A certain post by a developer has prompted huge backlash by the thief community, however there has been absolutely zero communication with Anet and the community following this statement. A huge patch and content released is scheduled for two days from now, and multiple balance changes are going to take place. Without any official statement from Anet, one can only speculation what the changes will be
What are your predictions? What will get the nerfs if any? What will get the buffs? What would you like to see?
Note: This is not for discussion or argument about how OP/not OP certain elements of the thief are. This is simply your predictions and whether you welcome them or not.
i’m guessing it will be minor changes. a small decrease to the overall damage to the CnD, mug, backstab combo, most likely revolving around the CnD and mug parts, and some minor increases to other weapons’ abilities. possibly further range on the shortbow, or faster flight time for the cluster bomb. longer range on pistols, or a faster firing rate.
people will still complain, people will still quietly counter thieves. life will go on.
I bet my money on backstab comkittenf+shortbow nerf, some traits are gonna be reworked (bettered, i believe), gunslinger (p/p) will be buffed, i hope sword gets some love (looking at you flanking strike), prolly some degree of nerfing to the death blossom bleeding (i hope so,its so lame it gives me chills),i expect some more defense OUTSIDE of stealth (protection, stability),and,obviously,i expect a huge QQ 5 minutes after the patch goes live, with ppl complaining the nerf wasnt near enough…
Im smiling already!!
I bet my money on backstab comkittenf+shortbow nerf, some traits are gonna be reworked (bettered, i believe), gunslinger (p/p) will be buffed, i hope sword gets some love (looking at you flanking strike), prolly some degree of nerfing to the death blossom bleeding (i hope so,its so lame it gives me chills),i expect some more defense OUTSIDE of stealth (protection, stability),and,obviously,i expect a huge QQ 5 minutes after the patch goes live, with ppl complaining the nerf wasnt near enough…
Im smiling already!!
Add in trap buffs that won’t really do anything, and that’s what I feel will happen in a nutshell.
Oh yeah, forgot those, they are so useless, (except maybe ambush for venom builds) we even forget we have those “utilities”…
Maybe ground targeting, round and enlargement, and not visible.
My honest predictions, considering how they’ve dealt with nerfs in the past, I expect Backstab to get a damage reduction. Possibly Mug and Cloak and Dagger as well. I don’t expect them to buff D/D at all; it will probably be shelved after this patch in favor of whatever they buff. This is how games go.
As for what I think should happen, Mug and Cloak and Dagger (mainly Mug) need a damage reduction. The combination of those two generally equates to more damage than Backstab, and Backstab has too many requirements in order to deal its main damage to actually get a damage reduction.
I bet my money on backstab comkittenf+shortbow nerf, some traits are gonna be reworked (bettered, i believe), gunslinger (p/p) will be buffed, i hope sword gets some love (looking at you flanking strike), prolly some degree of nerfing to the death blossom bleeding (i hope so,its so lame it gives me chills),i expect some more defense OUTSIDE of stealth (protection, stability),and,obviously,i expect a huge QQ 5 minutes after the patch goes live, with ppl complaining the nerf wasnt near enough…
Im smiling already!!
I stopped reading at the Death Blossom part, if you think it is overpowered and not underpowered, you never played DB condition. 3 stacks of bleeding for 5 init? Unfortunately, check. Evade that lasts less then 1/3 the animation, unfortunately, check. Every class having multiple ways to cleanse all stacks with 1 button, check.
I expect the end of the thief… If this isn’t the patch that’ll do it, a following one will.
It’ll be a class where only the very skilled can barely struggle to maintain a decent kill/death ratio. Due to insistent reductions in burst and stealth and the classes overall lack of self defence, with the exception of running away.
We’ll maintain our status as the best at retreating, but only just and only if a class with movement skills and ranged snares hasn’t brought them that time.
Thief is definitely getting changed, however based on the recent small reveal of the supposedly 5 page long patch notes, rangers and engis are going to see the biggest changes. We’ll just see it plays out…
Hopefully, a buff to P/P. I just recently made a Thief, to see what counters what first handed. Love most of the weapons, but P/P makes my Thief look real nice (although, gameplay wise, that’s another story)
Sorry for the typos….
