Guild Wars 2

Hi, despite the ‘nerfs’ (yes I can see where this update hurt SA traitline procs, etc/static rotations) I feel thief is still a completely viable and versatile class. With that in mind, and all the constant squabbling and complaining throughout this (and all MMO forums), let us get some constructive and helpful posts here to assist our fabulous community (for the most part).

I felt we should talk about traits. Most classes have a lot of lackluster options and we are no different (as lackluster is a matter of opinion). We as thieves however have a few things going for us – variety. Surely there is always going to be a 25/30/x/x/x variant backstab build that everyone complains about not being able to counter (and then the next post someone says they are pie). Or the infamous “unicorn” d/d condition build. d/p Permastealth? How about S/D mugger? Point is, we thieves have many options open to us that are all very viable and contextually useful (as it should be, no one spec to rule them all).

As a new thief you might become discouraged by all the people sitting around ranting about thief being broken, or OP, or UP. As a new thief, it will be you who has to decide what you are going to be.

But to my original idea – a thread about traits. Let’s discuss them and figure out what they do and how they will interact with a thief and their experience in game.

Throughout the lines we’ll have minor and major traits. Minor traits are gained at 5/15/25 points in the trees can not be changed and are always active with that many points in the tree(barring an internal cooldowns), and majors are at the 10/20/30 point locations and can be changed for a few different things depending on how deep you’ve gone into the tree.

Deadly Arts:
This line will improve your Power and Condition Duration. Power will affect your direct damage aspect of skills, and generally is not a wasted stat. Condition Duration will affect everything from a simple bleed, to confusion you applied through a combo field.

Minor Traits:
Serpent’s Touch: Stealing applies poison for 10 seconds
For some builds steal is utilized only as a gap closer, or a guaranteed hit on a close range skill. Other builds use it for burst, some use it for interrupts, and some use it for the poison application – if you can’t stop the heal – make it less effective. It’s a nice addition to steal for 5 points, early on the +50 power is probably even more useful.

Lotus Poison: Weaken’s targets for 3s whenever you poison them
Weakness is a condition and as such is going to be affected by however much % condition duration you have from Deadly Arts. It is also one of the more useful conditions in PvE, and is always a reduction in incoming damage no matter the setting. You can keep up permanent weakness with this one single or multiple targets(Dagger auto attack chain has a poison on one of the strikes, Shortbow has a poison field – which can be blasted for area weakness as well, and you have venoms)

Exposed Weakness: Deal 10% more damage to targets with a condition on them
With many of your autoattacks, and a slew of other skills, and players most likely – conditions will be readily available to make use of this great talent. If you are this deep in the tree, 10% more damage is no joke!
(Flat % increases like this do not work for condition damage).

Major Traits:
Back Fighting: +50% damage when downed.
With Full zerker gear, and a high power/precision/critdamage build, this is actually very strong, provided you go down. That’s not what we want though and there are other many useful choices in the tree. If you find yourself going down a great deal though, and are often close to rallying but can’t quite get there, this one will do it for you. I still don’t recommend it – other things can be changed before this to succeed most likely.

Corrosive Traps: Traps apply 5 stacks of vulnerability when triggered.
5% more damage(Vulnerability is 1% incoming damage a stack). If you use traps and have a great deal of people around often, great. Otherwise there are better choices, plus you don’t catch a lot of trap heavy builds (but have seen them!).

Mug: Deal damage when stealing.
This is by far and away, one of the best 10 point traits in the game if not THE best. It’s not weak, can be stupid strong lined up with rest of a spec’s burst sequence and correct circumstances; this is often used by most builds with 10 in this tree.
Venomous Strength: When applied, venoms grant 2 stacks of might for 20 seconds.
For a venom share build, or a venom heavy build this is great. Might(at 80) is always 35 power and condition damage a stack. (for reference, a 25 stack is +875 power / condition damage). With Venom share, those mights are going to whoever got your poison shares too. They also get the might with any +boon duration you may have(30% boon duration will give you 26seconds and so forth). For other builds just using venoms, this can be used to increase your burst (chances are you are lining it up so that you are immobilizing them, and maybe poisoning them (with the venoms – two activates, +4might, or petrifying them, immobilizing when it’s done, and poisoning +6might).

Potent Poison: +33% poison durations.
If you have a 3 second poison, it’s now a 4 second. That may not seem like much, but remember, poison stacks duration, not intensity. It might not get any stronger the longer they are in that poison, but unless they cleanse it, all heals are going to be 33% less effective, and it’s not terribly weak as a damaging condition (especially if boosted by condition damage). It’s also useful and ties in well with the +condition duration bonus from the line to begin with.

Sundering Strikes: 40% chance to cause 1 stack of Vulnerability for 5 seconds on a critical hit.
It’s not necessarily bad, but I personally feel there are better options. Though if you are in a steady team, Thief does have some of the best access to vulnerability and poison, making the incoming damage and ability to mitigate it a problem for a lot of people. You would have to outweigh what you gain from other choices versus what yourself and the rest of your team will gain from you being able to keep vulnerability up on your targets. Also, out of all the conditions, this is probably the best one for a cover option in my opinion. No utility aside from + incoming damage. You might have other, easier access to a cover option than a chance from a crit most likely.

