Guild Wars 2

Hello, I have only really played guild wars for about a month now (i know you guys are gonna flame the kitten out of me) i do have pvp experience, i got up to 2.3k rating i wow with a frost mage and 2.1k rating with a rogue and 1900 with a pally healer. obviously wow is different than this game but before you guys flame me i definitly know something about pvp.

The problem i find with the guild wars community is that everyone complains before they try to understand things. so this is to all the complainers.

A) the most common complaint i see is that rogues are over powered because of their burst. what people dont realize is that, thats what a rogue is built to do. Obviously some abilities are going to be op, its how all games work. how many times have people played a game where everything is 100% balanced? it jsut doesnt work that way. certain classes will be more op and then they get nerfed and then others are op. BUT a rogues weakness is and always has been defence. rogues are built to tear through squishies. put a rogue up against a guardian and its a joke. it doesnt mean all of a sudden guardians are op and rogues suck, it jsut means you are playing a counter? its like in WoW, my frost mage will destroy rogues BUT put me up against a hunter and i get ruined. it doesnt make hunters op. the reason why they beat rogues is because of all the defensive abilities. if you live through the 5-10 secs of burst a rogue has then there done. thats the definition of burst.

B) another common complaint is that omg a rogue brought me down to 5k health in like 10 seconds. yes this is what a rogue does. you may be low but by that team the rogue has blown everything he/she has and then its time for you to win. Instead of complaining about this, try and learn what to do when a rogue comes. Every class has its own weaknesses, you have to try and learn those and learn to counter them. This is how you get better in pvp. CCing a rogue is devestating to a rogue. rogues cant do much if there slowed or CCed. Now guild wars doesnt seem to have diminishing returns which will make it easier to CC a rogue. rogues are not really built for consistant dmg, there built to run in and kitten But again put a rogue against a tank and they get ruined.

C) another complaint: OMG I SAW A ROGUE 2 SHOT SOMEONE, THEIR OP. no their not, it al ldepends on skill. In WoW with my rogue i could tear through a 1300 rating mage but get one thats over 2k and i cant do kitten. its all about learning each class. if you dont know each class and what they can do then your not going to do well in pvp. Pvp is alot more complicated then people realize. this is why people always tell others how to beat certain classes. im sorry but if you dont know how to kill someone then how can you expect to kill them? pvp is not about button mashing, its about different strategies for certain classes.

In conclusion: i obviously realize at certain times classes are op when others are not. this is how pretty much every MMORPG works. dont worry give it time and your class will be op. People always say that omg all a rogue does is stealth and backstab over and over, yes because this is how they are good. its called a cookie cutter build. if you played a rogue would you be like well i know this is reallly op so i wont do it, i’ll do something else? no because everyone wants to win. instead of complaining maybe learn how to beat one? like in WoW mages get ruined by hunters BUT if you play it properly there is a couple ways to stand enough to kill one. Again i realize i am referencing WoW alot but its what i am experienced in. obviously it is different then guild wars but pvp generally has rules that make it the same in every game. i also play league of legends and its the same kitten. OMG THIS GUY KILLED ME HES OP, no maybe you just aren’t as good? people never want to admit that someone is better. i get ruined by certain people in guild wars or in wow that i probably shouldnt but it just means that the guy is better.

Therefore this thread is in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM talking about how rogues aren’t op or certain classes aren’t, this is jsut to the complainers and trying to get people to understand that if someone kills you, dont flame they could be better then you

Thank you, i realize people are going to flame this thread, and that generally means that you cant admit it, so flame all you want, its not going to change anything

also if i am wrong with anything to do with guild wars 2 then please let me know, i admit that i dont not know that much about guild wars as i do other games, this is just my opinion

What’s a Rogue?

sorry im used to calling them rogues, its a thief (same attributes and same idea as a rogue)

Nice post but as you can see by the first replay, very few ppl will understand what your saying, this forum is mainly crowded by whiners/trolls mainly… Nice effort though.

Cheqdaddy.4213:

B) another common complaint is that omg a rogue brought me down to 5k health in like 10 seconds.

heh

Is trying to justify playing an OP profession so important to you? You keep lying to others and to yourself, that’s quite sad, really.

Don’t worry, nerfs will come and I will see you coming back to WoW or rerolling the next FotM, claiming that “class got useless”. Been there, seen that many times.

also what im trying to justify is that people just dont attempt to learn how to play their class to the full ability. to be better then the average player in a game in PvP you have to understand each class, as i also stated: there are ways to beat an op profession, the issue is no one takes the time to learn, there is always a way if you want to learn.

Most complainments are build upon ignorance of the thief class. A thief cant have everything without sacrificing something, hence most burst/instagib thiefs have a weak stealth, close to no mobility and are dead as soon as you use your stunbreaker or nullify their burst in another way.

Thief is sadly a noobstomper, hence alot of noobs play the class to kill noobs and the killed noobs complain and/or reroll thief themself to stomp other noobs. As soon as they face someone who understand their own class, they wont be able to do much.

