Guild Wars 2

I’ve seen 0/0/30/20/20 frequently listed as a P/D spec for WvW, but I’m having a difficult time finding any links to a build and/or what traits are suggested.

I am very new to thief and to PvP in general. I realize traits that I think look great on the surface might not be and vice versa, so I’m deferring to the knowledge and experience of the thief community rather than just making assumptions.

Can anyone help me with what traits I should get for this build? Thanks.

10 (mug)
0
30 (condi removal , aoe blind, regen on stealth)
0
30(long reach, ricochet or bountiful theft , sleight of hand)

you def want sleight as it really does give about 6k dmg in the sense it interupts heals or rupts dmg to you or stops d/p from entering stealth (HUGE here bc then they wasted 6 init!!) but also increases DPS and HPS (healing) bc its every 20 secs.

full carrion

i run p/d p/d 50% energy on swap 1 sigil 15% paralyzer 1 sigil 10 corruption

enjoy! ive played with p/d on and off for 7-8 months so this is def the best overall build i played/came up with .

UTILS:

Zerg/group play : HIS,SS,Shad ref, Blind powder, Daggerstorm

Duel: HIS,scorp wire, Shadow ref(heals on sneak attack),blind powd, thieves guild.

To actually answer the OP’s question… use either lose condition on stealth or blind on stealth (it’s a judgement call), then use 2 init on stealth, then shadow rejuvenation. In acro you want 2 init every 10 seconds and the other option is preference as well. Might on dodge, vigor on heal, move faster in stealth are all good. In trickery you can choose a long range steal, caltrops on dodge, or even thrill of the crime. The last trait would probably be bountiful thief.

There are a lot of options with that build. Personally though, a similiar (but better) build is 5/0/30/20/15. This let’s you get +100% bleed duration (8 second bleeds). Runes should be 2 krait, 2 centaur, 2 afflicted, rare veggie pizza for food, and sigil of agony on 1 weapon. +45 from runes, +5 from traits, +10 from sigil, and +40 from food.

Hope this helps

Edit.. search on youtube for wild bill. I don’t think things have changed much for p/d since he popularized it.

Hey, I rolled a thief months ago and built him Crit but never really enjoyed it. I recently dusted him off and got him full carrion and have been really enjoying the p/d playstyle. Learning to CnD consistently is a challenge for sure.

These replies have been very helpful to me. I’ve tried Wild bills build from his latest video and also the 5-0-30-20-15.

Currently I’m trying 5-0-30-15-20.

Please keep replies incoming to this thread if people have more p/d suggestions.

I use carrion weapons with 2 superior sigils of agony.
Carrion armour – 2 centaur, 2 krait, 2 afflicted
Apothecary Jewelry

rare veggie pizza and master tuning crystals

30 Shadow Arts
infusion of shadow
shadows embrace
shadows rejuvenation

20 acrobatics
fleet of shadow
pain response

20 trickery
Caltrops
Ricochet

Utilities are Signet of malice, caltrops, blinding powder, smoke screen/skale venom and elite is dagger storm

I use carrion gear (mostly) as well with undead runes.
30 SA – heal on stealth, regen on stealth, lose conditions on stealth
20 acro – might on dodge, 2 init every 10 seconds
20 trickery – frenzy+swiftness on steal, caltrops on dodge

I use signet of malice for my heal as well as blinding powder, signet of infiltration, and caltrops or shadow refuge with daggerstorm as my elite.

shortbow is my other weapon – which makes it easy to join zergs.

The difference with my version vs others is lots of passive healing while in stealth and while attacking – I almost never use signet of malice for the active. Instead, when I need to heal, I cloak and dagger off of something…there are plenty of targets in wvw.

It also has good initiative regen. So you can do this combo: 5-dodge(caltrops)-1-3-steal (gain initiative)-3-infiltrator signet-3. You wind up with 7-9 bleeds, 6 torments, cripple and enough initiative for a cloak and dagger.

What this build is weak at vs other P/D builds is cover conditions, instead it rellies on wearing the opponent down – assuming their condi-clears can’t keep up with your condition application.

bobross, yea, the passive healing from signet of malice and 30 in shadow arts is pretty much a must with this build in my opinion. I love it and would be hard pressed to go back to using hide in shadows.

