Guild Wars 2

With the new changes it looks like there will be some ridiculously OP thief builds (in current game terms anyway, we don’t know how they will stack up to what how the game will be after the update.) One thing I noticed is that Critical Strikes is now by far the worst traitline as all they really did is reverse some adept and master traits, got rid of Crit Haste and Executioner and gave it an unbuffed Ricochet of all things. I originally thought 66006 thief would still have a place but considering critical strikes will no longer give you the huge offensive stats it used to I don’t think it will be worth taking at all unless it’s for some cheesy pvt hidden killer build.

60606
This is by far the best build that thieves will have available in my opinion as it takes the strengths of current meta Panic Strike PvP build 60206 and classic WvW build 20606 and combines them.
Deadly Arts
http://i.imgur.com/AAKfqHT.jpg

Mug – Standard
The Needle trap on heal is interesting but overall I would say this is still the better choice. The Dagger damage is also a joke, it only applies to poisoned foes and 5% damage is irrelevant in comparison to a 2k heal 2k damage instant cast.

Panic Strike – Standard

Executioner/Improvisation
This is the crazy part, you now have the choice between Executioner (huge 20% dmg buff) or Improvisation. Improvisation received a HUGE buff in that Hide in Shadows is now a deception and Withdraw is now a a trick. What this means is that upon hitting steal while using Improvisation you have a 20% chance to immediately recharge your heal skill.

Shadow Arts
http://i.imgur.com/h89VO99.jpg

Shadow’s Embrace
Still the best option here.

Shadow Protector/Hidden Thief
Honestly I find both of these to be pretty mediocre. But with blind on stealth and initiative regen moving up to GM you don’t really have a better option. I would probably opt for the regen trait as it would synergize extremely well with Shadow Rejuv. Also hidden thief has never been a great trait in my opinion.

Resilience of Shadows
So yeah. That old thing that gave you might in stealth is gone, but it has been replaced by this. Take 50% less damage in stealth do I need to explain how OP that is?

Shadow Rejuvenation
I don’t think this trait really needs an introduction. It’s very very OP and it has received quite the buff in that it will also regenerate initiative which is nice.

Trickery
http://i.imgur.com/mw4pbze.jpg

Thrill of the Crime/Flanking Strikes
I’d probably still take Thrill considering the negative effects of haste.

Bountiful Theft
This slot got some interesting additions but this is overall still the best option here imo.
The 3 second cd reduction off withdraw is very nice and a viable option but still not as good as bountiful imo. The torment on interrupt will make for some pretty aids condi potential.

Lead Attacks/Sleight of Hand.
So one thing that immediately jumped out at me about this line is that the 5th slot Lead Attacks will now give an additional 15% cd reduction to steal which is very nice.

60066
In my opinion S/D acro thief got the short end of the stick here. It will be getting all the benefits of the new and improved deadly arts line however I don’t think it’s as huge of a buff to s/d to this build as it is to the other considering every class is getting buffed. I love the S/D acro playstyle and this is probably what I will be playing so I will be leaving this here.

http://i.imgur.com/38S946i.jpg

Feline Grace
This is a pretty huge nerf. We no longer get the 15 endurance return on dodge, and instead we get 2 seconds of vigor every 3 seconds. The vigor is pretty strong but considering the fact we had almost 100% vigor uptime from withdraw and steal this nerf hurts.

Guarded Initiation
This seems to be decently strong as it gives us access to 50% resistance uptime as long as our health is full. The fact our health has to be 100% makes me think this trait will end up being useless. Depending on how strong resistance really is, anet should consider changing this trait to proc at above 75% health threshold for it to be viable.

Swindler’s Equilibrium
Yeah so this trait looks like it will be very fun to play around with. Basically the only reason I’m looking forward to playing S/D acro after the update. Upon successfully dodging an attack while wielding a sword, you reduce your steal recharge by 1 second.

