Guild Wars 2

I have been seeing complaints to how bad we are being nerfed, that we should be “deleted”, so on and so forth. I have a few things to respond to.

1. We are useless without stealth, will die easy, can’t do anything, ect.
Please learn to adapt. There are many builds that work without stealth(my first thought is D/D Condition or Unicorn Build) You can play any of these AND do great damage. It’s just differen’t.
And if you still want to play backstab or some other build be prepared for revealed and learn to play around it. We have many ways to move fast. Shadow Step, SB 5, Heartseekers ect. Use other forms of damage that don’t require stealth. Even backstab builds can use heartseeker and do a good amount of damage. Or help a group with basilisk venom.

2. You wont be running into them every 5 feet. Most solo players wont drop them and if they do it’s super obvious. The animation is slower than other traps, takes longer than any stealth besides shadow refuge and if someone shadow refuges you can use your stealth trap(you have them too) and counter their wasted shadow refuge.

3. Worthless in a zerg.
Well this is partially true. But if you are a squishy thief were you ever much use in a zerg? If you just run with them stealthed you aren’t helping them fight. You can’t push cause you insta die. But let’s say you get hit by a stealth trap, oh no one person in the zerg can’t do anything. Except stun people, and do large critting heartseekers.

TL:DR
Don’t complain because you can’t adapt or don’t want to become skillful enough to play while revealed.

EpiChlo.4072:

I have been seeing complaints to how bad we are being nerfed, that we should be “deleted”, so on and so forth. I have a few things to respond to.

1. We are useless without stealth, will die easy, can’t do anything, ect.
Please learn to adapt. There are many builds that work without stealth(my first thought is D/D Condition or Unicorn Build) You can play any of these AND do great damage. It’s just differen’t.
And if you still want to play backstab or some other build be prepared for revealed and learn to play around it. We have many ways to move fast. Shadow Step, SB 5, Heartseekers ect. Use other forms of damage that don’t require stealth. Even backstab builds can use heartseeker and do a good amount of damage. Or help a group with basilisk venom.

2. You wont be running into them every 5 feet. Most solo players wont drop them and if they do it’s super obvious. The animation is slower than other traps, takes longer than any stealth besides shadow refuge and if someone shadow refuges you can use your stealth trap(you have them too) and counter their wasted shadow refuge.

3. Worthless in a zerg.
Well this is partially true. But if you are a squishy thief were you ever much use in a zerg? If you just run with them stealthed you aren’t helping them fight. You can’t push cause you insta die. But let’s say you get hit by a stealth trap, oh no one person in the zerg can’t do anything. Except stun people, and do large critting heartseekers.

TL:DR
Don’t complain because you can’t adapt or don’t want to become skillful enough to play while revealed.

1. No. I don’t want to buy new gear and rebuild for the 3d or 4th time. I’ve had enough. I like stealth and shouldn’t be ostracized for it.

2. True, but they will be used in any 1v1 vs. a decent player.

3. If you hit one in a zerg you will probably die.

What game are you playing?

You really think you can come on here and tell all thieves to rebuild and regear and that everything will be OK?

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

Traps are the dumbest thing in GW2 and reason I refuse to play wvw anymore.

I agree with swinsk…
I’m glad that you enjoy playing with the unicorn build, but it’s not fair that I have to change gear and playstyle
.

swinsk.6410:

EpiChlo.4072:

I have been seeing complaints to how bad we are being nerfed, that we should be “deleted”, so on and so forth. I have a few things to respond to.

1. We are useless without stealth, will die easy, can’t do anything, ect.
Please learn to adapt. There are many builds that work without stealth(my first thought is D/D Condition or Unicorn Build) You can play any of these AND do great damage. It’s just differen’t.
And if you still want to play backstab or some other build be prepared for revealed and learn to play around it. We have many ways to move fast. Shadow Step, SB 5, Heartseekers ect. Use other forms of damage that don’t require stealth. Even backstab builds can use heartseeker and do a good amount of damage. Or help a group with basilisk venom.

2. You wont be running into them every 5 feet. Most solo players wont drop them and if they do it’s super obvious. The animation is slower than other traps, takes longer than any stealth besides shadow refuge and if someone shadow refuges you can use your stealth trap(you have them too) and counter their wasted shadow refuge.

3. Worthless in a zerg.
Well this is partially true. But if you are a squishy thief were you ever much use in a zerg? If you just run with them stealthed you aren’t helping them fight. You can’t push cause you insta die. But let’s say you get hit by a stealth trap, oh no one person in the zerg can’t do anything. Except stun people, and do large critting heartseekers.