I’m usually typing on my phone
I bet my money on backstab comkittenf+shortbow nerf, some traits are gonna be reworked (bettered, i believe), gunslinger (p/p) will be buffed, i hope sword gets some love (looking at you flanking strike), prolly some degree of nerfing to the death blossom bleeding (i hope so,its so lame it gives me chills),i expect some more defense OUTSIDE of stealth (protection, stability),and,obviously,i expect a huge QQ 5 minutes after the patch goes live, with ppl complaining the nerf wasnt near enough…
Im smiling already!!
I stopped reading at the Death Blossom part, if you think it is overpowered and not underpowered, you never played DB condition. 3 stacks of bleeding for 5 init? Unfortunately, check. Evade that lasts less then 1/3 the animation, unfortunately, check. Every class having multiple ways to cleanse all stacks with 1 button, check.
Look at this note: “Note: This is not for discussion or argument about how OP/not OP certain elements of the thief are. This is simply your predictions and whether you welcome them or not.”
Im gonna respect the Op and not discuss this.
Good night.
They’ll probably nerf the Thief so hard it’ll be impossible to play. People seem to listen to the skill-less and ‘balance’ around those who don’t know what they speak of. Seriously half the people on this forum don’t even know of the revealed debuff…
Yup, enjoy the last days of the thief, the class will be rendered useless after this patch, might even be worse at killing people than rangers are now.
Frankly they should focus on the culling issue before ANYTHING is changed with the Thief. Most of the problem is others can’t see us when we are revealed. Honestly our damage seems fine to me…. 27k hp warrior suffers a whopping 6k backstab!! Yeah guess who wins that one.
is C&D really do that much damage ? ive never seen it do damage enough to nerf its current damage at all. and its not just backstab players now are QQing about our stealths those should be nerfed and P/D builds should be nerfed too apparently if thats the case just remove thief from the game.
is C&D really do that much damage ? ive never seen it do damage enough to nerf its current damage at all. and its not just backstab players now are QQing about our stealths those should be nerfed and P/D builds should be nerfed too apparently if thats the case just remove thief from the game.
Heard QQ about DD condition, DD backstab, SP pistol whip (still), P/D condition…. about the only thing I don’t hear complaints about is sword/dagger. It’s utterly ridiculous, and it’s because people don’t understand the fundamental mechanics of a thief. I read earlier somewhat saying shortbow 5 (the shadowstep shot) is ‘spammable’. No… it really isn’t.
if some 1 told u that infiltrators arrow is spammable they need to quit the game lmao ^^ if im correct it cost about 5 or 6. initiative. thats a butt load x.x ur good for atleast 2 or 3 steps if u regain some initiative back
I bet my money on backstab comkittenf+shortbow nerf, some traits are gonna be reworked (bettered, i believe), gunslinger (p/p) will be buffed, i hope sword gets some love (looking at you flanking strike), prolly some degree of nerfing to the death blossom bleeding (i hope so,its so lame it gives me chills),i expect some more defense OUTSIDE of stealth (protection, stability),and,obviously,i expect a huge QQ 5 minutes after the patch goes live, with ppl complaining the nerf wasnt near enough…
Im smiling already!!
I stopped reading at the Death Blossom part, if you think it is overpowered and not underpowered, you never played DB condition. 3 stacks of bleeding for 5 init? Unfortunately, check. Evade that lasts less then 1/3 the animation, unfortunately, check. Every class having multiple ways to cleanse all stacks with 1 button, check.
You forgot the half-second delay between the time you press the button and when the character actually jumps and starts the evading, making it almost impossible to evade a hit reactively with it.
If the older so called “balance changes” are any indication (pistol whip, basilisk, assassin’s signet) then builds based around backstab will probably not be viable anymore. I doubt there will be any buffs, considering the general opinion about our professions and that’s all that matters unfortunately.
I predict soloing in PvE for my thief will be even harder… Seriously though I feel as if ANet listens just to PvP players complaints and then nerfs thieves not taking into regard its PvE capabilities :/. Yes (for now) I can solo in PvE although certain parts are giving me much trouble as opposed to my ranger friend.
