Guild Wars 2

Just curious if anyone had any input on this trait:

Uncatchable
Leave Caltrops behind when you dodge.
(Adds 1x Bleeding stack, and the Cripple condition)

I enjoy this trait, but am curious as to how others find its usefulness.

Basically I position myself behind a mob, dodge roll through them to drop the caltrops directly on top of them, and then Death Blossom back to were I just was. I do this 3 times very VERY quickly which tosses up 12 stacks of bleeding.

On bosses I will usually drop Caltrops (the skill not the caltrops from the Uncatchable trait) just before I begin this rotation of Dodge/DB. By the time I finish this rotation I will usually have ~18-20 stacks of bleeding, and will usually end up in the low 20s before they start fading off.

This does not include using Steal, and tossing out a 4ths DB, which would bring the total stacks of bleeding up to 15, which with even marginal amounts of Condition Damage is enough to destroy a veteran mob, or put a pretty good dent in a Champion.

I have heard people say that the Trait: Uncatchable is garbage, but with the tratit: Feline Grace you can dodge 3x before you need to wait for it to regen, thats 3 stacks of bleeding just from dodging!

It’s insane for condition builds. Whoever claimed it is useless is just another thief only capable of backstab.

Its not a useless trait, just one thats is only really only good in pve or holding points in SPvP.

Its quite terrible against anyone else because its duration. (0.8 seconds.)

I think the duration should be bumped up to be in line with other dodge-on-roll traits.

Also, the ability forces you into combat, so if your trying to be uncatchable (running away.) and your both out of combat, then you roll, and that will put you in combat, making you MUCH slower. LOL

It is essential for my condition damage based thief.

Uncatchable + Power of Inertia + Feline Grace makes dodge very useful.

Kindread.9481:

I enjoy this trait, but am curious as to how others find its usefulness.

Basically it never left my trait list since I discovered it there.

Ah good, I see we are on the same page then.

I have not done any PvP yet, and focus almost exclusively on PvE. I also find the 0.8sec duration to be just fine the way I use it, but it would be nice to have it extended to maybe 1.5sec so you can more easily trip up mobs that are chasing you.

@brunohstein
I only recently got the trait: Power of Inertia and I am quite amazed as its uptime. Because of how I usually begin combat (with 3 quick dodges and 3 quick DBs) I also get 3 stacks of Might, which greatly increase my damage for the remainder of the fight.

its good but its sitational i like to use it while stealthed when they less likely to move off point, they do about 2 stack per tick and can easyily get 6 stacks they dont last long tohugh but u can do 2-3 dodges and its pretty good.

Kindread.9481:

Ah good, I see we are on the same page then.

I have not done any PvP yet, and focus almost exclusively on PvE. I also find the 0.8sec duration to be just fine the way I use it, but it would be nice to have it extended to maybe 1.5sec so you can more easily trip up mobs that are chasing you.

@brunohstein
I only recently got the trait: Power of Inertia and I am quite amazed as its uptime. Because of how I usually begin combat (with 3 quick dodges and 3 quick DBs) I also get 3 stacks of Might, which greatly increase my damage for the remainder of the fight.

My traits provide me might whenever I use a venom skill too, so I am constantly with 2-3 stacks of might.

I also agree that the caltrops dropped when you dodge could last longer.

Kindread.9481:

Feline Grace you can dodge 3x before you need to wait for it to regen, thats 3 stacks of bleeding just from dodging!

Uncatchable caltrops stack one bleed per second up to the four second duration, not one bleed period. So triple dodging will give you, for a brief period of time, a triple caltrops field that gives 3 stacks of bleed every second standing in it. If you can land all three fields on your target and cause them to stand in it for the full duration, that is 12 stacks of bleed applied via your dodges, not 3. Given enough condition damage to get 100/tick bleeds (not that much) and enough +duration to push bleeds to 4 seconds, a dodge will give you 1600 damage/target (4 bleed stacks, each doing 100 damage 4 times). Not a huge amount, but nothing to scoff at for the cost of a dodge, not to mention it is AE and those aren’t max numbers.

i can do 25 stacks of bleeding sometimes and i dont use any caltrops for that ive had times when i could do even more stacks but it just wont go higher than 25 :p

Love this trait! Can get lots of bleeds quickly on a target … C&D, Caltrops, Dodge w/Caltrops, Pistol/1 = many bleeds quickly.