TL:DR
Don’t complain because you can’t adapt or don’t want to become skillful enough to play while revealed.

1. No. I don’t want to buy new gear and rebuild for the 3d or 4th time. I’ve had enough. I like stealth and shouldn’t be ostracized for it.

2. True, but they will be used in any 1v1 vs. a decent player.

3. If you hit one in a zerg you will probably die.

What game are you playing?

You really think you can come on here and tell all thieves to rebuild and regear and that everything will be OK?

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

Traps are the dumbest thing in GW2 and reason I refuse to play wvw anymore.

If you don’t wan’t to rebuild, then just learn to play around it. I mentioned several ways you can survive 30 seconds. Or do damage.

If your a decent player don’t hit the trap. If they pre-laid it down you are either unlucky or it’s obvious they are baiting into it. If you see them dropping it, blow them up, or make note and don’t run there. The radius is not big.

We can argue zerg style all day, I personally don’t stealth much in a zerg and get by fine, but if you don’t like zerging because of traps then don’t zerg. It’s not the only strategy in WvW.

To you “What class I play”. I play 0/30/30/10/0 D/P Stealth Thief. Not perma stealth, but I use backstab and stealth regen a lot.

Piola.3782:

I agree with swinsk…
I’m glad that you enjoy playing with the unicorn build, but it’s not fair that I have to change gear and playstyle
.

I don’t play Unicorn, just said it was another option.

I’ll say this. The trap has only been out for 3 days! This is not enough time to fully understand the trap. People know and understand the basic use of the trap but people haven’t found out how to abuse them yet.

Last night I got 10 thief kills with 10 traps. I would take a Sentry then place the trap at his feet. If a thief is the first to come its guaranteed to work every time.

TBH the trap is kitten. But I’m not going to complain about it because its been a blast trolling thieves.

Zikory.6871:

TBH the trap is kitten. But I’m not going to complain about it because its been a blast trolling thieves.

we are being trolled !!! isn’t this against the rules ???

I just refuse to play a game with those things in it.

I know I can still kill people and even possibly get away if I hit a 30s reveal trap using shadowstep + hs spam.

That still doesn’t mean I think the traps are fun.

ANet ruined wvw for me. So I quit playing it.

sPvP for me only now. No biggie.

swinsk.6410:

I just refuse to play a game with those things in it.

I know I can still kill people and even possibly get away if I hit a 30s reveal trap using shadowstep + hs spam.

That still doesn’t mean I think the traps are fun.

ANet ruined wvw for me. So I quit playing it.

sPvP for me only now. No biggie.

I’m sorry to hear that from another thief, I have used over 30 of these of these traps and maybe only 20 of them successfully on thieves. (Mind you I baited them to these traps) I have yet to run into one my self. Right now I don’t think its game breaking but like I said above, I don’t think people have found very many ways to abuse them yet.

PS: You should take WvW out of your sig. It may be confusing for people that care.

swinsk.6410:

I just refuse to play a game with those things in it.

I know I can still kill people and even possibly get away if I hit a 30s reveal trap using shadowstep + hs spam.

That still doesn’t mean I think the traps are fun.

ANet ruined wvw for me. So I quit playing it.

sPvP for me only now. No biggie.

You could argue this with any mechanic. There are people who think Perma Stealth isn’t fun. Does this mean it should be removed. No.

I think the complaints lie in the fact that stealth isn’t what it is for everyone else. It’s our way to mitigate damage, it’s our way to do damage on par with others, its basically a part of us. There are some builds without stealth, but the majority of them utilize it to a fair extent. I almost consider it part of our class mechanic, as it even allows us a new stealth skill.

So, the trap takes away defense and attack. What’s left? nothing, and that’s the problem. Again this doesn’t apply to every build, but it is an integration to the class. We have a whole trait line dedicated to stealth buffs. What if the trap took away 50% of all other classes armor and damage? because that’s what it’s effectively doing for the thief for the most part.

Both of the traps ares stupid. Thieves can troll zergs and destroy all their supply and roamers can reveal thieves for 30s whenever they feel like it.

Dumb and dumber if you ask me.

Changed sig…

I want this trap for PvP.

But seriously, get over it please. Thieves were, and still are in a way, broken in WvW. Now if we get a couple nerfs to Ranger, and nerf the HGH Engi, Buff the Warrior, fix the Necro, then we might come close to balancing this game.

People get carried away.. the class is still perfectly viable.

I think the arrow cart changes are the real stinker here.

swinsk.6410:

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

dont thieves have nearly constant evasion if built right?

