Guild Wars 2

Thoughts on adding an effect to the burning condition that does not allow burning foes to enter stealth while on fire.

None is needed.

You must be kittening me…

Duration is too long. It would be better to do things like add anti-crit to a condition (like Blind or Weakness) and make Chilled increase initiative costs (seeing as how we lack weapon cooldowns).

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Duration is too long. It would be better to do things like add anti-crit to a condition (like Blind or Weakness) and make *Chilled increase initiative costs *(seeing as how we lack weapon cooldowns).

When Weapon Swapping gives thieves back full ini, let’s talk.

The goal of the idea is to balance out the ability of thieves to enter a fight at no risk. Right now because there are no mounts for chasing, escapes are very powerful. Stealth is the most powerful escape because it essentially provides a get out of jail free card at any time for escaping an encounter.

The objective is to create a mechanism that adds risk to an encounter. The idea adds a mechanism for forcing a thief to stay in a fight instead of being able to vanish without a trace and reset the fight at will and with high frequency.

While non-crit and chilled ideas are great ideas, they still don’t fix the problem of no fight commitment that thieves are entitled to

While thieves should not be easily trapped in every fight, there should be a stealth counter mechanisms that increase the degree of difficulty in fleeing an encounter.

The problem with the idea is that burning is plentiful, easy to apply, and easy to maintain.

It might be better to add an illumination buff to only certain burning abilities that applies a 2-3 second debuff on thieves and mesmers that prevents them from stealthing.

lordhelmos.7623:

The goal of the idea is to balance out the ability of thieves to enter a fight at no risk. ….

The risk is determined by the skill of their adversary, no skill == no risk.

Thieves have a trait which gets rid of 1 condition when you stealth and every 3 seconds in stealth.

“Shadow Arts IV – Remove 1 condition for every 3 seconds of stealth.”

Because of this trait your idea won’t work.

lordhelmos.7623:

Thoughts on adding an effect to the burning condition that does not allow burning foes to enter stealth while on fire.

guardian can burn you for 20 seconds in row from 1200 range, with 0 condition duration
virtue of justice – does not require to hit you, first hit if you are in his range will burn you
purging flames -ground targeting burning (AOE)
Judge intervention (teleport + AOE)
renewed focus ( another virtue of justice)
kinda hard counter you chosed

Just because you don’t see the thief doesn’t mean it’s not there. Just spam some aoe’s.

lordhelmos.7623:

The goal of the idea is to balance out the ability of thieves to enter a fight at no risk. Right now because there are no mounts for chasing, escapes are very powerful. Stealth is the most powerful escape because it essentially provides a get out of jail free card at any time for escaping an encounter.

The objective is to create a mechanism that adds risk to an encounter. The idea adds a mechanism for forcing a thief to stay in a fight instead of being able to vanish without a trace and reset the fight at will and with high frequency.

While non-crit and chilled ideas are great ideas, they still don’t fix the problem of no fight commitment that thieves are entitled to

While thieves should not be easily trapped in every fight, there should be a stealth counter mechanisms that increase the degree of difficulty in fleeing an encounter.

The problem with the idea is that burning is plentiful, easy to apply, and easy to maintain.

It might be better to add an illumination buff to only certain burning abilities that applies a 2-3 second debuff on thieves and mesmers that prevents them from stealthing.

Why should a class with 10k base hp and medium armor be forced to commit to fights, especially seeing as how their sustained damage can’t hope to match that of Warriors or other high durability professions?

And why burning – a condition that is easily inflicted by literally every non-Thief profession? Hell, anyone can equip Forge(?) runes and get a free, long-duration burn against the Thief as soon as they drop to 50% health, along with a free 10 second Protection to make the Thief’s forced commitment even more useless.

Your idea has no merit. Thieves are SUPPOSED to have commitment issues. Give them enough base health to survive a sustained encounter and then talk to me about forcing commitment.

lordhelmos.7623:

Thoughts on adding an effect to the burning condition that does not allow burning foes to enter stealth while on fire.

