Guild Wars 2

I started leveling my thief again. Note that I’m not going to use her for PvE. In PvP I run s/d build and in WvW I’ll be going p/d.. Mostly roaming and some group. But I wonder if anyone have a viable WvW p/p build. I LOVE p/p but I know it’s mediocre to every other weapon set. If anyone in is running P/P in WvW (solo or group), mind sharing your build and experience with it. I’d like something somewhat tanky, but be able do do decent damage as well..

I, too, have been on a quest to find the holy grail of p/p thief builds. My search has yet proved fruitless.

Here’s what I’ve tried most recently in sPvP: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAqaVl0Mp8plOx7JsPNROBt9DCwB88KVpzjMXA-TpRBABRcIACc/hFOBAacEAIrMAAPAAA

It had a moderate amount of success, but the problem I have with p/p is that they always just “feel” bad. I went with the traveler runes because I simply wanted mobility, but you could maybe slot signet of shadows instead of blinding powder and use different runes.

I haven’t really given a build a field test in WvW yet, but I was thinking of trying something like: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAqaVl8MpsplOx7JsPNROBt9DCwB88KTpziMXA-TlSBwAmVCG5QIcV5Hx9HQpvZxJEQyBIQzRAIn6PAeQAkCIihRA-w

The signet of malice synergizes naturally with unload, though you do lose the utility from the other healing skills. However, I planned to use this in group combat as opposed to 1v1s or very small scale stuff, so having the constant heals while hitting multiple targets via ricochet could be quite nice. Unfortunately it doesn’t work that well with ankle shots since it has an ICD, so maybe I would swap that to combo critical chance.

I also wanted to use a trap since traps are currently the unloved ginger children of the thief utilities, and the vigorous recovery trait doesn’t work as well with signet of malice like it does with withdraw. The tripwire can also be quite nice for keeping people away from you, and no one really expects it. I’m thinking that the other traps might be more useful depending on the situation.

Power of inertia and descent of shadows would also be other strong options in that trait slot though.

I was also thinking of using the strength runes since unload works well with the sigil of strength: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAqaVl8MpzplOx7JsPNROBt9DCwB88KTpzeMXA-T1SBwAUOBA02fwsSwIHChrK/QpvZxBEQyBIQzRAIn6PAeQAkCIihRA-w

You could more or less guarantee might uptime, especially since you get a 24 second might stack on every dodge. Signet of agility might be worth taking in that sense since it allows you to get more dodges, and thus more might.

Again, haven’t tried those two out in WvW yet, but that’s what I’d go for if I did try them out. I was thinking of making a perplexity build since head shot is a convenient interrupt, but I figured it would end up being too lame.

Here you go:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqa6al0Mp3pFOx0J8PNBNBtdGWQE0KAdHl+OEA-TJBGwA/2fAwRB4wLAIaZAA

This is my bread’n’butter build for WvW.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqa4al0Mp0pVOx2J0PNBPBtdCOQA8MKNpzg0WA-TFTBAB89AAcZ/hHOCAmpEMiTiwVK/qU9H80PgiGmFOgAScACA4ABQKgHGDA-w

For dueling/small group, I swap out Ricochet for Bountiful Theft.

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

This is my bread’n’butter build for WvW.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqa4al0Mp0pVOx2J0PNBPBtdCOQA8MKNpzg0WA-TFTBAB89AAcZ/hHOCAmpEMiTiwVK/qU9H80PgiGmFOgAScACA4ABQKgHGDA-w

For dueling/small group, I swap out Ricochet for Bountiful Theft.

A question I have with this:

When do you decide to swap weapon sets? A problem I have with thief is that I feel like the builds are always based around one weapon set, whereas with other professions I base them around both (i.e. warrior axe/shield + greatsword). As such, I usually just go with shortbow in the second weapon set since it provides great utility. Do you go through any specific rotations that involve weapon swaps? Or is the d/p simply for the on-demand stealth?

Yamsandjams.3267:

TeamBattleAxe.3901:

This is my bread’n’butter build for WvW.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqa4al0Mp0pVOx2J0PNBPBtdCOQA8MKNpzg0WA-TFTBAB89AAcZ/hHOCAmpEMiTiwVK/qU9H80PgiGmFOgAScACA4ABQKgHGDA-w

For dueling/small group, I swap out Ricochet for Bountiful Theft.

