Guild Wars 2

Hi, I’m a thief since release and have always been looking for ways to spice up my build. I enjoy the risk/reward of power thief where position is key, and I also like the condition builds regardless of how terrible they are in s/tpvp. One thing I have not been able to enjoy is the venom build. Why? Because I have to spec HEAVILY into it just to bubble it’s effectiveness over the demand of a “good build”. Even then it’s not all that great. I understand venoms are utility and not so much dmg with the exception of skale venom where it applies torment, but I feel like their cooldowns don’t justify their effects and their trait investments are far off as well. So, I propose some changes.

Skills

Spider venom- only real use is with leeching venoms due to high number of hits. We have more than enough poison to go around without slotting this in. Bump number of hits to 6, atleast it can provide some small healing on the offence.

Ice drake venom- I can see why the chill duration might be low, but we already have devourer venom which does a FAR better job than ice drake due to duration and overall effect. (Kick me for repeating this but), replace with [Karka venom]- Transfer condition on attack. 3 strikes. A way for venom support to handle group condition removal, and vet karka’s do transfer conditions on attack so it’s still fitting. Cooldown 45 seconds. Even on a non-venom build this would do wonders for thieves who like to play dirty and need the extra condi clear.

Devourer venom- Great skill, no reason to touch.

Skale venom- Kinda lacking in various ways. The torment is short in stacks and duration, and the vulnerability is hardly noticeable. This venom almost seems like a cover up for condi removal rather than actual pressure. Bump torment duration to 7 seconds per hit base, vulnerability stacks to 2 per hit. Right now, this is at best a 36 cooldown for 3 stacks of vulnerability and 3 stacks of torment each wearing off long before the 50% recharge mark.

Skelk venom- Great idea, except it gimps the thief drastically for using this. Thief needs a lot of mobility and/or stealth to avoid certain death. This skill has a cast time, and in the long run heals for a ton less than HiS or withdraw assuming you didn’t miss any hits from skelk venom. After 135 seconds Withdraw heals for 39096 and removes movement impairing conditions as well as evading. HiS heals for 23040 as well as breaking target and curing 3 damaging conditions. Skelk venom heals for 20370 if every hit makes contact. (math done with 0 healing power, using wiki for healing numbers, using heal immediately when off cd, and excluding poison’s reduction in healing.)

I don’t think bumping the heal is the issue, I think the long term sustain this skill grants is the issue, you can use it for a quick burst and then you have to wait a long long time before you can burst heal up again. Cooldown reduction would just be a lazy fix and likely lead to imbalance later on. I think a trait rework could solve this issue even if it’s not 100% appropriate.

Basilisk venom- Great skill but my only suggestion is to make it indefinitely stun regardless of stability. Stun breakers can still break free of it, but it’s a 45 second cooldown for a 1.5 second stun, it should atleast play by it’s own rules for applying petrify vs. stun effect.

Traits

Improvisation- just… terrible. I’d personally say redo this entire trait. It’s way to random to be worked into any build.

Quick venoms- Good but since most traits for utility skills usually come in pairs, I feel like merging venous strength and quick venoms would be suitable. Open up more ways to use venoms with an additional trait to give us options just like how SA trait line feels. Traits shouldn’t be cookie cut for certain builds, there should be numerous good traits and you pick the ones you like not the ones that are obviously better than the rest.

Venomous strength- Change to [Ice drake venom]- Venom strikes chill. This is the equivalent of Chilling darkness from necro but for venoms both in trait investment (adept traits) as well as group wide effect (per succesfful hit with venom, instead of an aoe field or skill). Duration of chill could be .75 seconds per strike.

Leeching venoms- I believe the healing power scaling should be increased and it should naturally increase the healing power of those with your venoms while they are active. Healing power increase (2*10+1 per level). If you use up your last strike, the healing power bonus goes away. This can add to strategic play, say you are asked to stack for a water field or wish to use a healing skill or plan to enter stealth for shadow’s rejuvenation and want to add a little kick to it. The healing power effect could apply right before the skill takes place, to further buff skelk venom. I know it seems odd to add both a siphon AND healing power bump in the same trait, but the idea is support as well as knowing when to use venoms. I think this trait would reward those who time their venoms a lot vs immediately using them when off cd.

Venomous aura- For the sake of wvw I wish it went past 5 but it’s really good in certain dungeon encounters and has a place in pvp with a lower player count. Good as is.

Residual venom- 30 point investment, to last 1 strike more. I don’t even think it lasting 2 strikes more would cut it, it’s an odd trait for such a hefty investment. BV doesn’t stack in duration so it isn’t all that impressive, and none of the other venoms aside from Devourer venom get any real bonus from this (over 50% duration increase, with 3 strikes of immobilize lasting 2.6 seconds base vs 2 strikes lasting 2 seconds base). I think this could have some bonus after spending all the charges such as

[Residual venom]- Gain a bonus effect when you use up your venoms.
-Spider- Every 5th attack applies poison. Poison duration 4 seconds. Effect duration 10 seconds.
-Skale- Gain regeneration for 6 seconds. 2 stacks.
-Karka-15% chance to transfer condition on hit for 3 seconds.
-Devourer- Gain might when attacking immobile foes. 8 seconds of might per target hit that is immobile (stun, immobilize, etc).
-Basilisk Venom- 50% crit chance against stunned foes for 3 seconds.
Skelk- 25% chance to gain health on hit for 6 seconds. [40+(0.3* healing power)]

My only intention is to open up new play with venoms and not just for venom builds. Even on a full venom build this would drastically lower your ability to ability to evade and keep a high uptime on stealth in exchange for some bulky sustain and recovery. Some things may seem over the top and unreasonable, feel free to provide criticism or your own thoughts on what you think venoms lack and/or what should be done with them.

Bypassing stability is too strong especially on a 45 seconds cooldown.

Improvisation: I would rather see this changed to the simple “recharges one utility skill.”

Venomous Strength: I would like to see this merged with Residual Venoms, and replace the Might with a bonus based on how many unused venom stacks you’re sitting on.

runeblade.7514:

Bypassing stability is too strong especially on a 45 seconds cooldown.

Maybe pairing up a cleave stun with a stability-ignoring skill I can see that. Like I said just thoughts, truthfully I had sat there for hours thinking of what BV can use as a residual venom and that’s the best I thought up with.

Gulesave.5073:

Improvisation: I would rather see this changed to the simple “recharges one utility skill.”

Venomous Strength: I would like to see this merged with Residual Venoms, and replace the Might with a bonus based on how many unused venom stacks you’re sitting on.

Still seems a bit too rng, which from what I understand engi’s would love to get away from.

I too wish the 2 were merged, amoung other traits. It’s strange how many skill specific traits for other profession often have double bonuses while we get at most 1.