorry but the #1 reason you would want a thief on your team is mobility. This is due to the fact there isn’t a more mobile class in the game for PvP. By not taking short bow that thief is legitimately making the match 4v5 from the onset.

I also had the pleasure of playing against those thieves when I actually had a properly built thief on my team. Needless to say we won handily and our thief actually made it easier as a team. In fact the other team was commenting how they wished they had a real thief on their team in one of the games.

Depends.

Dash pretty much suit all movement needs for a DD. If they are using it they can still play the role, albeit a little slower than SB.

Now Bound + Staff is somewhat selfish. Low access to swiftness make thief as slow as a necromancer

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

tbh, i do not play pvp as much as i should becuase it is the best way to get better, and i am a skirmisher in wvw and not a focus point decapper (i know it is more then just decap, mind games and tactical move’s are made but that isnt my style). But playing duel melee thief is ok for lolz or unranked. but i do not advise it in ranked where stuff matters. thief is only good at 1v1 when it comes to fighting, and most of the time if it is not another squishy person it take’s too long for the kill to matter anyway, so you may as well just be else where. 2nd the 2v1 bit comes into play and with short bow you get to point B much quicker.

i have met some of there’s d/p staff heros in wvw and although they can insta kill by bursting their utilaty’s too, i still think it is too much to give up then shortbow and self survival utiltys. just my opinion.

as for acrobatics, i dunno why people even use it, its like the new SA “training wheels” with that passive evade and anti stun, much better going either CS or DA since the whole point of thief is burst and or mobilty.

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Vault gives you the same distance in mobility for less initiative, but the animation is a hell of a lot more clunky.

Given that, it’s hard to take SB for your utility weapon over P/P or D/P.

D/P gives you constant access to stealth which you don’t have with staff. You can also combo the smoke field with Vault or Bound. You also get two cheap gap closers and a ranged hard CC; staff doesn’t have any hard CC unless you are in stealth.

P/P isn’t as useful for PvP, but in PvE, it gives you strong ranged single target burst which you are badly lacking with a staff build.

I keep a shortbow in my bag for the blast finisher, but with staff, I just don’t see much value in pairing it with SB.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

as for acrobatics, i dunno why people even use it, its like the new SA “training wheels” with that passive evade and anti stun, much better going either CS or DA since the whole point of thief is burst and or mobilty.

Because it’s pretty awesome and synergies a lot better with DD than DA synergies with staff.

You get value from DA in terms of Executioner and Exposed Weakness for more damage, but the other traits are awkward. Revealed Power, for example, doesn’t do much for you in staff, because you can’t enter stealth consistently like you can with D/P or D/D.

However, the synergy between DD and Acro is really strong. Instant Reflexes, Feline Grace, Upper Hand, Escapist’s Absolution and Driven Fortitude all synerize really well. This leaves you free to take CS for pure offensive ability. Expeditous Dodger is nice, too, because it increases your swiftness uptime to 14 secs per dodge with Unhindered Combatant. Your endurance generation is also very high due to vigor from Acro in addition to endurance on steal, endurance on initative if you want to lose the condi removal for Staff Master and endurance on physical skill usage if you take Brawler’s Tenacity.

Calling it training wheels is a bit of a harsh judgement, since you have to successfully evade attacks to cure condis, get vigor and regen, restore initative and heal.

why?
cuz staff.

MadRabbit.3179:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

as for acrobatics, i dunno why people even use it, its like the new SA “training wheels” with that passive evade and anti stun, much better going either CS or DA since the whole point of thief is burst and or mobilty.

Because it’s pretty awesome and synergies a lot better with DD than DA synergies with staff.

You get value from DA in terms of Executioner and Exposed Weakness for more damage, but the other traits are awkward. Revealed Power, for example, doesn’t do much for you in staff, because you can’t enter stealth consistently like you can with D/P or D/D.

However, the synergy between DD and Acro is really strong. Instant Reflexes, Feline Grace, Upper Hand, Escapist’s Absolution and Driven Fortitude all synerize really well. This leaves you free to take CS for pure offensive ability. Expeditous Dodger is nice, too, because it increases your swiftness uptime to 14 secs per dodge with Unhindered Combatant. Your endurance generation is also very high due to vigor from Acro in addition to endurance on steal, endurance on initative if you want to lose the condi removal for Staff Master and endurance on physical skill usage if you take Brawler’s Tenacity.

Calling it training wheels is a bit of a harsh judgement, since you have to successfully evade attacks to cure condis, get vigor and regen, restore initative and heal.

Wait you’re not taking trickery!?

WTF

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

I use Escapist’s Absolution?

Master trait in Daredevil, clear 1 condi on evade (1 second ICD)

Staff can replace sb on some maps (e.g. forest) but you definitely sacrifice ranged capability for it. It is a taste thing really.

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

Escapist’s Absolution. Trickery only works if you run a lot of tricks and Shadow Art’s interval is limiting. I think Escapist’s Absolution has the highest potential out of all of them to remove the most condis, because of it’s 1 second ICD. It can trigger twice during the evasion proc and Acro + DD gives you an abundance of energy to use for dodges. It also triggers off the evades built into Vault.