I just used build editor to see what your build would look like because I had no idea what the undead runes were..gotta tell you I’m quite interested. gonna save some money for a second armour set with the undead runes for sure, thanks for posting that

^yeah – undead are a solid and cheap choice. The other good choice in a condi build is 2x Lyssa, 2x Mad king and 2x whatever (major lyssa works). That gives an extra 27% condi-duration, which goes well with giver’s weapons. Those are more expensive tho.

Hype.8032:

To actually answer the OP’s question… use either lose condition on stealth or blind on stealth (it’s a judgement call), then use 2 init on stealth, then shadow rejuvenation. In acro you want 2 init every 10 seconds and the other option is preference as well. Might on dodge, vigor on heal, move faster in stealth are all good. In trickery you can choose a long range steal, caltrops on dodge, or even thrill of the crime. The last trait would probably be bountiful thief.

There are a lot of options with that build. Personally though, a similiar (but better) build is 5/0/30/20/15. This let’s you get +100% bleed duration (8 second bleeds). Runes should be 2 krait, 2 centaur, 2 afflicted, rare veggie pizza for food, and sigil of agony on 1 weapon. +45 from runes, +5 from traits, +10 from sigil, and +40 from food.

Hope this helps

Edit.. search on youtube for wild bill. I don’t think things have changed much for p/d since he popularized it.

he is right about the runes/food etc. but you dont NEED to have 100% bleed….. i run like 95% extra bleed with 40%(pizza)10%(trait)45%(runes) and its amazing bc i lose the extra 5% for an extra 9k heal per minute….an extra 6 seconds of stun per min (3x) 6 free boons per min…..3x vigor per minute…..and alot more condi dmg. its actually quite a large hit to other utilities/bonuses to go for the traitline u said.

NEVER LOSE CONDI removal and AOE blind on this build! HORRIBLE suggestion. that aoe blind is going to cut incoming dmg by 30% easily. and condi removal? this is almost like another 30% or so. when you have heal in stealth….plus condi removal …and aoe blinds…you dont really need to run any toughness. this allows you to focus on offense. ive never once needed to get extra init with this build….only skill ur using is CND….and sometimes shadowstrike. i have 15 init to start with. thats 3 CNDs …actually 4 if i use Steal(+3) then regular init regen ……im golden. never needed a boost.

Thanks for the replies everyone! It looks like I’ll be needing to play around with this build to see what suits my playstyle best since there are so many different suggestions for traits, utilities, and gear.

Please keep posting though, I’m sure to have a lot more questions once I begin field testing.

Would be more than happy to help lane, I’m also relatively new to all of this but think I got some things figured out. Remember you can always go to the heart of the mists and toy around with traits and gear, its all free so why not? , have a couple hot join games and get the feel for how something like this would work.

good luck

I’m actually trying the 10-0-30-0-30 spec right now.

It’s really hard to give up the endurance regen and the swiftness on dodge but im going to try this for a couple nights and see how it goes.

The Dot’s are hitting harder which is nice. I’m actually going to go for runes of the nightmare on this set for the 190 cond and the +10% duration. That will give me 20% before food and give Torment 8 seconds for Skale venom and Shadow strike. With Bleed sigils my bleeds will still hit 6 seconds but they’ll hit much harder.

What i’ve been doing is using skale venom and Shadow strik when the target is at half health and that essentially “bursts” them down.

I got to say that Daze on steal is really nice.

Godmoney.2048:

I’m actually trying the 10-0-30-0-30 spec right now.

It’s really hard to give up the endurance regen and the swiftness on dodge but im going to try this for a couple nights and see how it goes.

The Dot’s are hitting harder which is nice. I’m actually going to go for runes of the nightmare on this set for the 190 cond and the +10% duration. That will give me 20% before food and give Torment 8 seconds for Skale venom and Shadow strike. With Bleed sigils my bleeds will still hit 6 seconds but they’ll hit much harder.

