Guild Wars 2

Quality-of-life improvements and PvP health have been our focus for the thief, mainly for daredevil. As such, we’ll be looking to reduce endurance from a few different areas to target survivability through evasion but also compensate for it a bit with extra utility and condition removals

Infiltrator’s Strike: This skill has been unsplit from PvP and will now use a 900 maximum range. Immobilize duration has been increased from 1 second to 1.5 seconds game-wide.
Vault: The code functionality of this skill has been updated. The user will now more accurately travel to the targeted destination when under high-latency situations, in most scenarios. This skill is now affected by quickness. This skill now requires a line of sight to the target point in order to cast.
Bound: This trait will no longer trigger the damage and bonus portion if the dodge is canceled or interrupted.
Signet of Agility: The endurance gain from this skill has been reduced from 100 to 50 in PvP only.
Signet of Agility: Condition cleansing has been increased from 1 to 3 in all game modes.
Channeled Vigor: The endurance gain from this skill has been reduced from 25 to 20 per pulse in PvP only.
Hard to Catch: The internal cooldown on this trait has been increased from 30 seconds to 45 seconds in PvP only.
Upper Hand: The internal cooldown on this trait has been increased from 2 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP only.
Body Shot: The duration of immobilize inflicted by this skill has been increased from 1 second to 1.5 seconds in PvP only.
Cloak and Dagger: The vulnerability inflicted by this skill has been increased from 3 stacks to 5 stacks.
Assassin’s Signet: The recharge of this skill has been reduced from 45 seconds to 40 seconds.
Needle Trap: The poison inflicted by this skill has been increased from 1 stack to 3 stacks.
Caltrops: The duration of bleeding inflicted by this skill has been increased from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.
Tripwire: The recharge of this skill has been reduced from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.

So, can anyone point to me where the “extra utility and condition removals” part starts?

Signet of Agility

good for infiltrator strike, good for soa in condi cleaning, good for traps, still worried about vault that won’t be able t be used for more strategic jumping in JPs, but so far not having any issues with it…

So wvw thieves got buffs and that is all I care about. More condi clear is always welcome. Want to play around with the vault and bound changes. Ghost/trap thieves buffed. CnD buff lol thats neat.

Question to you pvpers. Was acro and/or staff really such a large issue for game balance, being that even #s fight role and does this fix it? I was under the impression that d/p DA was king of all thief roles for pvp.

haven’t felt any differences with vault so far…

even if both shadow step and vault require line of sight, I’0m still able to get to places with vault that I can’t using shadow step… weird.

coso.9173:

even if both shadow step and vault require line of sight, I’0m still able to get to places with vault that I can’t using shadow step… weird.

can you vault across gaps/jumping puzzles fine still?

TehHobNob.4687:

So wvw thieves got buffs and that is all I care about. More condi clear is always welcome. Want to play around with the vault and bound changes. Ghost/trap thieves buffed. CnD buff lol thats neat.

Question to you pvpers. Was acro staff really such a large issue for game balance, being that even #s fight role and does this fix it? I was under the impression that d/p was king of all thief roles for pvp.

haven’t meet any during last season…

fumcheg.1936:

TehHobNob.4687:

So wvw thieves got buffs and that is all I care about. More condi clear is always welcome. Want to play around with the vault and bound changes. Ghost/trap thieves buffed. CnD buff lol thats neat.

Question to you pvpers. Was acro staff really such a large issue for game balance, being that even #s fight role and does this fix it? I was under the impression that d/p was king of all thief roles for pvp.

haven’t meet any during last season…

Yeah that is what I was guessing/ same answer from my friends. Begs the question….Why the acro trait line pvp nerfs (hard to catch and Upper Hand) if it really wasn’t even used? Only thing I can come up with is they want to lessen the safety net it provided.

The real question is, have you seen other classes changes? It gonna be painful for us~

TehHobNob.4687:

Yeah that is what I was guessing/ same answer from my friends. Begs the question….Why the aco pvp nerf if it really wasn’t even used?

Does “aco” mean hard to catch? You can also use that trait with D/P, although the split between wvw/pve and pvp doesn’t make any sense anyway – I don’t get why anet is going this route.
This looks like their admitted “we have no idea what to do with thief” and some shifting from here to there while the ‘main problem’ = D/P still is untouched.

ETA: Haven’t read through all classes but am overjoyed that warrior got some more buffs – really necessary!

it looks like thief is the only class that got nerf in pvp… but what really kitten me off is that they even do not call it nerf. cos we got compensation “with extra utility and condition removals”. 3 instead 1 condi cleanse with 30sec cd. thant is compensation.

and yes, warrior buff is just lol

Wvw thieves have it even more easier now.