But it’s still a trade off, because you can’t manually trigger it like the other options. You have to successfully evade.

And you still have Shadowstep as a manual condi clear option.

I absolutely love Acrobatics, but I don’t play much pvp, so its difficult for me to make a solid case for it. But, at minimum, I think people underrate it’s value more than it should be.

MadRabbit.3179:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

Escapist’s Absolution. Trickery only works if you run a lot of tricks and Shadow Art’s interval is limiting. I think Escapist’s Absolution has the highest potential out of all of them to remove the most condis, because of it’s 1 second ICD. It can trigger twice during the evasion proc and Acro + DD gives you an abundance of energy to use for dodges. It also triggers off the evades built into Vault.

But it’s still a trade off, because you can’t manually trigger it like the other options. You have to successfully evade.

And you still have Shadowstep as a manual condi clear option.

I absolutely love Acrobatics, but I don’t play much pvp, so its difficult for me to make a solid case for it. But, at minimum, I think people underrate it’s value more than it should be.

This is about PvP. I really don’t care what thieves run in WvW. I made this about thieves running it in PvP.

I appreciate your input though and i’ll keep it in the back of my mind.

Thanks

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

I use Escapist’s Absolution?

Master trait in Daredevil, clear 1 condi on evade (1 second ICD)

I agree its a nice condi clear, but any smart player already knows to not attack a thief when overloaded with condis. You just let em tick to death.

Look to me you’re trying to do something on a thief that is honestly a waste of everyone’s time involved. Your not controlling the map, your not able to reliably +1, and in a team fight if they focus you you die too fast. Im not sitting here saying you are a bad player…I’m just saying your decision isn’t a good one.

Either it’s your $60 to play how you want; I just think you need to realize the other players on your team paid $60 as well.

Why are you wasting everyone’s time and energy coming into the thief forum getting passive aggressive about a thief deciding to play DP with staff? Either take this to the spvp forums or queue with a full group.

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

I use Escapist’s Absolution?

Master trait in Daredevil, clear 1 condi on evade (1 second ICD)

I agree its a nice condi clear, but any smart player already knows to not attack a thief when overloaded with condis. You just let em tick to death.

Look to me you’re trying to do something on a thief that is honestly a waste of everyone’s time involved. Your not controlling the map, your not able to reliably +1, and in a team fight if they focus you you die too fast. Im not sitting here saying you are a bad player…I’m just saying your decision isn’t a good one.

Either it’s your $60 to play how you want; I just think you need to realize the other players on your team paid $60 as well.

To me it just seems like you haven’t had a lot of good thieves on your map and aren’t very educated on thief, and I do not mean that offensively.

I do get what you’re saying though. At first glance staff over shortbow seems like a crazy idea; but when I first put it on I started winning a lot more fights and a lot more games. Just because my playstyle complemented it. I’m making a montage of D/P staff and I have some PvP clips. It is an very powerful tool for thieves in the right hands.

Yes, using a different class(or shortbow) is easier. Is it more fun? Not for a lot of thieves. Can thief be done? Absolutely.

And about the condi clear part, that’s why I don’t get hit in the first place, or use generosity sigil/shadowstep if I really need the burst clear. Plus, I usually run signet of agility.

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

I use Escapist’s Absolution?

Master trait in Daredevil, clear 1 condi on evade (1 second ICD)

I agree its a nice condi clear, but any smart player already knows to not attack a thief when overloaded with condis. You just let em tick to death.

Look to me you’re trying to do something on a thief that is honestly a waste of everyone’s time involved. Your not controlling the map, your not able to reliably +1, and in a team fight if they focus you you die too fast. Im not sitting here saying you are a bad player…I’m just saying your decision isn’t a good one.

Either it’s your $60 to play how you want; I just think you need to realize the other players on your team paid $60 as well.

To me it just seems like you haven’t had a lot of good thieves on your map and aren’t very educated on thief, and I do not mean that offensively.

I do get what you’re saying though. At first glance staff over shortbow seems like a crazy idea; but when I first put it on I started winning a lot more fights and a lot more games. Just because my playstyle complemented it. I’m making a montage of D/P staff and I have some PvP clips. It is an very powerful tool for thieves in the right hands.

Yes, using a different class(or shortbow) is easier. Is it more fun? Not for a lot of thieves. Can thief be done? Absolutely.

And about the condi clear part, that’s why I don’t get hit in the first place, or use generosity sigil/shadowstep if I really need the burst clear. Plus, I usually run signet of agility.

I’ve played with lots of great thieves. This is,what I base my stance on. Just the other day on forest a thief literally won the game. He/She were so darn good I was flabbergasted at what they accomplished. Every single time a point was left open it was decapped. It was a dream because my team had a REALLY bad comp and couldn’t win team fights at all. We got wrecked. That thief though made them thin out so all team fights we had a number advantage. That one was your standard DP.

Now I have played with great staff thieves too who like the above thief were able to control the map. I’ve played with the condi thieves who did the same as well.

It doesn’t matter what weapon you use as long as you keep the mobility to control the map. DP Staff gives that up.