What i’ve been doing is using skale venom and Shadow strik when the target is at half health and that essentially “bursts” them down.

I got to say that Daze on steal is really nice.

this is what i use…… i use 50% engery and use p/d p/d so i can switch in battle and still keep up on engery. its SO def worth the stun every 20 secs….2 sec stun is amazing. blocks those big heals your opponent does….m mmm mmm

Travlane.5948:

Godmoney.2048:

I’m actually trying the 10-0-30-0-30 spec right now.

It’s really hard to give up the endurance regen and the swiftness on dodge but im going to try this for a couple nights and see how it goes.

The Dot’s are hitting harder which is nice. I’m actually going to go for runes of the nightmare on this set for the 190 cond and the +10% duration. That will give me 20% before food and give Torment 8 seconds for Skale venom and Shadow strike. With Bleed sigils my bleeds will still hit 6 seconds but they’ll hit much harder.

What i’ve been doing is using skale venom and Shadow strik when the target is at half health and that essentially “bursts” them down.

I got to say that Daze on steal is really nice.

this is what i use…… i use 50% engery and use p/d p/d so i can switch in battle and still keep up on engery. its SO def worth the stun every 20 secs….2 sec stun is amazing. blocks those big heals your opponent does….m mmm mmm

So…….this build is pretty fricking sweet once you get over the fact that you have no swiftness on dodge.

Here’s what I did

Full 5/6 nightmare runes 1 rune of Afflicted This puts me at 1700 cond damage with pizza and tuning crystal

I’m using the 10-0-30-0-30 with the traits that give boons.

Hide in shadows. Signet of shadows, Skale venom (that’s your burst), Shadow step ( or whatever you want)

P/D x2 with energy sigils

The whole trick to this build is Shadow strike Shadow strike, then Shadow strike again. My torment is lasting 8 seconds, so it’s very easy to get 5-7 stacks. That along with a healthy 8 stack of bleeding and people are dropping.

I’m really enjoying the short CD on steal. It actually feels like a class mechanic now the way my mesmers shatters feel.

panicbutton.1053:

I’m starting to enjoy p/d more and more. Tried going back to the melee builds and it was just not as fun

Having problems with two builds in WvW… The d/p thief and p/shield engineers. How do you guys drop either of these two classes?

The d/p thief takes advantage of dodging a lot and then cleanses any conditions on him in stealth. I had a 7min+ fight with a d/p thief yesterday because we kept healing out of everything we put out. One lucky b.venom and he chained some crits to burn down my 20k hp

The p/shield engineer seems to be anti p/d in every way possible. I may have run into a rare case but the fight eventually lead to him just standing in one place. Between 8 second bleeds and stacking 25 corruption, he would dodge/block most shots and let his turrets do the rest. Granted he couldn’t kill me either, it still made me crave more damage…

That’s why I think going for the 100% bleed damage is a mistake. I have only a couple hundred hours on thief but over 1500 on my mesmer much of which has been condi builds.

The thing I’ve learned is that i’d rather have condi’kitten hard and fast than long and slow. Not using condi runes you’re giving 150 damage plus many of these thief builds don’t go into the condi tree much leaving builds with only 1200 or so condi before food.

My mesmer on the other hand can get 1875 condi without using condi runes.

That 10-0-30-0-30 build really does seem to be the way to go. That build puts my condi at 1470 before food and 1676 after food which makes my torment hit like a truck.

Once I pop skale venom with a good solid unload then I steal and pistol 3, dodge towards them, pistol 3 again. Now they melt.

Imo runes of the nightmare 5/6 and any other random superior condi rune is the way to go. Torment is what people should be trying to lengthen. In wvw with food torment is a solid 8 seconds.