Who got the shaft? Thief got the shaft!

Think revs got a not of a shafting too tbh.

If you are upset about this endurance nerf, and didn’t see it coming, and didn’t learn to play anything else other than a spec that carries and takes little to no skill to use, then I am sorry for your loss and this utter inconvenience. :/ . Time to learn to play DA.

I really like the SoA buff. The fix to vault I will have to see the “fix” for myself. Atleast they didn’t hurt power Thief. my build survives balance patch.

Jana.6831:

TehHobNob.4687:

Yeah that is what I was guessing/ same answer from my friends. Begs the question….Why the aco pvp nerf if it really wasn’t even used?

Does “aco” mean hard to catch? You can also use that trait with D/P, although the split between wvw/pve and pvp doesn’t make any sense anyway – I don’t get why anet is going this route.
This looks like their admitted “we have no idea what to do with thief” and some shifting from here to there while the ‘main problem’ = D/P still is untouched.

ETA: Haven’t read through all classes but am overjoyed that warrior got some more buffs – really necessary!

You do realize nerfing D/P wouldn’t make other weapon sets viable, correct? You take away our meta build and we’re left with sub par builds, 1-1 = 0 just wanna point that out real quick. As Sindrener pointed out multiple times there would need to be major overhauls to the other weapon sets or the other HoT specs to make them viable. Nerfing D/P won’t do that at all.

AikijinX.6258:

If you are upset about this endurance nerf, and didn’t see it coming, and didn’t learn to play anything else other than a spec that carries and takes little to no skill to use, then I am sorry for your loss and this utter inconvenience. :/ . Time to learn to play DA.

I really like the SoA buff. The fix to vault I will have to see the “fix” for myself. Atleast they didn’t hurt power Thief. my build survives balance patch.

Do you hear some voices in your head or what? I can’t get this “logical” chain after you stated I am upset with nerf?

BTW enurance does not refill after match begins atm. Hope they will not wait 6 monthes to fix it…

DuoMaxwell.8019:

You do realize nerfing D/P wouldn’t make other weapon sets viable, correct? You take away our meta build and we’re left with sub par builds, 1-1 = 0 just wanna point that out real quick.

I agree that ANet shouldn’t nerf a weapon set to make other weapon sets appear better but instead should fix/elevate the issues with other weapon sets. However, D/P for a long time has been too strong. Shadow Shot and Stealth Stacking are over-tuned IMO.

TehHobNob.4687:

coso.9173:

even if both shadow step and vault require line of sight, I’0m still able to get to places with vault that I can’t using shadow step… weird.

can you vault across gaps/jumping puzzles fine still?

yep, just tried it that way and it worked…

DuoMaxwell.8019:

You do realize nerfing D/P wouldn’t make other weapon sets viable, correct? You take away our meta build and we’re left with sub par builds, 1-1 = 0 just wanna point that out real quick. As Sindrener pointed out multiple times there would need to be major overhauls to the other weapon sets or the other HoT specs to make them viable. Nerfing D/P won’t do that at all.

You do realize that if D/P never will be nerfed then core thief will be nerfed and no other set will ever be viable again, right?
I don’t give a whatever about whatever sinderer says or thinks, sorry. He only knows D/P and that’s ok, but he would need to know some other sets to have a valid opinion.

Jana.6831:

DuoMaxwell.8019:

You do realize nerfing D/P wouldn’t make other weapon sets viable, correct? You take away our meta build and we’re left with sub par builds, 1-1 = 0 just wanna point that out real quick. As Sindrener pointed out multiple times there would need to be major overhauls to the other weapon sets or the other HoT specs to make them viable. Nerfing D/P won’t do that at all.

You do realize that if D/P never will be nerfed then core thief will be nerfed and no other set will ever be viable again, right?
I don’t give a whatever about whatever sinderer says or thinks, sorry. He only knows D/P and that’s ok, but he would need to know some other sets to have a valid opinion.

Sind used to main S/D.

Luto.1938:

Jana.6831:

DuoMaxwell.8019:

You do realize nerfing D/P wouldn’t make other weapon sets viable, correct? You take away our meta build and we’re left with sub par builds, 1-1 = 0 just wanna point that out real quick. As Sindrener pointed out multiple times there would need to be major overhauls to the other weapon sets or the other HoT specs to make them viable. Nerfing D/P won’t do that at all.