I agree if the folowing things cannot happen if the target is on fire,bleeding,or poisoned:
1.Warrior cannot gain adrenaline and lose 8000hp
2.Necro cannot have minions,enter Death Shroud and lose 8000hp
3.Mesmer cannot have clones/illusions
4.Ranger don’t have pet
5.Ele cannot change attunements
6.Guardian loses all his passives
7.Engi cannot plant any turrets/mines/bombs e.t.c

How about allowing people who hit you to see their damage numbers? That way they’ll have an idea of where you are once they hit you. This would exclude condition ticks though, since that’d allow easy tracking

As it is now, there’s no way to tell if you’re actually hitting a stealthed opponent or just swinging into the air.

Navzar.2938:

How about allowing people who hit you to see their damage numbers? That way they’ll have an idea of where you are once they hit you. This would exclude condition ticks though, since that’d allow easy tracking

As it is now, there’s no way to tell if you’re actually hitting a stealthed opponent or just swinging into the air.

Actually, there is.

For example:

Chain skills are extremely easy to use and lets you see if you’re hitting a stealthed target or not.

Channel skills always hit stealthed enemies and lets you see exactly where they are. Mesmer illusions do too…and exceptionally well, while at it.

When it comes to skilled players v/s other skilled players, thieves are best at killing other thieves. Thief is in fact the weakest of all the classes (believe it or not).

It’s unnecessary.

Kurow

When it comes to skilled players v/s other skilled players, thieves are best at killing other thieves. Thief is in fact the weakest of all the classes (believe it or not).

QFT
Thief was my first 80 and is still my favourite profession but it is the weakest of my 80s. The majority of thieves I encounter on my Guardian & Ranger don’t stand a chance unless they are equal or better skilled and every fight I lose against another thief gives a new lesson. My prybar engineer is only 41 and has no trouble against most thieves in WvW unless they are fully geared. This is a learn to play issue which is why we are seeing fewer posts complaining about thieves.

I wouldn’t mind maybe some sort of soft-counter to stealth, but the OP’s idea would either:

A:) Make thieves useless
B:) Force all thieves to take Shadow’s Embrace in the shadow arts tree, leaving the idea completely worthless anyways.

ZLE.8293:

lordhelmos.7623:

Thoughts on adding an effect to the burning condition that does not allow burning foes to enter stealth while on fire.

I agree if the folowing things cannot happen if the target is on fire,bleeding,or poisoned:
1.Warrior cannot gain adrenaline and lose 8000hp
2.Necro cannot have minions,enter Death Shroud and lose 8000hp
3.Mesmer cannot have clones/illusions
4.Ranger don’t have pet
5.Ele cannot change attunements
6.Guardian loses all his passives
7.Engi cannot plant any turrets/mines/bombs e.t.c

I will accept those terms as well.

What would be the point in the thief… Everyone can burn foes in some way shape or form. So stealth would be made useless… I think stealth is under powered in my opinion, since most skills are 3 seconds, 4 if traited… I’m not saying we should have perm stealth like WoW. But really if you’re going to complain about 3-10 seconds of stealth, then you have a LOT to complain about in this game. There are much more serious matters.

lordhelmos.7623:

The goal of the idea is to balance out the ability of thieves to enter a fight at no risk. Right now because there are no mounts for chasing, escapes are very powerful. Stealth is the most powerful escape because it essentially provides a get out of jail free card at any time for escaping an encounter.

It’s not a get out of jail free unless combined with other utilities like Shadowstep and that’s only if one of the people giving chase aren’t extremely mobile like GS/S/Sh warrior or D/D Ele or another Thief.

In any event, this is the intended design of a Thief. They are pesky and annoy you. Most people will admit they would beat thieves all the time if they couldn’t run away. This sort of illustrates why they can do it. It just makes them angry because they feel like they deserved the kill. Sort of how I feel every time someone I downed is instantly revived or I’m interrupted three times and they rally off a PvE mob. Know what I do? /sunglasses – deal with it.

ZLE.8293:

lordhelmos.7623:

Thoughts on adding an effect to the burning condition that does not allow burning foes to enter stealth while on fire.

