Guild Wars 2

I made some build concepts for my currently low-level Thief for when she enters Maguuma. Ideally I’d be using Viper stats, but I don’t think I can handle the grind to get ascended gear, so for now I’m planning to use exotic zerker with ascended trinkets (far easier to get ofc). Before you say “just don’t use venoms,” I like my characters to have builds based on their overall themes (example: my Ranger is a falconer who uses sword/warhorn and a pet hawk). This one is a poisoner who doesn’t like looking shady and only goes into stealth mode when she needs to. I know. I’m one of those. :P

I’m open to rune/sigil suggestions (other possible runes: Orr? Rata Sum? Nightmare? Thorns?), but Rune of the Thief and Sigils of Accuracy and Venom are probably good. I’d use Sigil of Bursting or Force, but they’re expensive as (insert word here) compared to the ones I’m using.

Are any of these builds I crafted viable?

Daredevil venomshare for dungeons/event zergs: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZIQNAoYVl8MhimYTTwzJw/ELtEmWA4AsAmLhrwXI3Q4IUEA-TBCBwA4U/BwTAAryvBnCgU6bku/gElgJMBBA-e

Daredevil non-venomshare for solo map completion: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZIQNAoYVl8MhimYTTwzJw/ELtE22hK6Mi0CAHgFwcJcF+CB-TBCBwAAeCAS3fIl+mEmgGcKAkoEEn6PYV+BA-e

Non-Daredevil venomshare (I’m not a frequent dodger, but I can use F1 and F2 even though my keyboard sucks thanks to my two mouse macros, so I was wondering…): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZIQNAoYVl8MhimYTTwzJw/EHtE1+QjuRkPEHRRoDgDYBA-TBCBwAAeCAp03kwE0gTBg09Hwp+DWlfSUCCA-e

Thanks for any tips!

Your skill and trait are very similar to the DD Venom Share build I’ve been running. I prefer Channeled Vigor for heal (with Brawler’s Tenacity traited to match), but SoM is good too.

The issue is with stats…you’re just not going to get much out of a Zerker build with venoms. I totally get sticking to the thematic aspect, but I think you’re going to have a terrible time in the jungle. Viper is a nasty grind (which I’m still working on myself), but Sinister gear is a considerably easier farm. When I switched to condi, I started with a Sinister build (which I farmed up in only a week or so of sporadic play). This is completely viable so far. As I get gold and black diamonds, I’m converting Sinister pieces to Viper, optimizing the build.

Thieves are dead.bb

My advice would be to get a condi set if you’re going to use condi venoms. Other than immobilize and stun, venoms just aren’t that good for a power build.

I myself have a condi set.

Full Viper
x6 superior rune of the afflicted. It boosts both poison and bleed.
x1 Sigil of Malice, x 2 Sigil of Earth (contemplating changing). D/D and P/D.

The utilities and build tend to be up in the air, and change depending on the encounter. The build is really about which traits to use where. In general, it looks something like this:

Deadly Arts: Dagger Training, Deadly Trapper, Potent Poison
Shadow Arts: Shadow’s Embrace, Leeching Venoms, Venomous Aura
Daredevil: Weakening Strikes, Escapist Absolution, Lotus Training.

Utilities Skelk Venom, Needle Trap, Spider Venom, Skale Venom, Basilisk Venom.

A build like that can get you through a lot of things. The general thing you’ll want to do is pre-cast venoms. Since venoms sit on top of you for 30 seconds and recharge in 32 seconds, you’ll want to cast them long before you enter combat. Then you can double up your venoms, giving you better burst for the encoutner. A similar thing can be done with needle trap, if you expect to see enemies coming soon.

However, there are times when you’d want to swap one trait for another.

Trait Debate One Dagger Training vs. Trapper’s Respite. Dagger’s auto hits 2.38 times per second, which comes to around 1.57 base poison ticks per second. Needle trap with deadly trapper hits for 0.42 poison ticks per second, but 1.25 bleed ticks per second. Now, while it seems like Dagger Training is the clear cut winner, it isn’t always. If you have to disengage and use another weapon, Trapper’s Respite can pull ahead in use, since you can lay it in wait. You can also double cast the trap from Trapper’s Respite if timed well, adding to its usage. If you’re in a situation where you can pre-cast traps or will need to attack from range a lot, Trapper’s Respite can beat out Dagger Training. If you’re attacking multiple enemies that are too spread out of traps and will be using the dagger mainly, then Dagger Training wins.

