Guild Wars 2

title says it all. Im super excited about the spec and think it looks awesome. There was so much complaining about how thief needed another playstyle to be viable. for all intents and purposes it looks like that is what the devs have come up with. A bad kitten martial arts spec that doesnt rely on stealth. It looks to rely on movement speed, agility and timing. If you wanted something completely different that is way overpowered run a Mesmer and stop bringing the rest of us who love thief down.

P.S. I’m by no means an MMO veteran, but from what ive heard, to get an expansion where every class gets a brand new spec line and playstyle with new animations, new maps, new leagues, new PVE content, new skins….dude…..This is a great game and im sure Theives that put in the time will be able to smash with this new spec

It is only a different playstyle by it’s aesthetics alone. Its still melee, its still evasive. Thief has an ample amount of both of these and it is going to follow the path s/d took, eventually, because of of the amount of evasion s/d had pre-nerf. People are going to complain about too much evasion and then suddenly DD gets put on the level of the current acro.

Yeah… so much negativity, it’s like people are waiting any reason to hate, and complaint about any change. I play S/D so I don’t really like to depend of stealth too much. That is why I am kind of optimistic about this.

^Well said dude! People are disappointed because they wanted a new op spec which fixes all problems this profession has. However it’s true that thief has some major aspects which need to be reworked and redesigned but that’s not what the elite spec is for. People forget that the elite spec offers a new playstyle which is the case. The spec isn’t even revealed yet…Even if there are a few problems with skills, traits (…) that’s what the bwe is for.

They didn’t want an OP spec. They wanted something different. While they more or less got something different it ends up being a better version of something thieves already have. And so the question becomes “Why couldn’t they just put some of that into acro?”

yolo swaggins.2570:

It is only a different playstyle by it’s aesthetics alone. Its still melee, its still evasive. Thief has an ample amount of both of these and it is going to follow the path s/d took, eventually, because of of the amount of evasion s/d had pre-nerf. People are going to complain about too much evasion and then suddenly DD gets put on the level of the current acro.

This is sort of true. Staff is like a hybrid of S/D and S/P. If they put a smoke field on staff 4, I think you’d have a decent control set because you wouldn’t really be able to stack stealth mid combat with the costs of the leap. The whirl finishers would make it an interesting combo.

True, it might get nerfed, but so could DA, CS, SA, and Tr.

All that said, the utilities look like fun.

yolo swaggins.2570:

They didn’t want an OP spec. They wanted something different. While they more or less got something different it ends up being a better version of something thieves already have. And so the question becomes “Why couldn’t they just put some of that into acro?”

This part I completely agree with though, which is why I’ve said in other threads that I’m both happy and annoyed. I got acro back, but really I just got acro back.

I dont play a thief but I duel and pvp alot vs thives.
From what I can tell this spec is everything thives were lacking, the trait line and mechanic desighn is definitely a power creep on on the verge of being OP, great flavor and new play style. I dont think the goold old S/D can be compared, S/D was greatly about manganing the energy for evades and alot of blinking(in and out attack patterns) and most S/D builds used SR. This new traitline togather with acrobatics(great synergie) has the potential to make the theif an “esavie tank” he can literally be in the enmy face without blinking away or stealthing.Its a game changer for thief in both WVW and PVP we’ll have to c about PVE.

cant wait to play w the staff

yolo swaggins.2570:

They didn’t want an OP spec. They wanted something different. While they more or less got something different it ends up being a better version of something thieves already have. And so the question becomes “Why couldn’t they just put some of that into acro?”

I guess that is true, they could just update acro with all of this traits. However, “They wanted something different” I has been reading this kind of expression for a while, people say this and intermediately I imagine the thief using staff as a caster with a pointy hat and colorful spells … lol. I mean look the DH , it’s probably the most “different” spec compare to the original concept and just feel weird and have a total lack of synergy across new and old traits. Personally, I think that “something different” should maintain the core concept of the class.

I mean look the DH , it’s probably the most “different” spec compare to the original concept and just feel weird and have a total lack of synergy across new and old traits. Personally, I think that “something different” should maintain the core concept of the class.

I couldn’t agree more with this ^

Why community is negative? 3 years of constant nerfs on nerfs, lying and frankly trolling.
HoT hype and all spec offered is acro 2.0. They nerfed acro for the sake of new spec so they can sell HoT which was pathetic move.

New spec didn’t introduce any new role thief could fill. We are still +1 pet, that heavily relies on teammates to babysit him.
New spec has only synergy with evade builds (sword/x), nothing new for the rest zzzz.