I agree if the folowing things cannot happen if the target is on fire,bleeding,or poisoned:
1.Warrior cannot gain adrenaline and lose 8000hp
2.Necro cannot have minions,enter Death Shroud and lose 8000hp
3.Mesmer cannot have clones/illusions
4.Ranger don’t have pet
5.Ele cannot change attunements
6.Guardian loses all his passives
7.Engi cannot plant any turrets/mines/bombs e.t.c

Gonna have to come up with a better idea for Rangers, as I’m sure they’d love to not have their brain-dead pet out at all times.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordhelmos.7623:

The goal of the idea is to balance out the ability of thieves to enter a fight at no risk. Right now because there are no mounts for chasing, escapes are very powerful. Stealth is the most powerful escape because it essentially provides a get out of jail free card at any time for escaping an encounter.

The objective is to create a mechanism that adds risk to an encounter. The idea adds a mechanism for forcing a thief to stay in a fight instead of being able to vanish without a trace and reset the fight at will and with high frequency.

While non-crit and chilled ideas are great ideas, they still don’t fix the problem of no fight commitment that thieves are entitled to

While thieves should not be easily trapped in every fight, there should be a stealth counter mechanisms that increase the degree of difficulty in fleeing an encounter.

The problem with the idea is that burning is plentiful, easy to apply, and easy to maintain.

It might be better to add an illumination buff to only certain burning abilities that applies a 2-3 second debuff on thieves and mesmers that prevents them from stealthing.

Why should a class with 10k base hp and medium armor be forced to commit to fights, especially seeing as how their sustained damage can’t hope to match that of Warriors or other high durability professions?

And why burning – a condition that is easily inflicted by literally every non-Thief profession? Hell, anyone can equip Forge(?) runes and get a free, long-duration burn against the Thief as soon as they drop to 50% health, along with a free 10 second Protection to make the Thief’s forced commitment even more useless.

Your idea has no merit. Thieves are SUPPOSED to have commitment issues. Give them enough base health to survive a sustained encounter and then talk to me about forcing commitment.

elementalists have the same base health and LOWER armour than a thief not to mention any non bunker ele is more squishy than a thief and deals far far lower damage. Yet people and in particular thieves that i come across complain about eles having an escape mechanism.

Conquest.7629:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordhelmos.7623:

The goal of the idea is to balance out the ability of thieves to enter a fight at no risk. Right now because there are no mounts for chasing, escapes are very powerful. Stealth is the most powerful escape because it essentially provides a get out of jail free card at any time for escaping an encounter.

The objective is to create a mechanism that adds risk to an encounter. The idea adds a mechanism for forcing a thief to stay in a fight instead of being able to vanish without a trace and reset the fight at will and with high frequency.

While non-crit and chilled ideas are great ideas, they still don’t fix the problem of no fight commitment that thieves are entitled to

While thieves should not be easily trapped in every fight, there should be a stealth counter mechanisms that increase the degree of difficulty in fleeing an encounter.

The problem with the idea is that burning is plentiful, easy to apply, and easy to maintain.

It might be better to add an illumination buff to only certain burning abilities that applies a 2-3 second debuff on thieves and mesmers that prevents them from stealthing.

Why should a class with 10k base hp and medium armor be forced to commit to fights, especially seeing as how their sustained damage can’t hope to match that of Warriors or other high durability professions?

And why burning – a condition that is easily inflicted by literally every non-Thief profession? Hell, anyone can equip Forge(?) runes and get a free, long-duration burn against the Thief as soon as they drop to 50% health, along with a free 10 second Protection to make the Thief’s forced commitment even more useless.

Your idea has no merit. Thieves are SUPPOSED to have commitment issues. Give them enough base health to survive a sustained encounter and then talk to me about forcing commitment.

elementalists have the same base health and LOWER armour than a thief not to mention any non bunker ele is more squishy than a thief and deals far far lower damage. Yet people and in particular thieves that i come across complain about eles having an escape mechanism.