You do realize that if D/P never will be nerfed then core thief will be nerfed and no other set will ever be viable again, right?
I don’t give a whatever about whatever sinderer says or thinks, sorry. He only knows D/P and that’s ok, but he would need to know some other sets to have a valid opinion.

Sind used to main S/D.

pretty sure he was always d/p its seizer that use and still does main it.

Jana.6831:

DuoMaxwell.8019:

You do realize nerfing D/P wouldn’t make other weapon sets viable, correct? You take away our meta build and we’re left with sub par builds, 1-1 = 0 just wanna point that out real quick. As Sindrener pointed out multiple times there would need to be major overhauls to the other weapon sets or the other HoT specs to make them viable. Nerfing D/P won’t do that at all.

You do realize that if D/P never will be nerfed then core thief will be nerfed and no other set will ever be viable again, right?
I don’t give a whatever about whatever sinderer says or thinks, sorry. He only knows D/P and that’s ok, but he would need to know some other sets to have a valid opinion.

And you know only d/d because i said so so your opinion is invalid. You don’t even know Sind lol. Who are you to decide who’s opinion is invalid?

Luto.1938:

Sind used to main S/D.

Yeah, back in the day when he just started likely. No offense but we noobs on this forum had this topic from hell and back and then some more. If you had any good arguments I might be interested in hearing them but “sinderer said” is Kindergarten, really.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Luto.1938:

Jana.6831:

DuoMaxwell.8019:

You do realize nerfing D/P wouldn’t make other weapon sets viable, correct? You take away our meta build and we’re left with sub par builds, 1-1 = 0 just wanna point that out real quick. As Sindrener pointed out multiple times there would need to be major overhauls to the other weapon sets or the other HoT specs to make them viable. Nerfing D/P won’t do that at all.

You do realize that if D/P never will be nerfed then core thief will be nerfed and no other set will ever be viable again, right?
I don’t give a whatever about whatever sinderer says or thinks, sorry. He only knows D/P and that’s ok, but he would need to know some other sets to have a valid opinion.

Sind used to main S/D.

pretty sure he was always d/p its seizer that use and still does main it.

Oh crap insert foot into mouth your right… I was thinking Seizer… Sind did play a bit of S/D but I don’t think ever main it. You guys should give S/P a go. It’s a lot of fun with Pulmonary Impact pistol whips.

Cynz.9437:

And you know only d/d because i said so so your opinion is invalid. You don’t even know Sind lol.

I also know P/D and D/P, honey
I don’t personally know him, but what I’ve read from him is “D/P is not OP” without any explanation – so I guess I don’t need to know him anyway.

Luto.1938:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Luto.1938:

Jana.6831:

DuoMaxwell.8019:

You do realize nerfing D/P wouldn’t make other weapon sets viable, correct? You take away our meta build and we’re left with sub par builds, 1-1 = 0 just wanna point that out real quick. As Sindrener pointed out multiple times there would need to be major overhauls to the other weapon sets or the other HoT specs to make them viable. Nerfing D/P won’t do that at all.

You do realize that if D/P never will be nerfed then core thief will be nerfed and no other set will ever be viable again, right?
I don’t give a whatever about whatever sinderer says or thinks, sorry. He only knows D/P and that’s ok, but he would need to know some other sets to have a valid opinion.

Sind used to main S/D.

pretty sure he was always d/p its seizer that use and still does main it.

Oh crap insert foot into mouth your right… I was thinking Seizer… Sind did play a bit of S/D but I don’t think ever main it. You guys should give S/P a go. It’s a lot of fun with Pulmonary Impact pistol whips.

His name is Sizer.

All this talk about making S/D viable again… wish they’d just revert sword 3 (Larcenous Strike/Flanking Strike) back to the way it was, decrease after-cast of sword 2 (Infiltrator’s Strike/Return) and then increase the auto attack speed slightly while decreasing its damage per hit to be fair. I don’t think these would be game breaking, but it would make sword feel a lot more fluid.

Jana.6831:

Cynz.9437:

And you know only d/d because i said so so your opinion is invalid. You don’t even know Sind lol.

I also know P/D and D/P, honey
I don’t personally know him, but what I’ve read from him is “D/P is not OP” without any explanation – so I guess I don’t need to know him anyway.

“I don’t like this person’s opinion so i resort to assumptions to invalidate it”.

So glad I don’t play this game anymore lol… reading these patch notes just makes me cringe…

I’m taking about the whole patch notes and not just thief…

you cant interrupt vault midair anymore with weaponswap, and vault animation is slower then before patch or?

What a bunch of bullkitten this balance patch was, Guardian buffed, Warrior buffed, Engi buffed, and they nerfed endurance regen on thief and we stayed mostly the same as last season.