Toversletje.9345:

i can do 25 stacks of bleeding sometimes and i dont use any caltrops for that ive had times when i could do even more stacks but it just wont go higher than 25 :p

I would love to hear how you accomplish this!

I have a pretty hard time getting up into the 20 stack range and that is with the trait: Uncatchable, and the skill: Caltrops.

Burst damage on a stationary mob I can pretty easily reach 21-22 and maintain it for a few seconds, then keep it steady in the teens. I would love to hear how you do this!

Tulisin.6945:

Kindread.9481:

Feline Grace you can dodge 3x before you need to wait for it to regen, thats 3 stacks of bleeding just from dodging!

Uncatchable caltrops stack one bleed per second up to the four second duration, not one bleed period. So triple dodging will give you, for a brief period of time, a triple caltrops field that gives 3 stacks of bleed every second standing in it. If you can land all three fields on your target and cause them to stand in it for the full duration, that is 12 stacks of bleed applied via your dodges, not 3. Given enough condition damage to get 100/tick bleeds (not that much) and enough +duration to push bleeds to 4 seconds, a dodge will give you 1600 damage/target (4 bleed stacks, each doing 100 damage 4 times). Not a huge amount, but nothing to scoff at for the cost of a dodge, not to mention it is AE and those aren’t max numbers.

Great information Tulisin! I guess I never noticed that the caltrops from Dodge continue to stack bleed effects on a stationary target. I will have to mess around with this when I get home tonight!

You seem to be implying through your post that bleed effects are decent damage, but nothing to write home about. Are you comparing bleed damage to crit damage? I always felt like I did a bit more damage with a Pistol Whip crit build, but just LOVE the playstyle of the D/D Bleed build.

brunohstein.9038:

Kindread.9481:

Ah good, I see we are on the same page then.

I have not done any PvP yet, and focus almost exclusively on PvE. I also find the 0.8sec duration to be just fine the way I use it, but it would be nice to have it extended to maybe 1.5sec so you can more easily trip up mobs that are chasing you.

@brunohstein
I only recently got the trait: Power of Inertia and I am quite amazed as its uptime. Because of how I usually begin combat (with 3 quick dodges and 3 quick DBs) I also get 3 stacks of Might, which greatly increase my damage for the remainder of the fight.

My traits provide me might whenever I use a venom skill too, so I am constantly with 2-3 stacks of might.

I also agree that the caltrops dropped when you dodge could last longer.

So you use a Venom/Bleed build?

Just today I was thinking of trying something like that out. Afterall, I already stack a bunch of Condition Damage, why not try and toss in some Poison at the same time!

Care to share your build with me?

Kindread.9481:

brunohstein.9038:

Kindread.9481:

Ah good, I see we are on the same page then.

I have not done any PvP yet, and focus almost exclusively on PvE. I also find the 0.8sec duration to be just fine the way I use it, but it would be nice to have it extended to maybe 1.5sec so you can more easily trip up mobs that are chasing you.

@brunohstein
I only recently got the trait: Power of Inertia and I am quite amazed as its uptime. Because of how I usually begin combat (with 3 quick dodges and 3 quick DBs) I also get 3 stacks of Might, which greatly increase my damage for the remainder of the fight.

My traits provide me might whenever I use a venom skill too, so I am constantly with 2-3 stacks of might.

I also agree that the caltrops dropped when you dodge could last longer.

So you use a Venom/Bleed build?