I can’t remember the last ele I ran across that wasn’t D/D. They have a ton of movement and staying power built right into their weapon set. It allows them to slot block/immune utilities which a thief has no access to. All together you have the most mobile class in the game dealing decent AoE damage with plenty of immune/blocks etc. Not even sure how you can compare their squishyness.

Conquest.7629:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordhelmos.7623:

The goal of the idea is to balance out the ability of thieves to enter a fight at no risk. Right now because there are no mounts for chasing, escapes are very powerful. Stealth is the most powerful escape because it essentially provides a get out of jail free card at any time for escaping an encounter.

The objective is to create a mechanism that adds risk to an encounter. The idea adds a mechanism for forcing a thief to stay in a fight instead of being able to vanish without a trace and reset the fight at will and with high frequency.

While non-crit and chilled ideas are great ideas, they still don’t fix the problem of no fight commitment that thieves are entitled to

While thieves should not be easily trapped in every fight, there should be a stealth counter mechanisms that increase the degree of difficulty in fleeing an encounter.

The problem with the idea is that burning is plentiful, easy to apply, and easy to maintain.

It might be better to add an illumination buff to only certain burning abilities that applies a 2-3 second debuff on thieves and mesmers that prevents them from stealthing.

Why should a class with 10k base hp and medium armor be forced to commit to fights, especially seeing as how their sustained damage can’t hope to match that of Warriors or other high durability professions?

And why burning – a condition that is easily inflicted by literally every non-Thief profession? Hell, anyone can equip Forge(?) runes and get a free, long-duration burn against the Thief as soon as they drop to 50% health, along with a free 10 second Protection to make the Thief’s forced commitment even more useless.

Your idea has no merit. Thieves are SUPPOSED to have commitment issues. Give them enough base health to survive a sustained encounter and then talk to me about forcing commitment.

elementalists have the same base health and LOWER armour than a thief not to mention any non bunker ele is more squishy than a thief and deals far far lower damage. Yet people and in particular thieves that i come across complain about eles having an escape mechanism.

You must be playing your ele wrong then.

You don’t need big huge numbers flying by your screen to do more damage.

I think hitting them and showing the numbers would be a better solution. That way whacking around actually proves useful, as well as AoE because they can see where those attacks are but we don’t even know if the skill is effective or not.

Kurow.6973:

Conquest.7629:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordhelmos.7623:

The goal of the idea is to balance out the ability of thieves to enter a fight at no risk. Right now because there are no mounts for chasing, escapes are very powerful. Stealth is the most powerful escape because it essentially provides a get out of jail free card at any time for escaping an encounter.

The objective is to create a mechanism that adds risk to an encounter. The idea adds a mechanism for forcing a thief to stay in a fight instead of being able to vanish without a trace and reset the fight at will and with high frequency.

While non-crit and chilled ideas are great ideas, they still don’t fix the problem of no fight commitment that thieves are entitled to

While thieves should not be easily trapped in every fight, there should be a stealth counter mechanisms that increase the degree of difficulty in fleeing an encounter.

The problem with the idea is that burning is plentiful, easy to apply, and easy to maintain.

It might be better to add an illumination buff to only certain burning abilities that applies a 2-3 second debuff on thieves and mesmers that prevents them from stealthing.

Why should a class with 10k base hp and medium armor be forced to commit to fights, especially seeing as how their sustained damage can’t hope to match that of Warriors or other high durability professions?

And why burning – a condition that is easily inflicted by literally every non-Thief profession? Hell, anyone can equip Forge(?) runes and get a free, long-duration burn against the Thief as soon as they drop to 50% health, along with a free 10 second Protection to make the Thief’s forced commitment even more useless.

Your idea has no merit. Thieves are SUPPOSED to have commitment issues. Give them enough base health to survive a sustained encounter and then talk to me about forcing commitment.

elementalists have the same base health and LOWER armour than a thief not to mention any non bunker ele is more squishy than a thief and deals far far lower damage. Yet people and in particular thieves that i come across complain about eles having an escape mechanism.

You must be playing your ele wrong then.