Yeah, I guess we keep +1 fights and decaping cause or 1v1 potential is still the same kitten though we lost more survivability, I’ll just throw myself at mid and hope for the best aoe kittenshow ever.

Have fun guys

@Edit, lol they didnt nerf endurance regen on WvW? seems like thief is the new warrior like on season 3 in pvp HAHA

rip the team who gets a thief

coso.9173:

TehHobNob.4687:

coso.9173:

even if both shadow step and vault require line of sight, I’0m still able to get to places with vault that I can’t using shadow step… weird.

can you vault across gaps/jumping puzzles fine still?

yep, just tried it that way and it worked…

thanks my dude I was at school.

so in general, no meta changes for thief in any game mode I guess? :/

Painkiller.4361:

you cant interrupt vault midair anymore with weaponswap, and vault animation is slower then before patch or?

I agree vault feels slow. Its just off somehow and just feels wrong. Its even more off with quickness. The animation stops mid air as apposed to smacking the ground. It isn’t timed properly.

Lmao can all of you stop talking as if you know me or make assumptions.

https://youtu.be/UHNbX2xdYkE?t=513

I’ve played S/D on a higher level than all of you here. Also S/P same situation (when it was strong af)

Nerf D/P all you want, none of the other sets will be viable in PvP, closest one or can be considered would be Staff.

Talking about weaponsets in general and S/D gameplay

gameplay: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123950964?t=1h48m10s

talking: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123950964?t=1h59m30s

Also Jana, you talk about as if D/P is OP in SPVP, you aren’t even close to be remotely good or be at the top to understand how it is to PLAY D/P there. There for whatever you say has no impact because you don’t know how it is to play at a high level SPVP.

If you talk about this beloved wvw utopia i couldn’t care less what they do to dp there, remove it for all i care

http://imgur.com/a/vHtPF more oldschool screens from when i played S/D

Yep, vault was butchered. I absolutely hate how it looks and feels.

I’m quite pleased with the changes to endurance. We have more than enough dodges for combat or mobility. A more efficient condi cleanse though…i’ll take it. I see a lot of benefits (i.e druid taunt is almost garanteed to be removed even if covered)

Classic Perception.2507:

Yep, vault was butchered. I absolutely hate how it looks and feels.

I don’t notice any difference with vault? maybe with quickness, I haven’t tried it that way yet, but normally I can’t say it feels any different from before…

wow thanks Anet,this will surely make s/d viable again! That’s for the extra utility! Amazing update! That 300 range addition will surly make up for butchering the #3 skill by forcing us to strike a target in order for the skill to flip.

bluri.2653:

Lmao can all of you stop talking as if you know me or make assumptions.

https://youtu.be/UHNbX2xdYkE?t=513

I’ve played S/D on a higher level than all of you here. Also S/P same situation (when it was strong af)

Nerf D/P all you want, none of the other sets will be viable in PvP, closest one or can be considered would be Staff.

Talking about weaponsets in general and S/D gameplay

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123950964?t=1h59m30s

Also Jana, you talk about as if D/P is OP in SPVP, you aren’t even close to be remotely good or be at the top to understand how it is to PLAY D/P there. There for whatever you say has no impact because you don’t know how it is to play at a high level SPVP.

If you talk about this beloved wvw utopia i couldn’t care less what they do to dp there, remove it for all i care

http://imgur.com/a/vHtPF more oldschool screens from when i played S/D

Nobody cares abour your self-praising bragging rights.

Mahou.3924:

bluri.2653:

Lmao can all of you stop talking as if you know me or make assumptions.

https://youtu.be/UHNbX2xdYkE?t=513

I’ve played S/D on a higher level than all of you here. Also S/P same situation (when it was strong af)

Nerf D/P all you want, none of the other sets will be viable in PvP, closest one or can be considered would be Staff.

Talking about weaponsets in general and S/D gameplay

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123950964?t=1h59m30s

Also Jana, you talk about as if D/P is OP in SPVP, you aren’t even close to be remotely good or be at the top to understand how it is to PLAY D/P there. There for whatever you say has no impact because you don’t know how it is to play at a high level SPVP.

If you talk about this beloved wvw utopia i couldn’t care less what they do to dp there, remove it for all i care

http://imgur.com/a/vHtPF more oldschool screens from when i played S/D

Nobody cares abour your self-praising bragging rights.

I never said I was good, mind you. I only meant it as I have PvP’d on a higher level (if you want to see that as bragging be my guest) also I am utter trash on S/D right now I’d say. But people saying that I never played S/D or know how it works are wrong.