Death Scythe.9738:

Yeah… so much negativity, it’s like people are waiting any reason to hate, and complaint about any change. I play S/D so I don’t really like to depend of stealth too much. That is why I am kind of optimistic about this.

im S/d also but first we recieve a massive nerf on acro then prolly they give it back through another trait…
bit of a bullkitten if u ask me but whatever im not excited nor “sad” about new stuff

I agree with Nivik completely. I just realized it doesn’t matter what they want, it will be filled with negative critics. Anet truly delivered this time with the traits, utilities and weapon skills but somehow it’s a complete scam because it looks like acro 2.0 . So much negativity it’s like impossible to appreciate the effort they put up whatsoever. Stop it already. This game is indeed amazing, if you don’t like it, go lvl up to 110 with WoW.

I feel like the dare devil has its own theme definitely. Yes acro was the evasive line but I feel like design wise the daredevil is trying to push that further and be an elite spec that is themed as the evasion tank. The elite spec is a spec built on evasion and fulfills that dodge monk play style found in a lot of games. Say they gave us a shadow bender elite spec is everyone going to complain that the spec is just an upgraded shadow arts just because it focuses on stealth and shadow magic. Same thing with an assassin or even sniper elite spec it would push the single target damage dealer role even further is everyone going to complain that it competes against crit strikes/deadly arts.

Also those complaining about acro getting nerfed. Well in order for us to be able to have access to both acro and these new traits they have to be balanced with the mindset that both can be taken.

I’m a pretty big complainer and the reason is not due to the fact that the spec is not OP or the spec is not any different of a play style, but because it is a scam. They gutted what we already had and then bring it back for a specific weapon set that pretty much forces us to buy the expansion right away and only use that weapon to have it. This is not a negativity you should complain about. A lot of us are negative for plenty of valid reasons.

There’s been a few issues with Thief that I’ve felt were needed for a long time(particularly PvE):
1) Hard hitting AoE initiative attack for AoE trash, so we aren’t strictly blind spammers.
2) A block.

The staff 2 and 4 seem to be effective AoE trash attacks with a respectable init cost with good support and the auto stacks vuln too. The tooltips look like low-power (1200 instead of 2000 pulm impact) so I’m hoping to see the damage go up a lot in a power build.

Bandit’s Defense being a block on utility is an incredibly smart move. There’s various weapon blocks with low cooldown that are good for PvE, however because of the init system blocks will either be restrictive and lock you out of attacks or be able to be spammed. The utility choice is great work-around for the init AND gives the flexibility for use of any weapon.

Warrior Physicals are all CC-moves and it’s nice to see the Thief incorporating more control aspects of Physicals rather than deviating like the Reaper Shouts.

PvP wise, I don’t know if D/P is going to be dropping SA. I could easily see S/D running this with Bandit’s Defense/Agility/SR. Distracting Daggers being similar to Mantra of Distraction pre-nerf/fix/whatever with a Thief version of Halting Strike means that a Soldier interrupt build would be possible.

I have a strong feeling this will open up build diversity between DA/SA/Tr D/P and the synergies of DD and other weapons. I doubt we’ll see the diversity of Guardians but hey!

This game is indeed amazing, if you don’t like it, go lvl up to 110 with WoW.

love it.

Thieves Guild for life boys,

and to guys out there like yolo who I know have been around forever and have a lot of experience and love for this class, I guarentee youre gonna be able to theory craft some crazy stuff with these new specs so that we can all get back to what we love
SMASHING MESMERS hahaha

Nivik.2961:

This game is indeed amazing, if you don’t like it, go lvl up to 110 with WoW.

love it.

Thieves Guild for life boys,

and to guys out there like yolo who I know have been around forever and have a lot of experience and love for this class, I guarentee youre gonna be able to theory craft some crazy stuff with these new specs so that we can all get back to what we love
SMASHING MESMERS hahaha

You’re missing the point a bit if you think that they can’t come up with “crazy” stuff…

You may not be aware of this but, they took something from a box we once had. The box had a label “Acrobatics” on it, they’ve from time to time been taking stuff out of it, and the last time they took something out of it it was the last thing left in the box that made we even reach for it. They then, hoping for newcomers to not read into the past, put what they’ve taken into another box, labeled it as “DareDevil”, and say it’s a brand new thing… While aesthetically, the new box looks different, when you start using the stuff inside it, those that were aware of the old box will realize how fimiliar it is and question why stuff like these hasn’t appeared in the old one, the newcomers will let it slide, since our “old” box to them is a recent one and as far as they’re concerned it was always half empty.

Zero Day.2594:

Nivik.2961:

This game is indeed amazing, if you don’t like it, go lvl up to 110 with WoW.

love it.