You don’t need big huge numbers flying by your screen to do more damage.

an ele wont kill another player in 1 or 2 shots like a thief in similar gear would, big numbers appearing instantly DO more damage, the 2 biggest hitting skills in a d/d set up are fire grab which has an insane miss rate and a long cooldown, the other is earthquake which forces you to stand still and cast for 2 seconds or so.

I’d be ok with some sort of transparency effect on the Thief when they take direct damage (as in, not condition damage). If you get hit by a melee attack, a AoE attack, etc., you’d show up for a split second. Would be something they could look into once culling is sorted.

As-is, I just use my chained 1-attacks to see if I am hitting a character that’s in stealth. If it goes from first, to second, to third chain, I know I am connecting all my hits and have a pretty good idea where that character is. The problem is that neither Elementalist, nor Engineer, have access to such attacks at all. If us Thief players would show up for a short duration when getting hit with damage, at least every profession would be able to know if their attacks are connecting, while still allowing the Thief to get away if played correctly.

Stiv.1820:

Conquest.7629:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordhelmos.7623:

The goal of the idea is to balance out the ability of thieves to enter a fight at no risk. Right now because there are no mounts for chasing, escapes are very powerful. Stealth is the most powerful escape because it essentially provides a get out of jail free card at any time for escaping an encounter.

The objective is to create a mechanism that adds risk to an encounter. The idea adds a mechanism for forcing a thief to stay in a fight instead of being able to vanish without a trace and reset the fight at will and with high frequency.

While non-crit and chilled ideas are great ideas, they still don’t fix the problem of no fight commitment that thieves are entitled to

While thieves should not be easily trapped in every fight, there should be a stealth counter mechanisms that increase the degree of difficulty in fleeing an encounter.

The problem with the idea is that burning is plentiful, easy to apply, and easy to maintain.

It might be better to add an illumination buff to only certain burning abilities that applies a 2-3 second debuff on thieves and mesmers that prevents them from stealthing.

Why should a class with 10k base hp and medium armor be forced to commit to fights, especially seeing as how their sustained damage can’t hope to match that of Warriors or other high durability professions?

And why burning – a condition that is easily inflicted by literally every non-Thief profession? Hell, anyone can equip Forge(?) runes and get a free, long-duration burn against the Thief as soon as they drop to 50% health, along with a free 10 second Protection to make the Thief’s forced commitment even more useless.

Your idea has no merit. Thieves are SUPPOSED to have commitment issues. Give them enough base health to survive a sustained encounter and then talk to me about forcing commitment.

elementalists have the same base health and LOWER armour than a thief not to mention any non bunker ele is more squishy than a thief and deals far far lower damage. Yet people and in particular thieves that i come across complain about eles having an escape mechanism.

I can’t remember the last ele I ran across that wasn’t D/D. They have a ton of movement and staying power built right into their weapon set. It allows them to slot block/immune utilities which a thief has no access to. All together you have the most mobile class in the game dealing decent AoE damage with plenty of immune/blocks etc. Not even sure how you can compare their squishyness.

lots of movement is better than just being invisible with no way of being targeted?

mist form is on a long cooldown, arcane shield is also on a long cooldown i cant think of any other immune/blocks an ele has unless traited to gain arcane shield at 25% health also. A glass cannon ele will get 1 or 2 shotted by any thief, warrior, mesmer even with protection up most of the time.

a thief can down most players almost instantly then escape free with stealth which it has more than 1 way of casting. Compare that to ride the lightning being an eles escape mechanism which most use to enter battle and then has a 20 second cooldown. Stealth can be used much more frequently to engage and disengage battles.

Conquest.7629:

an ele wont kill another player in 1 or 2 shots like a thief in similar gear would, big numbers appearing instantly DO more damage, the 2 biggest hitting skills in a d/d set up are fire grab which has an insane miss rate and a long cooldown, the other is earthquake which forces you to stand still and cast for 2 seconds or so.

…tell me more, why don’t you…

Perhaps, when comparing a GC thief to an ele, you should consider the ele playing something relatively close to, if not, a GC as well.