A question I have with this:

When do you decide to swap weapon sets? A problem I have with thief is that I feel like the builds are always based around one weapon set, whereas with other professions I base them around both (i.e. warrior axe/shield + greatsword). As such, I usually just go with shortbow in the second weapon set since it provides great utility. Do you go through any specific rotations that involve weapon swaps? Or is the d/p simply for the on-demand stealth?

I don’t ever use stealth even though D/P gives me access to it. It’s just a personal preference, really, not a tactical decision. I’d rather lose a fight in plain sight than win/escape by stealth. But, by all means, feel free to use stealth if you’ve got it. I’m not going to hate on you.

I chose D/P as a sideset because its crazy mobility and blinds work so well to complement the ranged control and pressure that P/P gives. In most of my fights, I’m constantly trying to control distance… dealing damage/interrupts from range and trying to bait out larger cooldowns, then quickly getting in to do some heavy damage and back out again before they have a chance to punish me for it. If you’re familiar with fighting games, I’m pretty much doing the GW2 equivalent of footsies while trying to open my opponent(s) up for some combo damage. That’s also why I picked utilities that assist in movement/cc and can be used both offensively and defensively.

My build and playstyle choices might seem a bit weird, but this is just what happens when a Tekken player plays an mmo. xD

paleeshi.1924:

I started leveling my thief again. Note that I’m not going to use her for PvE. In PvP I run s/d build and in WvW I’ll be going p/d.. Mostly roaming and some group. But I wonder if anyone have a viable WvW p/p build. I LOVE p/p but I know it’s mediocre to every other weapon set. If anyone in is running P/P in WvW (solo or group), mind sharing your build and experience with it. I’d like something somewhat tanky, but be able do do decent damage as well..

P/P is not as bad as people think, it lacks mobility/evade but other than that, it’s great a weaponset. You can mitigate lack of mobility by using sb or d/x as secondary.

Since the last patch, I’ve been trying P/P, I am not that great with it, still learning. I run a squishier build than what you asked for and the only problems with it is when I bump into a zerg – I use S/D & P/P so can’t run away that well.

A stealthless teef never knows what you’re going to run into, SB for the win.

I am currently trying a p/p weaponset with s/d as the alternate.

My goals were to maximize CRIT chances so every shot on the unload a crit.
Leverage this using proc on crit sigils.

Build here.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQJAqal0Mp3plOxwJ0PNBPhs9gEB8Lav32B-TFSGABA8AAMTLARK/AZ/h40BcnSQ0OBAOq+TAAEgdWnBwRP6RP6RPa7cn7cn7cnlCwclRA-w

I stack perception and generally between thrill of crime and furious retaliation have close to 100 percent fury uptime with over 90 percent crit procs.

The unload chain can keep close to 8 stacks of might on and i have seen it spike to 12.

It much better in small groups where you can roam the edges to spike down people. 1v1 it a give and take . Some builds it does great against.

Assassins retreat is used to make up for the mobility issues.

>>The signet of malice synergizes naturally with unload, though you do lose the utility from the other healing skills. However, I planned to use this in group combat as opposed to 1v1s or very small scale stuff, so having the constant heals while hitting multiple targets via ricochet could be quite nice

This was my own experience with SOM. I even coupled it with assassins retreat. P/P is rather heavy on Ini use. Once low on Ini your healing is severely compromised as you can only do the auto attack.

With low vitality overall you will have issues where you are “overhealing” due to unload and then underhealing when that Ini burned and you try and build it up again.

I really tried to make it work. I took Omonmberry ghost , assassins reward and even the GM trait that adds health on crit and just could not get the SOM to work as I envisioned. I keep going back to withdraw.

If you have better luck let me know.

Here’s what I use.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqa8al0Mp3p1Nx0JsPNBOhsdkHJ8Ob1paFA

Why I took what I took:

S/P is there because it’s a very stable weapon set. It’s not hard to use, it gives you a key ability when it comes to clearing conditions (2), and the 3 is always good. The 1 is also steady damage, in case you mess up your initiative.