This is the build I run(add 250 condition damage to total, it doesn’t translate with link: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/thief/?7.0|a.1m.h9.8.1m.h1i|a.1m.h1i.8.1m.h9|1h.714.1b.714.1h.714.1h.714.1b.714.1b.711|2x.0.2x.0.3x.0.2x.0.3x.0.2w.0|f3.0.u346.f2.a3|30.d|0.0.0.0.0|e

1680 condition damage
100% bleed duration, 75% Condition duration

If I may, I’ve played P/D since shortly after release and switched from my old 10/0/30/15/15 build to the 10/0/30/0/30 build after the steal changes. This build is amazing and you can wipe the floor against almost anyone 1v1; that being said, P/D is all about drawing out the fight by wearing down your opponent. Unless they are afk or have 0 condition removers, you’re going to have to worry about sustain. I would highly recommend grabbing the condition removal in stealth as opposed to the init regen. Filling out the trickery tree gives you 3 extra base init and with a 21 second steal that restores init you should be more than ok under normal circumstances. The only time itll be a problem is if you repeatedly whiff CnD. I’d recommend taking Roll for initiative, since it covers most of P/D’s weaknesses: it’s a stunbreak, it’ll save your kitten if you get immobilized, and it can refill your initiative if your CnD fails without having to rely on stealth.

Also, I’d recommend thrill of the crime instead of instinct response. 90% of the time you should be using a CnD>steal combo to teleport to your target and stealth so the stealth on steal is actually redundant. I’d even say it’s bad for P/D, since the CnD>steal>sneak attack combo is the only combo we have resembling a “burst” attack. If the steal stealths you, you won’t be able to use CnD without revealing yourself so you lose the extra damage from that along with the vulnerability that buffs your following sneak attack. Thrill of the crime gives you 15 seconds of vigor every 21 seconds which allows you to dodge more, increasing your survivability out of stealth and letting you drop more caltrops. It also strips boons, which is VERY good when fighting tankier foes (i.e. Guardians). Anyways, enjoy the build and I hope this info helps!

Err a few corrections: I meant bountiful theft, not thrill of the crime. Also I mixed up instinct response with the trait that causes your steal to stealth you. My point stands for a different reason though, you’ll often find that stealth from traits like that will auto fire in the middle of your attack. All it accomplishes then is giving you a revealed debuff after you’ve taken a lot of damage, which is exactly when you want to be able to stealth yourself.

Okay, I’ve pieced this together mostly based on Travlane’s input, but also taking into consideration some things others have posted.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c;4Rw-_0I5BPkd06E;9;29-T-T2;335A;156BUNm6C;9C-Fik6s1U-ZT8P-U0Z1d2jZo4A5V0V-7;9;9;9;9;9;9;0V6s5Q

I’ve tried to fill out as much as possible. I wasn’t sure about armor upgrades since some seemed to go with Undead runes and others with Nightmare. Also wasn’t sure about underwater weapon sigils. :P Should I assume Exquisite Chrysocola Jewels for all the accessories? If there’s anything you see I should add or change please let me know. Utilities seem to be subjective for the most part.

Side question: What sigil would you suggest for a short bow in a zerg setting?

Lastly, this build came highly suggested to me if anyone wants to take a look at it, it’s 0/0/30/20/20:

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/thief#10|3|2632|3997|2645|2788|4989|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|30|2198|2199|751|20|2353|1168|0|20|782|2200|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|0|

long reach IS optional although i find it to be almost OP but not quite. most players think they have you out of their range then BOOM 1500 instant 2 sec stun CND and sneak attack….out of nowhere? espeically good against thieves and d/p who think they can get away for a moment to heal up. you rupt them right after BPS…they are in a WORLD of hurt also long reach allows you to port up stuff bc the distance is longer

Does the +10% condition duration on Nightmare runes provide a significant difference? I don’t run dungeons much, so Undead runes would be much easier for me to obtain. Also, would you go for 6/6 Undead or something else? 5% Toughness→Condition Damage should be around +60 condition damage.

I’m also struggling a bit trying to find a good ‘rotation’ for P/D. I guess it takes some getting used to, but I feel like I’m using stuff when I shouldn’t and not using it when I should. :P Other thieves are still such a royal pain too.

Lane.3410:

Does the +10% condition duration on Nightmare runes provide a significant difference? I don’t run dungeons much, so Undead runes would be much easier for me to obtain. Also, would you go for 6/6 Undead or something else? 5% Toughness->Condition Damage should be around +60 condition damage.