I play an ele too, and I can tell you the following as a fact: Eles are “OP”. They are the most ridiculously unbalanced class in the game. However, all the general public sees is qq stealth qq culling qq OP thief cause stealth qq I can’t dodge, and I shouldn’t have to when fighting a thief.

I can’t put into words how hard I face palm when I see people failing to dodge obvious hits and skills. This includes PvE. I mean COME THE KITTEN ON, PvE??? SERIOUSLY?!? No wonder they fail at PvP, when they can’t even dodge in PvE.

Conquest.7629:

lots of movement is better than just being invisible with no way of being targeted?

mist form is on a long cooldown, arcane shield is also on a long cooldown i cant think of any other immune/blocks an ele has unless traited to gain arcane shield at 25% health also. A glass cannon ele will get 1 or 2 shotted by any thief, warrior, mesmer even with protection up most of the time.

a thief can down most players almost instantly then escape free with stealth which it has more than 1 way of casting. Compare that to ride the lightning being an eles escape mechanism which most use to enter battle and then has a 20 second cooldown. Stealth can be used much more frequently to engage and disengage battles.

A GC thief “will get 1 or 2 shotted by any” GC ele, warrior, mesmer, and especially so considering they don’t have access to protection or block.

Eles have the best mobility in the ENTIRE game.

I think you should stop arguing about this subject because you’re clearly talking out of your kitten.

Conquest.7629:

Kurow.6973:

Conquest.7629:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

lordhelmos.7623:

The goal of the idea is to balance out the ability of thieves to enter a fight at no risk. Right now because there are no mounts for chasing, escapes are very powerful. Stealth is the most powerful escape because it essentially provides a get out of jail free card at any time for escaping an encounter.

The objective is to create a mechanism that adds risk to an encounter. The idea adds a mechanism for forcing a thief to stay in a fight instead of being able to vanish without a trace and reset the fight at will and with high frequency.

While non-crit and chilled ideas are great ideas, they still don’t fix the problem of no fight commitment that thieves are entitled to

While thieves should not be easily trapped in every fight, there should be a stealth counter mechanisms that increase the degree of difficulty in fleeing an encounter.

The problem with the idea is that burning is plentiful, easy to apply, and easy to maintain.

It might be better to add an illumination buff to only certain burning abilities that applies a 2-3 second debuff on thieves and mesmers that prevents them from stealthing.

Why should a class with 10k base hp and medium armor be forced to commit to fights, especially seeing as how their sustained damage can’t hope to match that of Warriors or other high durability professions?

And why burning – a condition that is easily inflicted by literally every non-Thief profession? Hell, anyone can equip Forge(?) runes and get a free, long-duration burn against the Thief as soon as they drop to 50% health, along with a free 10 second Protection to make the Thief’s forced commitment even more useless.

Your idea has no merit. Thieves are SUPPOSED to have commitment issues. Give them enough base health to survive a sustained encounter and then talk to me about forcing commitment.

elementalists have the same base health and LOWER armour than a thief not to mention any non bunker ele is more squishy than a thief and deals far far lower damage. Yet people and in particular thieves that i come across complain about eles having an escape mechanism.

You must be playing your ele wrong then.

You don’t need big huge numbers flying by your screen to do more damage.

an ele wont kill another player in 1 or 2 shots like a thief in similar gear would, big numbers appearing instantly DO more damage, the 2 biggest hitting skills in a d/d set up are fire grab which has an insane miss rate and a long cooldown, the other is earthquake which forces you to stand still and cast for 2 seconds or so.

Have you ever seen a burst D/D ele? You can get downed in less time than a backstab rotation. Look it up.

Kurow.6973:

Conquest.7629:

an ele wont kill another player in 1 or 2 shots like a thief in similar gear would, big numbers appearing instantly DO more damage, the 2 biggest hitting skills in a d/d set up are fire grab which has an insane miss rate and a long cooldown, the other is earthquake which forces you to stand still and cast for 2 seconds or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy6xpGGubCk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_MmGVabQVw

…tell me more, why don’t you…

Perhaps, when comparing a GC thief to an ele, you should consider the ele playing something relatively close to, if not, a GC as well.