Utilities;
Withdraw; your biggest weakness as P/P is that your weapon set doesn’t give you any gapmakers. Withdraw helps to address this problem. Signet of Malice might look good on paper, but you avoid much more damage by avoiding your enemy than by blasting at them.
Roll for Initiative; as above, your biggest weakness is a lack of gapmakers. You’re also slaved to Initiative. This gives you pretty much everything; It’s a stunbreaker, it’s a gapmaker, it gives a big chunk of Initiative.
Ambush; I’m kind of inclined to say that P/P has one of the best synergies with your HR department. Unload has a lot of projectile finishers which you can fire through your buddies’ smoke fields, and the pull can get people off your face by buying you a second to avoid them. Even a second of unloading is a potentially huge amount of damage.
Shadowstep; Gapmaker/closer. Stunbreaker. Condi-clearer. Shadowstep is probably the strongest util that thieves have.
Thieves Guild; more HR department. With good use of Ambush and Thieves Guild you can have up to four thieves running around at once.

Sundering Strikes has huge synergy with Unload. High crit rate + high attack speed = lots of vuln stacks.
Executioner is just kinda there so I took it. What I really wanted was First Strikes to encourage/reward the high-initiative playstyle.
Hastened Replenishment turns Withdraw into a mini Roll for Initiative. Again, initiative slaved = need as much as you can get. Leading Strikes is also a nice trait to have.
Ankle Shots is nice to have. There are other options here, like Combo Crit Strike.
Pistol Mastery and Ricochet are more or less mandatory. There’s merit in swapping Ricochet for Bountiful Theft if you’re absolutely certain you’re only fighting a single target, but in a lot of environments, I find it’s not worth the bother- Especially in sPvP where you can’t switch traits between fights.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAqa6Yl0Mp3plOx8J8PNBOBtdE2dC0KAd/jkUEA-T1CEABJcCAKUJoTKxiS5hCPAgl2fIR1KaT/AAHBgGVV5hDCApAGVYE-w

I am not currently running a P/P build, but if I was, I’d probably be using this.

Rationale: As has been noted in this thread, a major weakness of a p/p setup (or a ‘stealthless’ thief) is the ability to create distance, so I do have withdraw and RFI in there for the evade and gap-making. I chose blinding powder and shadowstep as those are both skills I use on pretty much any build due to their ability to be used both offensively and defensively and are pretty much a guaranteed reset (unless you are 1vZerging). Elite is entirely superfluous in this setup, but I chose basilisk for the cc (poor as it is). Thieves guild may be interesting to run on this set up.

The stat spread may seem a little on the tanky side, but you NEED that as a thief if you aren’t going to go for a stealthy-cheese build.

Second set is P/D for the added gap-maker of Shadow strike and the ability to stealth on CnD — always nice to be able to stealth to get outta dodge.

Sigils are in place to synergize with the traits I’m using: this build has 60% crit chance (which I am aware is a bit lower than some people run, but is really all you need, especially with a multi-hit skill like unload) and you will be applying TONNES of vulnerability and might to yourself. I know most people stand by sigil of force/air, but since unload hits 8 times and each can crit…. frailty just outperforms force in this set-up. YES it can be cleansed, but I can pretty much guarantee you that you will be back at 8+stax of vuln in very short order.

I went heavy into acrobatics to get the most out of dodging (since you will be doing a lot of that when you aren’t stealthed). Extra might from Power of Inertia, and extra dodgerolls from vigorous recovery. The grandmaster trait helps deal with some damaging conditions since the only condi-clear on this build is shadowstep.

Runes are a matter of personal preference in this build: the statspread is pretty well rounded, though I’d suggest something from the power lines. Brawler will take advantage of your low CD heal and give you more damage. Another option would be runes of Strength due to the large amounts of might you will be stacking on yourself (in fact that would likely be the better route, but I don’t feel like getting a new link to change it). Runes of the Pack would give you more offensive stats and 50% fury uptime to bring your crit-chance to ~83% or so, but as the build already has a decent amount of crit-chance (imo) I felt a more power-related rune would be better (such as brawler or strength).