Linguistically Inept.6583:

swinsk.6410:

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

dont thieves have nearly constant evasion if built right?

Sure, just like you can play a cantrip d/d ele or a dps staff ele.

Doesn’t mean we should create a trap that affects attunement swapping because dd ele are strong roamers.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I want this trap for PvP.

But seriously, get over it please. Thieves were, and still are in a way, broken in WvW. Now if we get a couple nerfs to Ranger, and nerf the HGH Engi, Buff the Warrior, fix the Necro, then we might come close to balancing this game.

Thieves aren’t broken in wvw. They were before culling, but not since.

1v1 thieves are perfectly balanced. You can’t balance a class 1vX. Unique class mechanics are going to give each class advantages in different situations.

Staff eles and necro are amazing at holding chokes.
Thieves roaming and 1vX.
Rangers roaming or defending structures dependent on build.
Mesmer king of 1v1.
Guardians front line fighters.
Warriors siege masters.

Just because thieves kitten off the noobs the most doesn’t mean they should be punished for it.

If any class needs a nerf it’s mesmers. Spvp and wvw they are super powerful.

ScottBroChill.3254:

I think the complaints lie in the fact that stealth isn’t what it is for everyone else. It’s our way to mitigate damage, it’s our way to do damage on par with others, its basically a part of us. There are some builds without stealth, but the majority of them utilize it to a fair extent. I almost consider it part of our class mechanic, as it even allows us a new stealth skill.

So, the trap takes away defense and attack. What’s left? nothing, and that’s the problem. Again this doesn’t apply to every build, but it is an integration to the class. We have a whole trait line dedicated to stealth buffs. What if the trap took away 50% of all other classes armor and damage? because that’s what it’s effectively doing for the thief for the most part.

Stealth Negates 0 Damage. You can still be hit by it, and anyone good will interrupt or cc you before you stealth and hit you. Stealth is used to evade and confuse people. You can do it other ways though, like SB and Shadow Step. You aren’t always reliant on stealth to do those things.

Some builds do less damage without stealth, but what build actually loses a large amount of dps. Backstab loses one burst, but still has high crit heartseekers and can simply kite for 30 seconds if you really have to. D/P Perma Stealth loses the most of anything, but they don’t lose their heartseeker damage.

swinsk.6410:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I want this trap for PvP.

But seriously, get over it please. Thieves were, and still are in a way, broken in WvW. Now if we get a couple nerfs to Ranger, and nerf the HGH Engi, Buff the Warrior, fix the Necro, then we might come close to balancing this game.

Thieves aren’t broken in wvw. They were before culling, but not since.

1v1 thieves are perfectly balanced. You can’t balance a class 1vX. Unique class mechanics are going to give each class advantages in different situations.

Thieves aren’t broken, all this trap does is require more skill to not be an idiot and walk on it. Or learning to not die for 30 seconds.

EpiChlo.4072:

I have been seeing complaints to how bad we are being nerfed, that we should be “deleted”, so on and so forth. I have a few things to respond to.

1. We are useless without stealth, will die easy, can’t do anything, ect.
Please learn to adapt. There are many builds that work without stealth(my first thought is D/D Condition or Unicorn Build) You can play any of these AND do great damage. It’s just differen’t.
And if you still want to play backstab or some other build be prepared for revealed and learn to play around it. We have many ways to move fast. Shadow Step, SB 5, Heartseekers ect. Use other forms of damage that don’t require stealth. Even backstab builds can use heartseeker and do a good amount of damage. Or help a group with basilisk venom.

2. You wont be running into them every 5 feet. Most solo players wont drop them and if they do it’s super obvious. The animation is slower than other traps, takes longer than any stealth besides shadow refuge and if someone shadow refuges you can use your stealth trap(you have them too) and counter their wasted shadow refuge.

3. Worthless in a zerg.
Well this is partially true. But if you are a squishy thief were you ever much use in a zerg? If you just run with them stealthed you aren’t helping them fight. You can’t push cause you insta die. But let’s say you get hit by a stealth trap, oh no one person in the zerg can’t do anything. Except stun people, and do large critting heartseekers.

TL:DR
Don’t complain because you can’t adapt or don’t want to become skillful enough to play while revealed.

And again, it’s not about the actual cost/application effectiveness of the trap, how well it can be used on thieves, and so on – I’m not a fan of Anet introducing any effect that effectively invalidates an entire traitline, some traits outside that line, multiple utilities, and more for any class.

