Guild Wars 2

Thieves, rejoice!
In HoT, every profession will get to choose from 3 trait lines and have to max those lines out, rather than spreading traits over 4 or even 5 trait lines.

Which class did always go deep in their lines, aiming for the Grandmasters and never wanted to invest in more than 3 places anyway? Right, thieves!
So while many classes lose something and gain something else in return, we lose nothing and gain a lot in return!

So now the only question: Will the specialization be a rifle or a torch?

Are you a PR personnel for ArenaNet?

Because this specialization is horrible and crippling for Thieves.

Not being able to trait for both Infusion and Embrace (or Thrill and Uncatchable) because they are both in Adept is the biggest BS ever.

If they are aiming to killing the game — they are heading in the right direction.

Look at popular builds for other classes. I’m already glad, thieves didn’t get the short end of the stick this time around.

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

That would make me happy no sarcasm.

naphack.9346:

Look at popular builds for other classes. I’m already glad, thieves didn’t get the short end of the stick this time around.

We have 6 traits to choose from Adept,10 traits to choose from Master and 13 traits from Grandmaster. After HoT, we’ll have 3 traits to choose for each tier.

You honestly don’t see the problem here?

Sagat.3285:

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

That would make me happy no sarcasm.

Yea especially when they will be as viable as traps we already have…..

I don’t see a problem.
Are all 13 of these current traits even viable choices?
Let’s be honest, would you slot concealed defeat in your grandmaster slot?
Currently, for most parts, we have the illusion of choice. While theoretically, we could shift around traits wildly, most trait assignments make absolutely no sense, while we have powerful “must have” traits overshadowing everything else.
Honestly, especially for thieves, there’s currently only a few cases, where adept traits are picked for the master slot anyway.

See this change as a chance for more build diversity. Especially with the stats being dropped from trait lines, more possibilities will be opened.

As for the infusion + embrace thingie: With traitlines being locked down to “take all or take nothing”, it’s now possible to move infusion of shadows to the minor slot. Regaining initiative on entering stealth could be a baseline ability of shadow arts builds.

Currently, it’d be stupid because having such a strong trait with a single point of investment would be overpowered.

naphack.9346:

I don’t see a problem.
Are all 13 of these current traits even viable choices?
Let’s be honest, would you slot concealed defeat in your grandmaster slot?

That’s not my point. Sure there are traits that needs to go, but that’s all they really have to do, replace the unwanted traits.

Currently, for most parts, we have the illusion of choice. While theoretically, we could shift around traits wildly, most trait assignments make absolutely no sense, while we have powerful “must have” traits overshadowing everything else.

Yes, the illusion of choice exist, but not in the way you think. Right now, our choices are between a BMW and Pinto — while what we’re asking is a meaningful choice like between BMW and Mercedes.

Honestly, especially for thieves, there’s currently only a few cases, where adept traits are picked for the master slot anyway.

That’s an ArenaNet attitude. Just brush it off and pretend they never exist.

See this change as a chance for more build diversity. Especially with the stats being dropped from trait lines, more possibilities will be opened.

This doesn’t create diversity because players will still pick the same cookie-cutter build.

Actually, I am fairly certain now, that infusion of shadows will be the new minor trait.
If they have to reduce 6(7) minor traits to 3(4), it makes sense to throw out the ones, which received lots of complaint first. Especially in a trait line as stacked on adepts as shadow arts.
That still leaves a lot of traits hanging… If they remove shadow protector, the ninja nurse will lose like half of its appeal…

As we are already dissecting the shadow arts line:
The major traits will probably drop both power shots and hidden thief, which makes room to move one minor trait up.
My prediction:
Minor adept – infusion
Major adept – protector, embrace, (MoD OR Pulse)
Major master – patience, cloak, leech

rest remains unchanged.

Awaltir.5302:

Sagat.3285:

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

That would make me happy no sarcasm.

Yea especially when they will be as viable as traps we already have…..

I use traps in WvW with runes of the trappers if they make them better or had weapon/heal/elites that fits with them it’s a +. This is the same process that created revenant that I stated before have the best design out of all classes.

Sagat.3285:

Awaltir.5302:

Sagat.3285:

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

That would make me happy no sarcasm.

Yea especially when they will be as viable as traps we already have…..

I use traps in WvW with runes of the trappers if they make them better or had weapon/heal/elites that fits with them it’s a +. This is the same process that created revenant that I stated before have the best design out of all classes.

I do understand that you like traps but let’s face it , most people don’t , also how do they fit the theme of fast agile fighter who relies on stealth and dodges?