Hard to Catch
This is Swindler’s main competition and probably the better trait overall, considering the Feline Grace nerf the endurance refill is extremely valuable. It’s also a 100% reliable stunbreak as it no longer ports you which in my opinion is a plus.

Don’t Stop
I feel like this was anet’s sad attempt at making thieves qq less about rangers. A passive projectile dodge every 5 seconds while under the effects of swiftness. Honestly this trait seems like it will be more helpful vs dp thieves than anything as it will avoid headshot/shadowshot/black powder.

I dont really play acro, but sucks to see it getting that huge nerf.. thanks for posting this.

I think spvp d/p will run 6/0/0/6/6. Hard to Catch is really good now. I could see people running pain – hard to catch – don’t stop.

I think guarded’s condition (100% to proc) is too harsh to be too effective, but I could be wrong.

Being able to get pain response w/ executioner and sleight is nice esp for hide in shadow d/p thieves. That’s pretty good condi clear.

oEnvy.3064:

Feline Grace
This is a pretty huge nerf. We no longer get the 15 endurance return on dodge, and instead we get 2 seconds of vigor every 3 seconds. The vigor is pretty strong but considering the fact we had almost 100% vigor uptime from withdraw and steal this nerf hurts.

You didn’t mention the other boost, that Vigour with Acrobatics now restores 20% more endurance than before. That means that with the 100% Vigour uptime you mention, things start looking much more like the old Feline Grace. It just adds some counterplay to it, in that opponents can strip your Vigour to mitigate the dodging a bit.

oEnvy.3064:

Resilience of Shadows
So yeah. That old thing that gave you might in stealth is gone, but it has been replaced by this. Take 50% less damage in stealth do I need to explain how OP that is?

This needs to be changed back to being a grandmaster major trait or nerf the %. Currently running it in WvW havoc/roaming and its just way better than shadow rejuv. It also applies to allies and stacks with protection(lol?) making it VERY strong in organized groups.
Having SA thieves with resilience + rejuv is almost game breaking and if these changes go through, expect the QQ posts about SA thieves to go up.

Xiahou Mao.9701:

oEnvy.3064:

Feline Grace
This is a pretty huge nerf. We no longer get the 15 endurance return on dodge, and instead we get 2 seconds of vigor every 3 seconds. The vigor is pretty strong but considering the fact we had almost 100% vigor uptime from withdraw and steal this nerf hurts.

You didn’t mention the other boost, that Vigour with Acrobatics now restores 20% more endurance than before. That means that with the 100% Vigour uptime you mention, things start looking much more like the old Feline Grace. It just adds some counterplay to it, in that opponents can strip your Vigour to mitigate the dodging a bit.

Honestly the 20% vigor buff is pretty good. But considering we already had 100% vigor uptime before this change and that we’re losing out on 10% damage I still consider it a nerf.

eatkimchi.7316:

oEnvy.3064:

Resilience of Shadows
So yeah. That old thing that gave you might in stealth is gone, but it has been replaced by this. Take 50% less damage in stealth do I need to explain how OP that is?

This needs to be changed back to being a grandmaster major trait or nerf the %. Currently running it in WvW havoc/roaming and its just way better than shadow rejuv. It also applies to allies and stacks with protection(lol?) making it VERY strong in organized groups.
Having SA thieves with resilience + rejuv is almost game breaking and if these changes go through, expect the QQ posts about SA thieves to go up.

100% this. Honestly I think the whole idea of 60606 thieves to be OP. Considering you don’t lose offensive stats anymore, critical strikes is useless. So thieves in pvp won’t really get punished for running SA anymore. Also yeah, Shadow Rejuv + Resilience is 100% broken. SA was already OP.

2/0/6/0/6 ftw ????

A few things to note about the stream:

- Dagger Training is wrong. They said that the 5% damage is already added as base to the dagger skills, and that the actual trait gives dagger attacks a chance to apply Poison (which apparently stacks, same as Burning?).