The only thing which need to be changed is to make the burst harder to apply so that noobs have it harder to kill other noobs while halfway decent player can still kill noobs.

thank you, i agree, its all about learning your class. Like my example: as a frost mage i would tear apart a hunter that was lower rating and didnt know how to use their class, but face one at my level and i get destroyed. It doesnt mean that Mages or Hunters are op, its that hunters counter them, thank you for your reply, yes i agree, to make it more skillful to burst. its like every other class, when you build a way there is always a weakness. if you build different ways then you have a different weakness but its all about learning that and finding out what the weakness is and to use that to your advantage.

Edelweiss.9815:

Is trying to justify playing an OP profession so important to you? You keep lying to others and to yourself, that’s quite sad, really.

Don’t worry, nerfs will come and I will see you coming back to WoW or rerolling the next FotM, claiming that “class got useless”. Been there, seen that many times.

What? The last 3-4 patches of nerfing Thieves and their mechanics weren’t enough? You guys kittened about Heartseeker and it got crushed on targets above 50%.

What more do you want? We’re already gimmicky warriors with medium armor.

Volrath.1473:

Nice post but as you can see by the first replay, very few ppl will understand what your saying, this forum is mainly crowded by whiners/trolls mainly… Nice effort though.

If you read it carefully, you’d notice how the entire post pertains to WoW Rogues and is barely even applicable to the GW2 Thief. “Down to 5k in 10 seconds,” is a dead giveaway here without even mentioning all of the WoW references that cannot; in any way, shape, or form; be related to the way that the classes in GW2 play.

@Cheq: Telling people to stop QQing, or why their QQ is pointless/wrong, does just about as much good as me telling you that this post is trash. Regardless of whether its true or not, neither side is going to be willing to concede their ‘point.’

Sure, complainers need to let up on posting bullkitten QQ in this forum, but will they simply because you posted an unrelated thread about WoW PvP complainers? Absolutely not. Sure, trash like this post doesn’t belong in the Thief forum, but will you delete your thread because of that? Probably not.

well if you read the post it’s not about wow (the game) but about community behavior and yes its basically the same. ppl what to be able to kill every thing with no effort what so ever and at the same time never die…

Is ppl what to be able to kill every class they need PRACTICE and learn the opponents abilities and main rotations based on the weapons they are holding, then they need to learn how to counter them with they’re one abilities and that also takes practice and a lot of time. Most ppl don’t want to do that they just wanna faceroll they’re keyboards and kill the world, if they cant do that, if some one has the nerve to outsmart/outplay them and OMG kill them then they rush to this forum and whine… its a lot easier to whine begging for nerfs / buffs that to L2P.

thank you criss cross for your post, this post does not pertain to rogues from WoW, i give the example because pvp in WoW and gw2 may be different but its the same concept, learning their class and other classes before whining about how everything is op. My whole point is that just because a class can kill another class it doesnt make them op. this post may not belong is this thread directly, but i point it in the theif thread because this is mainly about how people complain about theifs. i jsut want people to realize that they need to learn first then they will be good. No i do not think this will change everyone and all of a sudden stop complaining, but this is for the people who might think otherwise. the WoW references are their because i know more about WoW then gw2. it has the same overall concept (complaining that someone is op when its because you dont know your class). the whole down to 5k in 10 seconds is obviously an exageration, its here because thats what im seeing. its not what i think. so if you say you read it carefully it clearly says that this is what i see most commonly from other people not myself. i saw yes thats what rogues do not incinuating that theifs WILL bring you that low, it just means they have alot of burst.

thank you vol, yes i agree, or people its so much easier to complain then to jsut sit down and learn to play. it takes a very long time to actaully learn your class. you wont learn it in a month or 2, it takes awhile. thank you

I didn’t realize rouge was such a powerful dye…….I must purchase this dye.

Cheqdaddy.4213:

B) another common complaint is that omg a rogue brought me down to 5k health in like 10 seconds.

It’s more like "OMG, this thief just CnD, Steal(Mug), and Backstabbed me for 21k total damage while I had 2600 toughness and killed me in 0.5 seconds because I didn’t see him coming.

Let’s be realistic, on the other side of the coin is the “I saw this thief give me a strange look down yonder, so I have aegis up, and I’m ready to evade roll and make him miss his backstab so now he has to try to run away or I’m going to smash his skull in with this giant kitten hammer because he’s full glass cannon and now I know he’s here.”

EDIT: Your post pertains to WoW, not GW2. Perhaps you should try the Rogue forums there.

again, it pertains to GW2 because its the same concept, i use WoW references but the concept is in GW2 but thanks

Cheqdaddy.4213:

the most common complaint i see is that rogues are over powered because of their burst. what people dont realize is that, thats what a rogue is built to do.

While I’m sure there are lots of interesting and debatable points in the remainder of your post, this is where you really demonstrate that you don’t understand the profession you’re trying to play. In limiting yourself to specific things that you’re “built to do” you’re diminishing the profession far more than anyone calling for a nerf. This immalleable mindset is defeatist and far worse for the community than anything you’re trying to prevent.

