Guild Wars 2

I am SO tired of thieves being overpowered. Did you know they have a trait that lets them regenerate hp while in stealth? Well I’m sick of it. As a thief if you’re not skilled enough to not get hit by conditions, melee and ranged attacks then you should suffer for it. If you can’t survive without having heals then you need to L2P and I believe giving them stealth regen is just rewarding that kind of gameplay.

Another issue I have is that alot of thieves who go 30 into shadow arts have access to traits that remove conditions and cause blinds. If all they had was shadow step for removal and say smokescreen for blinds it would require much more skillful gameplay and also would be more rewarding, requiring them to take almost 0 hits or conditions. Without the regen, condi strip, and blinds in shadow arts they have plenty of other GREAT traits that get overlooked like Power Shots and Patience or they could go into Acrobatics and take awesome traits like Hard to Catch or Assassin’s retreat.

I run a Hammer- mace/shield Warrior with Perplexity runes and when I fight thieves with shadow arts they just strip my confusion stacks with well times shadow steps and stealths and then I die. When I DO kill them it takes WAY longer then it should.

Anyway my main points I’m trying to get across here is that Shadow Arts needs some major nerfs and the thief class needs to require more skill like the Warrior class. Ty for your time.

I actually thought this was a serious post until the last paragraph.

no need to troll, thieves are easily one of the most noob friendly classes next to warrior and necro.

When you mentioned “Great Trait” and “Hard to catch” in the same sentence, everything crumbled apart. Nice attempt though

Actually had me there for a second.

hihey.1075:

When you mentioned “Great Trait” and “Hard to catch” in the same sentence, everything crumbled apart. Nice attempt though

I skimmed through it and saw warrior. Then I thought, “this is a well written troll”.

Same effect.

Haha. Until you mentioned thief needing to require more skill than the warrior class I thought you were serious, and I used to main a warrior – my legendary’s been on him for a year.

I feel very strongly about this (lol)

I’ve been playing thief for more than a year now (mostly spvp) and I recently started roaming in WvW. A shadow arts thief doesn’t kill me regardless of the class I’m running, but it is really fricking annoying having one follow you across the map, stealthing away when you try to fight, all the while looking for a buddy or two to take you down with. So yeah, I agree, shadow arts is way too forgiving and needs a nerf when it comes to WvW, but for sPvP, it’s a really lackluster trait line and could do with a revamp. Jumper’s idea of Shadow Arts trait focusing on going in and out of stealth rather than constantly staying in stealth was a pretty good suggestion imo. There’s more counterplay involved against such builds with interrupting/evading their stealths that way.

Rome.3192:

Jumper’s idea of Shadow Arts trait focusing on going in and out of stealth rather than constantly staying in stealth was a pretty good suggestion imo.

If only the toilet of the profession balance forum suggested something like this…

Instead we get kitten ideas in a polished bowl.

Rome.3192:

… Jumper’s idea of Shadow Arts trait focusing on going in and out of stealth rather than constantly staying in stealth was a pretty good suggestion imo. …

Link?

One could attach traitable boons or other rewards to Revealed, buff on entering traits and nerf stay in stealth traits.

Nah Hard to catch requires skill. You have to know if your enemy has cc on them, if not you should l2p. It’s not the trait’s fault it ports you randomly around even if you have stability and does nothing to deal with the cc as well. Swiftness OP!

8/10, almost fell for it

Rome.3192:

I’ve been playing thief for more than a year now (mostly spvp) and I recently started roaming in WvW. A shadow arts thief doesn’t kill me regardless of the class I’m running, but it is really fricking annoying having one follow you across the map, stealthing away when you try to fight, all the while looking for a buddy or two to take you down with. So yeah, I agree, shadow arts is way too forgiving and needs a nerf when it comes to WvW, but for sPvP, it’s a really lackluster trait line and could do with a revamp. Jumper’s idea of Shadow Arts trait focusing on going in and out of stealth rather than constantly staying in stealth was a pretty good suggestion imo. There’s more counterplay involved against such builds with interrupting/evading their stealths that way.

The only thieves that do that to me are D/p thieves. X/d thieves once you’re in the open they need have to fight you or start blowing defensive cds to stay stealthed. Actually yesterday I was fooling around with d/p and ended keeping stealthed for 20 mins straight. It wasn’t a duel I was just testing it(if you don’t believe me let me know and I’ll post a vid lmao).

