Tired of seeing P/P in groups
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hello! i do not play thief. or guardian. when i am in a dungeon and i see one without p/p or staff and have no other way to do ranged attacks i will promptly kick them.
so any thief who agrees with op know what people think about you when you do a dungeon.
many people know doing dungeons with ranged can be ez mode on many parts. no one expects you to range 100% of the time, but when you need to do it you better have it or GOODBYE.
[Sekz] Officer erigais AKA Weeaboo Hunter
just to clear something out, dps means damage over time, so chaining unload all day long from safety does more dps than a hit n’ run burst build (against bosses)
been using p/p since beta and im usually the group’s biggest dps
I love it when people use abbreviations without knowing what they mean:
DPS = Damage per Second (used when describing your damage during an event or during a part of an event)
DoT = Damage over Time (used to describe bleed like affects typically)He’s right, you’re just referring to different things.
DPS = Damage Per Second (Damage/Seconds) = Damage Over a Timeframe. It is a metric that specifically details damage over a timeframe (1 second), or more likely an average over a large number of seconds, as opposed to total per-fight damage or something like Damage Per Minute. It is a comparative damage metric that has nothing to do with attack type, Conditions do DPS, power-based damage does DPS, etc.
DoT = Damage Over Time = Refers to abilities that deal a set amount of damage over a timeframe, usually without additional action after being applied. This is an attack type, not a metric. In GW2, this most specifically refers to conditions. You don’t say “I did 1,000 DOT” you say “My DOT does 100 DPS over 10 seconds”
The definition of the former is extremely important because people often just use DPS as a catch-all term for damage output, which it is not. To make a reasonable damage comparison, you have to first establish a timeframe within which DPS is being measured. For a one-second timeframe, for instance, you may be able to do 20,000 DPS, but that isn’t very useful for comparison.
So Bassman was attempting to make the assertion that P/P has better DPS over an actual real-life timeframe (a couple-minute boss fight) due to higher uptime. He was (correctly) challenging the idea of DPS as a catch-all term for offensive power, implying that backstab builds, for instance, were not good DPS compared to the high-uptime DPS of P/P. He is wrong about this specific instance, P/P has bad DPS as well as poor relative burst capability, but he’s right about how DPS works.
Actually, he was wrong in his comparison. If a backstab hits for 9 000, and I can only do this every 9 seconds (BS being the only damage I do, the other 8 seconds I’m running around doing no damage), and an unload does 3 000 damage every 3 seconds, they both (burst and sustained) do the same dps over the course of a fight. Bassman inplied that to do burst damage was worse then sustained, when this simply isn’t the case all the time.
DPS doesn’t mean you have to have close to 100% uptime on a boss. If you choose to hit the boss once for 20 000, then go afk, your DPS on the boss for a minute long fight would be 333DPS. I agree many people would probably argue that your dps was 20 000, and if that’s what you thought I was saying I’m sorry for not clearing things up. Yes, you would never say “I did 1000 DOT”, but then I never mention how much my DoT abilities do. I would say I have 3 DoTs or something like that, since you can’t guarantee (in this game expecially) that your DoT will go it’s full duration…but this is getting off topic.
just to clear something out, dps means damage over time, so chaining unload all day long from safety does more dps than a hit n’ run burst build (against bosses)
I’m assuming you are refering to D/D BS burst. I’ve never seen unload come anywhere close to doing the damage D/D does, be it burst or sustained. Simple matter is, atm, BS burst is so high that if you were competing vs a P/P thief, you could BS then sit down for a few then BS then sit down for a few and still beat unload spam. I love the way P/P looks, but as it stands right now it’s inferior to pretty much every other weapon combination we have (SB is better IMO if only for the fact that you can burst combo finish every few seconds).
To the OP, if you don’t like seeing P/P thieves in your group, leave when you see one. This game has no way of knowing how much damage each person is going. For all you know, every other person in your group could be critting for 200 damage because they are set up as a tank. No way of you knowing that they have put all their points/gear towards healing power, toughness, vitality. The one aspect where I think P/P can shine atm is its use of projectile finishers (if you have 1 or more mesmers in your group, your group can stack confusion up to 25 almost constantly if they know what they are doing).
Sorry for long post…I’ll retreat back to my cave now.