Trait Debate Two: Shadow’s Embrace vs. Concealed Defeat. This is a complicated one, since it has to deal with your healing skill. I have skelk venom because of the extra buffs and healing, and the ability to pre-cast can help out. But, the thief has got a lot of good healing skills.

Withdraw: any trait set up is good.
Signet of Malice: Any trait setup is good.
Hide in Shadows: Take Concealed Defeat.
Skelk Venom: Any is good
Channeled Vigor: Brawler’s Tenacity.

Trait Debate 3: Escapist Absolution vs. Impacting Disruption. Turns out, Pulmonary Impact still hits remarkably hard for most condi builds. If you have an off-hand pistol or are good at interrupting with Basilisk venom, then having the Pulmonary impacts dish out a solid 4k hit on basilisk venom. Generally I go with escapists absolution, since I budgeted my equipment and don’’t have a condi-offhand pistol, but it is still an option.

Trait Debate 4 Brawler’s Tenacity vs. Weakening Strikes. The thing with condi builds is that, they still have good use for physical skills. Channeled Vigor is a good heal, Impairing daggers is decent at culling a breakbar and doing damage, and Bandit’s Defense is an excellent all around skill, providing that much needed stun break, block, and stun all in one. It is highly likely that you’ll end up running at least one of these skills, so the decreased recharge and extra endurance is beneficial if you do.

Then we have the utilities. Each of the heals has advantages and disadvantages. Channeled vigor lets you dodge more for Lotus Training and can heal a lot if you have the endurance, so it gets high marks. Signet of Malice has arguably the highest healing, but offers no other benefits. Skelk Venom buffs and spreads, but is an overall weak heal. Hide in Shadows lets you cleanse condis and use stealth skills.

The venoms are usually a no-brainer. But the final untility skill is always up for debate.

#1: Needle Trap. It’s solid, easy to trait for. Does decent damage to enemies stacked or in a line, and the immob + might + vuln is good. Hard to use sometimes, though.
#2: Caltrops. High damage skill. Applies 2.2 bleed ticks per recharge in a large area, but it is really slow to fully apply, and many enemies will either die earlier or just walk out of range. Always a solid option, though.
#3: Smokescreen. Blinds are good. Projectile stopping is good. Smoke Fields are good. A defensive option, always solid.
#4: Bandit’s Defense. It’s a great personal stunbreaker and stunner itself, and with such a short cooldown you’ll find it is up when you need it.
#5: Impairing Daggers: 0.96 poison ticks per activation. But, it fires at range, and the immobilize/slow shreds break bars.
#6: Signet of Shadows for when you just want to run.
#7: Shadow Refuge for when you really need stealth.

With full viper and traits with afflicted runes you end up with 38.5% condition damage alongside of 68.5% bleed and 53.5% x 1.33 poison duration. Add on the sigil of malice, you get 48.5% all, 78.5% bleed, 63.5% x 1.33 poison. Add in the condi food, you get 68.5% all, 98.5% bleed, and 83.5% x 1.33 poison. I am unsure if this increases poison duration over the cap, but assuming it doesn’t, you basically have max poison and bleed duration, with respectable duration for everything else.

Froptimus.6741:

Your skill and trait are very similar to the DD Venom Share build I’ve been running. I prefer Channeled Vigor for heal (with Brawler’s Tenacity traited to match), but SoM is good too.

The issue is with stats…you’re just not going to get much out of a Zerker build with venoms. I totally get sticking to the thematic aspect, but I think you’re going to have a terrible time in the jungle. Viper is a nasty grind (which I’m still working on myself), but Sinister gear is a considerably easier farm. When I switched to condi, I started with a Sinister build (which I farmed up in only a week or so of sporadic play). This is completely viable so far. As I get gold and black diamonds, I’m converting Sinister pieces to Viper, optimizing the build.