Thieves Guild for life boys,

and to guys out there like yolo who I know have been around forever and have a lot of experience and love for this class, I guarentee youre gonna be able to theory craft some crazy stuff with these new specs so that we can all get back to what we love
SMASHING MESMERS hahaha

You’re missing the point a bit if you think that they can’t come up with “crazy” stuff…

You may not be aware of this but, they took something from a box we once had. The box had a label “Acrobatics” on it, they’ve from time to time been taking stuff out of it, and the last time they took something out of it it was the last thing left in the box that made we even reach for it. They then, hoping for newcomers to not read into the past, put what they’ve taken into another box, labeled it as “DareDevil”, and say it’s a brand new thing… While aesthetically, the new box looks different, when you start using the stuff inside it, those that were aware of the old box will realize how fimiliar it is and question why stuff like these hasn’t appeared in the old one, the newcomers will let it slide, since our “old” box to them is a recent one and as far as they’re concerned it was always half empty.

I remember the “old” box. I don’t blame the young thieves that are growing up. They just don’t know any better.

Cynz.9437:

Why community is negative? 3 years of constant nerfs on nerfs, lying and frankly trolling.
HoT hype and all spec offered is acro 2.0. They nerfed acro for the sake of new spec so they can sell HoT which was pathetic move.

New spec didn’t introduce any new role thief could fill. We are still +1 pet, that heavily relies on teammates to babysit him.
New spec has only synergy with evade builds (sword/x), nothing new for the rest zzzz.

Ahhh but, don’t you love all the ignorant hate from other classes have against thieves right now (well…before mesmer start to take some of the hate, but you get the idea…) their tears feed the soul… lol , jokes outside , yes we passed trough really tough times, plenty of nerfs and yet, I don’t see the thieves’ population decrease in pvp. Also, “New spec has only synergy with evade builds (sword/x), nothing new for the rest” nothing for the rest….. rest …. do you mean the other 8…90% thief players that are using D/P ? and, “new role” … like …?

Gabriell.4856:

I remember the “old” box. I don’t blame the young thieves that are growing up. They just don’t know any better.

I wouldn’t go as far as saying “They don’t know any better”.
Just, they haven’t had the same amount of time.

Death Scythe.9738:

…
do you mean the other 8…90% thief players that are using D/P ? and, “new role” … like …?

The 90% can be split into can be split into two camps:

1st camp. Didn’t play S/D because they didn’t like it. Well, doubt they will like the new spec.

2nd camp. Played S/D till forced into or saw how better (or other reasons) D/P is. The new elite spec, doesn’t bring much, aside from an aesthetic makeover to a style they’ve once played.

Maybe it’s time we get over it. It’s been 2 days, and i am already sick of hearing that argument.
FACT : DAREDEVIL TRAIT = Acrobatics 2.0 .Now deal with it.

Is it a scam?
Is HoT expansion now worth $20 and a foot massage?
Is this ethical?
Is it a digusting marketing move?
Is it a nasty cover up?

Doesn’t really matter.. at the end of the day it’s a matter of perception.

But let me ask you this, what is your goal in GW2?

I pretty much just want to have fun with my thief. I want to kill people and escape tight situations and maybe do this with friends. then kill more people, rinse and repeat. From to times and I am like “probably time to craft that ascended armor” .. and go back to killing.

Maybe you can say that It doesn’t require a lot to please me. but guess what. So be it.

I think You are psychologically ruining your fun by thinking “this is scam, can’t believe they did that.” or “Staff is a useless weapon.” and you will end up not having fun during BWE not because of Thief related problems, but mostly because of your negativity.

This isn’t politics guys. I would understand if one politician you supported is a closet kitten … Now then, we could argue about ethics, and lies and trickery. Or Government promised A but ended doing the complete contrary.

HOWEVER, this is a video games, a formidable one at that, and talking about wether a trait is a scam or not, really shouldn’t affect your fun with your favorite character. Anet does whatever they want with their characters to be honest, and most importantly they made those changes so we can have fun and they can have money.

Conclusion: Don’t let trivial talks like this ruin your love the Thief. Trust me, IT IS acrobatics 2.0. but idgaf, It is not going to prevent me from rupturing mesmer lungs

Will you let Anet AND you to prevent yourself from enjoying your efforts on your Thief? So be it.

@Zero Day HOLY PATRONIZING…..I’m not even mad, that’s just impressive haha

yeah man, I know the Acro nerfs hurt. From where im standing, this Elite spec is an honest attempt at getting the thief to where we want it. Im excited and I dont think its right that people are getting so negative about it when it hasn’t even been released. That’s all.