Tulisin was right about what i was trying to say, but this thread has one fact wrong thus rendering the whole ecuation irrelevant, my Unloads are not worth 3,000 dmg, at least on fractals 10+ bosses im dealing 8,000+
so yeah, im dealing more dps than a d/d thief (ON BOSSES)
Tulisin was right about what i was trying to say, but this thread has one fact wrong thus rendering the whole ecuation irrelevant, my Unloads are not worth 3,000 dmg, at least on fractals 10+ bosses im dealing 8,000+
so yeah, im dealing more dps than a d/d thief (ON BOSSES)
Those numbers were just an example. I D/D most fractal 10+ bosses and hit for 6k minimum on my BS, and that’s not including the auto attacks that hit for about 1k each, nor the CnD that hits for 2-3k minimum (so in your <2sec unload I’ve hit for 9-10k or more, and that’s not as GC gear/spec). Please don’t make grandiose statements like “I’m dealing more dps than a d/d thief”. From what I’ve noticed (and many many others on these forums) P/P damage is sub par. I’m not saying you shouldn’t use it, if that’s what you want to play with, all the more power to ya. But don’t delude yourself by saying P/P does more damage then D/D (on most fights…I recognize not all fights can be done in melee for thieves, and for those fight I prefer the combo finishing SB).
Yeah. I’ll bite…even though I think this is considered trolling.
I don’t see ANYONE running a p/p in fractals. Only once. Ever. EVER.
I think P/P definately needs work, but do not tell people how to play. The day I am cornered into one weapons loadout is the day I toss my digital copy of GW2 out the window.
K?
Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.
it is all about gain/effort ratio.
P/P has bit more trait synergy, bit more utility, higher attack rate coupled with high crit = more procs and more stable ini regen, finishers.
And still not being tied to one spot.
Just curious, how do people do all these DPS measurements?
Tulisin was right about what i was trying to say, but this thread has one fact wrong thus rendering the whole ecuation irrelevant, my Unloads are not worth 3,000 dmg, at least on fractals 10+ bosses im dealing 8,000+
so yeah, im dealing more dps than a d/d thief (ON BOSSES)
Permanent Unload spam (very hard to attain without heavy synergy) is significantly less DPS than just using dagger auto attacks, add in the fact that daggers can actually burst beyond auto attacks and it isn’t even close unless P/P is maintaining significantly more uptime.
I think P/P definately needs work, but do not tell people how to play. The day I am cornered into one weapons loadout is the day I toss my digital copy of GW2 out the window.
K?
2nd this.
I don’t play as much as I would like, but when I do play Thief.. I do P/P.
why? simple, FUN. (D/D is my other load out though)
I play my Ranger with a Longbow instead of Shortbow. I like the LB attacks, the DPS of the SB though.. Just hoping the devs fix LB at some point.
I play my Guardian with 2H sword, and Mace/Torch. why? once again, FUN.
I play my Warrior with Rifle and Bow, not 2H Sword…
As Long as a player (me or anyone else) is not detrimental to the group, I don’t care what weapons/build you use. Of course “Detrimental” will have different definitions by just about everyone..
GW2 is not WoW. there are too many people that want GW2 to play just like WoW, you see it in their posts (this class=this build only, or you’ll be kicked)
I play the game for fun, I don’t care for speed runs in groups. I like to enjoy everything not speed through and then complain about “nothing to do”
Game has been out since end of August, I have 8 character slots (one for each class) and still not a single 80… And I’m still having fun.
“People who say it cannot be done, should not interrupt those who are doing it.”
GW2 is not WoW. there are too many people that want GW2 to play just like WoW, you see it in their posts (this class=this build only, or you’ll be kicked)
GW2 isn’t WoW, but it is a game and an MMO. Mechanically, some ways of doing things are more effective than others. You’re right that no one can force you to not have fun by choosing how you play, but by the same token, you can’t force others to accept you regardless of how you play. Some people have fun by trying to maximize group effectiveness, something that is necessarily going to require everyone to work together and utilize their tools as effectively as possible. If your play style doesn’t suit them, they can find another group mate, but it is equally important to remember that if their play style doesn’t suit yours you can find another group that does.
The only person who can ruin your fun is you, by choosing to play with people who have drastically different philosophies and goals when it comes to how they play.