I’m also struggling a bit trying to find a good ‘rotation’ for P/D. I guess it takes some getting used to, but I feel like I’m using stuff when I shouldn’t and not using it when I should. :P Other thieves are still such a royal pain too.

Ill try make a new video and give you a rough idea. i use 2 krait 2 centaur 2 afflicted runes bc 90% of the builds dont have heavy condi removal. and even those that do you have a few tricks to deal with them. for now if ur still learning it just do the 5 1 5 1 combo until you learn your dodge rolls and how to get CND to hit almost everytime. CND is really the trick to the build. if u can time that right you can make it work really well.

theres 2 ways of playing this also. aggressive and relaxed. you can fire sneak shot soon as you get into steath which would give you 1 extra rotation per ten seconds. or wait in stealth while it does dmg and lose 1 rotation per 10 seconds. i prefer aggressive most of the time. few scenarios you will obv be slower/smarter but i like the aggressive way.

Travlane.5948:

long reach IS optional although i find it to be almost OP but not quite. most players think they have you out of their range then BOOM 1500 instant 2 sec stun CND and sneak attack….out of nowhere? espeically good against thieves and d/p who think they can get away for a moment to heal up. you rupt them right after BPS…they are in a WORLD of hurt also long reach allows you to port up stuff bc the distance is longer

regarding WvW…..

I have been confused about the 1s Daze on Steal (Sleight of Hand) and maybe you experienced thieves can help explain it to me.

Daze says it interrupts and stops skill use, but not ‘stops movement’ like Stun.

When I use SoH against say a guard or a dolyak or a raptor it does stop their movement and I see swirly pink tweety-birds. I see this reliably, all the time.

However, when I use SoH on another player…. it does not stop their movement at all and only sometimes do I see the swirly pink tweety-birds. This is especially obvious when chasing someone down – they just keep running.

This makes landing the CnD spotty at best (for me), even if I pre-load it before I steal. Especially if they are running to my right and away from the left handed swipe of the dagger.

Travalene -

And since Daze is not a “condition” and isn’t affected by condition duration, how do you get a 2s Daze? I see mesmer runes 33% daze or sigil of para 15% stun, but how are you getting 2s? Do those stack or am I missing something else?

thanks in advance for any replies

i use sigil of paralyzation 15% longer …but rounds up to the nearest whole integer. so 2 secs total.

idk why daze does that. i think if u actually rupt a skill…they are stuck…if they are NOT using a skill they are free to move. just my guess but i ahve noticed this too.

save it for their heals

Alright, I think I’ve figured out what the problem is. I am almost never in a 1v1 situation. :P The only players who either 1) stay to fight me or 2) come after me are other thieves.

What usually ends up happening is I’m against 3-4 other players, I panic, and I die. It’s making me feel like the worst player ever. Maybe I should have started with a more familiar class and not my most recent alt. :\

panicbutton.1053:

I think a common misconception when playing a thief is that being a GOOD thief is easy. It takes practice, anticipation, and knowing what other classes are capable of. With a mix of those three you will know exactly when to pull everything off and even how to handle groups of people. Trip once on one of your skills or even dare to miss a CnD and you’re going to be at a disadvantage.

What’s funny is I noticed that d/p thieves like to pick on me too. It may come from a natural curiosity of seeing a different build in action. Unlike them, with our high toughness and hp we are a little harder to take on. IMO flash powder is a necessity against other thieves, as well as perfectly timed confusing dodges(rolling behind them as they open a backstab on you, all the while dropping your passive caltrops).

this msg goes to lane too. if ur using the exact build i specified than d/p should be easy to beat. the only problem is ur prolly using the zerg verions of this which is daggerstorm and shadowstep. when im 1v1ing i use scorp wire and thieves guild. then see how easy d/p is

@lane pick your battles too. you dont have to fight everyone of them. there is not pride loss in losing a 5 v 1. ur supposed to lose that. ur also SUPPOSED to lose 2 v 1s …but u will eventually get good enough to win some 2 v 1s give it time. dont read all the thief hate on here like its an easy class to play. couldnt be farther from the truth. we have a high reward but also a small tiny threshold for mistake room.