Sinister is that easy to get? I have to craft it don’t I? xD

The ascended sinister trinkets, no. You can get those via story achievements. The armor, yes you have to craft.

Viper you have to craft, but getting the recipes isn’t too bad.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

My advice would be to get a condi set if you’re going to use condi venoms. Other than immobilize and stun, venoms just aren’t that good for a power build.

I myself have a condi set.

Full Viper
x6 superior rune of the afflicted. It boosts both poison and bleed.
x1 Sigil of Malice, x 2 Sigil of Earth (contemplating changing). D/D and P/D.

The utilities and build tend to be up in the air, and change depending on the encounter. The build is really about which traits to use where. In general, it looks something like this:

Deadly Arts: Dagger Training, Deadly Trapper, Potent Poison
Shadow Arts: Shadow’s Embrace, Leeching Venoms, Venomous Aura
Daredevil: Weakening Strikes, Escapist Absolution, Lotus Training.

Utilities Skelk Venom, Needle Trap, Spider Venom, Skale Venom, Basilisk Venom.

A build like that can get you through a lot of things. The general thing you’ll want to do is pre-cast venoms. Since venoms sit on top of you for 30 seconds and recharge in 32 seconds, you’ll want to cast them long before you enter combat. Then you can double up your venoms, giving you better burst for the encoutner. A similar thing can be done with needle trap, if you expect to see enemies coming soon.

However, there are times when you’d want to swap one trait for another.

Trait Debate One Dagger Training vs. Trapper’s Respite. Dagger’s auto hits 2.38 times per second, which comes to around 1.57 base poison ticks per second. Needle trap with deadly trapper hits for 0.42 poison ticks per second, but 1.25 bleed ticks per second. Now, while it seems like Dagger Training is the clear cut winner, it isn’t always. If you have to disengage and use another weapon, Trapper’s Respite can pull ahead in use, since you can lay it in wait. You can also double cast the trap from Trapper’s Respite if timed well, adding to its usage. If you’re in a situation where you can pre-cast traps or will need to attack from range a lot, Trapper’s Respite can beat out Dagger Training. If you’re attacking multiple enemies that are too spread out of traps and will be using the dagger mainly, then Dagger Training wins.

Trait Debate Two: Shadow’s Embrace vs. Concealed Defeat. This is a complicated one, since it has to deal with your healing skill. I have skelk venom because of the extra buffs and healing, and the ability to pre-cast can help out. But, the thief has got a lot of good healing skills.

Withdraw: any trait set up is good.
Signet of Malice: Any trait setup is good.
Hide in Shadows: Take Concealed Defeat.
Skelk Venom: Any is good
Channeled Vigor: Brawler’s Tenacity.

Trait Debate 3: Escapist Absolution vs. Impacting Disruption. Turns out, Pulmonary Impact still hits remarkably hard for most condi builds. If you have an off-hand pistol or are good at interrupting with Basilisk venom, then having the Pulmonary impacts dish out a solid 4k hit on basilisk venom. Generally I go with escapists absolution, since I budgeted my equipment and don’’t have a condi-offhand pistol, but it is still an option.

Trait Debate 4 Brawler’s Tenacity vs. Weakening Strikes. The thing with condi builds is that, they still have good use for physical skills. Channeled Vigor is a good heal, Impairing daggers is decent at culling a breakbar and doing damage, and Bandit’s Defense is an excellent all around skill, providing that much needed stun break, block, and stun all in one. It is highly likely that you’ll end up running at least one of these skills, so the decreased recharge and extra endurance is beneficial if you do.

Then we have the utilities. Each of the heals has advantages and disadvantages. Channeled vigor lets you dodge more for Lotus Training and can heal a lot if you have the endurance, so it gets high marks. Signet of Malice has arguably the highest healing, but offers no other benefits. Skelk Venom buffs and spreads, but is an overall weak heal. Hide in Shadows lets you cleanse condis and use stealth skills.

The venoms are usually a no-brainer. But the final utility skill is always up for debate.