Zero Day.2594:

Death Scythe.9738:

…
do you mean the other 8…90% thief players that are using D/P ? and, “new role” … like …?

The 90% can be split into can be split into two camps:

1st camp. Didn’t play S/D because they didn’t like it. Well, doubt they will like the new spec.

2nd camp. Played S/D till forced into or saw how better (or other reasons) D/P is. The new elite spec, doesn’t bring much, aside from an aesthetic makeover to a style they’ve once played.

and they have all the right in the world to don’t like S/D, but I am pretty sure that there is more than one thief that actually enjoy S/D I do, and I had played D/P, do I am less theoretically competent that D/P ? maybe, do I have fun ? a lot, and yes the new elite is maybe acro 2.0 , but is not just a “aesthetic makeover” .

Nivik.2961:

@Zero Day HOLY PATRONIZING…..I’m not even mad, that’s just impressive haha

yeah man, I know the Acro nerfs hurt. From where im standing, this Elite spec is an honest attempt at getting the thief to where we want it. Im excited and I dont think its right that people are getting so negative about it when it hasn’t even been released. That’s all.

What a pathetic failure at guerilla marketing…

The only one looking bad is a certain dev, who I am not going to name.

Anyway arguing is pointless.

Just want to point out that, although staff might be fun: I don’t care for anything else than my D/D thief and I want him to be viable again. Although some datamined traits looked nice I’d have to give up another trait line for it and I don’t think that would be worth it, although all trait lines of thief need rework.
So, as long as everything thief has got is that wonky and half cooked it’s hard to tell whether or not the acro nerf and then rebirth in the elite was justified.
I don’t whine though, although I seriously feel like it :P

Edit: And I sure as hell don’t want to be OP – I’d play another class if I wanted that.

Truth be told, I think I’m just reflecting and debating against myself whether to get the game and go on with or not and go elsewhere.

I like how people are saying “It’ll just get nerfed and be useless”

You know, as if this isn’t a clear indication that they’ve decided that the nerfs to theif evasion were heavy handed and that they consider this to be a viable counter in a world where all the other elite specs live.

Do you really think they’d nerf acro, then design acro 2.0, if they were going to just return us back to the status quo?

Their thinking probably went like this:

Acro is “too good”

Old Acro style wouldn’t be “too good” as an elite spec since they couldn’t combo it with other elite specs we have planned (gunslinger, shadow mage, other ranged style E-Specs)

They’re going to complain about acro being made redundant.

We’ll just try to explain to them why.

They’ll hate it anyway.

They’re thieves. They hate everything we do. Compile and release.

Thieves gonna hate.

I for one love the new spec, gg ANet.

Kocoff.7582:

Maybe it’s time we get over it. It’s been 2 days, and i am already sick of hearing that argument.
FACT : DAREDEVIL TRAIT = Acrobatics 2.0 .Now deal with it.

Is it a scam?
Is HoT expansion now worth $20 and a foot massage?
Is this ethical?
Is it a digusting marketing move?
Is it a nasty cover up?

Doesn’t really matter.. at the end of the day it’s a matter of perception.

But let me ask you this, what is your goal in GW2?

I pretty much just want to have fun with my thief. I want to kill people and escape tight situations and maybe do this with friends. then kill more people, rinse and repeat. From to times and I am like “probably time to craft that ascended armor” .. and go back to killing.

Maybe you can say that It doesn’t require a lot to please me. but guess what. So be it.

I think You are psychologically ruining your fun by thinking “this is scam, can’t believe they did that.” or “Staff is a useless weapon.” and you will end up not having fun during BWE not because of Thief related problems, but mostly because of your negativity.

This isn’t politics guys. I would understand if one politician you supported is a closet kitten … Now then, we could argue about ethics, and lies and trickery. Or Government promised A but ended doing the complete contrary.

HOWEVER, this is a video games, a formidable one at that, and talking about wether a trait is a scam or not, really shouldn’t affect your fun with your favorite character. Anet does whatever they want with their characters to be honest, and most importantly they made those changes so we can have fun and they can have money.

Conclusion: Don’t let trivial talks like this ruin your love the Thief. Trust me, IT IS acrobatics 2.0. but idgaf, It is not going to prevent me from rupturing mesmer lungs

Will you let Anet AND you to prevent yourself from enjoying your efforts on your Thief? So be it.

+1 My thoughts exactly. I’d be lying if I said I thought the thief profession was perfect, but I’d also be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy the class. All in all, I’m pumped for this elite spec and weapon!