If the trap were meant to solely target portal/veil bombs, it could have simply pulsed a 3s reveal every second for 10s in the same radius. 30s reveal is pretty clearly targeted at thieves caught in the trap.

TL:DR – You shouldn’t wants traps targeted at shutting down a huge chunk of a classes functionality, regardless how well you can play around it. Its lazy, kittenty, kitten poor design, and it’s only a matter of time before it’s used to kitten up your class, and this game in general. Furthermore, accepting the trap as is makes you a bad, lazy player – I don’t want to beat an Ele because I dropped a trap that locked him into his current attunement for 30s, I want to beat him because I outplayed him.

I have yet to see a stealth trap. Been zerging all night. I love the new traps. Laugh my kitten off every time I throw a supply trap down in the middle of a zerg (in stealth of course) then see a troll-nado appear.

@ OP

Oh look how the tables have turned. At one point thieves were telling everyone L2P while slapping them with all kinds of advice, tips and other kitten as proven ways to counter them.

Now that everyone is telling us L2P, I say its only fair that we start kittening about how every other class’ mechanics are OP and we should get traps to counter them because we are lazy, bad players who refuse to accept the fact that we probably suck.

I mean that’s how everyone plays. Am I right?

Remove traps and the thief profession both from the game. Problem solved.

Boomstin.3460:

Remove traps and the thief profession both from the game. Problem solved.

That works too.

EpiChlo.4072:

ScottBroChill.3254:

I think the complaints lie in the fact that stealth isn’t what it is for everyone else. It’s our way to mitigate damage, it’s our way to do damage on par with others, its basically a part of us. There are some builds without stealth, but the majority of them utilize it to a fair extent. I almost consider it part of our class mechanic, as it even allows us a new stealth skill.

So, the trap takes away defense and attack. What’s left? nothing, and that’s the problem. Again this doesn’t apply to every build, but it is an integration to the class. We have a whole trait line dedicated to stealth buffs. What if the trap took away 50% of all other classes armor and damage? because that’s what it’s effectively doing for the thief for the most part.

Stealth Negates 0 Damage. You can still be hit by it, and anyone good will interrupt or cc you before you stealth and hit you. Stealth is used to evade and confuse people. You can do it other ways though, like SB and Shadow Step. You aren’t always reliant on stealth to do those things.

Some builds do less damage without stealth, but what build actually loses a large amount of dps. Backstab loses one burst, but still has high crit heartseekers and can simply kite for 30 seconds if you really have to. D/P Perma Stealth loses the most of anything, but they don’t lose their heartseeker damage.

Well stealth isn’t an active defense as armor is, but it serves the same purpose. The enemy loses targeting and tricking people is a form of defense. The regen and condition removal traits also make it defensive.

Although stealth doesn’t improve overall dps much, the stealth skill has good burst, you can trait for 100% crit, you can trait for extra damage from backstabs. So it really does increase burst potential by a lot, which is how thieves play. They aren’t meant for prolonged fights and aren’t meant to be hit. Stealth is perfect for both of those.

only those that didn’t know how to utilize stealth properly would ever come to the conclusion that thieves without stealth would be ok.

it’s like going from a damascus steel blade to a wooden dagger, and there’s no magical property that make the wooden kitten hard as steel. You can say you were just as good with it, but the people that would buy such kitten are not my kind of people.

Yup gear is pretty expensive, thankfully they added it to WvW for badges and a little amount of gold. But still, I barely play an hour a day, it takes me ages just to get 5 gold lol. Unless I run CoF, but that’s so boring and so many elitists.

swinsk.6410:

Linguistically Inept.6583:

swinsk.6410:

What class do you play? Why don’t we invent a trap for rangers that doesn’t allow them to evade for 30s?

dont thieves have nearly constant evasion if built right?

Sure, just like you can play a cantrip d/d ele or a dps staff ele.

Doesn’t mean we should create a trap that affects attunement swapping because dd ele are strong roamers.

No, they just nerfed d/d eles. The tears were delicious, btw.

Just like they tried to nerf stealth, but Karl McThief didn’t like it. So they came up with another method. A near-usless waste of badges and supply for someone who just has to win THAT badly against the noob-friendly mulligan class.

evilapprentice.6379:

EpiChlo.4072:

I have been seeing complaints to how bad we are being nerfed, that we should be “deleted”, so on and so forth. I have a few things to respond to.