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

Azukas.1426:

alchemyst.2165:

CutesySylveon.8290:

Thief is a selfish class, so saying they’re selfish running staff over SB isn’t saying much. And not everyone wants to decap all match and wants something with more offensive potential, so they may choose staff. If they’re not on the ground and are contributing, then who are you to say that they would do better with SB or not? They may be able to get a crucial down because they had the better damage from staff, etc. If if works, it works, and I would rather not force SB any more than some people would d/p.

^ this.

Even without SB a thief still has a few unique assets (however few they may be) that a very good thief can exploit, such as steal and mobility. Vault still allows for decent mobility. D/P allows for single target pressure and chase, picking off easy targets or stragglers. The way it plays can allow for a valuable asset, granted the thief is good enough. Then you have impact strike, which combo’d with acro and staff can actually make you a formidable teamfighter (cant count how many times my team has won mid by me having acro proc and using impact strike, whether that be just on the single downed or interrupting two rezzers then stomping the downed).

I’m confused did you mean you are playing with Acrobatics? And if so what proc in Acrobatics turns the tide in a XvX fight at mid? I’m not a thief so I’m very confused if you are meaning something else because the only thing I can think of is Instant Reflexes.

Thanks

Yes, Instant Reflexes. Getting the evade stomp can really sway a team fight.

As for a thief being auto 4v5, I would say that’s a bit harsh. Maybe a bad thief. The difference with thief to other classes is that a bad player on another class, like rev, can still carry teamfights. Thief has to be really good to get results, but when you do very well on thief, it’s really outstanding to see.

Thief isn’t in the best spot right now, but it’s doable. You just have to get good thieves on your team, but sadly most aren’t. If you can, find a thief in a good pvp guild. The rest of the decent thieves are all dueling heroes and don’t usually queue, so that’s why it’s hard to find good thieves in Q’s.

Uhh so what do you use for condi clear……b/c 2 secs of evasion every 40 secs isn’t that great

I use Escapist’s Absolution?

Master trait in Daredevil, clear 1 condi on evade (1 second ICD)

I agree its a nice condi clear, but any smart player already knows to not attack a thief when overloaded with condis. You just let em tick to death.

Look to me you’re trying to do something on a thief that is honestly a waste of everyone’s time involved. Your not controlling the map, your not able to reliably +1, and in a team fight if they focus you you die too fast. Im not sitting here saying you are a bad player…I’m just saying your decision isn’t a good one.

Either it’s your $60 to play how you want; I just think you need to realize the other players on your team paid $60 as well.

To me it just seems like you haven’t had a lot of good thieves on your map and aren’t very educated on thief, and I do not mean that offensively.

I do get what you’re saying though. At first glance staff over shortbow seems like a crazy idea; but when I first put it on I started winning a lot more fights and a lot more games. Just because my playstyle complemented it. I’m making a montage of D/P staff and I have some PvP clips. It is an very powerful tool for thieves in the right hands.

Yes, using a different class(or shortbow) is easier. Is it more fun? Not for a lot of thieves. Can thief be done? Absolutely.

And about the condi clear part, that’s why I don’t get hit in the first place, or use generosity sigil/shadowstep if I really need the burst clear. Plus, I usually run signet of agility.

I’ve played with lots of great thieves. This is,what I base my stance on. Just the other day on forest a thief literally won the game. He/She were so darn good I was flabbergasted at what they accomplished. Every single time a point was left open it was decapped. It was a dream because my team had a REALLY bad comp and couldn’t win team fights at all. We got wrecked. That thief though made them thin out so all team fights we had a number advantage. That one was your standard DP.

Now I have played with great staff thieves too who like the above thief were able to control the map. I’ve played with the condi thieves who did the same as well.

It doesn’t matter what weapon you use as long as you keep the mobility to control the map. DP Staff gives that up.

Plenty of teams run without a thief. Therefore, plenty of teams run without the mobility of a shortbow and they still do fine. DP Staff sacrifices some vertical mobility for damage, defense, teamfight ability, and 1v1 ability. (Note that staff actually has the same net distance as shortbow, 1800 units with vault using 15 initiative, 1800 units with shortbow using 12, and by the time that initiative regenerates for another arrow, a staff thief can regenerate it as well, so it’s basically the same distance.) The thing that’s really lost is vertical mobility, which can be worked around on certain maps (jumping on the huts with vault to get to mid faster on khylo).

You may argue that other classes do it better, and while it’s certainly easier, a DP staff thief, when played well, still retains good decap/roaming ability but gains teamfight effectiveness and 1v1 effectiveness. Running DP staff, I can kill classes that I would just run away from after a few hits if I was using shortbow. On DP Staff, Dragonhunters, Revenants, Ele’s, and other classes I usually would have trouble against are all able to be killed by me, granted they’re not running bunker. So you actually gain the ability to peel off from a teamfight, kill the guy sitting on far (or just cap it if there’s nobody there), come back, and continue teamfighting.

I’m not trying to say that DP Staff is better than shortbow, because I think they’re equal, but complement different comps and playstyles better.