Anyway I do like Jumper’s idea for stealth though I don’t think its op for builds besides d/p. I personally would rather ANet focus on things like making our other trait lines he more viable so that we could play things in wvw besides shadow arts. For instance they could add a skill in acro that makes you remove one condition on dodge. The main reason I don’t play lines like Acrobatics is because the sustain isn’t very good. to be healing you have to be constantly attacking and if you’re standing on a condition stack there/s not much to be done.

Skill like Warrior? :-D
You mean like the ability to faceroll everything in PVE and PVP and don’t even stop to consider what you just killed? Yeah sure needs lots of skill xDDDD

Shadow Arts isn’t required at all. D/P trickery is very viable in WvW.

You know, you shouldn’t make troll threads such as these. Some dev might actually read it and take it seriously.

:D Burnfall… I wonder if he has a random word generator that puts his posts together. Otherwise kitten that’s a lot of wasted time!

I’m all for fun jokes and trolling….but can these posts stop. They’re getting really old to see in this forum

First off guys, thief has a huge skill cap. Imo I think thief is impossible to master. This is due to the endless possibilities granted through the initiative system. As far as thief being noob friendly…..lol. Sure a brand new thief might be able to run the whole time, but you cant tell me u dont like pwning those heartseeker spammers. Shadow arts is the best and only defense a thief has in this current meta (Aoe/condi) almost to the ponit were SA: IV is mandatory in all builds. Those two just so happen to be hard counters to thieves. So I apologize for trying to survive your endless aoe and condition spamming. You say thief is op? Why aren’t they on more spvp teams? Or why aren’t there any thief commanders zerging around? Whens the last time you have taken your thief to any dungeons? I say thieves have been robbed of their talents in a desperate attempt to cure all the qq about stealth. And yet people still have indignation towards my favorite profession. To all my fellow thieves, Live long! throw a heartseeker spam or two in there just to kitten em off :P

Chicago Jack.5647:

Shadow Arts isn’t required at all. D/P trickery is very viable in WvW.

Which we all know is the easiest build to use to just gank somebody. Bonus points if you’re zerker.

gartz.7013:

I’m all for fun jokes and trolling….but can these posts stop. They’re getting really old to see in this forum

I’m with this guy… honestly lol… sure it gives a chuckle at first, but it’s getting worn out.

Also, I’m starting to wonder if Burnfall isn’t actually, simply just THE BEST at pulling these off.. think about it..

This made my night, its so utterly laughable. My favourite part was “thief class needs to require more skill like the Warrior class”

All jokes aside, I was toying around with thief to see what the weapons could do. At one point I was stealthed and I used the sword teleport and it didn’t reveal me? My mesmer can’t blink or even use portal without becoming revealed. Didn’t think to test shadow shot. This right here might be something to look into.

If you don’t hit anyone and do damage that is possible

The only way to use shadowshot to not reveal you is if you press your stow weapon keybind at the right time.

To be completely honest, the Shadow Arts line does need some pretty significant nerfs, specifically to the Shadow’s Rejuvenation trait.

IMO it should simply be removed, and Meld in Shadows should be moved up to Grandmaster-tier.

Reikou.7068:

To be completely honest, the Shadow Arts line does need some pretty significant nerfs, specifically to the Shadow’s Rejuvenation trait.

IMO it should simply be removed, and Meld in Shadows should be moved up to Grandmaster-tier.

You my good sir need to be removed from this forum, seriously.

Please think before you write. You invest 30 points to get regen (which I heard the most hardcore PVP players don’t even do) PLUS it’s not that good PLUS it already has been moved to grandmaster tier.

Swimfan.8014:

You invest 30 points to get regen (which I heard the most hardcore PVP players don’t even do)

have you ever thought about why this is the case?

Reikou.7068:

…. and Meld in Shadows should be moved up to Grandmaster-tier.

Kewl, then it can swap with Hidden Assassin, I would very much like that one down one tier. You better be careful what you wish for.

MADAIR.1948:

I am SO tired of thieves being overpowered. Did you know they have a trait that lets them regenerate hp while in stealth?

Anyway my main points I’m trying to get across here is that Shadow Arts needs some major nerfs and the thief class needs to require more skill like the Warrior class. Ty for your time.

OMG! Thieves can heal while in stealth!!

Did you know warriors can regenerate hp all the time?