- They are heavily considering removing the Haste element from Flanking Strikes and just giving the Quickness boon.

- Don’t Stop is wrong too. They said that they were still messing with the trait’s function and that it may become something like “evade the next attack when you get Swiftness” or something like that. We’ll have to see what they come up with.

Not looking forward to the acro changes. While some of the new traits seem alright, feline grace WAS acro imo. The new acro traitline will definetly be weaker than the one we have right now but the (OP?) buffs to DA might make up for it. Oh well, at least we’ll have the new 60606 panic strike build to fall back on. As it stands right now, this is the build that will be played on every weapon set. Looking forward to infinite stealth camp -.-

Auesis.7301:

A few things to note about the stream:

- Dagger Training is wrong. They said that the 5% damage is already added as base to the dagger skills, and that the actual trait gives dagger attacks a chance to apply Poison.

- They are heavily considering removing the Haste element from Flanking Strikes and just giving the Quickness boon.

- Don’t Stop is wrong too. They said that they were still messing with the trait’s function and that it may become something like “evade the next attack when you get Swiftness” or something like that. We’ll have to see what they come up with.

That trait sounds useless then. Considering dagger auto already gives poison lol.

Pretty much, but then again, as they kept trying to drill in to our heads, all this stuff is in flux and so subject to change. Some of this HAS to be nerfed before release.

“Lead Attacks will now give an additional 15% cd reduction to steal”
Hm, before it was 30% from the traitline and 20% from “sleight of hands”, now 15% in that traitline and still 20% from the trait. Nerfed.

The dagger possibility to inflict more poision on AA-cain… Not sure if serious. We already have poison on the third attack and poison from steal. Not worth it imo.

Removing the Haste-part? Why not on the regular Utility, too?

Don´t stop seems to be interesting. Dodging rapid fire and some arrows between the frames gonna be evaded, too. Have to try out what is better, Quick pockets or Don´t stop.
“evade the next attack when you get Swiftness” – maybe-change – What if I already had swiftness? Or does it mean ALWAYS when getting swiftness, like on every dodge? :P

Acro master-traits will be difficult to say right now what seems to be best. being immune to conditions for 5 sec can make a difference. But I honestly like hard to catch more. Swindlers Equilibrium will be tested ^^

What I´m really concerned of are the removal of the 10% from fluid strikes and the lack of boon duration the traitline was given before.

S/D acro
A lot of efficiency comes from that Boon duration. Overall a nerf to the dodge ability imo at the moment. I was running S/D with pack since a long time ago, swapping between pack and strength runes a lot and without that much boon duration and power of inertia removed I think pack will get better in that point.

Coronit.9432:

“Lead Attacks will now give an additional 15% cd reduction to steal”
Hm, before it was 30% from the traitline and 20% from “sleight of hands”, now 15% in that traitline and still 20% from the trait. Nerfed.

The dagger possibility to inflict more poision on AA-cain… Not sure if serious. We already have poison on the third attack and poison from steal. Not worth it imo.

Removing the Haste-part? Why not on the regular Utility, too?

Don´t stop seems to be interesting. Dodging rapid fire and some arrows between the frames gonna be evaded, too. Have to try out what is better, Quick pockets or Don´t stop.
“evade the next attack when you get Swiftness” – maybe-change – What if I already had swiftness? Or does it mean ALWAYS when getting swiftness, like on every dodge? :P

Acro master-traits will be difficult to say right now what seems to be best. being immune to conditions for 5 sec can make a difference. But I honestly like hard to catch more. Swindlers Equilibrium will be tested ^^

What I´m really concerned of are the removal of the 10% from fluid strikes and the lack of boon duration the traitline was given before.

S/D acro
A lot of efficiency comes from that Boon duration. Overall a nerf to the dodge ability imo at the moment. I was running S/D with pack since a long time ago, swapping between pack and strength runes a lot and without that much boon duration and power of inertia removed I think pack will get better in that point.

