Guild Wars 2

I have always mained the assassin/rogue/thief classes in every game I’ve ever played both online and off. When I saw what thief could do I was very happy and gave it a try. From what I’ve experienced, D/D has a hard time in PvP, and because of that I currently main D/P while dabbling in S/D and staff. For me, part of the fantasy of rogue/assassin/thief is wielding two daggers. Does anyone have a power d/d build they wouldn’t mind sharing as well as some tips and tricks when it comes to playing d/d? Any help is greatly appreciated!

If you are planning to make a d/d power is just going to be a strictly worse d/p build.
Looking at the difference between the weapons, you have:
3: D/D, a condi applying low damage + evade skill vs. D/P engage/blind+relatively high dps skill on . d/p wins here for power, only real advantage is the evade frames.
4: D/D, is basically a waste of initiative. D/P: interrupt key skills (heals long channesl etc.)
5: D/D: the only real “advantage” that D/D offers, cheaper and more damage form of stealth (but can be blocked/evaded etc.) compared to D/P which grants a smoke field + blinds.

You CAN play with d/d as a power build, but you are simply going to be gimping yourself.

If you want to play d/d you should really try to think about what the kit offers, and how to maximize it. (hint: the 3 skill can be really good. Just not in a power build)

D/D power is dead – died on June 23th 2015.

It’s still good in PvE though, although everything else is better.

Since you don’t know me: rank 3100 wvw player all but 100 ranks in real wvw, not EotM, have been a solo roamer (power D/D) for 2 years – not possible anymore.

if you want/like play d/d just play it and don’t listen to anyone. If you can understand what you did wrong and progress – it’s playable

alemfi, I basically thought that it was a worse form of d/p because d/p had an interrupt and better stealthing mechanics/lower ini costs, I figured it would be gimping myself but I was hoping there was someone out there that had a good idea on how to pull it off effectively xD… Jana, I would totally do it in PvE if I PvE’d, but I am not interested sadly :< I’m 99% PvP. Oh well, maybe D/D will be viable again some day, thanks for the replies.

Edit: Are there any condi d/d builds that are still viable perhaps? Thinking about it based on what you said, alemfi. Trying to keep my dream alive haha

right before HoT was release i was learning to play thief and started off as d/d as is one of the hardest set to play. i saw a lot of awesome montages that inspire me but fail to realize how hard it was to play d/d. i got chew in wvw pretty bad and i was forced to go back to the drawing board. so to you young little one i share the knowledge, here are some of the videos that made me open my eyes to d/d

one of the newer well explain guides (he has other great guides), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS5Mew1O4n8&index=5&list=LL2_S5a3TwsaBCePkpz9Fneg

other tips and tricks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUmrfBr1R5s&index=2&list=LL2_S5a3TwsaBCePkpz9Fneg

MintyRequiem.4958:

Edit: Are there any condi d/d builds that are still viable perhaps? Thinking about it based on what you said, alemfi. Trying to keep my dream alive haha

I have been climbing the ranked league primarily on a condition (it’s more of a hybrid with a focus on condition. I started pvping this season maybe…. 2 weeks ago? Current “credentials” to its viability are 65%+ winrate over 81 games right now, from amber to mid ruby. So I can’t claim that it’s a god build that will allow you to win 90% of your games like I’ve seen some people’s win streaks (although to be fair, I started off with a 6 game lose streak before changing my build to one that focused more on killing because I noticed how bad both my team and allies were).

The build was (re)inspired by the knowledge that they reverted back energy sigil from granting vigor back to 25% which is (imo) balanced compared to what it was at 50% endurance regen. The idea is to keep up the 10% condition damage bonus from the daredevil trait, and the 15% power/condition damage bonus through constant ability use (your dodges are basically attack abilities now). And the kicker is…. you are constantly evading. There is downtime between evade skills, particularly with d/d 3 where you can be vulnerable to burst, but I figure if I’m fighting opponents that are consistently good enough to pull off burst between the evade frames, there skill was probably higher than mine anyways and I’d lose with a different build regardless. Otherwise it’s all about buildwars2. Necros are particularly easy to wreck but you should basically be able to win against anything that doesn’t spec high for retaliation uptime and power. If you are on NA ping me and I can show you the build and tell you more about how it works. If I have time, I might be able to make a recording.

