Guild Wars 2

Granted these are just two simple tweaks I thought of while sitting on a wall in WvW watching everyone else participate in massive fights in which I have nothing to contribute.

That is not to say that I advocate both of these tweaks at the same time, probably just one or the other.

Anyways, the main Issue i see with the thief is that it has no role to fill anymore. Its nearly impossible to skirmish in aoe-warfare without passives and stability, and it is also a waste of time an initiative to try and burst through a single target’s passives, blocks, invulns, and armor rating.

So what does the forum think about either of these tweaks?

1. Assassin’s Signet, instead of 15% more damage for 5 attacks, attacks are unblockable for 5 or 6 seconds.

2. Replace one of the never-used traits with one that changes outgoing damage to be inversely proportional to an enemies combined armor rating. (meaning the thief would have to choose before entering combat if thier role is to assassinate heavy or light targets, as using this trait would effectively make it more difficult to spike down “glass” players, and much easier to target only enemy tanks)

Feel free to discuss, I’d be interested to see what people think. (Aside from those false-flag “thieves” who believe that winning 1/30 fights is too much, and that thieves need to be further stripped bare and sat in a corner) I thought they were good suggestions considering that they don’t actually increase or decrease damage, they only change the nature of how it can be applied based on situation.

We already have several roles tho (depending on game mode)

I am refering mostly to a combat role, not so much a decap and run away role.

PvP:
Staff/SB: Decapper, teamfighter, decent 1v1 ability
Staff/DP: Decent Decap ability, teamfighter, great 1v1 ability
DP Pulm: Decapper, Ganker, High Burst

WvW:
Signet 1 Shot: Ganker, Target-Sniper in zergs, Very High Burst
DP Pulm: Ganker, Roamer, High Burst
Staff/DP: Great 1v1er, Roamer, Sustain
DP Bound: Great Burst, Decent 1v1er, Roamer
Venom Share: Team Support, Condi, Stealth

PvE: Self-Explanatory

Minus the whole argument for finding a role for Thief. Your suggestion is actually pretty interesting to propose.

Assassin Signet: I’m not sure if it was fixed or not, but the passive did more damage than the active at one point in time, or maybe even currently. Will need to check. But changing the pointless 5 increased damage attacks to Unblockables. Now that would allow for more build diversity, It would reduce evasion spam, and more theory-crafting would be involved. I actually really like that idea. But instead of 5 attacks(Since Thief A.A is fast), maybe 2 or 3. I think that is a good trade-off due to the active remaining increased power.

And in terms of the unused traits. You’d have to specify which tree line. Because that would be a pretty interesting to see where you’d put that.

No lie, triple unblockable attack signet D/D would be kinda crazy OP if given that change to AS.

DeceiverX.8361:

No lie, triple unblockable attack signet D/D would be kinda crazy OP if given that change to AS.

Warriors and DH’s are OP as it is. I hate bringing other classes in Thief thread in comparison, but they’re able to have unblockables (Signet of Might in conjunction with Killshot, Gunflame, or Literally anything) Vs. a Thief Using Bandits Defense with no Evasion frame available, or DH with their Test of Faith trap, or spear of justice that can inflict an intense burning sensation in my No-no area.

Don’t get me wrong i ALSO agree it will be a bit OP, while running a high burst build, and sitting in stealth for that perfect 1 shot moment on a DH or someone in general. But the amount of passives in the game like a ranger’s Ward of protection or whatever it’s called that glances and applies weakness while bursting within a certain range. I’m just saying that everyone’s passive abilities seem to be working really well to keep them alive to negate a Thief’s initial burst Steal attempt. (As you know from my montages, I open and close with a 1 shot).

But if not the assassin signet 3 unblockable hits, then at least roll back that bassi + venom in general buff. Double Unblockable Bassi Venom.

both class’s above are designed to be in your face though, only DH can pull/port but the class it self has been our counter since day 1. i personally think it will be silly to have AS unblock, especially when we can port 2400 range do 18k dmg in a second then port back again.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

both class’s above are designed to be in your face though, only DH can pull/port but the class it self has been our counter since day 1. i personally think it will be silly to have AS unblock, especially when we can port 2400 range do 18k dmg in a second then port back again.

Well if not AS. Then our Bassi. Venom back to 2 stacks. It was reverted back to 1 for some unprecedented random reason. But I still personally like the AS suggestion still.

If thief could actually teleport 2400, land the damage and port back again at this point in the game, there would be no reason for the suggestion.

The point is that thieves are having an incredible difficult time landing any of their DPS.

You can trait and gear for max dps, and entire burst might only net you 3? 4k? damage after passive and active procs, armor rating etc.

And for alchemist, you listed possible builds, not a role. Nearly any class can fight/roam/decap/sustain etc. Those are not roles, anyone can swing a weapon.

Here is an example of a Role:

The class that provides healing to everyone.
The class that specializes in long range dps
The class that provides AoE spam
The class that specializes in effectively tearing down bunkers (see Tracer in Overwatch as a prime example)

AikijinX.6258:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

both class’s above are designed to be in your face though, only DH can pull/port but the class it self has been our counter since day 1. i personally think it will be silly to have AS unblock, especially when we can port 2400 range do 18k dmg in a second then port back again.

Well if not AS. Then our Bassi. Venom back to 2 stacks. It was reverted back to 1 for some unprecedented random reason. But I still personally like the AS suggestion still.

pretty sure itr was reverted because venom share became baseline and that we can give 4 other people it too.

Warhawk.7095:

If thief could actually teleport 2400, land the damage and port back again at this point in the game, there would be no reason for the suggestion.