PopeUrban.2578:

I like how people are saying “It’ll just get nerfed and be useless”

You know, as if this isn’t a clear indication that they’ve decided that the nerfs to theif evasion were heavy handed and that they consider this to be a viable counter in a world where all the other elite specs live.

Do you really think they’d nerf acro, then design acro 2.0, if they were going to just return us back to the status quo?

Their thinking probably went like this:

Acro is “too good”

Old Acro style wouldn’t be “too good” as an elite spec since they couldn’t combo it with other elite specs we have planned (gunslinger, shadow mage, other ranged style E-Specs)

They’re going to complain about acro being made redundant.

We’ll just try to explain to them why.

They’ll hate it anyway.

They’re thieves. They hate everything we do. Compile and release.

This is probably more true than not. I wish they’d just overhaul Acrobatics into a more cohesive line then. Taking off the rose colored glasses, I took acro for FG. While there were a couple of alright major traits, most of the good ones were adept tier. So far the datamined traits are cohesive. They actually synergize with the utilities available to the spec. For that 12th one I’d like to see even more endurance regen. Then they can rename acrobatics something else, because it’s still an odd assortment of weird traits barely attached to evasion, with the exception of a couple of underpowered ones. Theme it around improving shadowstepping/chasing people down or something.

PopeUrban.2578:

I like how people are saying “It’ll just get nerfed and be useless”

You know, as if this isn’t a clear indication that they’ve decided that the nerfs to theif evasion were heavy handed and that they consider this to be a viable counter in a world where all the other elite specs live.

Do you really think they’d nerf acro, then design acro 2.0, if they were going to just return us back to the status quo?

Their thinking probably went like this:

Acro is “too good”

Old Acro style wouldn’t be “too good” as an elite spec since they couldn’t combo it with other elite specs we have planned (gunslinger, shadow mage, other ranged style E-Specs)

They’re going to complain about acro being made redundant.

We’ll just try to explain to them why.

They’ll hate it anyway.

They’re thieves. They hate everything we do. Compile and release.

Those are interesting points. I wish more people on the forums were as rational as you are.

Well if you like performing in a circus with your cute little staff tricks that people ‘dawww’ at because you’re so pathetic and adorable.

Daredevil is for you!

I do have to agree with some of what they are saying. It does seem like the "Daredevil’ traits are elite version of traits that could be in Acrobatics, Critical Strikes, and Deadly Arts. Almost like its an Elite Specialization or something.

Beggars can’t be choosers. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. :P

LughLongArm.5460:

I dont play a thief but I duel and pvp alot vs thives.
From what I can tell this spec is everything thives were lacking, the trait line and mechanic desighn is definitely a power creep on on the verge of being OP, great flavor and new play style. I dont think the goold old S/D can be compared, S/D was greatly about manganing the energy for evades and alot of blinking(in and out attack patterns) and most S/D builds used SR. This new traitline togather with acrobatics(great synergie) has the potential to make the theif an “esavie tank” he can literally be in the enmy face without blinking away or stealthing.Its a game changer for thief in both WVW and PVP we’ll have to c about PVE.

as a strict PVE thief, im telling ya right now, this is amazing.

Waterseer.7089:

Beggars can’t be choosers. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. :P

unless you’re a mesmer or warrior. in which case you can do whatever the f/uck you want because ANet loves you more than anyone else

a thief without stealth = dead thief no matter what the staff can do.

Yes, the leaked Staff skills aren’t exactly lighting the world on fire… but some of the leaked utilities and traits are great. We finally get our first proper block, and it’s a stun break on an 8-10s CD… that can also knockdown?! That is significant.

I’m also excited with the two physical Dagger utilities. That sort of stuff is what my P/D build has wanted for a long time.

Taxidriver.2043:

a thief without stealth = dead thief no matter what the staff can do.

There is so much evasion available that stealth is absolutely not required anymore. Not sure about staff yet, but these traits with S/D, Acro and trickery make you able to dodge and evade for days. I always felt stealth to be cheesy, now I don’t need to use it. I’ll be using this.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Build-Untouchable-Duelist/first#post5418299

And people fell for it anet sort of gave you and old build back and you act like you got something really worthwhile. Roll what anet wants you to play Mesmer, elementalist or warrior.

I’m not “falling” for anything. I am encouraged by the leaked info, but I still have grave concerns about the Thief profession. To make this elite specialization truly worthwhile, they’ll have to at least give us another round of trait revamps before HoT first.

The problem, at least to a recent comer to playing the class, is that by all looks, the old S/D acro build ALREADY fucntioned like the elite spec, got nerfed into oblivion, and then given back to us as an elite spec that doesn’t change the class from what it used to have.