Guild Wars 2

Lets see a preview of what venomshare looks like in game

Step 1 – Cast venoms and PRAY that all allies are close enough to all get them.
Step 2 – Attack to apply venoms and PRAY that most of them hit.
Step 3 – Spend the next 36-45 seconds using nothing but dodgerolls to stay alive.
Step 4 – Die . . . If you didnt run far enough.

http://youtu.be/HR7bnftagIQ

Let me add in if that were a zerk everyone would have aegis/dodging the first volley of attacks. full waste of venoms and a slot in the zerg. lesson learned? reroll.

Sounds as though you could use some practice with strategic venom use and/or mixing and matching for situational uses.

But don’t you see?! You just poisoned like 6 guys, chilled like 4, and gained some life! That’s definitely worth giving up all of your utilities for 36 seconds!

(Only slightly less effective than untraited : http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenade_Kit; and for the cheap price of 60 trait points and all utilities!)

Venoms are “there”!!!

Interceptor.2653:

Sounds as though you could use some practice with strategic venom use and/or mixing and matching for situational uses.

Venoms last 30 secs with a 45(36 traited) cd. Why cast it mid fight and wait the cd out instead of precasting it? We could use them strategically if they had a lower cd or better effects…. Tut…. Trash unless traited.

Well, first of all don’t trigger all venoms at once. Leeching Venoms triggers only on 1 stack of a venom even if you have all your venoms active and proc multiple venoms at once. I suspect this is to counter burst…most likely it’s bugged and Anet is leaving it for what it is.

The Venom heal NEEDS a lower cooldown for sure for it to be competitive with Withdraw/Hide in Shadows….the developer reasoning for giving it 45 second cooldown was because “all other venoms have a 45 second cooldown aswell”….that’s just kittening BULLkitten…. sadface

Y U NO LISTEN ANET Y U NO LISTEEEEN xD

Interceptor.2653:

Sounds as though you could use some practice with strategic venom use and/or mixing and matching for situational uses.

Isn’t the point of vs to use it on the stack to give them to the most possible allies? That would seem to be counter to using them strategicslly because the situation that calls for their use and the situation where you can give them to a fair number of teamates will rarely coincide.

MrAmputatoes.6031:

Venoms last 30 secs with a 45(36 traited) cd. Why cast it mid fight and wait the cd out instead of precasting it? We could use them strategically if they had a lower cd or better effects…. Tut…. Trash unless traited.

Listen, I can’t play your Thief for you. If you want to just roll your face across the number keys and collect loot bags, I’ve heard that Warriors are good.

Meanwhile, the fact that you have a multitude of venom options, can hold them for 30s, that they are all instant-cast except Basilisk, etc…. gives you a lot of options.

skelk venom = 9573 hp per minute heal (16350 traited (1 strike/leeching))
skelk venom = 159 hp per second heal (272 traited (1 strike/leeching))

withdraw = 18100 hp per minute heal
withdraw = 301 hp per second heal

Hide in shadows = 12440 hp per minute (17014 traited)
Hide in shadows = 207 hp per second heal (284 traited)

If you count the damage/mitigation from condition removal and avoidance from stealth….. the other heals not only BEAT skelk venom but blow it out of the water.

Now is that really worth sacrificing all your defense for ? a bunch of maybe hits and maybe buffs if allies are close enough? low hp, low defense, no invulnerbilty, no protection, no aegis, no blocks etc etc.

Im gonna pass. i guess venoms are “almost there” STILL. Perhaps put them on f2 f3 f4 and replace them with real utilities. right now they are just sub par and garbage UNLESS you use 30/x/30/x/x build and even then your defenseless.

Might i add that skelk venom is probably about 25% less due to half the strikes of venom not hitting.

Interceptor.2653:

MrAmputatoes.6031:

Venoms last 30 secs with a 45(36 traited) cd. Why cast it mid fight and wait the cd out instead of precasting it? We could use them strategically if they had a lower cd or better effects…. Tut…. Trash unless traited.

Listen, I can’t play your Thief for you. If you want to just roll your face across the number keys and collect loot bags, I’ve heard that Warriors are good.

Meanwhile, the fact that you have a multitude of venom options, can hold them for 30s, that they are all instant-cast except Basilisk, etc…. gives you a lot of options.

Except for the fact that venoms still are trash unless traited. Why spends 30+ trait points to help lack luster skills instead of training for what can actually help you. Taking venoms over stuns breaks, condition removal, on demand stealth, ect. as well as the need traits to even make the venoms viable is doing nothing but gimping yourself. Instead of traits for might and leeching which does nothing for team utility than increase damage, why not steal/ corrupt boons or transfer a condition? Besides warrior amd guardians stack team might much faster on much shorter CDs and without trait investment.