Tulisin.6945:

Cheqdaddy.4213:

the most common complaint i see is that rogues are over powered because of their burst. what people dont realize is that, thats what a rogue is built to do.

While I’m sure there are lots of interesting and debatable points in the remainder of your post, this is where you really demonstrate that you don’t understand the profession you’re trying to play. In limiting yourself to specific things that you’re “built to do” you’re diminishing the profession far more than anyone calling for a nerf. This immalleable mindset is defeatist and far worse for the community than anything you’re trying to prevent.

Whats funny is, if this is the actual mindset of thieves on this forum, they shouldn’t be worked up about getting nerfs either, because technically, that’s what is ‘supposed to happen’. Clearly this train of thought means that Arenanet’s original proposition of what a Thief should do can not be wrong, or something.

At this point, I’m pretty sure that what we are seeing is the vast number of average thieves playing average builds and beeing called out for nerfs by the vast number of average players being killed by them. The nerfs you all call for (or the concept that a thief SHOULD be bursty) won’t actually impact those talented thieves you should really be worried about in PVP. You can learn to deal with the stealth bursters … they have a repeatable pattern and limited resources to apply their one trick pony. You all should be more worried about the thieves that can do the things you don’t expect.

I’m all for nerfs too … the kind that make off the wall builds much more accessible so that people that face thieves won’t know what’s coming at them.

Pretty good thread. However i doubt Anet would even consider any of this.

OP, while I don’t entirely disagree with the point your post, the above posters are correct in that your analysis is based on a flawed and somewhat short-sighted set of expectations. You are trying to tell other people how they should ‘accept’ the thief of GW2 based on your biased perspective taken from the comparatively simplistic design of the Rogue in WoW. Regardless of how similar the two classes may (or may not) be in concept, the fact remains that GW2 has a very different and much more elaborate class design philosophy than WoW has. Namely, roles, specialties, strengths and weaknesses are based more on builds than they are on the class itself.

All classes have a combination of offensive (melee AND ranged gasp), defensive, and utility skills with various ways of focusing on some over others. As such there’s no reason why all thieves should expect to have serious trouble beating a guardian, and why all squishy classes (or, more accurately, all characters with glass cannon-ish builds) should accept being obliterated by thief openers before they can react.

not even going to read what you wrote because you’re obviously attempting to defend the fact that theives being invisible for 3/4 of the fight and doing 8k hits is totally acceptable

The combat log takes up every hit something does before it gives you the end number.

The dancing dagger hit all your clones and then hit you, and then at the end it gave you a total number.

If it gave you real numbers of how many times you were actually hit for, it would probably spam your combat log, the devs did it differently do it gives you a total number of all the hits combined.

it hit your clone for 1k, then another clone for 1k, then another clone for 1k then you for 1k. (total damage, 4k.)

This is why warriors “bladetrail” is showing up in the combat log as crazy damage, like 28k.

Daecollo.9578:

The combat log takes up every hit something does before it gives you the end number.

The dancing dagger hit all your clones and then hit you, and then at the end it gave you a total number.

If it gave you real numbers of how many times you were actually hit for, it would probably spam your combat log, the devs did it differently do it gives you a total number of all the hits combined.

it hit your clone for 1k, then another clone for 1k, then another clone for 1k then you for 1k. (total damage, 4k.)

whether it’s different for pvp (i highly doubt it) i don’t know, but clones taking damage or doing damage don’t show up in the combat log

If I hit 5 people with a cluster bomb, it will show I did 2k damage to each of them.

On their combat log, it says I hit them for 10k damage.

Daecollo.9578:

The combat log takes up every hit something does before it gives you the end number.

The dancing dagger hit all your clones and then hit you, and then at the end it gave you a total number.

If it gave you real numbers of how many times you were actually hit for, it would probably spam your combat log, the devs did it differently do it gives you a total number of all the hits combined.

it hit your clone for 1k, then another clone for 1k, then another clone for 1k then you for 1k. (total damage, 4k.)

This is why warriors “bladetrail” is showing up in the combat log as crazy damage, like 28k.

also if that was actually the case, how is this acceptable?

What i got from that thread is that you’re complaining about people complaining. That’s like trying to stop a forest fire with thermite.

Syn, when was the above screenshot taken?

Einlanzer.1627:

Syn, when was the above screenshot taken?

2 days ago (29th), i’m not even a glass cannon but if i was i’d have taken ~10k damage or so..

also i’m fairly certain that there world had 1 orb as did mine

As long as culling and 10k hits exist the complaining about thieves will not stop. I dont mind them hitting hard, I mind them being invisible while they do so because the programmers of this game failed when it came to graphics rendering.

Thieves hit hard. I got no problem with that. But they also stealth. So it means no matter how good you are at dodging, thief can just pop up next to you hit couple times and almost all time kill you. Because of their no cd burst.

Also thieves can get so much stealth from utility skills that even with glass cannon build they get super high ability to survive.

I myself only have lvl 40 thief. I tried because a lot of people complained about how op it is. Most of time i easily burst down players in wvw and if not i just stealth away. Level it 20 -> 40 from playing wvw only.