STOP using P/P in group instances it SUCKS
What’s the point of making a thread for this? I could make a thread telling you to stop telling people to play for your fun rather then theirs. Just don’t group with people if you don’t like their play-style and don’t come whining here.
Thief using melee in Fractals = 20x more needing a rez = slows down group.
Thief using P/P = needing rez 1/20 as much as before, decent damage with the speed, stacking massive amounts of vulnerability on mobs, and dazing with headshot. Unload deals a massive amount of damage when you figure in 15 stacks of vulnerability.
I’d be pissed not seeing a p/p thief in fractals.
Dual pistol is nice compliment to your melee, but isn’t great as a primary. Most bosses provide for the tactic of a thief getting in melee range for a short time, burning his initiative quickly, and then falling back to heal up with pistols. The stealth pistol attack is huge. Use it with Hide in Shadows, Blinding Powder, and Shadow Refuge(steal health), and then you’re back to full health and initiative and ready to go in again.
Just curious, how do people do all these DPS measurements?
They don’t. They’re just guessing. I’m not kidding. A vast majority of DPS discussion is just guessing because big numbers. If/when you see any serious discussion over DPS it’s usually based off of killing golems in the mists (the time it takes to down them)
Just curious, how do people do all these DPS measurements?
They don’t. They’re just guessing. I’m not kidding. A vast majority of DPS discussion is just guessing because big numbers. If/when you see any serious discussion over DPS it’s usually based off of killing golems in the mists (the time it takes to down them)
Thieves also have the luxury of being able to repeat high-damage abilities without long CDs, so it is actually pretty viable to hand-clock the damage different abilities do over a given amount of time when spammed.
For a quick and dirty calculation, however, using steady weapons against golems in the mists is a good way to demonstrate that, for instance, one skill does substantially more DPS than another.
the problem with all things done is that there is no target dummy that you can realy see long time frame dps. Crit builds especially need to be tested over a 3-5min time frame to get average dps to take into account for long chains of crits (or lack of them) on the major skills.
Crit builds especially need to be tested over a 3-5min time frame to get average dps to take into account for long chains of crits (or lack of them) on the major skills.
Given that most linear boosts will affect skills predictably, once you hammer out the differences in effectiveness of the base skills with steady weaponry you can extrapolate how good they’ll be relative to eachother with gear.
But, yeah, it is better for comparison than for raw numbers.
Just curious, how do people do all these DPS measurements?
They don’t. They’re just guessing. I’m not kidding. A vast majority of DPS discussion is just guessing because big numbers. If/when you see any serious discussion over DPS it’s usually based off of killing golems in the mists (the time it takes to down them)
I generally go by the golem kill rate. It’s nice and repeatable, but the gearing/stat options you have are not the same as what you have for PvE. The main differences are that Critical Damage via a pure Berserker setup will be FAR higher in PvE-land and Power with a Rampager setup will also be much higher.
This makes any Mists testing somewhat inaccurate for PvE. It’s quick and free, though. No need to spend gold or even level up to do it.
And, back on topic, P/P maximum potential DPS is indeed much lower than all the melee options. You just can’t compete DPS-wise using P/P if the melee’er can maintain 100% contact with the target. And that’s the critical IF that can easily push P/P far ahead of melee on a difficult fight.
Since when is Guardian Staff bad?
It’s basically a full heal for them with a 2k heal and 12 stacks of might for everybody around them
Since when is Guardian Staff bad?
It’s basically a full heal for them with a 2k heal and 12 stacks of might for everybody around them
Well, the topic was “DPS”. Most of guardian’s weapons are fairly similar in DPS. If this was dodge-ball, staff would be the fat kid huddled sobbing in the corner. IIRC, it’s about half the DPS of the next best weapon. There are a few situations where staff shines, but it’s mostly an out-of-combat tool and when you get “stuck” with it in combat it’s because you forgot to swap it out or got ambushed.
P/P is great single target DPS, very good on bosses.
Also, epic against the elemental/robot because you can plow through his defiant and rupt his heal.
P/P is great single target DPS, very good on bosses.
Also, epic against the elemental/robot because you can plow through his defiant and rupt his heal.
That’s the thing – it isn’t great, it’s a stretch to even call it average although it can situationally reach that.
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