I play an ele too, and I can tell you the following as a fact: Eles are “OP”. They are the most ridiculously unbalanced class in the game. However, all the general public sees is qq stealth qq culling qq OP thief cause stealth qq I can’t dodge, and I shouldn’t have to when fighting a thief.

I can’t put into words how hard I face palm when I see people failing to dodge obvious hits and skills. This includes PvE. I mean COME THE KITTEN ON, PvE??? SERIOUSLY?!? No wonder they fail at PvP, when they can’t even dodge in PvE.

Conquest.7629:

lots of movement is better than just being invisible with no way of being targeted?

mist form is on a long cooldown, arcane shield is also on a long cooldown i cant think of any other immune/blocks an ele has unless traited to gain arcane shield at 25% health also. A glass cannon ele will get 1 or 2 shotted by any thief, warrior, mesmer even with protection up most of the time.

a thief can down most players almost instantly then escape free with stealth which it has more than 1 way of casting. Compare that to ride the lightning being an eles escape mechanism which most use to enter battle and then has a 20 second cooldown. Stealth can be used much more frequently to engage and disengage battles.

A GC thief “will get 1 or 2 shotted by any” GC ele, warrior, mesmer, and especially so considering they don’t have access to protection or block.

Eles have the best mobility in the ENTIRE game.

I think you should stop arguing about this subject because you’re clearly talking out of your kitten.

first video is from last july and long before nerfs, fire grab has at best a 20% hit rate due to it being buggy and thats if the target is standing still and in front of you. The second video is impressive burst although its d/f so he has no RTL to escape with and he has burnt all his utilities so anyone outside the initial burst can pick up a free bag before the ele stomps the player he downed. A thief in a similar situation after burning all utilities would have downed a player also and most likely with quickness stomped the player as its so much faster, yet the thief would be able to use their cure to stealth and escape if he wished or C/D another player then flee.

I came to this thread initially because in a post it was mentioned that thieves have low survivability which is why they require stealth as an escape mechanism, yet eles with low survivability (unless bunker but thieves can go that route also if they wish) get non stop complaints about having an escape mechanism in RTL. I still havent heard a genuine reason why thieves should have stealth available on all builds as a way to escape yet eles having RTL available only with offhand dagger builds is a problem?

Thieves have stealth available in all builds because it’s a utility? Same reason Ele’s have mist form available in all builds… RTL is like C&D. Everyone complains about it but not every Ele can use it. It’s just that the Thief has a shortbow or has two choices for offhand, pistol or dagger. Dagger gets C&D. Even if a Thief uses a shortbow there is still a 50/50 chace they have access to C&D on swap. Ele have way more choices, not that they they are all good.

Trying to compare Ele and Thief staying power if you take away stealth is a joke. If you really think Ele survivability = Thief when there is no stealth then…

Especially a GC thief which is what you seem to be complaining about. They have zero survivability. Haste stomps only work against bads. You can tell when someone is hasted and use #2 to interrupt.

I think that Rangers should be given an ability or a pet than can reveal stealth. It would make them more “ranger-y” and make them a much more valuable addition to WvW than they are now.

lordhelmos.7623:

Thoughts on adding an effect to the burning condition that does not allow burning foes to enter stealth while on fire.

Can we also make it so that bleeding doesn’t allow warriors and guardians to use any defensive skills?

Doesn’t that sound ridiculous too?

Conquest.7629:

first video is from last july and long before nerfs, fire grab has at best a 20% hit rate due to it being buggy and thats if the target is standing still and in front of you. The second video is impressive burst although its d/f so he has no RTL to escape with and he has burnt all his utilities so anyone outside the initial burst can pick up a free bag before the ele stomps the player he downed. A thief in a similar situation after burning all utilities would have downed a player also and most likely with quickness stomped the player as its so much faster, yet the thief would be able to use their cure to stealth and escape if he wished or C/D another player then flee.