TL;DR:
Haven’t tested it, looks good in theory. Should be viable.

I have tweaked my own P/p build around a bit and it keeps getting better .

First and foremost the Crit rate is 86 percent WITHOUT any fury. That means it always 86 percent.

There no stealth at all it a 2/6/0/6/0 build.

Sigil of Strength on one Pistol.
Sigil of frailty on the other.

Sundering strikes from the DA chain then practiced tolerance , pistol mastery and executioner out of CS.

S/d is the off hand set and I put a sigil of purity on one weapon and sigil of genorisity on the other.

The runes are Runes of strength.

Withdraw/RFI/Signet of Agility/Shadowstep/daggerstrom.

I have built 10 stacks of might just from the unloads. Coupled with that you have two sources of vulnerability on crit which generally sees around 12 stacks on an enemy though it can go even higher.

Vital shots are hitting for 1.4k . Unloads can hit for over 1k per hit.

The vulnerability coupled with might equates to a source of damage of another 20 percent on an ongoing basis which can be built much higher. I have had 14 stacks of might and laid down 16 Vulnerability stacks on occasion when everything clicks. (36 percent more damage)

You have to keep range. If your shadowstep not enough for the condition cleanses switch to s/d which with Genorisity and purity can clean a lot off in a hurry. (2 cleanses plus the infiltrators cleanse every 10 seconds is not all bad)

The S/d set even with those two sigils will hit hard in its own right. (You can also use p/p and p/p with one set used to cleanse)

Steal gunk followed by an unload can really load the confusion on

Oberon Vex.1389:

The stat spread may seem a little on the tanky side, but you NEED that as a thief if you aren’t going to go for a stealthy-cheese build.

I found the opposite to be true. If you go for a tankier build, your dmg won’t hurt that much. This is more of a “psychological defence”, people run to me and start attacking, usually 1 unload and they turn around and go full defence. And it’s a lot easier to kill someone who is panicking. Since I started using P/P, I noticed this mostly with engies and warrs, with warrs running away a lot sooner than anyone else. Engies are used to melting thieves, so they just drop turrets and stand there, by the time they realise I am killing them from range, it’s late.

I tried many builds and I like full offence most. I get kills and I don’t fall asleep while doing so.

babazhook.6805:

I have tweaked my own P/p build around a bit and it keeps getting better .

First and foremost the Crit rate is 86 percent WITHOUT any fury. That means it always 86 percent.

There no stealth at all it a 2/6/0/6/0 build.

Sigil of Strength on one Pistol.
Sigil of frailty on the other.

Sundering strikes from the DA chain then practiced tolerance , pistol mastery and executioner out of CS.

S/d is the off hand set and I put a sigil of purity on one weapon and sigil of genorisity on the other.

The runes are Runes of strength.

Withdraw/RFI/Signet of Agility/Shadowstep/daggerstrom.

I have built 10 stacks of might just from the unloads. Coupled with that you have two sources of vulnerability on crit which generally sees around 12 stacks on an enemy though it can go even higher.

Vital shots are hitting for 1.4k . Unloads can hit for over 1k per hit.

The vulnerability coupled with might equates to a source of damage of another 20 percent on an ongoing basis which can be built much higher. I have had 14 stacks of might and laid down 16 Vulnerability stacks on occasion when everything clicks. (36 percent more damage)

You have to keep range. If your shadowstep not enough for the condition cleanses switch to s/d which with Genorisity and purity can clean a lot off in a hurry. (2 cleanses plus the infiltrators cleanse every 10 seconds is not all bad)

The S/d set even with those two sigils will hit hard in its own right. (You can also use p/p and p/p with one set used to cleanse)

Steal gunk followed by an unload can really load the confusion on

What are you using for acro tree? I’m always confused as to what should go in here.

>>What are you using for acro tree? I’m always confused as to what should go in here.

1>Assassins retreat. Some take vigor but I prefer this. Swiftness stacks and with 30 points in acro you get 26 seconds per kill. After intense battles or even after killing a wolf pack I will often see 2 minutes and more swiftness built up.