As for traits I dislike that i can’t decide if i want 2 adept traits . Rest is ok , most of the traits are placeholders anyway so if they will make some real choice it will be nice.

Awaltir.5302:

Sagat.3285:

Awaltir.5302:

Sagat.3285:

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

That would make me happy no sarcasm.

Yea especially when they will be as viable as traps we already have…..

I use traps in WvW with runes of the trappers if they make them better or had weapon/heal/elites that fits with them it’s a +. This is the same process that created revenant that I stated before have the best design out of all classes.

I do understand that you like traps but let’s face it , most people don’t , also how do they fit the theme of fast agile fighter who relies on stealth and dodges?

As for traits I dislike that i can’t decide if i want 2 adept traits . Rest is ok , most of the traits are placeholders anyway so if they will make some real choice it will be nice.

They fit the theme of a kitten, who uses everything at their disposal in order to win.

naphack.9346:

Awaltir.5302:

Sagat.3285:

Awaltir.5302:

Sagat.3285:

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

That would make me happy no sarcasm.

Yea especially when they will be as viable as traps we already have…..

I use traps in WvW with runes of the trappers if they make them better or had weapon/heal/elites that fits with them it’s a +. This is the same process that created revenant that I stated before have the best design out of all classes.

I do understand that you like traps but let’s face it , most people don’t , also how do they fit the theme of fast agile fighter who relies on stealth and dodges?

As for traits I dislike that i can’t decide if i want 2 adept traits . Rest is ok , most of the traits are placeholders anyway so if they will make some real choice it will be nice.

They fit the theme of a kitten, who uses everything at their disposal in order to win.

TBH i rather dislike it not because it does not fit theme but rather that it will be viable in only one game mode (WvW).

Awaltir.5302:

naphack.9346:

Awaltir.5302:

Sagat.3285:

Awaltir.5302:

Sagat.3285:

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

That would make me happy no sarcasm.

Yea especially when they will be as viable as traps we already have…..

I use traps in WvW with runes of the trappers if they make them better or had weapon/heal/elites that fits with them it’s a +. This is the same process that created revenant that I stated before have the best design out of all classes.

I do understand that you like traps but let’s face it , most people don’t , also how do they fit the theme of fast agile fighter who relies on stealth and dodges?

As for traits I dislike that i can’t decide if i want 2 adept traits . Rest is ok , most of the traits are placeholders anyway so if they will make some real choice it will be nice.

They fit the theme of a kitten, who uses everything at their disposal in order to win.

TBH i rather dislike it not because it does not fit theme but rather that it will be viable in only one game mode (WvW).

They could add the runes to PvP like shouts with Soldier Runes or find a way for the traps to be useful without the rune. The specialisation could be a scout, thief is not a assasin an assassin is a thief so it fits the theme.

To increase diversity by reducing the number of traits and means of selecting them.

#AnetLogic

From the looks of things they decided to toss their system in the bin and blatantly rip off Skyrim.

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

Would not be surprised at all. Wonder if we will be “lucky” enough to get a torch off-hand as opposed to a rifle or greatsword.

Odyssey.2613:

To increase diversity by reducing the number of traits and means of selecting them.

#AnetLogic
…

Yeah, not sure why game companies are doing this, dumbing down skill systems, but I (as a gamer) feel a bit insulted…

The other thing is, besides doing that to the traits… More than likely, all the weapons sets will still function fundamentally the same, a P/D will still probably stack bleeds/conditions, a S/D will still be stirpping boons/evading, D/P will still be trying to backstab, and so on… Since they haven’t added the ability to pick and choose skills for each weapon… So, really the only fresh build we will be getting is the one that will be using the torch/rifle/greatsword (whichever we’re “lucky” or “unlucky” to get).

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

Well, no, they say trap as “new utilities”. Trap ain’t new on Thieves. I really think thieves are safe in this regard.
On the other hand, we can expect trap for Mesmers or engi. And I can easily imagine shouts for necromancer… this would be laughable.

Maybe I can finally use Residual Venom + Venom Share without losing Bountiful Theft now~ or even gain Sleight of Hands ;x Using both Venom GMs just gimps u so hard currently. Even better if they delete some of these Venom traits and apply them to the skill itself.

Doggie.3184:

Maybe I can finally use Residual Venom + Venom Share without losing Bountiful Theft now~ or even gain Sleight of Hands ;x Using both Venom GMs just gimps u so hard currently. Even better if they delete some of these Venom traits and apply them to the skill itself.

I wouldn’t go with my hopes high they probably will leave traits that are “the best” in their opinion.