Just today I was thinking of trying something like that out. Afterall, I already stack a bunch of Condition Damage, why not try and toss in some Poison at the same time!

Care to share your build with me?

Of course, here it is: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAoYVlcmKPHay7E+5EhniviWtH30mtsTxV1KA

brunohstein.9038:

Kindread.9481:

brunohstein.9038:

Kindread.9481:

Ah good, I see we are on the same page then.

I have not done any PvP yet, and focus almost exclusively on PvE. I also find the 0.8sec duration to be just fine the way I use it, but it would be nice to have it extended to maybe 1.5sec so you can more easily trip up mobs that are chasing you.

@brunohstein
I only recently got the trait: Power of Inertia and I am quite amazed as its uptime. Because of how I usually begin combat (with 3 quick dodges and 3 quick DBs) I also get 3 stacks of Might, which greatly increase my damage for the remainder of the fight.

My traits provide me might whenever I use a venom skill too, so I am constantly with 2-3 stacks of might.

I also agree that the caltrops dropped when you dodge could last longer.

So you use a Venom/Bleed build?

Just today I was thinking of trying something like that out. Afterall, I already stack a bunch of Condition Damage, why not try and toss in some Poison at the same time!

Care to share your build with me?

Of course, here it is: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAoYVlcmKPHay7E+5EhniviWtH30mtsTxV1KA

As I was waiting for your reply I started to put together a build for this … oddly enough we have almost the exact same choices!

The only differences would be:

Elite Skill: Dagger Storm: I understand the AoE bleed damage is significant, but I heard that Thieves Guild does a bit more, but on a longer cooldown, they can also act as canon fodder if you need them too.

Deadly Arts 3rd Major skill: You choose the +5% dagger damage, while I agree this is a good choice, what are your thoughts on the trait: Residual Venoms as a replacement? Seems to me like the extra stack of poison might be worthwhile.

20 point trait Trickster: The 20% reduction in Trick cooldowns is very nice, but what are your thoughts on the trait Fluid Strikes instead? With how much we dodge roll around we would very rarely be at full endurance, which would give us a solid 10% increase in damage.

Thanks for sharing

Kindread.9481:

brunohstein.9038:

Kindread.9481:

brunohstein.9038:

Kindread.9481:

Ah good, I see we are on the same page then.

I have not done any PvP yet, and focus almost exclusively on PvE. I also find the 0.8sec duration to be just fine the way I use it, but it would be nice to have it extended to maybe 1.5sec so you can more easily trip up mobs that are chasing you.

@brunohstein
I only recently got the trait: Power of Inertia and I am quite amazed as its uptime. Because of how I usually begin combat (with 3 quick dodges and 3 quick DBs) I also get 3 stacks of Might, which greatly increase my damage for the remainder of the fight.

My traits provide me might whenever I use a venom skill too, so I am constantly with 2-3 stacks of might.

I also agree that the caltrops dropped when you dodge could last longer.

So you use a Venom/Bleed build?

Just today I was thinking of trying something like that out. Afterall, I already stack a bunch of Condition Damage, why not try and toss in some Poison at the same time!

Care to share your build with me?

Of course, here it is: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAoYVlcmKPHay7E+5EhniviWtH30mtsTxV1KA

As I was waiting for your reply I started to put together a build for this … oddly enough we have almost the exact same choices!

The only differences would be:

Elite Skill: Dagger Storm: I understand the AoE bleed damage is significant, but I heard that Thieves Guild does a bit more, but on a longer cooldown, they can also act as canon fodder if you need them too.

Deadly Arts 3rd Major skill: You choose the +5% dagger damage, while I agree this is a good choice, what are your thoughts on the trait: Residual Venoms as a replacement? Seems to me like the extra stack of poison might be worthwhile.

20 point trait Trickster: The 20% reduction in Trick cooldowns is very nice, but what are your thoughts on the trait Fluid Strikes instead? With how much we dodge roll around we would very rarely be at full endurance, which would give us a solid 10% increase in damage.