As for Death Blossom I got myself sigil of corruption which stacks condition damage (25 stacks) and combined with calltrops does decent damage… But without any buffs to condition damage, DBs bleed damage is not really something to gasp at. Also using it on high ledges and narrow bridges can lead to some very humurous moments. I’m not running a glass cannon build and I still get in trouble with multiple mobs (I mix my playstyle with d/d+sb and s/p+sb) and it gets tiresome sometimes running in circles spamming cluster bomb while waiting for thieves guild to recharge again. I will wait though and see what changes ANet brings and will judge later, but for PvE players thief is becoming harder and harder to play on solo, which is a shame.
with the “impending doom” of balance adjustments, I’m always reminded that if people like to think they are good at playing their class, shouldn’t they want to rise to additional challenge of a balance adjustment.
I’m hoping to be able to experiment with more weapon sets and find them viable so here is to the pro’s of patches not the gloom that too many seem to see in everything.
Kyús – 80 – Guardian// All Classes Level 80
Hand of Blood [HoB]
EU – Aurora Glade
- Fix to Steal so you can’t land CnD/Steal then Backstab landing all 3 damage
- Slight reduction in Backstab dmg (10-15%)
- Overall reduction in max crit dmg % for all classes (diminishing returns)
- Some minor buffs to p/p, sword.
- Some minor adjustments to short bow (some minor buff, some minor nerf)
- Mesmers nerfed to the ground (I wish!)
What is slight about 10-15%? That way the BS will end up exactly the same as PW did (and you will meet the condition builds 50% more, which would sux hard, because the condition bad design – one condition for all characters….)
- Fix to Steal so you can’t land CnD/Steal then Backstab landing all 3 damage Bad Idea.Then Burst thieves will trait Hidden thief and Go with D/P with a combo like this
Steal-BS-Black Powder-Slash-Slash-HS-BS-Rinse and Repeat
- Slight reduction in Backstab dmg (10-15%) Bad Idea.BS itself isn’t guilty for anything
- Overall reduction in max crit dmg % for all classes (diminishing returns) That makes sence
- Some minor buffs to p/p, sword. That makes sence
- Some minor adjustments to short bow (some minor buff, some minor nerf) Cluster Bomb maybe will be hitted a little
- Mesmers nerfed to the ground (I wish!) Only Portal and Moa.Otherwise are OK
Ss Ninja- Rank 50 Asura Condition Thief (The Bulgarians [BG])
My Ringtones on Zedge >>>C l i c k <<<
It’s going to hit hard. They have a vendetta against thieves now. They’re even banning people from the forum just for defending thieves against all of the QQ. Got a temp ban for accumulation of points yesterday, haven’t received a single point in almost two weeks. Expect thieves to be completely useless by the time they’re done. Get out while you can, preferably out of the game completely.
Are thiefs op? No, it just due to someone saying hey look at what this can do, infact the questionable the backstab build which has become famous has a burst of 45 seconds whereas many other classes can continuously use there bursts, is it fair that I can burst every 45 seconds as a thief? Well apparently it is not. Is it fine for a warrior to smack down an ele with 15k damage in spvp from 1500 range with a much shorter cooldown? Yes, yes it is…
The problem with the thief is not that it is overpowered, even the cnd>Mug>backstab build is not overpowered, the problem with the thief is its popularity and thanks to it the thief is getting nerfed.
Attachments:
Founder of [CBA]/Former vE
No.2 Warrior NA/Irl behind Mr Kitten.7359
Are thiefs op? No, it just due to someone saying hey look at what this can do, infact the questionable the backstab build which has become famous has a burst of 45 seconds whereas many other classes can continuously use there bursts, is it fair that I can burst every 45 seconds as a thief? Well apparently it is not. Is it fine for a warrior to smack down an ele with 15k damage in spvp from 1500 range with a much shorter cooldown? Yes, yes it is…
The problem with the thief is not that it is overpowered, even the cnd>Mug>backstab build is not overpowered, the problem with the thief is its popularity and thanks to it the thief is getting nerfed.
This warrior had used their elite (fury, might), has 25 stacks of some sigil buff, I’m assuming bloodlust, for an additional 250 power. (how the hell they got 25 stacks of this in spvp is beyond me…) and they have 20k hp, which is lowish for a warrior, meaning total glass cannon build.