#1: Needle Trap. It’s solid, easy to trait for. Does decent damage to enemies stacked or in a line, and the immob + might + vuln is good. Hard to use sometimes, though.
#2: Caltrops. High damage skill. Applies 2.2 bleed ticks per recharge in a large area, but it is really slow to fully apply, and many enemies will either die earlier or just walk out of range. Always a solid option, though.
#3: Smokescreen. Blinds are good. Projectile stopping is good. Smoke Fields are good. A defensive option, always solid.
#4: Bandit’s Defense. It’s a great personal stunbreaker and stunner itself, and with such a short cooldown you’ll find it is up when you need it.
#5: Impairing Daggers: 0.96 poison ticks per activation. But, it fires at range, and the immobilize/slow shreds break bars.
#6: Signet of Shadows for when you just want to run.
#7: Shadow Refuge for when you really need stealth.

With full viper and traits with afflicted runes you end up with 38.5% condition damage alongside of 68.5% bleed and 53.5% x 1.33 poison duration. Add on the sigil of malice, you get 48.5% all, 78.5% bleed, 63.5% x 1.33 poison. Add in the condi food, you get 68.5% all, 98.5% bleed, and 83.5% x 1.33 poison. I am unsure if this increases poison duration over the cap, but assuming it doesn’t, you basically have max poison and bleed duration, with respectable duration for everything else.

Skelk Venom? I wouldn’t run that. I’d probably keep my original heal. Also, mainhand pistol is even more debatable; it’s considered the weakest weapon Thief has at least in PvE. Shortbow also has some condi. Why not use it?

@Blood Red

Trait Debate One
Dagger Training is better than Trappers Respite for many purposes. If you are alone, though, the might from the trap is very nice.

Trait Debate 4
Brawlers Tenacity or Havoc should be the two primary choices. If you run Impairing Daggers, BT is superior and also allows more healing with Channeled Vigor. Pretty easy choice.

Utilities
Like Respite, Needle Trap is good for the might if you are alone. Otherwise, ID is basically king. Besides the conditions and CC, ID also deals respectable direct damage, which no other option has.

Important!
Despite the tooltips, PP does not multiply your poison duration by 1.33. It is a flat 33%, and will not increase beyond the 100% cap.

Runes and Sigils
The extra damage from Berserker or Thorn runes make them superior to other options that increase condi duration, but run what you like. Malice and Bursting are both good sigil options, but I believe Doom and Geomancy are actually better, which is nice since they are cheap. I’ll have to check the numbers on Earth.

KestrelGirl.9267:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

My advice would be to get a condi set if you’re going to use condi venoms. Other than immobilize and stun, venoms just aren’t that good for a power build.

I myself have a condi set.

Full Viper
x6 superior rune of the afflicted. It boosts both poison and bleed.
x1 Sigil of Malice, x 2 Sigil of Earth (contemplating changing). D/D and P/D.

The utilities and build tend to be up in the air, and change depending on the encounter. The build is really about which traits to use where. In general, it looks something like this:

Deadly Arts: Dagger Training, Deadly Trapper, Potent Poison
Shadow Arts: Shadow’s Embrace, Leeching Venoms, Venomous Aura
Daredevil: Weakening Strikes, Escapist Absolution, Lotus Training.

Utilities Skelk Venom, Needle Trap, Spider Venom, Skale Venom, Basilisk Venom.

A build like that can get you through a lot of things. The general thing you’ll want to do is pre-cast venoms. Since venoms sit on top of you for 30 seconds and recharge in 32 seconds, you’ll want to cast them long before you enter combat. Then you can double up your venoms, giving you better burst for the encoutner. A similar thing can be done with needle trap, if you expect to see enemies coming soon.

However, there are times when you’d want to swap one trait for another.

Trait Debate One Dagger Training vs. Trapper’s Respite. Dagger’s auto hits 2.38 times per second, which comes to around 1.57 base poison ticks per second. Needle trap with deadly trapper hits for 0.42 poison ticks per second, but 1.25 bleed ticks per second. Now, while it seems like Dagger Training is the clear cut winner, it isn’t always. If you have to disengage and use another weapon, Trapper’s Respite can pull ahead in use, since you can lay it in wait. You can also double cast the trap from Trapper’s Respite if timed well, adding to its usage. If you’re in a situation where you can pre-cast traps or will need to attack from range a lot, Trapper’s Respite can beat out Dagger Training. If you’re attacking multiple enemies that are too spread out of traps and will be using the dagger mainly, then Dagger Training wins.