MintyRequiem.4958:

Jana, I would totally do it in PvE if I PvE’d, but I am not interested sadly :< I’m 99% PvP. Oh well, maybe D/D will be viable again some day, thanks for the replies.

I actually forgot to add that the set is even worse in PvP and has been for a long time (for several reasons).
We told the devs beforehand that they’re killing the set – to no avail. And it’s been a year – all my D/D power friends either quit the game, the set or the class. I wouldn’t get my hopes up.
There’s no use of pretending that D/D power still works “just play what you want and don’t listen to anyone” as that won’t change a thing and D/D has been the stepchild of this game for ages.
There’s a lot of reasons why the set isn’t viable – if you want me to list it I’ll do that.

ETA: And D/D condi is probably not the playstyle you were looking for.

Jana.6831:

ETA: And D/D condi is probably not the playstyle you were looking for.

what does ETA stand for in this case btw? I usually associate it with “Estimated time of arrival”. Also, I can agree that the majority of the play style is probably not what he/she is going to be looking for, which is why I didn’t bring it up initially. There is finesse to it, and a few key moments where switching to “conventional” d/d power style attacks will be what you need to do to secure the kill/victory, so I decided to put it out there for him/her to judge for themselves.

alemfi.5107:

Jana.6831:

ETA: And D/D condi is probably not the playstyle you were looking for.

what does ETA stand for in this case btw? I usually associate it with “Estimated time of arrival”. Also, I can agree that the majority of the play style is probably not what he/she is going to be looking for, which is why I didn’t bring it up initially. There is finesse to it, and a few key moments where switching to “conventional” d/d power style attacks will be what you need to do to secure the kill/victory, so I decided to put it out there for him/her to judge for themselves.

Edit To Add

Unplayable in sPvP, somewhat-to-none in WvW. I genuinely think you’re best-off just running full-offensive traits to make use of the burst. D/P does better at resetting, staff better at all-in, S/D better at tempo, P/P better at burst and safety.

Pretty much anything but condi is largely unplayable in WvW at the moment unless your opponents are playing power or are just bad, though.

I ran into a buzzsaw of a D/D, Staff, Acro build. They basically used D/D as an up close killer, Staff for mobility/AoE damage and used CnD on guaranteed stealths. Worked really well but the skill requirement is clearly high.

Straegen.2938:

I ran into a buzzsaw of a D/D, Staff, Acro build. They basically used D/D as an up close killer, Staff for mobility/AoE damage and used CnD on guaranteed stealths. Worked really well but the skill requirement is clearly high.

Don’t know if you mean “they used CnD when they knew they’d have a guaranteed stealth” – no CnD is guaranteed since June last year (and even before) thanks to all the blocks and passives – one of the reasons D/D is dead. The guy you saw got lucky against whoever he was fighting.

I’ve been testing a d/d build using shadow arts, trickery, and daredevil. So far it is definitely more difficult than d/p and the lack of a reliable interrupt is sad, BUT it is surprisingly strong and works very well in sPvP so far.

MintyRequiem.4958:

I’ve been testing a d/d build using shadow arts, trickery, and daredevil. So far it is definitely more difficult than d/p and the lack of a reliable interrupt is sad, BUT it is surprisingly strong and works very well in sPvP so far.

Yeah, sure, those like me who have several k of hours of experience with that set simply have no idea and just say things.

Jana.6831:

MintyRequiem.4958:

I’ve been testing a d/d build using shadow arts, trickery, and daredevil. So far it is definitely more difficult than d/p and the lack of a reliable interrupt is sad, BUT it is surprisingly strong and works very well in sPvP so far.

Yeah, sure, those like me who have several k of hours of experience with that set simply have no idea and just say things.

I’m not saying that, I’m just saying I’ve found a nice little build through experimenting that makes d/d worth a little something in unranked spvp xD

Jana.6831:

Straegen.2938:

I ran into a buzzsaw of a D/D, Staff, Acro build. They basically used D/D as an up close killer, Staff for mobility/AoE damage and used CnD on guaranteed stealths. Worked really well but the skill requirement is clearly high.