So, yeah they set up the “perfect shot” here. Compounded by the fact that the target was likely pretty soft, mesmer running low armor. On top of this, killshot has a 1 and 3/4 second cast time, at which time the warrior drops to one knee as you see the barrel of the gun glow. shrug I guess if you shoot someone wearing a wet towel for armor from a mile away, with a glass cannon build, and 25 stacks of +10 power… yah… Problem?
My main hope would be some culling fixes. Because it’s super-stupid to be invisible to an opponent for 2-3 seconds after my own client says I’m out of stealth. This prevents you from being able to actually enjoy the game mechanics the way they’re supposed to work, you know?
I expect the end of the thief… If this isn’t the patch that’ll do it, a following one will.
It’ll be a class where only the very skilled can barely struggle to maintain a decent kill/death ratio. Due to insistent reductions in burst and stealth and the classes overall lack of self defence, with the exception of running away.
We’ll maintain our status as the best at retreating, but only just and only if a class with movement skills and ranged snares hasn’t brought them that time.
Even if Backstab, mug, and C&D damage are nerfed into the ground the thief class will be just fine. You know how I know? Because I and many others haven’t been using/abusing them and I do absolutely fine. The thief has plenty of self defense between evade attacks(HS/DB) tons of dodge(endurance back on dodge/increased dodge regen), blinds, and a bunch of passives that can stealth+shadowstep you on disable, stealth if your health gets too low, etc.
As long as the other super burst builds receive a similar nerf we will still be a strong class. At least then the thieves who have no idea what the class is capable of outside the backstab build can start learning what the class has to offer.
Are thiefs op? No, it just due to someone saying hey look at what this can do, infact the questionable the backstab build which has become famous has a burst of 45 seconds whereas many other classes can continuously use there bursts, is it fair that I can burst every 45 seconds as a thief? Well apparently it is not. Is it fine for a warrior to smack down an ele with 15k damage in spvp from 1500 range with a much shorter cooldown? Yes, yes it is…
The problem with the thief is not that it is overpowered, even the cnd>Mug>backstab build is not overpowered, the problem with the thief is its popularity and thanks to it the thief is getting nerfed.
15k hit in sPvP… now that really is impressive.
It’s one thing to score that against some green wearing character while you have ~100%+ critical damage. But in sPvP everyone has even gear and you can’t get over like 50% critical damage.
I don’t think I’ve ever managed more than ~4k from a single hit on my Thief in sPvP.
Are thiefs op? No, it just due to someone saying hey look at what this can do, infact the questionable the backstab build which has become famous has a burst of 45 seconds whereas many other classes can continuously use there bursts, is it fair that I can burst every 45 seconds as a thief? Well apparently it is not. Is it fine for a warrior to smack down an ele with 15k damage in spvp from 1500 range with a much shorter cooldown? Yes, yes it is…
The problem with the thief is not that it is overpowered, even the cnd>Mug>backstab build is not overpowered, the problem with the thief is its popularity and thanks to it the thief is getting nerfed.
the things that pass for logic on this forum are always amazing.
do you honestly think the thief class would be so popular if it wasn’t so powerful?
personally i hope the patch moves the class towards a more balanced position. low risk + high reward is obviously broken which is why the class is so popular.
edit – also comparisons to warriors are always so genuine because warriors can turn invisible to avoid retaliation and teleport across the map when things are not going their way.
the things that pass for logic on this forum are always amazing.
do you honestly think the thief class would be so popular if it wasn’t so powerful?
personally i hope the patch moves the class towards a more balanced position. low risk + high reward is obviously broken which is why the class is so popular.
edit – also comparisons to warriors are always so genuine because warriors can turn invisible to avoid retaliation and teleport across the map when things are not going their way.
In TF2, you’ll see a large number of spies, and snipers on a 12 man team when you go into random pubs. Usually 3 or more of each.
In reality, a well put together team of 12 players would have one sniper in most situations, and have one spy who goes on and off.
