Guild Wars 2

Because we have OP stealth and permanent evades!

I’ll start:

Guarded Initiation (Thief)

Remove conditions when striking an enemy while your health is above the threshold.

Health Threshold: 90%
Vulnerability: 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
Weakness: -50% Endurance Regeneration, 50% Fumble (Unrestricted)
Slow: Skills and actions are slower.
Conditions Removed: 1

VERSUS

Diamond Skin (Lel-ementalist)

Conditions cannot be applied to you when your health is above the threshold.

Health Threshold: 90%

I play thief, but I also play ele (my two mains), and the road goes both ways to some extent:

Ferocious Winds (ele)
Gain Ferocity Based on a Percentage of Precision: 7%

Practiced Tolerance (thief)
Gain Ferocity Based on a Percentage of Precision: 10%

reikken.4961:

Ferocious Winds (ele)
Gain Ferocity Based on a Percentage of Precision: 7%

Practiced Tolerance (thief)
Gain Ferocity Based on a Percentage of Precision: 10%

Just did a little math and if you play full assassin (well not back/rings/amulet) it makes a dashing difference of almost 5% critical damage.

Joke aside the comparison between those two examples isn’t even remotely eqivalent.

Both comparisons are for traits in different tiers and thus make no sense, but more importantly Diamond Skin is just silly anyway. Nobody should have a trait like that, and I’d rather not Thief get one like it. It’s just poor design.

Eh.

I’d rather not reflect on how other classes have more comfortable traits, because we have some good ones too, and just pointing at X class and saying “hay, he has it better” is missing the point.

Don’t know about better, but every time my ‘master of speed and stealth’ Thief main (who happens to mostly use vanilla P/P) sees members of the other classes, who aren’t supposed to be ‘masters of speed and stealth’ being stealthy and moving faster, or as fast but with far lower opportunity cost, she thinks, ‘Hmmm, something’s not quite right here…’.

I’m cool with taking the almost complete lack of stealth on the chin, but the speed thing constantly bugs me; especially in view of the double whammy that it’s not bad enough that we have to sacrifice a Utility or Runes to get it, but the Rune choices then rub it in about how sub-par we are across the board.

Boon duration and Condition duration, or Swiftness duration… great… thanks….

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Because we have OP stealth and permanent evades!

I’ll start:

Guarded Initiation (Thief)

Remove conditions when striking an enemy while your health is above the threshold.

Health Threshold: 90%
Vulnerability: 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
Weakness: -50% Endurance Regeneration, 50% Fumble (Unrestricted)
Slow: Skills and actions are slower.
Conditions Removed: 1

VERSUS

Diamond Skin (Lel-ementalist)

Conditions cannot be applied to you when your health is above the threshold.

Health Threshold: 90%

This comparison is disingenuous for multiple reasons.

Comparisons of traits across classes are generally tricky, because you have to acknowledge and agree upon each classes strengths, weaknesses, and design goals. You haven’t done any of that here.

On top of that, you’re comparing it to something in Acro – Acro currently has the appeal of a dumpster fire being put out with baby diarrhea. If it’s not the worst trait line in the game, it’s top 5 without a shadow of a doubt.

On top of that, you’ve picked the absolute worst trait in the dumpster fire trait line. Everyone involved with Guarded initiation (from design, to testing, to approving) should probably have lost their jobs . It’s worse than just having an empty slot, because at least an empty slot isn’t insulting. It’s inclusion shows a very fundamental lack of understanding for both the thief class, and the games basic mechanics in general.

The best one i could find, however it is a skill, not a trait:

Skelk Venom (Thief)
Heal yourself. Your next few attacks heal you.
1 Activation time 40 Recharge time

Initial Self Heal: 4,210 (0.5)?
Healing: 645 (0.2)?
Skelk Venom (30s): Striking an enemy heals you.
Number of Attacks: 5
Venom Duration: 30s

Enchanted Daggers (Revenant)

½ Activation time 5 Energy 30 Recharge time

Summon enchanted daggers which will attack as you attack, siphoning life from targets hit.