1. We are useless without stealth, will die easy, can’t do anything, ect.
Please learn to adapt. There are many builds that work without stealth(my first thought is D/D Condition or Unicorn Build) You can play any of these AND do great damage. It’s just differen’t.
And if you still want to play backstab or some other build be prepared for revealed and learn to play around it. We have many ways to move fast. Shadow Step, SB 5, Heartseekers ect. Use other forms of damage that don’t require stealth. Even backstab builds can use heartseeker and do a good amount of damage. Or help a group with basilisk venom.

2. You wont be running into them every 5 feet. Most solo players wont drop them and if they do it’s super obvious. The animation is slower than other traps, takes longer than any stealth besides shadow refuge and if someone shadow refuges you can use your stealth trap(you have them too) and counter their wasted shadow refuge.

3. Worthless in a zerg.
Well this is partially true. But if you are a squishy thief were you ever much use in a zerg? If you just run with them stealthed you aren’t helping them fight. You can’t push cause you insta die. But let’s say you get hit by a stealth trap, oh no one person in the zerg can’t do anything. Except stun people, and do large critting heartseekers.

TL:DR
Don’t complain because you can’t adapt or don’t want to become skillful enough to play while revealed.

And again, it’s not about the actual cost/application effectiveness of the trap, how well it can be used on thieves, and so on – I’m not a fan of Anet introducing any effect that effectively invalidates an entire traitline, some traits outside that line, multiple utilities, and more for any class.

If the trap were meant to solely target portal/veil bombs, it could have simply pulsed a 3s reveal every second for 10s in the same radius. 30s reveal is pretty clearly targeted at thieves caught in the trap.

TL:DR – You shouldn’t wants traps targeted at shutting down a huge chunk of a classes functionality, regardless how well you can play around it. Its lazy, kittenty, kitten poor design, and it’s only a matter of time before it’s used to kitten up your class, and this game in general. Furthermore, accepting the trap as is makes you a bad, lazy player – I don’t want to beat an Ele because I dropped a trap that locked him into his current attunement for 30s, I want to beat him because I outplayed him.

If you truthfully wanted to out play him, then you would enjoy this trap. It’s adding another mechanic that says hey, screw up and it could hurt you a bit, or hey this guy is standing in one spot for 10 seconds, maybe he’s dropping a trap. The trap isn’t a 1200 radius until you proc it. But besides that it doesnt shut off much but 3/8ths of your trait line(if you go 30 in shadow arts) If you can’t survive 30 seconds without 30 trait points then maybe you should take a break and get some practice.

ScottBroChill.3254:

EpiChlo.4072:

ScottBroChill.3254:

I think the complaints lie in the fact that stealth isn’t what it is for everyone else. It’s our way to mitigate damage, it’s our way to do damage on par with others, its basically a part of us. There are some builds without stealth, but the majority of them utilize it to a fair extent. I almost consider it part of our class mechanic, as it even allows us a new stealth skill.

So, the trap takes away defense and attack. What’s left? nothing, and that’s the problem. Again this doesn’t apply to every build, but it is an integration to the class. We have a whole trait line dedicated to stealth buffs. What if the trap took away 50% of all other classes armor and damage? because that’s what it’s effectively doing for the thief for the most part.

Stealth Negates 0 Damage. You can still be hit by it, and anyone good will interrupt or cc you before you stealth and hit you. Stealth is used to evade and confuse people. You can do it other ways though, like SB and Shadow Step. You aren’t always reliant on stealth to do those things.

Some builds do less damage without stealth, but what build actually loses a large amount of dps. Backstab loses one burst, but still has high crit heartseekers and can simply kite for 30 seconds if you really have to. D/P Perma Stealth loses the most of anything, but they don’t lose their heartseeker damage.

Well stealth isn’t an active defense as armor is, but it serves the same purpose. The enemy loses targeting and tricking people is a form of defense. The regen and condition removal traits also make it defensive.

Although stealth doesn’t improve overall dps much, the stealth skill has good burst, you can trait for 100% crit, you can trait for extra damage from backstabs. So it really does increase burst potential by a lot, which is how thieves play. They aren’t meant for prolonged fights and aren’t meant to be hit. Stealth is perfect for both of those.

So the enemy being bad is an art of defense basically. Anyone good will have some sort of interrupt/cc/something to not let you stealth away easily. I know many high level players I run into notice any stealth. Snare you. Then kill you.
If you lose target so what. Many classes aren’t lock on only(Besides ranger) and most Rangers know how to relock quick and keep moving.

I understand that bad players are screwed by this trap, but it’s not imba cause they suck. Like the backstab complaints. “They can 1 hit me no fair.” Well if you see a thief or particle effects around make them miss venom and such. Bad players can’t do this and so they complain.