Wow I forgot about the stats from trickery yeah wow that nerf sucks.

Bear in mind that it has been said that all profession mechanics get 15% reduction as a default now. If you spec in to Trickery you will get back to the original 30% + 20% from SoH.

Not completely. You wont have that useless 300 condition damage anymore ^-^
They want to compensate for the stats-loss, but I´m completely lost how I will get that boon duration back. Putting in the Doubloons can´t be the answer…

And to withdraw being a trick now and the trick-trait. Wth? Bountifull theft is definitly better to use.

Gonna try out 60066 with S/D, but can it compete with something like 60606 D/P? Damage-wise?
Are the 10% damage in Improvisation a mistake? Looks like one to me ^^
Btw, small panicstrike nerf…
You now need to get condition-duration from somewhere to reach the same duration —> condition duration in DA removed, too.

@Auesis
if you look closely you will se that 15% at every last traitline from every class (exception is ranger). made into minor traits. So kind of every proffession mechanic got nerfed in that way xD

Time to craft some Dire armor?

Currently an Acrobatics thief gets ~+100% more dodges than a non-Acro thief, between Feline Grace and the improved vigor uptime. Post-change, it looks like Acro is going to provide around +50% more dodges; that is, the endurance regen from stacking all the traits has roughly been cut in half.

On top of that the line has lost Fluid Strikes (-10% damage) and Power of Inertia (bunch of might stacks, enabled Strength runes).

The current iteration of Acrobatics is trash. There’s little question that you swap back to Deadly/Trickery/(Critstrikes or the new line) on S/D if it goes live as-is.

Vurse.9873:

Time to craft some Dire armor?

Yup
3 stacks of torment on interrupt no icd, spam headshot on people and they die.
It’s like pre nerf perplex.

Ensign.2189:

Currently an Acrobatics thief gets ~+100% more dodges than a non-Acro thief, between Feline Grace and the improved vigor uptime. Post-change, it looks like Acro is going to provide around +50% more dodges; that is, the endurance regen from stacking all the traits has roughly been cut in half.

On top of that the line has lost Fluid Strikes (-10% damage) and Power of Inertia (bunch of might stacks, enabled Strength runes).

The current iteration of Acrobatics is trash. There’s little question that you swap back to Deadly/Trickery/(Critstrikes or the new line) on S/D if it goes live as-is.

Yeah 60606 D/P is definitely going to be the dominant build. S/D acro is going to be strictly a fun build with the steal recharge trait.

Coronit.9432:

@Auesis
if you look closely you will se that 15% at every last traitline from every class (exception is ranger). made into minor traits. So kind of every proffession mechanic got nerfed in that way xD

“Each profession’s attributes will be updated to have half of their functionality be part of a specialization and half of their functionality will be a baseline for that profession. For example, elementalists now have a base attunement recharge of 10 seconds, which is reduced to 8.7 seconds when the arcane specialization is equipped.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-one-a-primer/

From this, we can deduce that Steal will be 29.75s, most likely just rounded to 30s without Trickery (15% reduction). Another 15% reduction, followed by another 20% reduction from SoH, gets us down to 20.2-20.4, so probably 20.25 or 20.5s.

This was actually a buff.

EDIT: Did the math wrong, did a reduction instead of recharge rate (which is what Trickery does). So it would be ((35/1.15)/1.15) * 0.8 (SoH is an actual reduction of 20% opposed to recharge rate), putting Steal at 21.17s, so probably up to 21.25s, which is still a 1/4s buff compared to now. The point is the same, we’re not losing anything.

oEnvy.3064:

Ensign.2189:

Currently an Acrobatics thief gets ~+100% more dodges than a non-Acro thief, between Feline Grace and the improved vigor uptime. Post-change, it looks like Acro is going to provide around +50% more dodges; that is, the endurance regen from stacking all the traits has roughly been cut in half.

