Guild Wars 2

I will try not to make this a “meh” thread but I would like to put down my thoughts about how I currently feel as a thief in SPvP.

I generally feel now and then (it is still penetrates my mind) that a thief does not shine in SPvP as it does in WvW situations doing it solo. It is not about the X ratio of winning nor being top player with points, for me team comes first so thus enjoying playing with certain players and winning is more important than anything else. As SPvP rating becomes instinctively higher skill based I just feel that whether winning or losing, I do not enjoy it as much as I should. Basically, If the team wins, I am happy, if it loses train of thoughts pop up and lead to the following;

There will always be this thought at the back of my mind that a team comp in higher SPvP ratings is truly better off not to have a thief but have something else. I just do not think or believe thief blends well with groups apart from other games that I have played that a thief dwells perfectly well with healers or support units (buffs givers).

Certainly you can point out to condi types of builds or some other related stuff but I find that particular build and other things (i.e caltrops) to be extremely boring and unsatisfactory. I tried playing around with most types available and I found P/D exceptionally tiresome. It just doesn’t make me enjoy the class properly. It is good to win and so on and so forth but if I don’t enjoy the way I win it, it just doesn’t do anything for me to be honest. To put it simply, if I use a build that is not as challenging, even though lets say it will increase my ration of wins, it still won’t do any good.

Whenever Guild Wars 2 becomes Esports, I would like to bet my money that less and less SPvP groups would take a thief with them. It is probably psychological but these current thoughts have existed since starting this whole SPvP business and it is hard not to be bothered by them now and again.

Not sure how many thieves gave up on SPvP and switched to WvW as solo or duo but I would like to have some feedback of their reasons for doing so, since I am at a point where after the patch I will have to reconsider where I should invest more time.

WvW >>>>>> sPvP

Tis a sad, sad day when people come to this realization but have you ever tried using sword in spvp? honestly, I’m waiting with my team for something big to happen (I guess ladder maybe) while we do other stuff. Also, I do not believe condition thief belongs in spvp due to their role being outdone by other classes and the fact that they do not beat rangers 1v1.

WvW can be alot of fun for a while , running around in zergs and running 5 km to find a few solo ganks gets tiresome quite fast. If you want to find fast opponents it’s easier to jump into hotjoin or tournaments. It’s alot more fun in the long run atleast for me.

I enjoy both sPvP and WvW with my thief, currently running a troll/survival d/p build. For a roaming role the thief is superior, but for capping points it’s a problem because of the stealth not capping thing (which I think is right).

In sPvP a thief burst is nice to instantly kill someone running to aid their teammates, which I think is a nice role, but gets boring in the long run. What I like to do is do what they don’t expect. A single thief behind their lines slaying their lord, killing svanir, chieftain or capping points they don’t protect. So for a trolling and roaming role it’s superior to any other class, as far as I know.

But then again, you could do these things in WvW too… Solo supply camps, take down supply runners, dolyaks, run supply for your own team or pick off people in the back of the Zerg. As WvW is today I prefer sPvP, I’m so sick of commanders yelling “every one on me, NOW!”…. For some reason WvW have turned into a who-got-the-bigger-zerg wins, no skill required what so ever. What’s fun though is to be a small five man group working together on killing larger groups or smaller Zergs. That is hilarious!

Authority.6145:

There will always be this thought at the back of my mind that a team comp in higher SPvP ratings is truly better off not to have a thief but have something else. I just do not think or believe thief blends well with groups apart from other games that I have played that a thief dwells perfectly well with healers or support units (buffs givers).

Because most thieves are garbage. Either spamming heartseeker/deathblossom, or betting on baslisk venom and mug for a kill. They hardly represent top thieves, and if you haven’t seen the good ones it just meant you didn’t have the MMR to see them.

A good thief can reliably produce 1v1 kills, or hang 2 opponent players off points, giving his team 4v3 advantage. Can back cap 200 points (especially on maps like spirit), or down half of opponent’s team within couple of seconds in a gang fight , none of these functions can be reliably performed by any other classes in highend tournies.

The better tourney games are filled with bunkers, semi-bunkers and cookie cutter builds like 100nader and longbow/gs wars, Very few glasses running around for burst thieves to get free kills (and those glasses are all pro dodgers). These games required the thieves to hang, to stay alive, and sustain dps pressure, things majority of the thieves just aren’t acquainted to.

A good thief is one that knows how to kill every class every build, and knows how to not get killed by them. With that capacity, his presence alone is intimidating, and when he performs, it’s absolutely devastating.

I really get what you are saying, Authority, but I still feel like the thief have a place in SPvP. It’s just down to how you decide to build your comp. My team very rarely do tournaments without a thief, because it is just superior in mobility/taking down targets. No other class can offer the same combination. Of course a thief is not needed and I’ve seen many high end teams without one, but that doesn’t mean it is not useful.
You just have to find out what the thief can do, that no other class can do better and then play that role!
I’d recommend reading Lowell’s guide (even though it is a little outdated) and Caed’s guide as well. Gives a really nice overview of the thief and what role in SPvP they have.