Unfortunately Deadly Art’s is all the time I have to cover today. I will get back for the rest as I can. Hopefully we can get some useful conversations going on about the Thief… Without getting merged into that gameplay thread. Or without devolving into “Revealed change has crippled me too much, and I can’t adapt! Woe is me! The White Mantle…” oops, wrong part…

Remember, we’re just having fun!

I contend to this day that Potent Poison is an absolutely horrendous trait.
If you use D/ or Shortbow, you get all the poison you need honestly from an auto attack, Kleptomaniac or Choking gas.
If you use a S/ or P/ your options are kleptomaniac, Needle trap or spider venom. There is also the weapon sigil for poison but w/e.
Anyways basically on one end the poison application for thieves is very high, and on the other end it is very niche. Regardless extending poison by 33% does very little for you as a thief because it is so easily applied relatively speaking.

Sundering Strikes is another problematic trait because it’s based on criticals. If it was just a 40% chance I’d root for it more, but I think it’s rather alienating and almost encourages you not to take it.

Sundering Strikes is incredibly underwhelming. When Warriors have the option to get a stack of Might for EVERY SINGLE CRIT on a Greatsword, WITH NO INTERNAL COOLDOWN, the least we can get is a guaranteed stack of Vulnerability on a crit.

Lotus poison is worth talking about some more. Serpent’s Touch and Lotus Poison is an instant combo. Add mug and you have damage + posion + weakness + shadowstep + bundle from stealing. Lotus poison makes skale venom somewhat redundant since you can always use a poison venom instead.

ensoriki.5789:

I contend to this day that Potent Poison is an absolutely horrendous trait.
If you use D/ or Shortbow, you get all the poison you need honestly from an auto attack, Kleptomaniac or Choking gas.
If you use a S/ or P/ your options are kleptomaniac, Needle trap or spider venom. There is also the weapon sigil for poison but w/e.
Anyways basically on one end the poison application for thieves is very high, and on the other end it is very niche. Regardless extending poison by 33% does very little for you as a thief because it is so easily applied relatively speaking.

Sundering Strikes is another problematic trait because it’s based on criticals. If it was just a 40% chance I’d root for it more, but I think it’s rather alienating and almost encourages you not to take it.

S/D+(not SB, or D/x) can make use of it. 10/30/30, with sword, Mug is burst, can be a gap closer, but mostly it’s your burst. The venom will help for classes that use bunches of smaller heals, as you can normally interrupt the larger ones through tac strike. I will go with there are better options, myself.

I agree, Sundering Strikes is very underwhelming, especially when compared to some other traits in similar positions(of other classes). But hey, we have what we have, we have a suggestions forum. Making of use of what we have is all we can do until something is changed. Sundering strikes has the benefit of being RNG, which is also it’s drawback. If you don’t want poison removed, a sundering strike proc can keep it there just a moment longer (or blow their removal CD, and then not be able to touch the poison at all!).

I am a large fan of lotus poison. There isn’t a situation where I don’t want weakness on an enemy. We do have copious amounts of access to poison, vuln, and weakness (and to an extent, cripple). It just synergizes well with most any build that deep in Deadly Arts.

I must apologize, I didn’t even get to 30 point traits.

Panic Strike: When you strike a target with less than 50% health, they are immobilized for 4 seconds.

I feel it’s very lackluster with the minute long cooldown (I believe this for most of the ICD’s on most classes traits of this nature, especially ours! :P), immobilize is a godsend for anyone trying to focus something down, but I just can’t get past the CD, and again, there are better options in my opinion. I even like the fury at 50% in Critical Strikes more. I’d like to see the cooldown on this go 35-45 seconds, then I might buy into it a little more.

Residual Venoms: Applied venoms last one extra strike.

Again, this will apply to anyone you affected with venomous aura (a 30 point in Shadow Arts). It’s very dandy spamming immobilizes on an ele with 4 people stopping those RTL, aura, LF, (water), aura, (fire), burning speeds. Over extension hurts – make them pay for it (my best skill! over extending!)! Unless you are going venomshare/leeching venoms, this is really niche use in my opinion, and with leeching venoms I feel it’s almost mandatory (along with spider venom utility, in that case).

This puts you at the disadvantage of having all your spec in power/toughness/healing/condition duration, with a paltry 10 points to place elsewhere. I enjoy the spec, but unless you maximize on vitality gear you end up with below par health pool, in my opinon.
You support well, and you can hurt things, but you need even more support yourself if anyone noticed what you’re about. One called target, and you are probably done unless you are crafty slipping out of immob’s in this spec (which I will give it has a few, but still, you aren’t hard to focus down. In any spec. Ever.).

I kind of like Potent Poison with Lotus Poison. Consistent reapplication of poison with D/X is great as it reduces incoming damage for you and healing for your opponent. It’s also tough to cleanse as you can just keep reapplying.