Venom share is lackluster and extremely kitten for yourself and your sad team utility.

i used to run venomshare in wvw. didnt like it. defenseless and boring watching with auto attack bow.

now to the people who say cast it one at a time….thats not giving your party their best chanceat winning. they want to crush people not slowly add stuff on. yes for the leeching part on yourself…but its not about you. its about the party

pre cast them? worst case scenario you get to batle and they JUST wear off. then ur 6-15 seconds away from recasting. lil risky. also need a GOOD TIGHT party to listen and stay close. not likely but still annoying even if possible.

all n all this build isnt worth the play. id rather do d/d and just CND backstab for 16k. thats much more productive to just take out a mesmer or ele real quick or even necro before they hit extra HP several times.

anet is dellusional. id rather have a guardian / warrior any and everyday than a venom share thief. HAH! its that bad STILL. venoms are almost there. like i said. f2 f3 f4 them or they wont be used. atleast not used and be as good as another class in a 8v8 team

OOOH! i 4got! there is another way to make these venoms really work. have to increase the share pool from 5- prolly 10 or so. that would make the team utilitiy be on par with another class like warrior/guard….until then its a wasted spot in a group.

MrAmputatoes.6031:

Except for the fact that venoms still are trash unless traited.

This is patently false. It’s usually not worth taking a whole bar of them, but venoms are situationally useful for a number of non-share builds. Basilisk and Devourer can be nice occasionally for a non-condition S/P build, for example.

And even if it were true, what’s the problem? Trait for venoms if you want to use them.

Why spends 30+ trait points to help lack luster skills instead of training for what can actually help you. Taking venoms over stuns breaks, condition removal, on demand stealth, ect. as well as the need traits to even make the venoms viable is doing nothing but gimping yourself. Instead of traits for might and leeching which does nothing for team utility than increase damage, why not steal/ corrupt boons or transfer a condition? Besides warrior amd guardians stack team might much faster on much shorter CDs and without trait investment.

And this is the real problem: you want to be awesome. That’s cool, there are specs for that. Unfortunately it doesn’t mean that venomshare is garbage, though. There are real-world benefits to giving venoms and utility to five people that are working together.

Travlane.5948:

i used to run venomshare in wvw. didnt like it. defenseless and boring watching with auto attack bow. […] all n all this build isnt worth the play. id rather do d/d and just CND backstab for 16k.

That’s cool, man. Nobody is going to stop you from doing that. FYI, backstab builds are exactly the same effectiveness regardless of whether or not you jump on an internet forum and poop on a build that you don’t enjoy.

actually venoms are trash. the immob one is ok on d/d gank but 45 secs is outrageous.

bottom line and you cant really argue this……. the CD and amount of strikes plus the effects/conditions are directly toned down due to the possibility of running venom share.

if there were NO venom share in game then they would be MUCH stronger. strong enough to….lets say…run by themselves and be viable in their own right WITHOUT traits.

Travlane.5948:

actually venoms are trash.

Actually they aren’t. See I can do that, too.

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

actually venoms are trash.

Actually they aren’t. See I can do that, too.

Then you better follow up with your reasoning for that statement as he did after the single sentence you quoted.

Maugetarr.6823:

Interceptor.2653:

Travlane.5948:

actually venoms are trash.

Actually they aren’t. See I can do that, too.

Then you better follow up with your reasoning for that statement as he did after the single sentence you quoted.

i did before.

Immobilizes – venom vs warriors versions

THIEF – Devourer Venom – 45 sec CD – 4 seconds of immob (if both hit)

WARRIOR – Flurry – 10 sec CD – 4 seconds immob (8×265dmg 8 stacks bleed)
WARRIOR – Throw Bolos – 25 sec CD – 4 seconds immob

Poison – venom vs necro version

THIEF – Spider Venom – 45 sec CD – 7 secs poison – 5 attacks ( so almost 10 sec total)
NECRO – Signet of Spite – Passive: 180power-263 dmg- bleed 2 stacks 10s Blind: 5s Crippled 10s Poison 10s Vulnerability 10s Weakness 10s
NECRO – Dark Water – 7 secs poison – 15 sec cooldown

Torment – venom vs mesmer

THIEF – Scale Venom – 6.5 seconds torment – 3 attacks – vulnerability x 3
MEMSER – Illusionary Counter – 5 stacks torment 8 seconds – 12 second CD