On top of that the line has lost Fluid Strikes (-10% damage) and Power of Inertia (bunch of might stacks, enabled Strength runes).

The current iteration of Acrobatics is trash. There’s little question that you swap back to Deadly/Trickery/(Critstrikes or the new line) on S/D if it goes live as-is.

Yeah 60606 D/P is definitely going to be the dominant build. S/D acro is going to be strictly a fun build with the steal recharge trait.

Swapping back to DA? Why should you swap? With the same distribution as before (20066) you will have 60066. I don´t like critical strikes-traitline so far right now. Best thing got changed to DA. Using SA instead of acro is a possibility though. But not one I like. (played S/D SA long time ago)
You took into account the +20% Effectiveness from the minor trait? Does somebody know if its 20% duration or endurance recharges 20% faster than normal. if you look into the vigor from the traits you see 120% Endurance regeneration. Acrobatic

And don´t forget the new hard to catch which is awesome imo. Maybe changing signet of infiltration to signet of agility again. A lot of dodges and the stunbreak from infil-signet comes from hard to catch.

Auesis.7301:

Coronit.9432:

@Auesis
if you look closely you will se that 15% at every last traitline from every class (exception is ranger). made into minor traits. So kind of every proffession mechanic got nerfed in that way xD

“Each profession’s attributes will be updated to have half of their functionality be part of a specialization and half of their functionality will be a baseline for that profession. For example, elementalists now have a base attunement recharge of 10 seconds, which is reduced to 8.7 seconds when the arcane specialization is equipped.”

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/specializations-part-one-a-primer/

From this, we can deduce that Steal will be 29.75s, most likely just rounded to 30s without Trickery (15% reduction). Another 15% reduction, followed by another 20% reduction from SoH, gets us down to 20.2-20.4, so probably 20.25 or 20.5s.

This was actually a buff.

Sounds extremely weird to me. We will see. Thanks for bringing that up though. Now the trait to reduce steal-cd for every successful dodge sound better instead of just a try to compensate.

But in that case you get buffs (proffession mechanic cd´s) when using a specific traitline. So will be there some buffs when using other lines, too?

Coronit.9432:

oEnvy.3064:

Ensign.2189:

Currently an Acrobatics thief gets ~+100% more dodges than a non-Acro thief, between Feline Grace and the improved vigor uptime. Post-change, it looks like Acro is going to provide around +50% more dodges; that is, the endurance regen from stacking all the traits has roughly been cut in half.

On top of that the line has lost Fluid Strikes (-10% damage) and Power of Inertia (bunch of might stacks, enabled Strength runes).

The current iteration of Acrobatics is trash. There’s little question that you swap back to Deadly/Trickery/(Critstrikes or the new line) on S/D if it goes live as-is.

Yeah 60606 D/P is definitely going to be the dominant build. S/D acro is going to be strictly a fun build with the steal recharge trait.

Swapping back to DA? Why should you swap? With the same distribution as before (20066) you will have 60066. I don´t like critical strikes-traitline so far right now. Best thing got changed to DA. Using SA instead of acro is a possibility though. But not one I like. (played S/D SA long time ago)
You took into account the +20% Effectiveness from the minor trait? Does somebody know if its 20% duration or endurance recharges 20% faster than normal. if you look into the vigor from the traits you see 120% Endurance regeneration. Acrobatic

And don´t forget the new hard to catch which is awesome imo. Maybe changing signet of infiltration to signet of agility again. A lot of dodges and the stunbreak from infil-signet comes from hard to catch.

60066 will still be a viable build but I was just looking at it from a pvp standpoint. Honestly the buffs to acro were lackluster which came with crippling nerfs. Like the loss of 10% damage and feline grace. I will still play it but no matter how you look at it the 60606 d/p build will be far better as 60206 panic strike already overshadowed s/d acro.

While I’m sure that the 5% damage trait has been made baseline, I realized that the other Terrestrial thief weapons all have at least 1 trait, but shortbow does not. I’m wondering if this could somehow be added into one of the existing specializations. An interesting trait, like increased projectile velocity or a 200-300 range increase that would make a Thief want to pick away from common traits.