Couldn’t take this post seriously after the first sentence. As far as the last paragraph, I completely agree with you that there is an issue with skill here. Just not in the way you think.

Reikou.7068:

Swimfan.8014:

You invest 30 points to get regen (which I heard the most hardcore PVP players don’t even do)

have you ever thought about why this is the case?

Because they take Venemous Aura? It’s a nice trait, Shadow’s Rejuvenation, especially when you do need to use that shadow refuge anyway, but the 1k HP in 10 seconds you’d see normally see aren’t build breaking or making, if Hidden Assassin was a 15 point major I’d settle for 20 points with Embrace and Cloaked.

Luto.1938:

MADAIR.1948:

I am SO tired of thieves being overpowered. Did you know they have a trait that lets them regenerate hp while in stealth?

Anyway my main points I’m trying to get across here is that Shadow Arts needs some major nerfs and the thief class needs to require more skill like the Warrior class. Ty for your time.

OMG! Thieves can heal while in stealth!!

Did you know warriors can regenerate hp all the time?

Couldn’t take this post seriously after the first sentence. As far as the last paragraph, I completely agree with you that there is an issue with skill here. Just not in the way you think.

This is partly why the joke threads should stop lol.

Reikou.7068:

Swimfan.8014:

You invest 30 points to get regen (which I heard the most hardcore PVP players don’t even do)

have you ever thought about why this is the case?

l2p my friend , every class has the option of going “tanky” , SA is pretty much the thief version of that , try doing group fights in WvW without that trait line and see how much hit your survivability takes.

The class is one of the squishiest and has one of the lowest Hp pool in the game but thats not enough for you is it?

I wish mods would delete these QQ threads as soon as they were posted.

I remember thieves wanting their section to be clean of all that crap being pasted in there. For all these wannabe funny yet stale threads to be posted here it would be up to them to learn the lesson first.

I see so many thieves defending shadow arts claiming it’s the thief version of being “tanky”. In every 1v1 scenario, a S/D acrobat and D/P trickery can hold its own and escape when outnumbered. Having tankiness along with massive burst and amazing condition removal along with great mobility and escapes isn’t really how a class is supposed to be. Please don’t use warriors as an example, as they are broken atm because of this very fact.
If you go berserker as a thief, you cannot expect the same tankiness a soldier’s/cleric’s guardian has. If you can hold a group of 5 people off by perma-stealthing, when you also have the ability to disengage and/or burst, there’s something wrong with that picture. I’d love to see an argument otherwise.

PS: I’m talking strictly WvW here. SA isn’t strong at all in sPvP as you can’t afford to leave your team in a 4v5 while you remain in stealth for long intervals.

Rome.3192:

I see so many thieves defending shadow arts claiming it’s the thief version of being “tanky”. In every 1v1 scenario, a S/D acrobat and D/P trickery can hold its own and escape when outnumbered. Having tankiness along with massive burst and amazing condition removal along with great mobility and escapes isn’t really how a class is supposed to be. Please don’t use warriors as an example, as they are broken atm because of this very fact.
If you go berserker as a thief, you cannot expect the same tankiness a soldier’s/cleric’s guardian has. If you can hold a group of 5 people off by perma-stealthing, when you also have the ability to disengage and/or burst, there’s something wrong with that picture. I’d love to see an argument otherwise.

PS: I’m talking strictly WvW here. SA isn’t strong at all in sPvP as you can’t afford to leave your team in a 4v5 while you remain in stealth for long intervals.

How are you going to hold off a group of 5 while “permastealthing”? What are you holding them off from? I’ll tell you what you aren’t doing. You aren’t preventing that group from capping a camp/tower/keep, because you can’t cap while stealthed.

Are you holding them off from killing you and then running away so they don’t get a bag? Maybe, but wow that’s such a problem seriously.. because you deserved that bag, obviously…

I mean do you really think one thief is going to burst down a group of 5 competent players before they can kill it? Either they’ll eventually kill you, or they’ll res the downed faster than you can stomp.

It just isn’t going to happen. I mean this isn’t some Batman kitten where you just go all kungkittenmaster while surrounded by enemies and after a full page of thwack, kapow, thud you win at life and defeat everybody.

Maybe you can slowly take down a group of 5 completely uncoordinated squishy targets, but you aren’t going to do it by “permastealthing”. It is literally impossible.

if you lose a 5 v 1 against a thief ( or any class for that matter ) then you need to uninstall as you are just a terrible player so are the 4 other people with you .