Stun – venom vs mesmer

THIEF – Basilisk Venom – 1.5 sec stun – 45 sec CD (thats it lol)
MESMER – Static field – 4 secs of AOE 1200 range 2s stun UNBLOCKABLE- 40s CD
MESMER – Magic bullet – Dmg67 Blind: 5s Daze: 2s Stun: 2s Number of bounces: 2
and only a 25s cooldown
WARRIOR – Earthshaker – 10 sec CD – 2s stun
WARRIOR – Skull Crack – 10 sec CD – 3s stun
WARRIOR – Whirling STrike – 10 sec CD – 2s stun
MESMER – Sig of domination -45 sec cd – 3s stun- 1200 range- +condi dmg passive

so as you can see venoms are a joke. there is really no wiggle room in this as all our range is 900 and venoms are not only longer CD’s but less effects and less total time of given conditions etc.

ill try this again…

VENOMS ARE MADE WEAK ,,,,,and only bc somebody MIGHT take VENOMOUS AURA and share them. without Venoumous Aura anet would have made venoms strong in their own right. but for now they are a joke….. and even in VA builds a joke bc u have NO defense no blocks no invul no invis no condi removal no aegis no protection no high defense no high hp no high armor ……. thats alot of “no’s”

I lost all hope for venoms once i heard they said “we felt that venoms were almost there”. Then i saw the immobilize change and couldn’t stop laughing.

Still have hope for traps though, but the fact they only touched one of them in more than a year pretty much shows i’m crazy to still have faith.

almost there means no defense.

when they say venoms are almost there. in their “anet style minds” i believe they MEAN to say VENOMOUS AURA trait is almost there. bc …. venomous aura is a nice trait for allies. very VERY bad for the thief and slightly worse than ahving a guardian/warrior instead of the thief in party. but still its interesting. not more useful than another class …but unique.

i disagree on some points you made up
1. venom share are strong in organize group(15+). because it enable you to control with whom you share it. with 30,0,30,0,10 build you give your allies 8 stack of might (+280 condition and power dmg), leeching venom which gives (even if all venoms active) ~2200 health, also while bursting it immobilize 3-5 ppl for 10 seconds (3 stack max), stun 1-2 seconds and put conditions on them poison and torment and vulnerability
so basically the group can down fast 3-5 ppl before they can react or get helped
2. in small group less than 15 or in pugs group its shine less as you must stay close to your group and you have hard time to control the share and the burst with them.
3. if time it right before the clash about 10-15 seconds before you activate the venom , than 3-5 seconds until your group doing its burst .so you have 16-23 seconds before its recharge
4. might – dont underestimate it – empower usually ends before the clash but venom will last
5. with the venoms on you, you can take down easily the backline ppl and when your group see 1-2 ppl immobilize they surely will stack on you to finish the kill fast

now the bad parts
1. its one build only so no versatile game play.
2. its need well organize group which team-up with the necro ,engineer range conditions attacks
3. the new healing skills wont fit in this build as you have no defense. you cant control when your group is needed for health and not all of them need it at the same time. and at the first burst no one needs it.
4. its not designed for solo or small scale fight which thieves supposed to shine at

dont try to compare thief skills to other profession alone but as whole. if thief had skill which stun for 3 seconds every 10 seconds we would have been murdering ppl too fast. but i do agree thief really need rethinking and much more buff to scale up with the meta anet created and venom its not the answer.

my conclusion anet took the easy way trying to buff the thief group play. instead of really think about thief role in the group they just look on what they have and try to “buff” it with something hardly anyone uses
few examples of what could have been done:
thief can contribute to the group with stealth as they master of it (not mesmer) so why not give thief that role
thief has high dmg output so why not share it with his party like signet that gives allies more 280 power (more than warrior/ guardians)
thief can share maybe more fury and vigor up time
and why not share high crit dmg or some % with the group
i think know why anet have problem with the thief (its not the stealth). any real buff they want to give the a thief which play with a group is gonna be misused in the hand of solo thief

its still not as much help as any other class would give in that same 36-45 seconds. so its quite horrid.

in the first 3 seconds of a fight…yes venomshare will be more productive than most classes. after 10 seconds mostly every other class outperforms it bc u are stuck with auto attack and NO defense. name me any class andill show how it outperforms venomshare. not like you need all that leeching at the start of a bttle anyway. and what ur gonna use it half way thru? ok then the first half of the battle ur just auto attacking and not doing diddly. its a horrible build. its interesting and has potention but not until they make a few changes with venoms basic functioning etc.