Awaltir.5302:

Doggie.3184:

Maybe I can finally use Residual Venom + Venom Share without losing Bountiful Theft now~ or even gain Sleight of Hands ;x Using both Venom GMs just gimps u so hard currently. Even better if they delete some of these Venom traits and apply them to the skill itself.

I wouldn’t go with my hopes high they probably will leave traits that are “the best” in their opinion.

It’s just excessive that I need to use 4-5 traits to make a single utility type skill useful. . Really needs addressed.

I have a very strong feeling that they will merge traits to create new ones. If you look at the screen shot of the article you’ll see new icons.. assume Fresh Air and Aeromancer training are going to be merged.. it would make more sense for them to do that..

so wait. for acrobatic SD thieves for example….will we no longer be able to use both Vigorous Recovery and Power of Inertia bc they are both adept? If so i will be rather upset.

Treeoflife.4031:

so wait. for acrobatic SD thieves for example….will we no longer be able to use both Vigorous Recovery and Power of Inertia bc they are both adept? If so i will be rather upset.

I disbelieve this but there is a small chance that this traits will be merged because they affect same thing (dodge).

Awaltir.5302:

Treeoflife.4031:

so wait. for acrobatic SD thieves for example….will we no longer be able to use both Vigorous Recovery and Power of Inertia bc they are both adept? If so i will be rather upset.

I disbelieve this but there is a small chance that this traits will be merged because they affect same thing (dodge).

Or will be deemed too “OP” and thrown away/replaced.

naphack.9346:

Actually, I am fairly certain now, that infusion of shadows will be the new minor trait.
If they have to reduce 6(7) minor traits to 3(4), it makes sense to throw out the ones, which received lots of complaint first. Especially in a trait line as stacked on adepts as shadow arts.
That still leaves a lot of traits hanging… If they remove shadow protector, the ninja nurse will lose like half of its appeal…

As we are already dissecting the shadow arts line:
The major traits will probably drop both power shots and hidden thief, which makes room to move one minor trait up.
My prediction:
Minor adept – infusion
Major adept – protector, embrace, (MoD OR Pulse)
Major master – patience, cloak, leech

rest remains unchanged.

I surely hope you’re right. I surely hope.

Judging based on what was shown so far — I’m not liking it.

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

“Almost every elite specialization will gain access to a complete set of new skills : a single heal, four utility skills, and one elite skill. Revenants will gain a healing skill, an elite skill, and a set of utilities of the same type. One specialization will have access to traps , while at least one profession’s elite specialization will be a full set of six shouts. In order to equip any of these new skills, you’ll have to train and equip the corresponding elite specialization. We’ll also be reusing old types of skills like shouts and traps to create more synergy with the Rune system.”

From the sections I’ve bolded, if I’m reading this right, we’ve avoided getting trap specialization because we already have access to them. Maybe mesmers will get them. No other class really makes sense to get traps to me and we saw that mesmer cast a temporal AoE skill in the trailer which may or may not have been a weapon skill (maybe a time trap that causes slowness on enemies; the opposite of time warp) edit; oh crap….pu mesmers with trapper runes

As for people worried about losing choice of traits from the same tier, keep in mind that they said they’ll be rolling some trait functionality into base skills and moving some stuff around. I’m not saying I’m not worried about it, but they’re paring down the useless ones it seems, so some that you really like could be rolled into a better trait overall or moved up a tier.

Edit 2: “How does a trait that removes a condition every time you evade an attack sound?” This line makes me worry a lot less. They’re adding some pretty cool stuff to the game it seems.

It looks like Anet is streamlining in an effort to make things easier for themselves. I can’t help but look at this as lazy. Can anyone give me an example where this would benefit us?

P.S. I have a hunch the traps will be for Engineers, but who knows. We all know Anet loves to forces things we don’t want nor asked for down our throat. lol

Wait until you see SD Thief with Withdraw on 12sec CD.

6/6/6 called it!!!

So… we’re going to have 45 traits now + 9 from elite spec.

Zero Day.2594:

So… we’re going to have 45 traits now + 9 from elite spec.

I think it’s 60 (15 minor, 45 Majors (15 Adept, 15 Master, 15 GM)) + 12 assuming that elite spec follows the same format.

Nephrite.6954:

6/6/6 called it!!!

Hmm, you’re right…that might not be too bad.

My current 50036 will become 60066…I’m still skeptic since I’m not sure what choices are there, but it might not be too bad.

We’ll see. I’m still sour about not being able to pick two Adepts traits from the same line.

