Guild Wars 2

hey it my new variant of my older panicond build
some of you wont like it as they got used too much for escape utilities
but i like it and this build buff up your group so much
with 100% chill duration and poison, and 70% bleed duration weakness and all other conditions
you are just a conditions machine
good in 1v1 or 1v2 (hard in 1vx)
great in team fights

it will make you a lot of better CND as its your only escape tool

i use superior rune of grenth (my older version used balthazar for burning dmg – op)

here are some example against hard condition cleaner profession – the eles/necro and some group play

hope you like it

few dueling clips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h85AUoyGfAs&feature=youtu.be

The 1 spam and utility spam is skillful. Teach me.

i have w8ing for this comment -took you long
teach me #3 spam with s/d with no team support full zerk
teach me #2 d/d spam with no team support full zerk
teach me #5+2/1 d/p spam with no team support full zerk

again you dont understand this concept if you think its just spam utilities. you have to w8 till your group clash till some of the enemies will be without stability and use their shouts than you spam it. you have to look carefully at the movement and you have to position yourself correctly

lets see you play with no escape utilities like sr ,ss, bp and stay alive and not run away when you take the hit as most thieves do ss away

messiah.1908:

i have w8ing for this comment -took you long
teach me #3 spam with s/d with no team support full zerk
teach me #2 d/d spam with no team support full zerk
teach me #5+2/1 d/p spam with no team support full zerk

You’re being delusional ;D The reason you didn’t use any utilities is because the players you fight are very new to the game — you can even see them keyboard turning.

The reason I don’t use utilities ate I know my limits and I know when to strike and how
I know my enemies rotation
And the Reason they don’t move is they immobilize and stuned and chill

I like the video name.

So you beat some ele/necro who are bad enough to not even consider using food at all while you had all different possible kinds of bonuses.
Moreso than that, the time it took for you to do that is UNACCEPTABLE. In other words, showing that you are bad.
Zerg clips may as well not be there, but they show exactly what you wanted to show – how useless your thief is with 200 damage bombs. As we all know zergs have a billion million of AOE condition cleanses. So… GL&HF being useful in a zerg. In fact even S/D thief(YES THE PVP VERSION) would be more useful in a zerg with it’s steal sharing 6 boons with nearby allies.

Lol dude. Rewatch your own video. Count how many times you’ve spammed 1. Do it for me please. It’s either 1 or 5 (for stomp finish or mini escape) on p/d, or 2 and 5 on short bow. So skillful man. Teach me please. trollface

I said this in another thread.

why the hell are u running condi in a zerg? LOL

they all get cleansed rapidly and u end up doing very minimal damage, if even just 1 tick, from the condi itself…

ur wasting a space in ur guild if ur running that, if it were me, id rather have an actual thief who knows what he/she is doing in a zerg vs. zerg situation…

3-5k cluster bombs is more useful than 500 ticks of condi + the chill duration that does absolutely nothing in this case due to all the condi clears and -% condi durations everyone is using…

lol. seriously, how the hell did u go about making this…

u do realize that zergs have an insane amount of condi clears right? why in the world are u building for condition duration? even if ur going condi (which is still a bad idea), u might as well spec for condition damage instead

also, those 10 stacks of might u give ur zerg is irrelevant. most guilds can build 25 in a heartbeat without a bunch of venom share thieves running around thinking their helping when they’re really not.

its no better than running a permastealth build lol…

also, p/d is an easy weaponset and u were fighting noobs for the most part during the entire video

sorry not sorry. and it makes it even worse that u tried to defend urself and try to prove that ur skillful and know what ur doing when everyone in the thread so far has basically proven u wrong multiple times

Why do so many people go out of their way to purposely act like idiots on here?

It’s pretty disappointing.

Seems like it’s so hard to fight people near jis keep with cannon :p

The main problem I have with the build is that it’s group oriented (you could even call it group reliant since you basically hold things down for your friends to hit) without supplying anything the group couldn’t do without. Not to mention it requires you to give up the majority of your damage, stealth based sustain and general utility to do it. That’s not so much your fault and more the venom utilities not being very good in general though.