People rarely care about what’s really effective. They play what they feel is “cool”, or “leet”.
the things that pass for logic on this forum are always amazing.
do you honestly think the thief class would be so popular if it wasn’t so powerful?
personally i hope the patch moves the class towards a more balanced position. low risk + high reward is obviously broken which is why the class is so popular.
edit – also comparisons to warriors are always so genuine because warriors can turn invisible to avoid retaliation and teleport across the map when things are not going their way.
In TF2, you’ll see a large number of spies, and snipers on a 12 man team when you go into random pubs. Usually 3 or more of each.
In reality, a well put together team of 12 players would have one sniper in most situations, and have one spy who goes on and off.
People rarely care about what’s really effective. They play what they feel is “cool”, or “leet”.
in competitive games people always gravitate towards the most powerful classes available.
its really just simple logic. people want to win. the powerful class increases their odds.
If they truly did, we’d be seeing more guardians and mesmers than we are seeing right now.
As it stands, you’ll almost never see mesmers using portal in sPvP.
Also, define “competitive game”
the thief class is a low risk, high reward class. it has some of the highest burst and condition damage available with some of the best ways to avoid retaliation or just avoid combat altogether if things are not going their way. to compare it to mesmers or guardians is just being ridiculous.
though when you ask me to define competitive game i have to assume you are just trolling.
the thief class is a low risk, high reward class. it has some of the highest burst and condition damage available with some of the best ways to avoid retaliation or just avoid combat altogether if things are not going their way. to compare it to mesmers or guardians is just being ridiculous.
though when you ask me to define competitive game i have to assume you are just trolling.
Well considering TF2 has a competitive base that eclipses Guild Wars 2, I don’t see how you could call this competitive, but not TF2. It’s also especially strange because there are notably less thieves in tPvP than sPvP, and more guardians, and mesmers.
Also, consider the goal of sPvP, and how effective a thief is at achieving those goals.
How useful is a burst damage class compared to a class that can hold a position for long periods of time, or allow their team to get from one location to another extremely quickly?
Are thiefs op? No, it just due to someone saying hey look at what this can do, infact the questionable the backstab build which has become famous has a burst of 45 seconds whereas many other classes can continuously use there bursts, is it fair that I can burst every 45 seconds as a thief? Well apparently it is not. Is it fine for a warrior to smack down an ele with 15k damage in spvp from 1500 range with a much shorter cooldown? Yes, yes it is…
The problem with the thief is not that it is overpowered, even the cnd>Mug>backstab build is not overpowered, the problem with the thief is its popularity and thanks to it the thief is getting nerfed.
This warrior had used their elite (fury, might), has 25 stacks of some sigil buff, I’m assuming bloodlust, for an additional 250 power. (how the hell they got 25 stacks of this in spvp is beyond me…) and they have 20k hp, which is lowish for a warrior, meaning total glass cannon build.
So, yeah they set up the “perfect shot” here. Compounded by the fact that the target was likely pretty soft, mesmer running low armor. On top of this, killshot has a 1 and 3/4 second cast time, at which time the warrior drops to one knee as you see the barrel of the gun glow. shrug I guess if you shoot someone wearing a wet towel for armor from a mile away, with a glass cannon build, and 25 stacks of +10 power… yah… Problem?
So wait… he got 15k damage at 1,500 range… in sPvP…and you’re okay with that? What about the Thief blowing way more cool-downs just to deal less damage in with Backstab at Melee range and less than half as often? But noooo, that’s not okay. God forbid that Thief had set up the “perfect shot” as well. The problem people have is not the damage, not the recharge, not the stealth, its just the feeling of dying in a more pitiful, up-close, personal encounter that really irks them. Hypocritical garbage. Give us a rifle at just 1200 range with a skill that cancels stealth, is “obviously telegraphed” (because at 1,500 range you’re totally paying attention.. oh wait.. you’re not.. just like you don’t pay attention against the Thief), roots us, and deals the same damage as kill shot while consuming all of our remaining initiative and see if we still get QQ’d to the ground. You all know we would. I’m tired of this pathetic, hypocritical community.
PS. Stacking Sigils grant 5 stacks a kill in sPvP. That’s how.
Communication is the greatest gift the world of today can offer us.
So why do we choose to ignore it?
If they truly did, we’d be seeing more guardians and mesmers than we are seeing right now.
As it stands, you’ll almost never see mesmers using portal in sPvP.