Trait Debate Two: Shadow’s Embrace vs. Concealed Defeat. This is a complicated one, since it has to deal with your healing skill. I have skelk venom because of the extra buffs and healing, and the ability to pre-cast can help out. But, the thief has got a lot of good healing skills.

Withdraw: any trait set up is good.
Signet of Malice: Any trait setup is good.
Hide in Shadows: Take Concealed Defeat.
Skelk Venom: Any is good
Channeled Vigor: Brawler’s Tenacity.

Trait Debate 3: Escapist Absolution vs. Impacting Disruption. Turns out, Pulmonary Impact still hits remarkably hard for most condi builds. If you have an off-hand pistol or are good at interrupting with Basilisk venom, then having the Pulmonary impacts dish out a solid 4k hit on basilisk venom. Generally I go with escapists absolution, since I budgeted my equipment and don’’t have a condi-offhand pistol, but it is still an option.

Trait Debate 4 Brawler’s Tenacity vs. Weakening Strikes. The thing with condi builds is that, they still have good use for physical skills. Channeled Vigor is a good heal, Impairing daggers is decent at culling a breakbar and doing damage, and Bandit’s Defense is an excellent all around skill, providing that much needed stun break, block, and stun all in one. It is highly likely that you’ll end up running at least one of these skills, so the decreased recharge and extra endurance is beneficial if you do.

Then we have the utilities. Each of the heals has advantages and disadvantages. Channeled vigor lets you dodge more for Lotus Training and can heal a lot if you have the endurance, so it gets high marks. Signet of Malice has arguably the highest healing, but offers no other benefits. Skelk Venom buffs and spreads, but is an overall weak heal. Hide in Shadows lets you cleanse condis and use stealth skills.

The venoms are usually a no-brainer. But the final utility skill is always up for debate.

#1: Needle Trap. It’s solid, easy to trait for. Does decent damage to enemies stacked or in a line, and the immob + might + vuln is good. Hard to use sometimes, though.
#2: Caltrops. High damage skill. Applies 2.2 bleed ticks per recharge in a large area, but it is really slow to fully apply, and many enemies will either die earlier or just walk out of range. Always a solid option, though.
#3: Smokescreen. Blinds are good. Projectile stopping is good. Smoke Fields are good. A defensive option, always solid.
#4: Bandit’s Defense. It’s a great personal stunbreaker and stunner itself, and with such a short cooldown you’ll find it is up when you need it.
#5: Impairing Daggers: 0.96 poison ticks per activation. But, it fires at range, and the immobilize/slow shreds break bars.
#6: Signet of Shadows for when you just want to run.
#7: Shadow Refuge for when you really need stealth.

With full viper and traits with afflicted runes you end up with 38.5% condition damage alongside of 68.5% bleed and 53.5% x 1.33 poison duration. Add on the sigil of malice, you get 48.5% all, 78.5% bleed, 63.5% x 1.33 poison. Add in the condi food, you get 68.5% all, 98.5% bleed, and 83.5% x 1.33 poison. I am unsure if this increases poison duration over the cap, but assuming it doesn’t, you basically have max poison and bleed duration, with respectable duration for everything else.

Skelk Venom? I wouldn’t run that. I’d probably keep my original heal. Also, mainhand pistol is even more debatable; it’s considered the weakest weapon Thief has at least in PvE. Shortbow also has some condi. Why not use it?

The pistol is underrated.
#1: The pistol auto has higher directt DPS as the shortbow against a single target (178/0.82 vs. 196 /0.95). This is before bleed.
#2: Bleed. It isn’t much, but for condi builds it is good.
#3: Sneak Attack is a great way to open out of stealth.
#4: Shadow Strike works as a good disengage skill and inflicts torment.

I’ve always found it a gigantic pain in the rear to use the shortbow as a condi weapon. First, because cluster bomb takes forever, and is difficult to aim. Second, choking gas only does the same condi damage as a 1 × 8 poison attack, and with a 4 initiative cost it has an effective recharge of 4 seconds. I find continually that, if I am not dodging and death blossoming all over a group, that I need to hang back, and with that the pistol auto will have a higher sustained condi DPS over the shortbow.