:D
Add all your nerf requests to the wish list (in signature)

“awesome traits like Hard to Catch or Assassin’s retreat”

QFT!

I have more than 1,000 hours on my Thief to support this claim…

A little background info again, so you know I’m speaking this from experience- I’ve been playing thief (and only thief) since a year and a few months. I’m rank 64 in sPvP and top 100 in both team and solo queue.
Again, I’m not saying you’re taking out these 5 players, but it is very much possible to stall a group of 5 as a perma-stealth thief. If you can’t do this, you’re likely not a very good one (or your opponents are extremely competent, but let’s be real here). Like I said, in sPvP, perma-stealthing isn’t a problem because you can’t afford to not “do anything”. In WvW though, you will have players complain about thieves being OP because here’s what happens when other classes face a group of 5 – they either get downed to get displaced back to their spawn, or they have to run and kite away the group. In case of a thief, I can hang around their group all the while stealthing, all for kittens and giggles, and leave when I decide I’ve had my fun. Maybe even take a couple caught out of position. And this is regardless of how squishy I’m built. Do you not see this as something that’s imbalanced?
Your argument that thieves are squishy/low HP, blah blah isn’t necessarily only valid for thieves. Try playing an elementalist. They suffer with the same low HP (while also having lower armor). Sure they may have some burst healing if they choose to go with healing power, but thieves do get a lot of dodging through the acrobatics trait lines and evades on weapon skills along with it. Actually, try playing a berserker elementalist or whatever stats you use on your thief and tell me if it has the same survivability to damage ratio as your thief in WvW.

Let’s say hypothetically that you’re walking down the street on the way to the corner store to buy yourself a cold pop. You’re minding your own business while whistling Skip to My Lou. All of a sudden a person materializes behind you and sucker punches you in the back of the head. As you fall to the floor, you mutter the words ‘Oh Lord Jesus it’s a fire.’

You clinch your fists, summon your inner Mike Tyson spirit animal, and pick yourself off the ground. The lil’ fella is still standing right in front of you laughing! You lunge forward and exclaim ‘FALCON PUNCH!’ only to realize the lil’ fella has disappeared, likely on the way home to to enjoy a nice plate of Tostino’s pizza rolls his mom just pulled out of the microwave.

Jazzpaws.2675:

Let’s say hypothetically that you’re walking down the street on the way to the corner store to buy yourself a cold pop. You’re minding your own business while whistling Skip to My Lou. All of a sudden a person materializes behind you and sucker punches you in the back of the head. As you fall to the floor, you mutter the words ‘Oh Lord Jesus it’s a fire.’

You clinch your fists, summon your inner Mike Tyson spirit animal, and pick yourself off the ground. The lil’ fella is still standing right in front of you laughing! You lunge forward and exclaim ‘FALCON PUNCH!’ only to realize the lil’ fella has disappeared, likely on the way home to to enjoy a nice plate of Tostino’s pizza rolls his mom just pulled out of the microwave.

Thats a sad story, but the trol’ fella sneaked up on you as he can’t be invisible longer > time you can see him approach.

He now enjoys your pizza rolls because your situational awareness was 0%

If you think you shouldn’t be punished by this, and lets assume you were right. I wouldn’t have to pay attention to anything or anyone walking trough an IED lane in a crowded Afghanistan street. As it wouldn’t be fair if I got blowned to pieces without a proper warning.

Jazzpaws.2675:

Let’s say hypothetically that you’re walking down the street on the way to the corner store to buy yourself a cold pop. You’re minding your own business while whistling Skip to My Lou. All of a sudden a person materializes behind you and sucker punches you in the back of the head. As you fall to the floor, you mutter the words ‘Oh Lord Jesus it’s a fire.’

You clinch your fists, summon your inner Mike Tyson spirit animal, and pick yourself off the ground. The lil’ fella is still standing right in front of you laughing! You lunge forward and exclaim ‘FALCON PUNCH!’ only to realize the lil’ fella has disappeared, likely on the way home to to enjoy a nice plate of Tostino’s pizza rolls his mom just pulled out of the microwave.

You misquoted. You suppose to say, “clever girl.”

Rome.3192:

In case of a thief, I can hang around their group all the while stealthing, all for kittens and giggles, and leave when I decide I’ve had my fun. Maybe even take a couple caught out of position. And this is regardless of how squishy I’m built. Do you not see this as something that’s imbalanced?