I came to this thread initially because in a post it was mentioned that thieves have low survivability which is why they require stealth as an escape mechanism, yet eles with low survivability (unless bunker but thieves can go that route also if they wish) get non stop complaints about having an escape mechanism in RTL. I still havent heard a genuine reason why thieves should have stealth available on all builds as a way to escape yet eles having RTL available only with offhand dagger builds is a problem?

So all “1-2 shotting” thieves have quickness, cure and w/e else you think they do. I think you should stop…just…stop.

Just like eles, thieves can’t have ALL skills and utilities at once. They CANNOT have amazing survivability along with “1-2 shotting people”. The fact that the first video is from July doesn’t change anything, and is completely irrelevant to the second video (which displays something MUCH worse, AoE spike).

If you did not know (which appears to be the case) him being INVULNERABLE for the stomp prevents any kind of interruption.

Thieves have no way of acquiring BLOCK, PROTECTION, or any of the other goodies that actually counts when it comes to survivability. Their survivability relies purely on AVOIDING damage, NOT reducing it…thus, stealth is a necessity.

Please, kindly show yourself out of this thread if you want to continue talking nonsense about ele and thief (because you’re clearly playing your ele wrong).

PS: For the record, I rarely, if ever, miss my Fire Grab. Perhaps I’m doing something right.

skinnyb.5920:

I think that Rangers should be given an ability or a pet than can reveal stealth. It would make them more “ranger-y” and make them a much more valuable addition to WvW than they are now.

“Unless one would blind the pet”. I wouldn’t actually mind this, it’ll make rangers be loved more.

All I see are favoritism.

Conquest.7629:

elementalists have the same base health and LOWER armour than a thief not to mention any non bunker ele is more squishy than a thief and deals far far lower damage. Yet people and in particular thieves that i come across complain about eles having an escape mechanism.

Actual armour type means very little in GW2. Any profession can have 3k armour with the right gear/traits. Right now I’m running a thief build with. 21k health, 2.6k Armour and 1.2k Condition damage. My guardian doesn’t even have that much health/armour with full magi’s gear.

skinnyb.5920:

I think that Rangers should be given an ability or a pet than can reveal stealth. It would make them more “ranger-y” and make them a much more valuable addition to WvW than they are now.

How about thieves reveal stealth since they are matters of stealth? /sarcasm

In all seriousness though, adding rock paper scissors to the game wouldn’t be constructive.

I see a lot of threads with stealth counters, like “damage should end stealth” (no, really, that’s one of the circulating suggestions) or condition A should end it or condition B should reduce it.

You know what the best counter for stealth is? Damage. Stealth =/= invulnerability. I’ve been downed before by warriors swinging their giant greatsword dick around. Especially in Shadow Refuge, which puts up a giant floating house icon for those people that missed the circle on the ground.

Other types of stealth give us 3 or 4 seconds of invisibility. That’s not a very long time, especially since that’s all we have to get away from someone who’s actually searching for us. 3 or 4 seconds is not a long enough duration of time that it really deserves a reveal mechanism that we will be able to do absolutely nothing about.

The Thief niche is infiltration and subterfuge. We don’t have the massive aoe or condition damage that eles can explode with, and we don’t have the survivability of warriors. If stealth is nerfed to the point of uselessness, then what exactly would be the point of Thieves?

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Your idea has no merit. Thieves are SUPPOSED to have commitment issues. Give them enough base health to survive a sustained encounter and then talk to me about forcing commitment.

You are absolutely right. I want to tattoo your tasteful response on the forehead of the guy who started this thread…So whenever he looks into a mirror to feel shame. Shaaaaaame! ATM stealth spamming is the only thing not kitten laughable at this profession and yet ppl want more and more taken out of it. In a recent sPVP match some scholar, forgot the actual profession, had the audacity to say quote “they should delete this noob rogue”. Anet should take turns nerfing every class just for the lulz of it, kinda like a sick social experiment: popcorn and watch the rage!

Guide to countering stealth:

Auto-attack in the area the thief has stealthed. Several seconds later you will see a thief on the ground with a big red arrow above his head. Approach this arrow and press the “F” key.

Sorry if that was too complicated.