Anyways, these forums never make sense so there is no reason for me to really read or post here. Thank god Anet at least understood that D/P doesn’t need nerf and share the same vision.

coso.9173:

Classic Perception.2507:

Yep, vault was butchered. I absolutely hate how it looks and feels.

I don’t notice any difference with vault? maybe with quickness, I haven’t tried it that way yet, but normally I can’t say it feels any different from before…

I personally feel like the animation is stretched out if that makes sense? Like its the same time-frame but the movement feels as if my character is hovering in the air for a bit. Its subtle but my muscle memory is just telling me its different. Maybe I’m just crazy.

With quickness its for sure not working properly tho lol. If you try to vault max distance the actual attack will go off at near 2/3 the distance in the air, completely missing the target while you land the full distance.

Going up ramps with it is busted because of LOS. If you are near the top of the ramp but not on the flat surface and try to vault max distance or so out onto the flat surface your character just stops in place by basically an invisible wall. The distance is not traveled. I did this at the royal terrace ramp going to the second floor.

Mahou.3924:

bluri.2653:

Lmao can all of you stop talking as if you know me or make assumptions.

https://youtu.be/UHNbX2xdYkE?t=513

I’ve played S/D on a higher level than all of you here. Also S/P same situation (when it was strong af)

Nerf D/P all you want, none of the other sets will be viable in PvP, closest one or can be considered would be Staff.

Talking about weaponsets in general and S/D gameplay

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/123950964?t=1h59m30s

Also Jana, you talk about as if D/P is OP in SPVP, you aren’t even close to be remotely good or be at the top to understand how it is to PLAY D/P there. There for whatever you say has no impact because you don’t know how it is to play at a high level SPVP.

If you talk about this beloved wvw utopia i couldn’t care less what they do to dp there, remove it for all i care

http://imgur.com/a/vHtPF more oldschool screens from when i played S/D

Nobody cares abour your self-praising bragging rights.

It is not bragging, Jana called him out.

Yall don’t know? Sindrener is the best thief in the game.

Literally. #1 on EU.

but that’s an understatement. Watching him play is something else. If there was ever an authority for thief, he’d be the authority. I’d take his word over any other thief I’ve met.

I don’t get why it’s so hard to understand lmao. Nerfing our main meta set isn’t suddenly going to make the other sets viable. Just because I said “Sindrener said” doesn’t make the argument any less valid. The weapon sets are sub par for a reason, that’s a confirmed fact. Nerfing our true meta beta isn’t just going to magically make all the other sets good. I’ll say it again, when you have 1 true meta build and then nerf it, 1-1 = 0, that means we’re just left with kitten builds, idk why people can’t understand that.

All I know is I’m shelving my thief (quite unfortunate), and after fiddling around with some stuff on the other 8 classes (mostly rev) for the next few days, probably shelving my game if nothing clicks (even more unfortunate).

I have no interest in playing my mesmer, warrior, and guardian again next season, because the balance team is too incompetent to make unused weapons, skills, and traits better. They nerfed the class’ only defensive mechanic (evasion), without compensating them with any form of reliable access to protection, aegis, or invulnerability. On top of that, they buffed mesmers and their phantasms, warriors, and guardians. I mean this balance team is utter trash and clearly playing a different game than the rest of us.

All I wanted from them was to make sword and pistol MH better and fixing bugs which has been around since over 4 years (scorpion wire & shadow trap primarily), but apparently that’s asking too much. I wasn’t even expecting more team play ability from thief considering they haven’t given a kitten about the selfish class in years. They need to seriously consider changing the dev in charge of thief balance (we know who it is) because he clearly has no love or aspiration for the class.

I haven’t been able to get my competitive fix from this game in years, and DotA2 does plenty of that for me. As far as PvE goes, props to the raid team for Wing 4 (it was well done), but I am finding myself bored of the class that I once cared deeply for, because the balance team just doesn’t give a kitten – which is enough to drive me away.

Before you reply to me, if you think I never gave a kitten about the game, then consider the attached pictures.

http://i.imgur.com/Z8JCxI4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/a9mpJwS.jpg

I blurred out the names because I do not like to get random whispers from complete strangers. What you cannot see on the hero panel is that Bifrost is overskinned with Nevermore, Ad Infinitum is overskinned with Ascension, 3 phospholumi infusions, 2 winter’s heart infusions, and 8 ghostly infusions. That’s only my thief; so, yes, I spent a considerable amount of time on the class and the recent balance changes after the 4th gw2 birthday has only been slowly driving me away from the game.