Odyssey.2613:

It looks like Anet is streamlining in an effort to make things easier for themselves. I can’t help but look at this as lazy. Can anyone give me an example where this would benefit us?

Well, from a PvE perspective.. in general, Deadly Arts traits aren’t really special, but a lot of us take it anyway because the trait line gives +300 Power (and sticks us with +30% Condi Duration). Now, our trait selections are being decoupled from stats, with the boosts they used to give instead being applied to our gear.

That means that now, I don’t need to take Deadly Arts for PvE anymore. I can now go with Trickery instead and get access to all those fun Steal traits without crippling my character’s DPS. Or Acrobatics for plentiful dodges. I mean, I could even go Shadow Arts/Acrobatics/Trickery and come up with some really silly mix of traits, without affecting my base stats at all. If I tried to do that now I’d definitely notice the loss of 300 Power/300 Precision/300 Ferocity. If I do it after this overhaul, the only things I’d be missing are the boosts from the traits themselves, be it Dagger Training or Executioner or Revealed Training.

I’ll need to see when all the details are released just how much I might wind up missing Executioner. But whatever the case, I know I’m going to have more freedom to make a DPS Thief without feeling the need to go Deadly Arts/Critical Strikes all the way like I do now.

This isn’t even close to the catastrophe that a lot of people think it is, but it isn’t the huge boon that the other group thinks it is either. Thieves will be just as good as they always have been (certainly not worse) but it does seem like it kind of kills build diversity. Shadow arts and Acrobatics are pretty much going to be worthless (at least that’s how it seems right now) because it won’t be worth it to invest in them. Just as it isn’t worth the DPS loss to go 6 deep in them right now.

Gern.2978:

This isn’t even close to the catastrophe that a lot of people think it is, but it isn’t the huge boon that the other group thinks it is either. Thieves will be just as good as they always have been (certainly not worse) but it does seem like it kind of kills build diversity. Shadow arts and Acrobatics are pretty much going to be worthless (at least that’s how it seems right now) because it won’t be worth it to invest in them. Just as it isn’t worth the DPS loss to go 6 deep in them right now.

Why would acrobatics be worthless to put points into?

kash.9213:

Gern.2978:

This isn’t even close to the catastrophe that a lot of people think it is, but it isn’t the huge boon that the other group thinks it is either. Thieves will be just as good as they always have been (certainly not worse) but it does seem like it kind of kills build diversity. Shadow arts and Acrobatics are pretty much going to be worthless (at least that’s how it seems right now) because it won’t be worth it to invest in them. Just as it isn’t worth the DPS loss to go 6 deep in them right now.

Why would acrobatics be worthless to put points into?

It is past Felice Grace unless you reeeally want the ini boost at 4pts for Dual Pistols, and despite what some people may think, Pain Response is horrible.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Zero Day.2594:

So… we’re going to have 45 traits now + 9 from elite spec.

I think it’s 60 (15 minor, 45 Majors (15 Adept, 15 Master, 15 GM)) + 12 assuming that elite spec follows the same format.

Yeah 60, I was only really counting 45 since those ones are the ones we can choose. the 15 (3 per line) that you get along the way are not by choice kind of. As in if you want the GM one, you will have to get the 3 minors.

Maugetarr.6823:

Awaltir.5302:

Yes i think we will get this stick right in the a…. , because some “lucky” profession will get traps for specialization and it will be probably us….

“Almost every elite specialization will gain access to a complete set of new skills : a single heal, four utility skills, and one elite skill. Revenants will gain a healing skill, an elite skill, and a set of utilities of the same type. *

The text said “new set of skills” which can mean new skill type but also can mean just new skill for profession , not new type.
Sadly if we get rifle it is most probable because traps mostly fit to ranged weapons and i rather doubt that golden child guard will get this kitten.

Doggie.3184:

It is past Felice Grace unless you reeeally want the ini boost at 4pts for Dual Pistols, and despite what some people may think, Pain Response is horrible.

Despite what you may think, Pain Response isn’t horrible. It’s the second best choice in Acro right behind vigorous recovery. I’m also pretty sure acro will get the condi remove on evade, which might fit S/D even better. New standard S/D will probably be 6 0 0 6 6 anyway.

I sincerely, truly, faithfully, earnestly, genuinely, honestly, truthfully hope that last refuge will be one of the traits that will be removed/revamped

laquito.5269:

Doggie.3184:

It is past Felice Grace unless you reeeally want the ini boost at 4pts for Dual Pistols, and despite what some people may think, Pain Response is horrible.