The point is that thieves are having an incredible difficult time landing any of their DPS.

You can trait and gear for max dps, and entire burst might only net you 3? 4k? damage after passive and active procs, armor rating etc.

And for alchemist, you listed possible builds, not a role. Nearly any class can fight/roam/decap/sustain etc. Those are not roles, anyone can swing a weapon.

Here is an example of a Role:

The class that provides healing to everyone.
The class that specializes in long range dps
The class that provides AoE spam
The class that specializes in effectively tearing down bunkers (see Tracer in Overwatch as a prime example)

If you want to play a different role, play a different class. Thieves excel at decapping, bursting, and, depending on the person and build, 1v1ing if played correctly. You’re not gonna get a heal support build on a class meant for high damage and evasion.

I never said I wanted to play a different role, I said the class needs to have a defined role in the first place.

Then I provided examples to you of what a role is.

To repeat myself for the last time, standing on a point and decapping it is not a role, it is an action. I can decap a point and 1v1 on a warrior. Refer to the previous post. And that being said, neither WvW or PVE have anything to decap.

Warhawk.7095:

I never said I wanted to play a different role, I said the class needs to have a defined role in the first place.

Then I provided examples to you of what a role is.

To repeat myself for the last time, standing on a point and decapping it is not a role, it is an action. I can decap a point and 1v1 on a warrior. Refer to the previous post. And that being said, neither WvW or PVE have anything to decap.

You never mentioned a game mode so i just gave all of them.

As far as a role goes, saying decapping isn’t a role is like saying being a healer isn’t a role (“healing isn’t a role, it’s an action”) It literally is one of the thief’s main roles. Yes, you can decap on a warrior, just like you can “heal” on an engi, but that doesn’t mean that’s its best role. Thief is the best at filling that role. You’re making it sound like a thief has nothing to offer to a team, which simply isn’t true.

alchemyst.2165:

Warhawk.7095:

I never said I wanted to play a different role, I said the class needs to have a defined role in the first place.

Then I provided examples to you of what a role is.

To repeat myself for the last time, standing on a point and decapping it is not a role, it is an action. I can decap a point and 1v1 on a warrior. Refer to the previous post. And that being said, neither WvW or PVE have anything to decap.

You never mentioned a game mode so i just gave all of them.

As far as a role goes, saying decapping isn’t a role is like saying being a healer isn’t a role (“healing isn’t a role, it’s an action”) It literally is one of the thief’s main roles. Yes, you can decap on a warrior, just like you can “heal” on an engi, but that doesn’t mean that’s its best role. Thief is the best at filling that role. You’re making it sound like a thief has nothing to offer to a team, which simply isn’t true.

Maybe changing the word “Role” to “job” is better to understand in all contexts. A thief’s main job primarily for High tiered PvP purposes is to Decap, and +1. All other classes have this same Job that they can actively do or not do by their choosing. A Thief can just perform this job a little better than other classes.

What really should have happened: they should have given the thief druid spec so the thief would actually get different role.
Instead they gave thief acro v2.0 :/

Cynz.9437:

What really should have happened: they should have given the thief druid spec so the thief would actually get different role.
Instead they gave thief acro v2.0 :/

Don’t worry, the 2nd one they seem to be getting will add nothing…again.

You better enjoy playing D/P in PvP cause that’s all you’ll be playing for at least another 2 years.

Do not forget our ability to steal boons away quickly via RS and BT. This adds excellent team support to groups dealing with boon heavy opponents.

I do not PvP but have logged in my boon stripper build JUST for that reason in WvW and the impact it can make on a given small group fight is significant. I have long used this in my core p/d condition build and now try it with a s/d build.

Whilst Thieves do tend to suffer as more people enter a fight (like Mesmer), it’s undoubtedly the king of roaming and dominates the scouting/response time role in WvW. Can’t be proficient in every role unfortunately, but it’s better to be good at one thing at least (unlike Ranger that is err, not really a role filler).

But, Thief can perform well in massive fights by just being careful. When I enter large fights I mostly pick off backliners and stragglers with my dps set, then switch to shortbow and spam Choking Gas on a stacked group to disrupt their healing rotation. Sometimes just being a nuisance and disrupting a back line can be enough to be effective.

Asur.9178:

Cynz.9437:

What really should have happened: they should have given the thief druid spec so the thief would actually get different role.
Instead they gave thief acro v2.0 :/

Don’t worry, the 2nd one they seem to be getting will add nothing…again.

You better enjoy playing D/P in PvP cause that’s all you’ll be playing for at least another 2 years.

I actually do enjoy playing d/p, was always fan of the weaponset it does bother me that we have no alternative to decap pet.

Simonoly.4352:

Whilst Thieves do tend to suffer as more people enter a fight (like Mesmer), it’s undoubtedly the king of roaming and dominates the scouting/response time role in WvW. Can’t be proficient in every role unfortunately, but it’s better to be good at one thing at least (unlike Ranger that is err, not really a role filler).

But, Thief can perform well in massive fights by just being careful. When I enter large fights I mostly pick off backliners and stragglers with my dps set, then switch to shortbow and spam Choking Gas on a stacked group to disrupt their healing rotation. Sometimes just being a nuisance and disrupting a back line can be enough to be effective.

Wat? Last time i checked druids were must have in raids and good support/point holders in pvp.

Cynz.9437:

Wat? Last time i checked druids were must have in raids and good support/point holders in pvp.

Ah I’m just referring to WvW. However, actually Druid is a pretty good support class for small scale WvW and is a pretty good choice for 1v1s.