Zacchary.6183:

@ OP

Oh look how the tables have turned. At one point thieves were telling everyone L2P while slapping them with all kinds of advice, tips and other kitten as proven ways to counter them.

Now that everyone is telling us L2P, I say its only fair that we start kittening about how every other class’ mechanics are OP and we should get traps to counter them because we are lazy, bad players who refuse to accept the fact that we probably suck.

I mean that’s how everyone plays. Am I right?

We told them how to counter us, so we need to be ready for it.
ANet put in a new counter to us. We need to be ready for it.

Brassnautilus.2941:

only those that didn’t know how to utilize stealth properly would ever come to the conclusion that thieves without stealth would be ok.

it’s like going from a damascus steel blade to a wooden dagger, and there’s no magical property that make the wooden kitten hard as steel. You can say you were just as good with it, but the people that would buy such kitten are not my kind of people.

Only people who don’t know how to survive 30 seconds would complain that Thieves with revealed debuff would be not ok.

You can literally dance through enemy zergs spamming the 2 button on S/D. I’m so sorry that your Heartseeker monkery doesn’t automatically make you invincible for 5 seconds like Blurred Frenzy. I’m also sorry that now you have to think tactically rather than running in and hiding in Stealth. I’m also sorry that you now have to be careful before you immediately insta-nuke someone in a 1v1 by pressing 2 like a special person having a seizure.

I’m afraid all I see in this thread is a whole lot of L2P.

To OP: One thing is to adapt, but it’s something completely different buying a new set of gear, retrait and learn a completely new way to play your class. A stealth specced thief is dead without it. I have played bunker thieves without stealth – and I hated it. Boring and just not what I like. I love stealth and how it works, therefore I don’t want to play without it. It’s like saying: yeah, you Mesmers shouldn’t be able to create any clones and phantasms… How would that look like? People would hate it.

A thief without stealth, that is built for stealth, is a warrior with less damage, burst, armor and health. Really fair.

Wow, so much stupidity in one thread. Unbelievable.

This is not a learn 2 play issue. It is not about being able to survive for 30 seconds without stealth. It is not about losing burst damage potential because of missing stealth.

This issue is about a game mechanic – anti stealth traps – that is heavily influencing one class more than the rest. As has been mentioned, up to 30 trait points are going to waste. An entire mechanic is shut down because of this, and this mechanic happens to be a very big part of the thief class design. It does not matter how easily you can survive without stealth. All that matters is that one class is a lot more influenced by this mechanic than the rest.

How would guardians feel if they had no boons for 30 seconds at all?
How would necros feel without deathshroud for 30 seconds?
How would eles feel being locked into an attunement for 30 seconds?
How would mesmers feel without clones for 30 seconds?
…

You get my point. At least I hope that you do.

I’m sort of with Epi on this. Stealth is a means of escape and confusion, most thieves (Hopefully) already know this, with a added bonus depending on traits of damage. However being a stealth thief(Running Koroshi’s build, I suggest searching it up on Youtube), I would be willing to adapt and would put my dodges and escapes to good use for once. We do have – Shadowstep, infiltrators signet,along with shortbow #6 (Infiltrators Arrow) for a reason, either to move along the battlefield or to well, as the name suggest, infiltrate.

Either way, in wvw I haven’t encountered one Stealth-debuff trap yet.. But I still believe with every change we need to adapt. Adapting is what makes YOU stronger(Both ingame and RL), if you can’t, then what is there to say..
Anyway, just remember to adapt and adjust to the new change and we will all be good, we need to use our evasive skills and dodging to use with the new update, not being upset that we cant stealth anymore(Even if our builds run on pure stealth). It just means a new set of skills that you need to learn (If you haven’t…)

That’s my 2 cents, being a stealth thief. Adapting and adjusting, is all which is needed.
P.S. I think Anet was smart adding it, then we can finally stop Mesmer’s Veils when they take towers,keeps,garrisons, or even a Thieves shadow refuge on the other side.

(Also Epi, this is Conan :P)

EpiChlo.4072:

Zacchary.6183:

@ OP

Oh look how the tables have turned. At one point thieves were telling everyone L2P while slapping them with all kinds of advice, tips and other kitten as proven ways to counter them.

Now that everyone is telling us L2P, I say its only fair that we start kittening about how every other class’ mechanics are OP and we should get traps to counter them because we are lazy, bad players who refuse to accept the fact that we probably suck.

I mean that’s how everyone plays. Am I right?

We told them how to counter us, so we need to be ready for it.
ANet put in a new counter to us. We need to be ready for it.

When will they ever “need to get ready for it”? Never, and I just stated why.