Damage Siphon Damage: 858 (0.05)?
Healing Siphon Healing: 808 (0.2)?
Healing Initial Heal: 1,640 (0.25)?
Number of Hits: 6
Duration: 15s
Interval: ½s
Range: 1,200

short: more cooldown no damage. Also remember that rev has 2 healing skills

Auesis.7301:

Both comparisons are for traits in different tiers and thus make no sense, but more importantly Diamond Skin is just silly anyway. Nobody should have a trait like that, and I’d rather not Thief get one like it. It’s just poor design.

People say this but honestly the tier aspect isn’t relevant anymore since we have spec lines, so that’s that. And yeah DS is an quite unbalanced trait on a class that is able to heal itself up quite a lot while having little hp anyway.

UBcktieDL.5318:

The best one i could find, however it is a skill, not a trait:

Skelk Venom (Thief)
Heal yourself. Your next few attacks heal you.
1 Activation time 40 Recharge time

Initial Self Heal: 4,210 (0.5)?
Healing: 645 (0.2)?
Skelk Venom (30s): Striking an enemy heals you.
Number of Attacks: 5
Venom Duration: 30s

Enchanted Daggers (Revenant)

½ Activation time 5 Energy 30 Recharge time

Summon enchanted daggers which will attack as you attack, siphoning life from targets hit.

Damage Siphon Damage: 858 (0.05)?
Healing Siphon Healing: 808 (0.2)?
Healing Initial Heal: 1,640 (0.25)?
Number of Hits: 6
Duration: 15s
Interval: ½s
Range: 1,200

short: more cooldown no damage. Also remember that rev has 2 healing skills

Ridiculous comparison. You do realize that Skelk Venom actually is a venom, right? So there are traits for it. Skelk Venom will hit 6 times traited, give might and does damage with traited life leech. And you can reduce its cooldown down to 32 seconds (not much longer than rev heal anymore) and the biggest one: you can SHARE this venom with the entire party!

In my book, Skelk Venom is the much better skill.

Cyhann.2609:

Auesis.7301:

Both comparisons are for traits in different tiers and thus make no sense, but more importantly Diamond Skin is just silly anyway. Nobody should have a trait like that, and I’d rather not Thief get one like it. It’s just poor design.

People say this but honestly the tier aspect isn’t relevant anymore since we have spec lines, so that’s that. And yeah DS is an quite unbalanced trait on a class that is able to heal itself up quite a lot while having little hp anyway.

People keep saying tiers aren’t relevant anymore, but actually they are. ^^
Grandmaster tier traits are always stronger as master tier traits. Just because we have to choose 1 trait of each tier doesn’t mean there isn’t a gap in strength between this traits.

It’s just natural that a grandmaster trait of one profession is stronger than a master trait of another profession.

So I think there is another room for discussion. I have 2 traits in mind, warrior has a master trait which will give him 3% more damage for each boon attached to the target (Destruction of the Empowered). Meanwhile there is a grandmaster trait in engineer, which will reduce incoming damage per boon by 2%. Actually, the master trait of warriors make the grandmaster trait of engineers useless, which shouldn’t be a thing.

The two best ones I can recall fro the top of my head is, while are not traits, but skills instead:

Signet of Shadow vs Signet of Air (Ele)
-both gives +25% movement speed
-both blinds enemies for 5 seconds around your target for 5 seconds
-Signet of Air deals damage
-Signet of Air has a 25s cd, Sigent of Shadows have a 30s cd.
-Signet of Air is a STUN-BREAKER. Signet of shadow is not.

Scropion Wire vs Magnet (engie)
-Both is a 1200 range pull
-Scorpion wire deals damage
-Scopion Wire bugs out every time it’s used. It either simply knock your foe down without pulling, pull you to your foe instead, or a mix of these effects.
-Magnet is a part of a tool kit, which gives 5 extra skills in a single utility slot.

And also traps. Our traps are laughable compared to Ranger traps, or DH traps.

-Whoops. -Double post-

magnet has a huge cast time, while scorpion wire is pretty fast

but the bug REALLY needs to be fixed