i dont care ppl criticise as this forum is the place for it
i do care ppl saying nothing but this is bad build or i am bad player without explain why

so far i have hardly saw s/d or d/x thieves is zerk/group fights and the ones i saw only 1 or 2 to down ppl from 50% hp fast and stealth out for 5-10 seconds looking for another easy prey. if its the way you like to fight do so.
while some will do 2-4 cluster bomb and roll out the hit and pressing 1 AA in between (oh #2 spam…)

the main problem is ppl dont understand this build purpose

you have the melee train to do the vast dmg and the power necro to do the burst aoe. so another direct dmg can be overpowered player which dont contribute anything to the group.
the thief main job is to take down fast and stomp and scout. (not from gvg pov – periphery harasser)
here if ppl say conditions get cleanse explain how can i trigger poison to tick 5-10 times while cover wide area …
also if i want to burst someone i can immobilize and my group will see someone slacking around and kill him fast.
regarding the might stacks i give, sure guardian can bring it easily to 25 but most of the time its done before the burst while i try to use it while we burst or after so the might maintain (dont forget enemy use well and null field)
and again the venom really help to catch slacking enemies and kill them fast

and if ppl say and think full venom its easy p/d try it yourself first without no escape tool.

@Reborn D – they were 2 guardians and 1 warrior. its hard handling with them alone (even in any other thief build). i tried to lure them to the guards so i can venom share there.
@Jugglemonkey – i can see why you’re saying that. for group play most thieves will go power valk/zerk build and use cluster bomb and in between use cnd etc.
i didnt go for the dmg build rather as the support build
i can aoe chill which is very important condition. here even better than necro
the immobilization is for full stack (10 seconds) sahre with 5 allies which is very powerful when time it right
and the poison aoe field which is far better than any other condition spec harass the enemy well.

as i havent compared it to the power thief i assuming that the sustain dps going to be ~equal in group fight. as the condi aoe does around 700 dps to 5 enemies just with SB (without taking into account your allies venoms) so power cluster bomb will do 4k *2 aoe in it best but then the thief will run to heal as his armor and health too low. so in 10 sec the dmg will be the same.

and for the ppl who dont like it – you dont have too. but dont say p/d full venom is easy mode build without any utilities to help you out.

People arn’t saying your build is easy mode. Were saying it is a useless build. You’re easy to kill, and anyone could provide more damage and utility by just bringing a short bow.

He’s obviously not a bad. The chill uptime looks like a lot of fun, personally I’ve always been a fan of assassin-like builds with a lot of control, although this isn’t exactly that. However I feel venomshare belongs more to smaller group settings.

The vid contains a bit of everything, but would be nice to see more about how it performs in smaller scale fights. The first song is boring.

here is a few clips dueling melee classes warrior (several meta builds) and thief power build. also the players knew my build so knew what to expect
these guys know how to fight and i want to thank them for letting me duel and examine my build bit more

i went full venom share as in group fight (didnt switch to thieves guild etc..)
the thief gave me the most problem with the stealth and blind but when i manage to hit him i drop his hp fast
i put clips of me doing some mistakes so ppl can see from what to avoid. mostly dont miss cnd

hope you enjoy it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h85AUoyGfAs&feature=youtu.be

I lol’d at some of the players you were fighting. You were fighting baddies, which are extremely vulnerable against condibombs.
1. No stunbreaks, would love to see you fight a decent Hammer/Skullcrack warrior, necro with fear, …
2. You rely on your condi bombs every 20 seconds, if you miss them you’re suddenly useless. A well timed dodge, blind, block, … already makes you miss a third of your bomb.
3. This build is amazing in like 2v2, 3v3, … but as stated above useless in a zerg, too much condiclear.
4. The reason you’re build is decent in 1v1 is because condi’s are so powerful in WvW when it comes to 1v1s.

they were defently not baddies as they killed several players (other thieves, guardians and engineer)and also they used some meta builds (healsignet warrior with hammer stun).
sure this build wont be able to take all classes and all builds (as any other build)
sure this build need you to land your cnd and time right your attacks
sure if i want to 1vx i will take ss and sr

as you (and i ) said this build is good in 1v1
the chill and immobilize lock your target and give you some space to manouver while (as some mention) just spam 1 to put more pressure
you saw the warrior said he couldnt reach me – this is the idea
if i time my venoms right i can burst with my conditions to take down to 20% hp any player and even if i miss i can dodge, chill evade etc while my cd up again.

in small group this build is so nice
and even in big group fight as the cc you bring is too valuable compare to only dmg you bring as power thief (which warrior/guardian/ele/necro can do better)
so its a nich spot which so far no class can bring to the fight as i buf fthe group with 2 more stun and cc

mmmmm… i’m not sure what this build brings to a organized guild group that an ele doesn’t do already. If you want to give out stuns, chills, or immobs, other classes do it much better. The only unique things this build brings would be… higher survivability compared to maybe… an ele (maybe not even that), and giving life leach to 5 people… at the same time having less offensive support, aoe healing, and aoe dps.