Absolutely not. Why? Because it’s by design. You shouldn’t even attempt to do such a thing on another squishy class, because you aren’t designed for it. Classes all have strengths and weaknesses.

Sure as a thief you might be able to take out some that wander too far, but you must first lure them away, and hit with a surprise attack. You must constantly regain stealth if you do so, or decide to keep poking them, but more often than not you aren’t going to accomplish much.

How many movies/cartoons/videos/TV shows/video games have you seen with some sort of ninja/assassin character appeared out of nowhere, owns someone, disappears again into the shadows, waits for the next guy to check what happened and then re-emerges to own that guy too. Overrun him however, and he will run, and hide, until he can get the hell out.

Thief just happens to have strengths inherent to the character type they portray which is what kittenes people off.

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Rome.3192:

In case of a thief, I can hang around their group all the while stealthing, all for kittens and giggles, and leave when I decide I’ve had my fun. Maybe even take a couple caught out of position. And this is regardless of how squishy I’m built. Do you not see this as something that’s imbalanced?

Absolutely not. Why? Because it’s by design.

I hate it every single time someone uses that kind of sentence.
Even if there was a class that nobody could ever lose with, and kills everything in one hit, you could use that same sentence to defend it. That argument holds no ground whatsoever.

The other thing, if the thief gets overrun, they have to run and hide?
NO!
If a player gets overrun, they die. As simple as that.
If a class can back out at any time, rather than predicting the loss ahead of time and backing out then, it becomes imbalanced.
“Checkmate”
“Nope, I activate stealth. Stinks to be you.”

magic fly.2041:

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Rome.3192:

In case of a thief, I can hang around their group all the while stealthing, all for kittens and giggles, and leave when I decide I’ve had my fun. Maybe even take a couple caught out of position. And this is regardless of how squishy I’m built. Do you not see this as something that’s imbalanced?

Absolutely not. Why? Because it’s by design.

I hate it every single time someone uses that kind of sentence.
Even if there was a class that nobody could ever lose with, and kills everything in one hit, you could use that same sentence to defend it. That argument holds no ground whatsoever.

The other thing, if the thief gets overrun, they have to run and hide?
NO!
If a player gets overrun, they die. As simple as that.
If a class can back out at any time, rather than predicting the loss ahead of time and backing out then, it becomes imbalanced.
“Checkmate”
“Nope, I activate stealth. Stinks to be you.”

Uhmm… I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but i think you forget that there is a warrior class to this game. The warrior class is extremely hard to lose with even if you are not trying or are just a horrible player. The warrior is like this by design because there needed to be a class to this game that takes next to no skill to get good with. If GW2 only created classes that took a lot of skill to master, not as many people would play the game. All through the history of MMO’s there have been classes easy to master with a lot of power at the beginning and little more. Also, there have been classes that are much harder to master but also give more reward and are much more powerful once mastery is achieved.

In this game, the warrior is that easy class and the thief (along with a few others. I don’t play many other classes) are much tougher to learn and master but provide more reward for mastering them.

Now, let’s address your comment about the assassin getting overrun and killed. In real life, in every movie and show that features assassins (as a main character), and in every game you play as a thief/assassin/ninja do they just stand still and take it when they are being overwhelmed and let themselves be killed? Or (as I more often see happen) do they fight until they realize they are not strong enough and then do whatever they can to run away and survive to fight another day.

Butch.4957:

Now, let’s address your comment about the assassin getting overrun and killed. In real life, in every movie and show that features assassins (as a main character), and in every game you play as a thief/assassin/ninja do they just stand still and take it when they are being overwhelmed and let themselves be killed? Or (as I more often see happen) do they fight until they realize they are not strong enough and then do whatever they can to run away and survive to fight another day.

Exactly.. It’s by design. It mimics the exact thing you see on movies and TV and other games. Whether or not someone likes the design is merely personal opinion.

Thief only need nerf on the skill 3 on sword, “Oh look at me 2- 3-f1-3- dodge-2-3 f1-3 dodge wtf”

ParadoX.3124:

Thief only need nerf on the skill 3 on sword, “Oh look at me 2- 3-f1-3- dodge-2-3 f1-3 dodge wtf”

S/P or S/D? Because Pistol Whip is finally in a good place and Flanking Strike has already been nerfed to the ground in initiative cost.