Zodryn.4216:

@
Like Respite, Needle Trap is good for the might if you are alone. Otherwise, ID is basically king. Besides the conditions and CC, ID also deals respectable direct damage, which no other option has.

Important!
Despite the tooltips, PP does not multiply your poison duration by 1.33. It is a flat 33%, and will not increase beyond the 100% cap.

Runes and Sigils
The extra damage from Berserker or Thorn runes make them superior to other options that increase condi duration, but run what you like. Malice and Bursting are both good sigil options, but I believe Doom and Geomancy are actually better, which is nice since they are cheap. I’ll have to check the numbers on Earth.

The hard part about the utility is that each one has some pretty big strengths and weaknesses.

Needle Trap It immobilizes, unloads all of its condis in an instant, it occupies trait buffs that otherwise don’t go to much, it can hit 5 targets all gathered in a group, and it certain situations it can be precast. Problems are that it requires point blank range to use, it is difficult to aim and use properly, and if you find you really want panic strikes then without the traits it offers very little.

Caltrops: This is the highest damaging condi skill the thief has, no trait bonuses needed. It persists, has a large AoE, and it cripples. Cons are that it takes so long to even dish out its condis that often times, the enemy is dead before caltrops could take full effect, making the skill a lot weaker in practice.

ID: It breaks bars, is usable at a distance, and is a combo finisher so you can get some burns/confuse/poison out of it, and it deals a bit of direct damage. Cons are that it only hits one target, and as far as condi damage goes it is the lowest.

The reason why I listed those as debates is because I each time I switch out one for the other, I always find myself wanting to use the other utility. For the most part I default to needle trap or Smoke Screen, but against the more stubborn bosses I’ll use caltrops and against the more mobile enemies I’ll use ID.

Now, as far as the rune sets go, I seriously doubt that berserker runes are always better than condi duration runes. Let me explain, with math.

Technically condi duration has a diminishing return, in that the static additions are worth less and less the more you have of it. So while Sigil of Malice effectively increases your DPS by 10% at 100% condi duration, at 190% condi duration it only increases your overall condi duration by 5.26% of itself, or rather a 5.26% increase in damage.

That… is right at the cap. As it happens, the condi duration from most runes starts at 10%, meaning that unless you go over the cap with condition duration, adding 10% to the duration is better than adding 5% extra damage.

Now, if you have a build that has capped its relevant condition damage durations, but somehow has not done so using a rune set, then it would be better to use Berserker Runes. Although this raises an issue: Long ago, I calculated the damage of various condis when comparing sinister vs. viper at full might scenarios. The only way to reach 100% condi duration without a rune set is to use full Viper, but using Sinister + the rune set would give you the following advantages in damages:

Bleed: 8.4%
Burning: 6.7%
Poison: 7.1%
Confusion: 7.4%, 6.8%
Torment: 8.4%

All of which are higher than 5% that Berserker Runes would give.

As of right now, I haven’t seen a shred of math to prove that Berserker Runes are better, anywhere. And all of the math I have done says that they are not better. Technically, if you were to compare the sets as far as effective direct damage goes, then viper + berserker runes is 10% more effective power. That basically means that Death Blossom will do 800 damage direct instead of 727 damage direct. Compare that to its condition component of 8,580 bleed vs. 9,300 bleed, and you’ll see my skepticism of the value of direct damage here.

So yeah, I went with afflicted runes. Mostly because thief condi damage is divided heavily between bleed and poison.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

As of right now, I haven’t seen a shred of math to prove that Berserker Runes are better, anywhere. And all of the math I have done says that they are not better.

:D Give me a bit to check my spreadsheet. I don’t think I put Afflicted runes in it for comparison. The sheet calculates DPS with inputs for every condition related skill, trait, and popular rune/sigil combination with selectable stats, might, alacrity and quickness uptime, a few rotation options, and more!

So I’m not actually going to get the math. I’m going to get a picture that asserts that the logic I have is wrong without explaining how.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

So I’m not actually going to get the math. I’m going to get a picture that asserts that the logic I have is wrong without explaining how.