Also, define “competitive game”
the thief class is a low risk, high reward class. it has some of the highest burst and condition damage available with some of the best ways to avoid retaliation or just avoid combat altogether if things are not going their way. to compare it to mesmers or guardians is just being ridiculous.
though when you ask me to define competitive game i have to assume you are just trolling.
You pretty much lose all credibility here. I shouldn’t even have to explain to you why, but I think I will.
Guardians and Mesmers are dominating in tPvP, with Guardians being worse than Mesmers. Mesmers have more utility than any other class. Not only that, but they also have 2 stealth utilities (both with rather short CDs), one stealth elite, and a stealth on offhand torch 4.
Seriously, Mesmers are quite possibly the most OP class in the game. But they’re overlooked for some reason. They can pretty much do everything except bunker, but they don’t even need to. Not only that, but they can do a ton of things other classes can’t. They have short CDs coupled with some of the best effects.
Thinking thief is OP in comparison to Guardian or Mesmer is just asinine.
Are thiefs op? No, it just due to someone saying hey look at what this can do, infact the questionable the backstab build which has become famous has a burst of 45 seconds whereas many other classes can continuously use there bursts, is it fair that I can burst every 45 seconds as a thief? Well apparently it is not. Is it fine for a warrior to smack down an ele with 15k damage in spvp from 1500 range with a much shorter cooldown? Yes, yes it is…
The problem with the thief is not that it is overpowered, even the cnd>Mug>backstab build is not overpowered, the problem with the thief is its popularity and thanks to it the thief is getting nerfed.
This warrior had used their elite (fury, might), has 25 stacks of some sigil buff, I’m assuming bloodlust, for an additional 250 power. (how the hell they got 25 stacks of this in spvp is beyond me…) and they have 20k hp, which is lowish for a warrior, meaning total glass cannon build.
So, yeah they set up the “perfect shot” here. Compounded by the fact that the target was likely pretty soft, mesmer running low armor. On top of this, killshot has a 1 and 3/4 second cast time, at which time the warrior drops to one knee as you see the barrel of the gun glow. shrug I guess if you shoot someone wearing a wet towel for armor from a mile away, with a glass cannon build, and 25 stacks of +10 power… yah… Problem?
So wait… he got 15k damage at 1,500 range… in sPvP…and you’re okay with that? What about the Thief blowing way more cool-downs just to deal less damage in with Backstab at Melee range and less than half as often? But noooo, that’s not okay. God forbid that Thief had set up the “perfect shot” as well. The problem people have is not the damage, not the recharge, not the stealth, its just the feeling of dying in a more pitiful, up-close, personal encounter that really irks them. Hypocritical garbage. Give us a rifle at just 1200 range with a skill that cancels stealth, is “obviously telegraphed” (because at 1,500 range you’re totally paying attention.. oh wait.. you’re not.. just like you don’t pay attention against the Thief), roots us, and deals the same damage as kill shot while consuming all of our remaining initiative and see if we still get QQ’d to the ground. You all know we would. I’m tired of this pathetic, hypocritical community.
PS. Stacking Sigils grant 5 stacks a kill in sPvP. That’s how.
Ah, well I did not know that about the stacking sigil, thank you. And I’m not okay with it, frankly I think there should be a firm cap on single hit damage. Maybe 10k, or 8k? For the record I had a thief backstab me for something like 8.4k in WvW and my warrior is not exactly “soft”.
Crits in this game hit too hard. I would like to see something implemented like the “resilience” stat on pvp gear in world of warcraft. Special gear made with pvp in mind that reduces your chance to be crit, and critical damage. Lowering burst across the board draws out games longer…but in GW i feel like something like that would give an even more unfair advantage to the very strong bunker builds. But I feel like this screenshot of a warrior with every buff possible using a stage 3 adrenaline finisher is not a fair comparison to a thief’s burst which is, lets face it, alot more consistent to pull off. And what’s the diference between someone blasting you from range when you cant see them, and being right behind you and you cant see them? Either way you are getting ganked from “out of nowhere”
That way the BS will end up exactly the same as PW did (and you will meet the condition builds 50% more, which would sux hard, because the condition bad design – one condition for all characters….)