Despite what you may think, Pain Response isn’t horrible. It’s the second best choice in Acro right behind vigorous recovery. I’m also pretty sure acro will get the condi remove on evade, which might fit S/D even better. New standard S/D will probably be 6 0 0 6 6 anyway.

You do know countering my “despiteness” with the same thing just leads to nothing right? You’ve solved nothing. ;/ I’d actually hope they just removed the trait completely for that dodge one.

What’s changing in hot about a specs?

So, quick thought, are we actually getting semi-survivable burst builds now? I mean we can go 66006 after this picking up the executioner, revealed training, and SoH all in one. This would also give us 3 grandmaster-minor damage modifiers actually increasing our output damage.

Maugetarr.6823:

So, quick thought, are we actually getting semi-survivable burst builds now? I mean we can go 66006 after this picking up the executioner, revealed training, and SoH all in one. This would also give us 3 grandmaster-minor damage modifiers actually increasing our output damage.

Our output damage is relative to what other changes ArenaNet will do to compensate for the loss of stats from the trait lines.

It’s too early to predict our final damage output until we see details to the new armor stats.

Theoretically, yes, 66006 should be an increase in damage output if DA still gives us +power and CS gives us +crit and +ferocity.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Maugetarr.6823:

So, quick thought, are we actually getting semi-survivable burst builds now? I mean we can go 66006 after this picking up the executioner, revealed training, and SoH all in one. This would also give us 3 grandmaster-minor damage modifiers actually increasing our output damage.

Our output damage is relative to what other changes ArenaNet will do to compensate for the loss of stats from the trait lines.

It’s too early to predict our final damage output until we see details to the new armor stats.

Theoretically, yes, 66006 should be an increase in damage output if DA still gives us +power and CS gives us +crit and +ferocity.

Pretty sure stats are being disassociated from trait lines, and those stats are being added to base stats and/or gear. (Meaning, you will now be even more gear dependent).

“Deadly arts will now be much focused on poison and delivering deliberating conditions.” according to dulfy’s stream notes

(still waiting on there completion :P before jumping the gun on anything. (And well, their actual in game release… whenever that is (speculating a month or two before HoT release(bracketspection!))))

Zero Day.2594:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Maugetarr.6823:

So, quick thought, are we actually getting semi-survivable burst builds now? I mean we can go 66006 after this picking up the executioner, revealed training, and SoH all in one. This would also give us 3 grandmaster-minor damage modifiers actually increasing our output damage.

Our output damage is relative to what other changes ArenaNet will do to compensate for the loss of stats from the trait lines.

It’s too early to predict our final damage output until we see details to the new armor stats.

Theoretically, yes, 66006 should be an increase in damage output if DA still gives us +power and CS gives us +crit and +ferocity.

Pretty sure stats are being disassociated from trait lines, and those stats are being added to base stats and/or gear. (Meaning, you will now be even more gear dependent).

“Deadly arts will now be much focused on poison and delivering deliberating conditions.” according to dulfy’s stream notes

(still waiting on there completion :P before jumping the gun on anything. (And well, their actual in game release… whenever that is (speculating a month or two before HoT release(bracketspection!))))

Thanks for the link, I was waiting for these.

From those images, QQ-fest to the new Improvisation.

EDIT: Wait-what? Executioner in DA? Whaat?

And This has got to be the most Useless trait in the game now…

Flanking strikes:
Lose ALL endurance, 50% slower endurance regin. 6 second haste…..

not only does it kitten over your dodging, but that 6seconds haste completly screws up the frame rates on FS. so you can’t dodge at all… on a squishy thieve, Face palming is not even remotely enough for this change.

Highlie.7641:

And This has got to be the most Useless trait in the game now…

Flanking strikes:
Lose ALL endurance, 50% slower endurance regin. 6 second haste…..

not only does it kitten over your dodging, but that 6seconds haste completly screws up the frame rates on FS. so you can’t dodge at all… on a squishy thieve, Face palming is not even remotely enough for this change.

Yeah, they need to fix that. It was worth losing all endurance before when Haste grants 100% attack speed. But ever since they nerfed that to only grant 50%, losing endurance is stupid and nobody will spec for that.

Yeah I believe if its a choice between Flanking strikes and Thrill of the crime. Thrill will win hands down.

I don’t want to give the dev’s to much grief yet though. as it does seems they put some time into this. and there will probably be a few changes between now and live.

I just can’t shake the feeling this is going to be the initiative changes all over again. (seen as a buff by the wide community, and seen as nerf to every thief except for p/d)

Time will tell i suppose