RoterFuchs.9216:

How would guardians feel if they had no boons for 30 seconds at all?
How would necros feel without deathshroud for 30 seconds?
How would eles feel being locked into an attunement for 30 seconds?
How would mesmers feel without clones for 30 seconds?
…

You get my point. At least I hope that you do.

Getting rid of my pet on my ranger even for 30 seconds would be great, please make it happen anet :P
Could live without shroud for a while with my necro.
Getting rid of boons on my guardian or atttunement with my ele, not so much.

Shroud isn’t even remotely good, and I’ve lasted without it for a much longer time than that. Infact on many of my builds, I don’t even use it.

Taking away Mesmer clones is completely different, as that would be like taking away your weapon skills as a Thief which is not what they are talking about.

Meditation Guardians, hahahahahahaha, dead.

I generally stand in Fire/Air/Earth attunements for much longer than 30 seconds, but I suppose that’s because I’m a Staff Ele, not a face rolling D/D Ele. Of course I could make that argument about Thieves too, I play an S/D Thief, not a Heartseeker monkey thief.

Stealth is OP in every game it is implemented in, and more often than not, it is taken out post-release. Anyone remember teh GW1? WoW? Lawl.

Stealth was never in GW1…

And lol @ Unicorn being viable, no it’s not at all… death blossom is buggy as hell, you can literally walk to the side and 50% of the attack will miss you and those bleeds are absolutely necessary for damage. This even happens in pve but it’s less of a worry because mobs aren’t running around constantly. Pretty much requires 100% swiftness uptime and condition removal vs any decent player.

I’ve tested unicorn (or unicron as I like to call it) extensively and it is just not reliable enough to be efficient not to mention a cripple or freeze will make you completely useless.

Fortunately for me I run zerker gear and I don’t have to change my build at all to use all burst weapons whether I’m pistol whip, unload, or backstab nothing but a few trait swaps.

Mathias.9657:

Stealth was never in GW1…

And lol @ Unicorn being viable, no it’s not at all… death blossom is buggy as hell, you can literally walk to the side and 50% of the attack will miss you and those bleeds are absolutely necessary for damage. This even happens in pve but it’s less of a worry because mobs aren’t running around constantly.

I’ve tested unicorn (or unicron as I like to call it) extensively and it is just not reliable enough to be efficient not to mention a cripple or freeze will make you completely useless.

Stealth was implemented in GW1, then immediately removed after when the developers found out it was near impossible to balance.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Mathias.9657:

Stealth was never in GW1…

And lol @ Unicorn being viable, no it’s not at all… death blossom is buggy as hell, you can literally walk to the side and 50% of the attack will miss you and those bleeds are absolutely necessary for damage. This even happens in pve but it’s less of a worry because mobs aren’t running around constantly.

I’ve tested unicorn (or unicron as I like to call it) extensively and it is just not reliable enough to be efficient not to mention a cripple or freeze will make you completely useless.

Stealth was implemented in GW1, then immediately removed after when the developers found out it was near impossible to balance.

Yeah I’m gonna need to see a source for that because I don’t ever remember assassins getting stealth and I was there for factions release.

What about the peapole which hate to play condtions? or perhaps hate support? what if we want direct damage? huh huh?!

I want to point out, that I was and still am the sad little double dagger condition spec thief. And although, I don’t completely need stealth, I still need stealth.

Shadow’s Embrace – Condition remover. With the way PVE mobs spam conditions such as the Reef Drake. 3 Sec Stealth Reveal is deadly. Considering it only removes 1 condition in 3 seconds per stealth.

I think the fair thing for them to do at this point which will spur a huge bit of kitten debating at this point, is in Shadow Line, add a perma stealth trait, to give a reason for that 30 second reveal from a trap.

its like how other classes learn to predict what the thief’s behavior in stealth..
the thief now should predict enemy’s behavior when he try to lure em into one of these traps. beside, these traps are most deadly when its deployed by the thief itself.
this whole whine looks similar to how guardians whine when boonhate is introduced for the warrior.. they adapt just fine.. so will wvw thiefs.

I used to play alot when gw2 came out just came back recently so unsure what unicorn build is but i have found a couple decent specs that work nicely dont see what every ones complaining about

i would rather see stealth removed and the class reworked a bit so that we could have some specs with high toughness and power and crit damage not exactly game breaking with how squishy we are even with the best survive ability specs

mesmers are still op as they were when i left lols

Piola.3782:

I agree with swinsk…
I’m glad that you enjoy playing with the unicorn build, but it’s not fair that I have to change gear and playstyle
.