I don’t think that the nerf to feline grace is that bad. It now effects every evade on the thief but now you must actually evade an attack. Secondly that 2 seconds of vigor translates to an extra 10%. And with a window that small, it’ll be near pointless to steal.

The +poison damage though was kind of needed because nobody uses it beyond weakening heals. This way it’ll become a good tool to damage as well as debilitate, given that thieves will be applying it more often. I think they want poison to be thief’s signature condition.

Its nice they are thinking about the functionality of Steal. 2 uses of the stolen items AND a chance to recharge my heal? kitten yeah.

What really hit home (aside from the upheaval of the worst trait in the game) was Jon peters saying “Just wait until we get to your profession. If you are complaining about thief, you obviously don’t play one.” Now I do not know if Jon repeated that or he actually meant it but those words coming from a staff member’s mouth is enough to make my day.

Coronit.9432:

Swapping back to DA? Why should you swap? With the same distribution as before (20066) you will have 60066.

Right, which is markedly inferior to the listed 66006 and 60606 lines. Shadow Arts is very strong (needs a couple clear nerfs, but should remain strong even after those); Crit Strikes is a bit undertuned (current version gets a ton of power from the precision + ferocity stats); and Acrobatics really doesn’t offer much.

It’s hyperbole, for sure, but if I had to choose between Bountiful Theft and the entire Acrobatics trait line, I’d have to think about it.

Coronit.9432:

You took into account the +20% Effectiveness from the minor trait? Does somebody know if its 20% duration or endurance recharges 20% faster than normal.

It looks like it’s +20% faster endurance regen – so while under the effects of Vigor, you regenerate 11 endurance per second instead of the usual 10.

I don’t think people understand how powerful the current Feline Grace is. In the context of a high vigor uptime S/D thief, Feline Grace is the equivalent of a +85% endurance regen trait – in addition to its synergy with Signet of Agility. It’s quite honestly a wildly overpowered trait. Trouble is, everything else in Acrobatics is filler, and the best of the rest, Fluid Strikes, is being pulled as well.

Coronit.9432:

And don´t forget the new hard to catch which is awesome imo.

I’ve played enough warrior with Last Stand to not get too excited. There’s a lot of inconsequential CC out there, microstuns and fears that you just kind of shrug at but still eat your cooldown. It’s a perfectly reasonable trait in an otherwise strong line, but if it’s the strongest trait in a line you have some serious problems.

oEnvy.3064:

eatkimchi.7316:

oEnvy.3064:

Resilience of Shadows
So yeah. That old thing that gave you might in stealth is gone, but it has been replaced by this. Take 50% less damage in stealth do I need to explain how OP that is?

This needs to be changed back to being a grandmaster major trait or nerf the %. Currently running it in WvW havoc/roaming and its just way better than shadow rejuv. It also applies to allies and stacks with protection(lol?) making it VERY strong in organized groups.
Having SA thieves with resilience + rejuv is almost game breaking and if these changes go through, expect the QQ posts about SA thieves to go up.

100% this. Honestly I think the whole idea of 60606 thieves to be OP. Considering you don’t lose offensive stats anymore, critical strikes is useless. So thieves in pvp won’t really get punished for running SA anymore. Also yeah, Shadow Rejuv + Resilience is 100% broken. SA was already OP.

Since you can go 60066 thief acro…Here’s an idea since they somewhat nerfed endurance regen on dodge…You can actually use rune of the adventure instead of the standard strength or pack runes. It’s actually a power/condi rune as well. And you use signet of agility anyways and fury from steal. Your crit rate will still be fine, no need for pack rune fury as much.

Every time you heal, you get 100% endurance regen and also…Don’t forget improv has a chance to recharge withdraw. I think that will be the new meta, rune of adventure panic acro thief.