Nope, you’ll get the whole sheet to analyze my logic and mess with as you please. I’ll post the link when I finish updating a couple of things. I somehow didn’t have Afflicted on there before.

You’ll be happy to know that Afflicted is definitely better than Berserker. Depending on the rest of your gear, it is better than Thorn until you get 4 to 5 stacks of the Thorn bonus.

Hehe. Thank goodness. You all can stop mathing now. Thanks Zodryn!

Here you go.

You can make a copy to your own google drive to edit stuff. Please let me know if anything seems off.

Immediately, you have Skale Venom mislabeled as Skelk Venom and you have the duration of torment taking the duration of bleed instead of torment.

Other than that, this reminds me of the impracticality of it all. From the looks of things, it looks like you hybridized viper and sinister, and went with geomancy/agony for additional sigils, and then have an hereto unknown rotation that somehow procs geomancy every 9 seconds, and I have to dig to find precisely what I am supposed to be doing with it.

Fact is, the Berserker Rune vs. Other rune debate is exceedingly simple. Just go by a skill by skill basis: On each skill, which does more: the other rune setup, or the berserker rune setup? Once you have that for the skills in the rotation, debates over.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Immediately, you have Skale Venom mislabeled as Skelk Venom and you have the duration of torment taking the duration of bleed instead of torment.

I’ll fix the mislabeling. The sheet used to have far fewer options and bleed and torment duration pulled from the same cell. I’ll fix that too.

Other than that, this reminds me of the impracticality of it all. From the looks of things, it looks like you hybridized viper and sinister, and went with geomancy/agony for additional sigils, and then have an hereto unknown rotation that somehow procs geomancy every 9 seconds, and I have to dig to find precisely what I am supposed to be doing with it.

How is any of it impractical? Geo should be every 10s. I’ll fix that, and add something to indicate if it’s on both sets or just one (in which case it’d be every 20s). The rotation is basically use everything off cooldown, and use weapon skills based on initiative cost. E.×. Death Blossom is used every 4s (kitten filter…) so that it is a sustainable rotation, Backstab every 6s, and if you want both, you get one of each every 10s. AA is every 1.68s, and is altered by quickness uptime and other skills in rotation. I’ll add some notes so it’s more clear.

Fact is, the Berserker Rune vs. Other rune debate is exceedingly simple. Just go by a skill by skill basis: On each skill, which does more: the other rune setup, or the berserker rune setup? Once you have that for the skills in the rotation, debates over.

It’s much easier if you just swap the runes in the sheet and see how it affects the final DPS number. No need to go skill by skill, but if you want to do that, more power to you. The more important thing to consider is that different runes may have different ideal stats and sigils.

Edit: Fixed everything mentioned. Lotus Training had the same duration issue, which was also fixed. I tried to clarify things a bit, and added multiple other tabs with some other rune and sigil combos.

Okay, here’s what I think I want to do while I level.
Staying with d/d/sb, I didn’t like the feel of MH pistol very much :/ (Same with Warrior rifle. I guess I’m just not a firearms person. Then again I want to make an Engi sometime so I know how it works… xD)
Signet of Malice/Spider Venom/Skale Venom/Caltrops/Basilisk Venom
Once I get Daredevil, if I decide I really want to run it, I’ll switch my heal to Channeled Vigor and will run Impairing Daggers over Caltrops in some situations.
Traitlines: Deadly Arts, Critical Strikes, and Shadow Arts, in that order (unless I find myself too squishy without Shadow Arts, which I probably will). I won’t take any trap traits because I’m using Caltrops (which sounds way better than Needle Trap).
Rune of the Afflicted
Sigils of Geomancy and Agony

Thanks for the budget suggestions! Now I just have to figure out how to get from level 25 to 30 so I can head into Fields of Ruin, because I only just got my login reward tomes and I got rekt every time I tried EotM… xD

Have you thought about using Rampager until you get Viper?

Shadow.1345:

Have you thought about using Rampager until you get Viper?

I could. But I already got some also-cheap exotic zerk weapons to transmute (3g each for 2 daggers and shortbow)… and I’m perpetually low on gold. xD