Lmfao, go look at the other classes. Every patch classes are being nerfed and people have to switch builds all the time. Recently, Elemenalist was nerfed with their D/D, but also got a sneaky focus nerf which killed off anyone using it. Engineers – grenade build was nerfed. Kit Refinement build nerfed. Anything else?

Theives have the least to worry about other than mesmers, Cant believe the amount of complaining a class like this does. On my thief its the only class, if you L2P, that is fun. Stealth helps the squishy nature, evasion and running away tactics as well. Damage is obviously high, feels almost too high but w/e. Mostly smaller group fights ofc. Go play WvW and see how many traps you see. I have seen one.

EpiChlo.4072:

I have been seeing complaints to how bad we are being nerfed, that we should be “deleted”, so on and so forth. I have a few things to respond to.

1. We are useless without stealth, will die easy, can’t do anything, ect.
Please learn to adapt. There are many builds that work without stealth(my first thought is D/D Condition or Unicorn Build) You can play any of these AND do great damage. It’s just differen’t.
And if you still want to play backstab or some other build be prepared for revealed and learn to play around it. We have many ways to move fast. Shadow Step, SB 5, Heartseekers ect. Use other forms of damage that don’t require stealth. Even backstab builds can use heartseeker and do a good amount of damage. Or help a group with basilisk venom.

2. You wont be running into them every 5 feet. Most solo players wont drop them and if they do it’s super obvious. The animation is slower than other traps, takes longer than any stealth besides shadow refuge and if someone shadow refuges you can use your stealth trap(you have them too) and counter their wasted shadow refuge.

3. Worthless in a zerg.
Well this is partially true. But if you are a squishy thief were you ever much use in a zerg? If you just run with them stealthed you aren’t helping them fight. You can’t push cause you insta die. But let’s say you get hit by a stealth trap, oh no one person in the zerg can’t do anything. Except stun people, and do large critting heartseekers.

TL:DR
Don’t complain because you can’t adapt or don’t want to become skillful enough to play while revealed.

Why is it that any time thief is hit with a nerf its always the same thing… learn to adapt or learn to play. Then in the same breath, these same people complain about stealth and not being able to beat a thief with THIER Preferred build. But do they need to learn to play or adapt? No, in that case its stealth is over powered or this skill of a thief does too much damage and on and on. I am tired of being told to adapt and change my thief to accommodate what everyone else wants. Every month its a new change and less variety of play with the thief and every month everyone says… oh just adapt to the changes. To heck with adapting every kitten month… I for one am tired of having to buy new gear, change my traits around, and totally learn a new style every bloody month because some people complain and get their way.

Now, as for your points:
1) Stealth is not just for BackStab or damage output. In fact, there are multiple traits that rely on stealth to work… such as health regen, init regen, condition removal, critical damage, and the list goes on. So, yes, 30 seconds of not being able to use ANY of those abilities traited for is a MAJOR hit. Can the thief be played without stealth… sure it can… but it would only be as effective as a thief who spent NO points in their trait lines because not being able to use stealth for 30 Seconds means we don’t get the benefits of those traits directly tied to stealth for those 30 seconds.
2) You forget something here. If an ally activates one, the thief if within 1200 radius is affected. So no, you may not be running into them every 5 feet but in a zerg with multiple allies, it will affect the thief greatly and not much of any other class even if Mesmers and the like seem to think it affects them more.
3) So by your logic… since the thief was no good in a zerg anyhow, then this is something we should just sit idle by and let happen? And where do you get we are useless in a zerg anyway? Wasn’t the main complaint about thieves such that they could take on entire zergs via perma-stealth and never get killed? What happened to that argument… oh that’s right, the argument never held water and now you cant fall back on it so now thief was always useless in zerg.

Zikory.6871:

I’ll say this. The trap has only been out for 3 days! This is not enough time to fully understand the trap. People know and understand the basic use of the trap but people haven’t found out how to abuse them yet.

Last night I got 10 thief kills with 10 traps. I would take a Sentry then place the trap at his feet. If a thief is the first to come its guaranteed to work every time.

TBH the trap is kitten. But I’m not going to complain about it because its been a blast trolling thieves.

And yet it was enough time for people to troll on and on about the new infiltrators strike ability and how OP it is on thieves… heck, people were trolling on about that one within a few hours of that patch.

Big Tower.5423:

What about the peapole which hate to play condtions? or perhaps hate support? what if we want direct damage? huh huh?!

Sure, Go roll a freaking warrior and get killed over and over again, now you want your damage! oh yea you will !