instead of comparing to power thieves, which are notoriously horrible in a zerg… would you have been more useful as an ele, guard, warrior or necro? i think the answer is yes… but since this is the thief forums, would you have been more useful as a power thief… maybe? :O

I would argue that a power thief in a coordinated gank group would be more useful than adding more cc to the cc ccing ccness that is wvw group fighting :P

messiah.1908:

@Jugglemonkey – i can see why you’re saying that. for group play most thieves will go power valk/zerk build and use cluster bomb and in between use cnd etc.
i didnt go for the dmg build rather as the support build
i can aoe chill which is very important condition. here even better than necro
the immobilization is for full stack (10 seconds) sahre with 5 allies which is very powerful when time it right
and the poison aoe field which is far better than any other condition spec harass the enemy well.

as i havent compared it to the power thief i assuming that the sustain dps going to be ~equal in group fight. as the condi aoe does around 700 dps to 5 enemies just with SB (without taking into account your allies venoms) so power cluster bomb will do 4k *2 aoe in it best but then the thief will run to heal as his armor and health too low. so in 10 sec the dmg will be the same.

and for the ppl who dont like it – you dont have too. but dont say p/d full venom is easy mode build without any utilities to help you out.

Yeah, I can understand that. I do kinda have to agree with the other posters that it would be better in small organised groups or whilst roaming due to the abundance of cleanses in most zergs, but if you’re getting results then don’t let me stop you.

i wont start to sumup the group composition in group fight but the most important things are that the front line can cleanse and hit hard with some cc (hammer)
the ele should heal and cc and necro should burst with DS and wells skills.
so the basic 20 men composition are 5 warrior, 5 boon guardian/hammer cc, 3 heal ele, 3 power necro, 1-2 mesmer, 1-2 power thieves (scout or gank)
as you can see all classes have small abilities to cc and most of the enemy will use shouts and stability so for the first or seconds push thier cc and conditions will be wasted. also both groups probably use the same compositions.
while thieves as you say usualy group dont tend to take them (maybe scout) only 1 can give an opportunity to cc harder and longer with both chill and stun which spread out on 5 allies.
i know it might me like and mesmer job to just be as viel bot but its much important i think as groups never tried to fully understant it and tend to use only the meta skills/builds.

so as a full dire p/d thief, venoms are uneeded in a “chill immob build” … i run full runes of grenth, with sigil of ice and chill on my weps. my utilities are withdraw, roll for init, BP, SS, and basky venom. The weapon set alone has plenty of immob, and cripple, and with a 30% chance to cause chill on hit, with 25% chance to cause chill on getting hit, and chill at end of heal… youre plenty fine without icedrake venom. I have about 75% chill up time, which is plenty enough to make your opponent blow condi clears, and waste away to bleeds and confusion and torment and poison. plus in the end you also have 3 stun breaks and a condi clear under your belt… instead of 3 skills on a ridiculously high cooldown

Came here expecting to see a p/d thief press 1 a lot, not disappointed.

But really, the fact you basically never use 2-5 must tell you something.

ryan.6217:

so as a full dire p/d thief, venoms are uneeded in a “chill immob build” … i run full runes of grenth, with sigil of ice and chill on my weps. my utilities are withdraw, roll for init, BP, SS, and basky venom. The weapon set alone has plenty of immob, and cripple, and with a 30% chance to cause chill on hit, with 25% chance to cause chill on getting hit, and chill at end of heal… youre plenty fine without icedrake venom. I have about 75% chill up time, which is plenty enough to make your opponent blow condi clears, and waste away to bleeds and confusion and torment and poison. plus in the end you also have 3 stun breaks and a condi clear under your belt… instead of 3 skills on a ridiculously high cooldown

again group play and not solo (ppl want to see it work in small scale and solo fight so i did)
in one clip i went 2,0,6,0,6 build as you mention

but you can see the warrior reaction … he hated this build much more

phaeris.7604:

Came here expecting to see a p/d thief press 1 a lot, not disappointed.

But really, the fact you basically never use 2-5 must tell you something.

it can tell alot
1. i use it only when needed
2. i dont need to as the venoms down ppl so fast
3. and i do use it especially 5

Hello,

Oh noes hes not playing meta and actually goes a different approach!

People here said that venomshare is a waste because of condicleanse spam in a Blob.

Solution: dont Blawb

In a 15-20ish guild grp that condition bomb can eat trough those cleanses. Especially since the condis are not applied all at once but on every hit. Instant cleanse spam will fail If the timing is good i can imagine some viability there. Maybe even in a party with a condi necro.