This allows me to run across the map, chase down the enemy or even retreat when needed so as to help maintain that gap you need in the p/p build. Mobility is the single largest issue with the P/p build and swiftness is mobility.

Roll for inertia. dodge get might 26 seconds worth. This works well with runes of strength but Vigorous recovery is not a bad choice either as you will use withdraw a lot and Vigor is handy.

You can also take descent of shadows. This works great when you jump off a cliff chasing someone or have someone jump and chase you. You are stealthed and take less damage from the fall . From stealth you can hit the person you are chasing or hit someone chasing you with a hard hitting sneak attack.

I have used all three here and really there no wrong answer.

For the GM I tend use to assassins reward. The unloads are a great source of healing at 5 ini. You get around 380 per unload and if you run ghost with it that is about 1k heal per unload.

Is there a reason why you’re running Assassin’s instead of Zerker? Doesn’t power hit harder when you crit at this point? Your crit chance seems pretty high already.

>>is there a reason why you’re running Assassin’s instead of Zerker? Doesn’t power hit harder when you crit at this point? Your crit chance seems pretty high already.

I wanted to get sundering strikes to build up vulnerability stacks and get the poison on steal which has a significant impact on the heals of the enemy.

I wanted Executioner so as to get that 10 percent extra damage of first strikes which would then kick into 20 extra once the opponent under 50 percent health.

I wanted the 10 percent extra damage from fluid strikes when endurance not full.

I wanted Pistol mastery for 10 percent more damage and practiced tolerance for that health. This meant no source of fury though I could use furious retaliation if i wished.

Sigil of strength procs on crits. Sigil of frailty procs on crits. With a higher crit rate I will generally have more vulnerability stacks on an enemy and more might on myself. Omnomberry ghost also procs on crits and with a higher rate i very often get two of these on one unload with that higher rate. (you could also mix this in with sigil of blood/signet of malice/invigorating precision and get a whole pile of heals)

These extra stacks of might and vulnerability easily make up for the extra 100 some odd power I would get off zerkers gear. All i need is three extra stacks of might from my higher crit procs and I am ahead of zerkers.

I also get a higher rate of return from Opportunist as far as initiative goes allowing for more unloads even with its cool down.

More critical strikes opens up more options for the proc on crits stuff like ankle shots, sigils and the like allowing for a more flexible build. More power does not offer these things.

Fair enough. lol. Sorry I didn’t mean to sound like I was accusing you of what you are talking about. I just wanted to know what the thought process for that gear is. I’m enlightened Thanks!

Lamuness.3570:

Fair enough. lol. Sorry I didn’t mean to sound like I was accusing you of what you are talking about. I just wanted to know what the thought process for that gear is. I’m enlightened Thanks!

I did not take it as accusatory. I thought it a genuine question

I’ve been experimenting with P/P build for a while (just because twin pistols look cool imo) so here what I think is viable:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAqaVl0Mp3plOxwJ8PNBPBtdCOQA8s0NpzgEDA-TZBIwAAOCAY2fowpAI8DAIZZAA
I’m not saying that this build is perfect but it is much better than ones I’ve tried before.
The main points:
- Condi removal on unload. It really works and increases survivability significantly.
- 4 point in trickery give you 15 points of initiative, which is great for the burst and ‘ricochet’ appears to be very effective for group fights in conjunction with unload(increases total damage greatly).
It is really easy to keep distance fighting melee characters. Some problems may occur when fighting casters and ranger, cos it is all about dps in this case. For this reason I’m going to test ‘smoke screen’ instead shadow step. The latter is not so important cos you have other means to clean conditions and keep you distance.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I tried out a berserker build that was traited for huge initiative regen. It was by no means viable, but if you hang back and pick people off.. it’s extremely fun to play.

I know you’re looking for a ‘viable’ build, but still.. thought I’d share ^^

Build is here. You can use Unload so often it’s pretty funny.

As for a viable build, I’m not entirely sure.
I just made this right now. However, it actually looks pretty solid. I might have to test it later.

EDIT: Would probably change to this. Not a wide enough access to conditions to use Rampager Amulet. Bleeds would only tick for an extra 32~ or so damage.
Would instead play this