Don’t know if you mean “they used CnD when they knew they’d have a guaranteed stealth” – no CnD is guaranteed since June last year (and even before) thanks to all the blocks and passives – one of the reasons D/D is dead. The guy you saw got lucky against whoever he was fighting.

Not even this so much due to the buff to BV, but in the case of a CnD → Backstab combo, by the time you do have a guaranteed CnD/Stab and the passives, blocks, invulns, blurs, etc. are burned, the thief is either dead or out of gas on initiative having needed to spend it all on evades with DB, disengages, etc.

The set suffers from consistency issues and relatively under-performing skills compared to D/P and staff. The huge push to DB D/D condi and continuous nerfing to its power build either directly or indirectly have let the set deteriorate in its uses in sPvP in particular, since even its huge burst build options have next to no viability due to low power/ferocity scaling in sPvP from amulets and a high emphasis on defensive builds.

Jana.6831:

Don’t know if you mean “they used CnD when they knew they’d have a guaranteed stealth” – no CnD is guaranteed since June last year (and even before) thanks to all the blocks and passives – one of the reasons D/D is dead. The guy you saw got lucky against whoever he was fighting.

You can see blocks and invulns before attacking just takes some practice. Players can also cloak off of pets, clones, etc. Then there are NPCs and of course walls/doors still allow cloaking.

Basically using D/D as a spike/utility weaponset can work just not as effect as D/P as a primary weapon thanks to Shadow Shot. I do believe when CnD should be unblockable. It should use less initiative or use less when it doesn’t stealth.

Straegen.2938:

Jana.6831:

Don’t know if you mean “they used CnD when they knew they’d have a guaranteed stealth” – no CnD is guaranteed since June last year (and even before) thanks to all the blocks and passives – one of the reasons D/D is dead. The guy you saw got lucky against whoever he was fighting.

You can see blocks and invulns before attacking just takes some practice. Players can also cloak off of pets, clones, etc. Then there are NPCs and of course walls/doors still allow cloaking.

Basically using D/D as a spike/utility weaponset can work just not as effect as D/P as a primary weapon thanks to Shadow Shot. I do believe when CnD should be unblockable. It should use less initiative or use less when it doesn’t stealth.

See above (what Deceiver said) – a backstab isn’t just one skill it requires a lot more than just hitting 1. But stealth often is the only defense a thief has got, so CnD is crucial nonetheless and you don’t have time to watch every boon your opponent might get in that moment, you need to survive their skills which hit harder than your backstab despite them sitting on 25k HP and 3k armor.
Believe me: D/D doesn’t work anymore – I’m still running it and I’m still killing people with it – but mostly in a +1 scenario 1 vs 1 I have got no chance.
It’s completely false and useless to claim otherwise as not even the devs seem to know this weaponset – and honestly: I want it back again. I want to be able to play this game again.

ETA: But, it’s not just the botched traits and weaponskills, it’s also a lot of bugs and other changes which were made to this game which ruined that set.

With that I’m back to my retirement, initially just wanted to complain about wvw polls and thought it would be a good time to remind anet that D/D power thief is still dead and that there are people who miss it.

(Thanks Deceiver, btw, for keeping D/D up – I’m a mostly quiet reader)

Jana.6831:

See above (what Deceiver said) – a backstab isn’t just one skill it requires a lot more than just hitting 1. But stealth often is the only defense a thief has got, so CnD is crucial nonetheless and you don’t have time to watch every boon your opponent might get in that moment, you need to survive their skills which hit harder than your backstab despite them sitting on 25k HP and 3k armor.

Evasion and mobility are more powerful than stealth at least in the current meta. I have completely abandoned stealth and found that my builds are stronger for it.

Jana.6831:

Believe me: D/D doesn’t work anymore – I’m still running it and I’m still killing people with it – but mostly in a +1 scenario 1 vs 1 I have got no chance. It’s completely false and useless to claim otherwise as not even the devs seem to know this weaponset – and honestly: I want it back again. I want to be able to play this game again.

The role D/D finds itself today… not a primary weaponset but still works. To make D/D work, a player needs to leave behind Shadow Arts and think of stealth as more of a setup to a big shot.

I have seen first hand what a Staff, D/D acro build can do in a duel and it is pretty impressive in the right hands.