Trying new ways is the way those awsome metas get created that will then be copypasted by exactly the same people that conkitten players that take a different approach.

Those Pros that are prolly running S/D 20066 or perma builds atm.

Keep trying and dont let the mob of simpleminded copycats drag you down.

Bonvy

wingclip.6182:

Hello,

Oh noes hes not playing meta and actually goes a different approach!

People here said that venomshare is a waste because of condicleanse spam in a Blob.

Solution: dont Blawb

In a 15-20ish guild grp that condition bomb can eat trough those cleanses. Especially since the condis are not applied all at once but on every hit. Instant cleanse spam will fail If the timing is good i can imagine some viability there. Maybe even in a party with a condi necro.

Trying new ways is the way those awsome metas get created that will then be copypasted by exactly the same people that conkitten players that take a different approach.

Those Pros that are prolly running S/D 20066 or perma builds atm.

Keep trying and dont let the mob of simpleminded copycats drag you down.

Bonvy

3/10

/15char

wingclip.6182:

Hello,

Oh noes hes not playing meta and actually goes a different approach!

People here said that venomshare is a waste because of condicleanse spam in a Blob.

Solution: dont Blawb

In a 15-20ish guild grp that condition bomb can eat trough those cleanses. Especially since the condis are not applied all at once but on every hit. Instant cleanse spam will fail If the timing is good i can imagine some viability there. Maybe even in a party with a condi necro.

Trying new ways is the way those awsome metas get created that will then be copypasted by exactly the same people that conkitten players that take a different approach.

Those Pros that are prolly running S/D 20066 or perma builds atm.

Keep trying and dont let the mob of simpleminded copycats drag you down.

Bonvy

Unfortunately, originality matters less than effectiveness in this game, as whichever way you look at it there’s a reason that meta builds are the meta. It’s because they are simply the most effective at what they do. That’s also why the meta tends to shift with balance patches more than in the time between them.

Incidentally, the problem of excess condi cleanse in a blob is not fixed by not blobbing, considering the other side will blob whether you like it or not. If anything you’re just reinforcing the point that it would be less effective in general group play than it would be in a specific havoc group/roaming situation.

Like I said, this build requires co-ordination to be useful in a group. There’s nothing wrong with that, I just like my effectiveness to be less dependant on whether 4 other guys are actually listening. If it works for the OP, more power to him.

meta or not meta this build works (like every other build in the right hands)
when i went condi guardian before the patch ppl just qq and now you can see much more of them in pvp, wvw etc
sure in 1v1 this full venom very strong, 1vx very weak (but changeable with ss or sr), small scale very strong, large scale medium and need communications . spvp its nice to play but in tpvp not usefull at all.
so compared to other thieves build its nice build
i dont say its meta, its a build with new approach
d/d just 5+1
s/d 1+3
d/p 5+2+1
p/d 1+3+5
meta build are just another build which ppl find them easy to learn and to handle in every situation needed thats all.
so far i havent seen any thief posting his build in large scale fight and there is a reason for it. any build can work for a thief in large scale fight

its complete cheese in 1v1s too.

ur literally waiting for all of ur venoms to cooldown before u can burst again and all the time in between is just 333333, 5, 1111111 and repeat.

u list the attacks that other weapon sets use but at least they require some skill.

u just wait for someone to close distance and 3 to get away.

u say that the point of the build is that they can’t catch u because of perma chill, but what if they are ranged? that warrior u fought was purely melee and that’s why it worked against him.

range are the easy ones i think as most of the time i try to stay on my target for cnd. so melee are the hardest.
actually the basic rotation will be :
open without venom and only 5+steal+dodge+1+3
then he will use cleanse and then you go full venom
or rotate your venoms when needed

for me cheesy build = meta build
everyone use them to boredom and no one try to find by himself something new
x/d set are the hardest i think as they need you to land your cnd to execute your burst
while s/x or d/p only need you to manage your ini bar
so all weapon set need some skills
i dont get it why ppl dont see the s/d as cheesy build with perma vigor and dodging and evades or the d/p with constant stealth on demand

and while i am w8ing for cd on venom i dont have utility escape so i need to learn my enemy moves and know what hit to evade and when to land cnd , so its not so easy and cheesy even in 1v1. i dont know many thieves who like to handle without SR or SS
also chill proc -66% skill cd so against ele/necro is so great
what this build excel is it punishing your enemy if he did a mistake right away as you immobilize him and full conditions on him . but if you have done mistake it will come back at you right away.

Mind sharing the build so I can run in on my thief in wvw

6,0,6,0,2 full dire full venoms and share with group grenth rune for chill or balthazar for burning