Guild Wars 2

Would like some viewpoints regarding the advantages and disadvantages of both the 20/0/30/20/0 (Venom) or 0/0/30/20/20 (Condition) builds. I like them both a lot. Which build is more appropriate for 1v1? I ask this because this is what i enjoy the most whilst PVPing.

Thanks ^^

Depends.If you have your Thieves Guild CD,Venom will be better for 1v1.If you don’t have it,Condition will be better cuz you have Stealth Regeneration,more initiative,higher damage per tick,probably Caltrops trick on 24 sec CD and overal Condition is much more versatile and less dependant on certain CD.

Is this WvW, sPvP? Really in my opinion the only real good thing about 20 in DA is for the reduction on venoms at the same time I don’t feel like 20% reduction on venoms is mandatory. Those are the basic cookie cutter builds but you can run them in a variety of ways. I have 5 points in DA for the poison and I don’t feel like the extra 50 stat points to condi damage is worth that much since it would be about 2 extra dmg per bleed.

That said like ZLE said it depends if Thieves Guild is up and you have venom share on and running ambush then venom build is strong as hell. Then it also depends on what class your fighting also. Overall I would say venom share thieves guild and ambush. Thats my opinion but I can see instances where it wouldnt matter a bunch either if you where fighting another P/D thief then the extra thieves you have out are just something for them to CnD off of.

How are the two builds significantly different from each other?

Honestly they seem pretty similar in approach.

0/0/30/20/20 lacks damage output

venoms are better for 1v1

You can still achieve a good condition damage with the venom build and poison reduces 33% of the opponent heal.

EasymodeX.4062:

How are the two builds significantly different from each other?

Honestly they seem pretty similar in approach.

The venoms build trades less base survivability utilities for more offensive utilities.

The Tank-bleed-trops build is the opposite, higher survivability via utilities but lower disabling potential.

Essentially, venoms tends to be a better pick 1v1, and tanktrops tends to be better in group fights.

I used to roll with P/D and I really enjoyed using venoms. Caltrops I felt were useless if I ever tried using them.

With poison reducing 33% heal it greatly reduced the time of fights against classes with lots of healing ability.

Also I loved immobilize for the people who were actually half decent at dodging C&D and I didn’t have clones or anything else around to hit.

Another point was my focus on stats with P/D build was Condition Damage – Vit – Power. Having power makes the regular damage not completely useless. Initiative was NEVER an issue with this build as long as you trait 2 ini return on stealth.

Hope that helps!

Venom PD was my first ever build. I ran spider venom, signet of shadows, shadow refuge. I changed ages ago however to the 0/0/30/20/20 spec, pretty much before it was known as the PD spec to roll with. I changed venoms to include shadowstep and to be honest I much prefer this setup for the following reasons:
- don’t need to take leeching venoms in shadowarts. There are so many great options here instead
- free up a utility slot. I chose shadowstep for chasing those eles, running from zergs, clutch escapes etc, such a versatile utility, but you could just as easily take caltrops to throw on players manning siege or players trying to res an ally. Blinding powder works too
- more durability
- great access to vigor for excellent dodging (+ more dodgetrops!)

You still have access to poison through shortbow (I prefer this over DD) and you are still capable of, not burst as such, but good spikes of damage. I open with choking gas+cluster at their feet to trigger weakness and put me in combat, switch to PD to trigger geomancy sigil which puts 3 bleeds down, cloak and dagger and immediately unload into them. If you manage this fast enough you sneak attack through your poison field getting some good poison stacks out of it. That’s 8 stacks of bleed, decent poison duration and a good 2000+ raw dmg as an opener. On a squishy with no condition removal (or without the wits to use it) that plus a few autos can almost kill them right there.

However the poster who said that 30/20/20 gives durability and 20/30/20 gives more damage is correct. Just taking leeching venoms gives around 1800 damage from a sneak attack, and this doesn’t include the bleeds, poison damage or the physical damage itself. Add in 1000 damage from mug and 20% condition duration, with the proper runes and food you’ve got a more offensive oriented setup.

For 1v1 I’d still prefer 30/20/20, but only if you keep reapplying poison with shortbow.

Sarrow.2785:

Venom PD was my first ever build. I ran spider venom, signet of shadows, shadow refuge. I changed ages ago however to the 0/0/30/20/20 spec, pretty much before it was known as the PD spec to roll with. I changed venoms to include shadowstep and to be honest I much prefer this setup for the following reasons:
- don’t need to take leeching venoms in shadowarts. There are so many great options here instead
- free up a utility slot. I chose shadowstep for chasing those eles, running from zergs, clutch escapes etc, such a versatile utility, but you could just as easily take caltrops to throw on players manning siege or players trying to res an ally. Blinding powder works too
- more durability
- great access to vigor for excellent dodging (+ more dodgetrops!)