Thanks for sharing

I went for Dagger Storm because of the AoE bleed damage and the cripple it applies to the enemies. But Thieves Guild is a good choice too.

I’m really not sure about the +5% dagger damage. I have chosen it to try to get a little more damage without relying on conditions, but I don’t know if it helps much. I have already tried Residual Venoms but I am not sure how much difference that last strike actually does in the end. The Panic Strike is a good option there too, I will try it.

I think the 20% reduction in Tricks cooldowns is a must. Caltrops is the way to go all the time for a condition damage based build.

brunohstein.9038:

I’m really not sure about the +5% dagger damage. I have chosen it to try to get a little more damage without relying on conditions, but I don’t know if it helps much. I have already tried Residual Venoms but I am not sure how much difference that last strike actually does in the end. The Panic Strike is a good option there too, I will try it.

I like the idea of increasing our physical damage output a bit. The way I understood Residual Venoms (and I may be wrong here) is that the extra attack will add 1 stack of Poison to your target.

This will effectively extend your poison damage on the target by 6 seconds. Depending on your traits you could keep the poison damage up indefinetly. Though according to my math the poison effect, as it only stacks duration, and not intensity, will only add about 189 damage/sec for the duration of a single stack. So assuming my math is correct, with 1000 Condition Damage, Residual Venoms will add about 189 DPS, or 1,134 damage per use of the skill Spider Venom (every 36 seconds with the 20% reduction to cooldown trait).

The additional 5% dagger damage is constant. So to compare the damage with Residual Venom we will take a look at the amount of damage you can do with just your dagger attacks over a 36 second period.

I’ll have to test that out tonight when I get home!

IMO, it’s essential for condition builds, especially P/D. Most people tend to think P/D condition thieves can survive without it due to the fact that they’re ranged, however a huge part of condition thief using P/D is cloak and dagger. After using CnD(up close, of course), dodge in stealth placing caldrops, so when you pop out for the unload, you get extra stacks of bleed and a crippled opponent who cannot catch up to you.

It’s great for running away when low on health to reset the fight. It’s even better when a warrior is chasing you as they have so little condition removal.

Uncatchable is nice, but it is hardly a must have, imo. Thrill of the crime is also pretty sweet, as is bountiful theft. Really depends on the situation, if I am facing a lot of great sword face rollers I typically switch to uncatchable.

Niim.9260:

Uncatchable is nice, but it is hardly a must have, imo. Thrill of the crime is also pretty sweet, as is bountiful theft. Really depends on the situation, if I am facing a lot of great sword face rollers I typically switch to uncatchable.

I wouldn’t call it a “must have” unless you’re already running a build that has a lot of synergy with it. Signet of Malice + heavy Acrobatics + dodge food, to me, makes Uncatchable a “must have”, since you’re dodging so much, building Might stacks that help caltrop damage, and healing every time someone stands in caltrop field(s).

It seems to cover a significantly smaller area than the caltrops ability. I would say the radius is about 100 or less.

Kindread.9481:

Toversletje.9345:

i can do 25 stacks of bleeding sometimes and i dont use any caltrops for that ive had times when i could do even more stacks but it just wont go higher than 25 :p

I would love to hear how you accomplish this!

I have a pretty hard time getting up into the 20 stack range and that is with the trait: Uncatchable, and the skill: Caltrops.

Burst damage on a stationary mob I can pretty easily reach 21-22 and maintain it for a few seconds, then keep it steady in the teens. I would love to hear how you do this!

the way I do it:
20 points in deadly arts to get VII Improvisation and condition duration
20 points in critical strikes to get VIII Signet Use
15 points in trickery for Preparedness

you can spend the rest of the points as you like, i prefer 30 deadly arts just for the condition duration. I have a full exotic set named: Reyna’s with superior rune of the grove. the sigils that im using are Agony and Corruption.

hope this helped

anyway lets keep talking on the trait uncatchable since thats what its about here :p