I used to WvW exclusively and not sPvP – because WvW is why I played mmo’s and I never really got the hang of my thief class in sPvP, however I changed recently and have been playing sPvP exclusively OP, its a blast. I got fed up running around in WvW for about 3 minutes before finding a fight I guess. Whether I’m a rubbish thief or not doesn’t matter I top charts and sometimes bottom them, but I find it great fun. I run S/P and SB (I have never been able to bring myself to play the very over subscribed D/D) – using Basilisk Venom and Haste (which I never used in WvW) with shadowstep and Refuge. I think its an all rounder helping me rez downed team mates as well as dish out decent damage with mobility. I think PW is unfortunately not so useful without Haste and that’s not ideal but it works for me. I use SB probably to do most of my damage in certain situations I’m banging out the damage and people are ignoring the guy with the tiny bow. Tournament PvP is different and I’ve never played that and I’d assume it would require very different skillsets and playstyle in co-ordination. I think sPvP is kinda hectic and fun and whether you play a certain build or class may not be as important – it seems to me – mostly people queue up individually. So try out sPvP with your thief its quick and fun. Tournament PvP may require more of a rethink, but I consider sPvP just plain old fun.

Noctis Assassin.4035:

Tis a sad, sad day when people come to this realization but have you ever tried using sword in spvp? honestly, I’m waiting with my team for something big to happen (I guess ladder maybe) while we do other stuff. Also, I do not believe condition thief belongs in spvp due to their role being outdone by other classes and the fact that they do not beat rangers 1v1.

I tried a couple of times S/P but it didn’t feel right. Although same thing happened when I switched to D/P from D/D so I will give it a try.

Will probably watch some videos and how traits and utilities are scattered as a S/P because I still do not get how I should approach 1v1s.

Honestly it might be just getting burned or losing interest because of no incentive.

Geiir.7603:

But then again, you could do these things in WvW too… Solo supply camps, take down supply runners, dolyaks, run supply for your own team or pick off people in the back of the Zerg. As WvW is today I prefer sPvP, I’m so sick of commanders yelling “every one on me, NOW!”…. For some reason WvW have turned into a who-got-the-bigger-zerg wins, no skill required what so ever. What’s fun though is to be a small five man group working together on killing larger groups or smaller Zergs. That is hilarious!

Not sure what type of actual tactics and strategies are involved with WvW Raids but from the few videos I have watched it is just watching a bunch of people running together from one point to the other.

Been really impressed with a small five man group doing its own style so yeah that would be definitely something to look for.

Brassnautilus.2941:

Authority.6145:

There will always be this thought at the back of my mind that a team comp in higher SPvP ratings is truly better off not to have a thief but have something else. I just do not think or believe thief blends well with groups apart from other games that I have played that a thief dwells perfectly well with healers or support units (buffs givers).

The better tourney games are filled with bunkers, semi-bunkers and cookie cutter builds like 100nader and longbow/gs wars, Very few glasses running around for burst thieves to get free kills (and those glasses are all pro dodgers). These games required the thieves to hang, to stay alive, and sustain dps pressure, things majority of the thieves just aren’t acquainted to.

I agree with most of your points being made. Not sure though that the general attitude of GW2 community is currently accepting a more balanced dps thief version build from my experience. Seems that the moment you tend to make a suggestion or ask your team mates for guidance to twitch some part of your traits it is often negative since full burst dps thief are what is accepted and allowed.

Kind of wish there was a better rotation system or more incentive for 8man tournaments since they take ages to start and doing the same map all over again in mmorpg is annoying to me (in comparison with moba games that I don’t seem to care at all to be honest).

Briix.6872:

I really get what you are saying, Authority, but I still feel like the thief have a place in SPvP. It’s just down to how you decide to build your comp. My team very rarely do tournaments without a thief, because it is just superior in mobility/taking down targets. No other class can offer the same combination. Of course a thief is not needed and I’ve seen many high end teams without one, but that doesn’t mean it is not useful.
You just have to find out what the thief can do, that no other class can do better and then play that role!
I’d recommend reading Lowell’s guide (even though it is a little outdated) and Caed’s guide as well. Gives a really nice overview of the thief and what role in SPvP they have.

Maybe grouping up later on with 40ranks+ might break down some misconceptions I have got so far as SPvP goes and how team com works. I just feel a bit limited with the typical role I am being put on as being below 30.

It really depends on what you like.

sPvP: Fast combat with a lot of kills and a lot of deaths
WvW (Solo): Hope you find someone who is in the wrong place and kill them. Alternatively you could be a yak killer or WP contester.
WvW (Zerg): Can still be a lot of fun, but the class isn’t as strong here compared to others