You still have access to poison through shortbow (I prefer this over DD) and you are still capable of, not burst as such, but good spikes of damage. I open with choking gas+cluster at their feet to trigger weakness and put me in combat, switch to PD to trigger geomancy sigil which puts 3 bleeds down, cloak and dagger and immediately unload into them. If you manage this fast enough you sneak attack through your poison field getting some good poison stacks out of it. That’s 8 stacks of bleed, decent poison duration and a good 2000+ raw dmg as an opener. On a squishy with no condition removal (or without the wits to use it) that plus a few autos can almost kill them right there.

However the poster who said that 30/20/20 gives durability and 20/30/20 gives more damage is correct. Just taking leeching venoms gives around 1800 damage from a sneak attack, and this doesn’t include the bleeds, poison damage or the physical damage itself. Add in 1000 damage from mug and 20% condition duration, with the proper runes and food you’ve got a more offensive oriented setup.

For 1v1 I’d still prefer 30/20/20, but only if you keep reapplying poison with shortbow.

This is right on, I tried the normal venom build it is fun but not as durable and i was running 5 in da cause poison is so good on the steal and it gave me 100% duration on bleeds. 30 in SA 20 in acro and 15 in trick. I messed around with 30 DA 25 acro to get the +10% damge when endurance is not full which is like most fights and 15 in Trick.

Right now I am running the stand 30,20,20 setup Which drops my bleeds from 7 secs to 8 which isnt so bad but I am able to drop a agony sigil since bleed ticks only matter at 25% increments i.e. 25%,50%,75% and 100% each of those is 1 extra tick of damage. So im at 80% right now as I hate wasted stats. I dropped the 2 centuar runes i was running for mad king which is same power but -5% duration but it is +10% duration from the 2p bonus.

By dropping the agony sigil I can have access to geomancy which at 75% duration is 12 second bleed 3 stacks (yes please). I run SB also I have tried to see if there was another set to pair with P/D I tried all of them in different ways but I think SB fits the best. You can make S/D and P/P work actually as another set. Your wouldn’t use it for damage but with applied bleed stacks then swap to s/d or P/P and headshot to deny heal and condi removal works really well. P/P is far easier to use since its range interrupt but less survivability but does ok. S/D is good but is melee if your good with getting tac strike off it really messes people up. As it is now though I prefer SB will keep messing with other weapons why I like thief so many options.

I also experimented with 5/0/30/20/15 to hit 100% bleed duration. I ended up abandoning it in favour of the extra 50 cond damage and vigor on steal in trickery. This just seems to synergise so tightly with the build, though 2000 posion damage in steal is very nice also, I reasoned that poison was very accessible through shortbow already. As for 100% bleed duration, I didn’t like paying for the top of the range food every half hour since I was saving for other weapon sets :p

I too love the options for thief builds.

I kind of run a mix of both with 30/0/30/10/0:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VeR3V;1Rw-d0N5FO;9;7T-T9-24B;138A1G
(copy/paste)

It’s primarily for SB use in WvW, but I use P/D as my offhand and it does pretty with that too.

Running all Carrion gear.

I cannot stand the wild bill build where he puts points into venoms and condition duration. I just can’t stand using venoms. The extra cnd duration is nice, but I’d rather pack a blinding powder and put an additional 5 stacks of bleed. I take the points from cnd duration, and place it into cnd damage trait, since it has more useful traits overall, and frees up utility skills. With this build, it’s more survivable, and although fights against other skilled P/D(which is like 1 dude per server at the rate I see skilled ones -.-) are long drawn, but this build always comes up on top against venoms.

The thing about venoms at least spider anyway is that the cd isn’t bad its 45 seconds and if you can nail all 5 strikes thats about 38 seconds just with the food. I run poison sometimes as it makes it alot easier to drop 1 person if you are 1vX. I sometimes run caltrops but to really get effectiveness out of them you need a immobilize. I think cals go best with a d/d condi build. I like to have a bit more control so I am finding spider venom is a bit better. Most people still stand in the caltrops but what if they don’t its wasted especially in a 1v1 I dont feel like cals are super great. The damage is good but its like i drop them on a thiefs shadow refuge and thats about it as far as the one place you can drop them and know its gonna work. In zerg when its chaos they work good to.

Also sigil of geomancy is so good and so cheap I wasn’t running because I had agony to get to 100% duration but dropping down to 7 ticks instead of 8 allowed me try it out and I really like the sigil alot.

I think 75% duration and the points into trick are better spent aswell. I wouldn’t go any lower than 75% duration.

I was kind of skeptical of Venoms as well and traited briefly out of Leeching Venoms and went back. Why? I can get over 2k health back if all Spider Venoms hit (6 with Residual Venom), and I noticed it missing more so than the Hidden Thief trait I tried briefly.

Venoms are a great mid-fight deployment, since we’re P/D we’re in for the long haul anyway.

Wait for your opponent to use a condition removal, CnD, Spider Venom, Sneak Attack… you’ve got some health back (Leeching Venoms, Shadow Rejuvenation), you’ve burst them down some and stacked some weakness.

No it’s not perfect, yes I wish it was condition damage and not duration, but you’ve got good survivability and some ability to burst and heal at the same time.

Why is anyone bothering with venoms? :/