Guild Wars 2

Hey Guys

I actually didn’t want to do this but I think I should try to help out as many ppl as I can with the build I came up with, first of all, this is as the topic says an allround build, featuring high sustain, high damage and good mobility build around utilizing your stealth abilities since we are DD
Furthermore I’d like to hear some feedback from you guys on how it works for you..
I’d also very much appreciate donations if the build does suite you, since i invested a lot of gold time and effort into making it as strong as it is for me at least.

It’s not mandatory but it would be nice seeing some of you appreciate me if my build could help you out

anyhow you might be wondering why i picked certain runes, food, traits etc.
if you have any questoins you can reply here or write me a mail ingame

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZQQNAoYVlsMhynY3Tw0JQ/EHEF1OLHtAgXBRwE0ThQIMB-TlCBABXq+zS7PcmSQsUeIxDAAgTAQWKxyTfADHCgNOCABAQAuZb2m3MwRP6RP6RPaH9oH9m38mlCQPdWA-w

Feedback is welcome just don’t hate or troll please.
I really hope I could help

I also have variations of this build for either D/p or D/D players who want to go more into dmg, which i think isn’t needed tho.

PS: don’t worry if you aren’t full ascended, exotic gear is fine as well

I like it. Plenty of condi clears, good oh kitten button and passive. Good DPS while retaining high dps.

You can aslo swap out BP for SoA to bring your crit chance up and take NQ for even higher damage and increase fury uptime.

Gabriell.4856:

I like it. Plenty of condi clears, good oh kitten button and passive. Good DPS while retaining high dps.

You can aslo swap out BP for SoA to bring your crit chance up and take NQ for even higher damage and increase fury uptime.

I tried to play without bp, but it’s not a good idea, for the group you can insta 4sec stealth a teammate who needs help, plus it’s a blind that will negate the damage of quick burst of e.g. a thief jumping on you, you can use it to chain up your stealth time and also if in a focus group e.g. and you need quick stealth, pistol #5 of another thief plus your bp is insta 8+ sec.

bp is just so versitile and has saved me in so many outnumbered fights, and since this is an allrounder build it’s the better choice, imho

in addition to that, i feel that having the higher crit chance isn’t necessary since it wouldn’t improve on much, and even tho no quarter is a good trait, it doesn’t fit with D/D in my opinion, because i don’t like to take chances on my backstab, on D/P it’s fine, but with DD on my build I need to have 100% in stealth, higher dmg isn’t needed, almost all zerker classes die in my first engage

Hey DHawk. Very interesting build.

Have you tried this out in sPvP? Or did you intend this to be an exclusively WvW build? I know the answer seems obvious (otherwise why list food, infusions, etc) but I thought I’d ask anyways.

Thank you.

Mattigan.6395:

Hey DHawk. Very interesting build.

Have you tried this out in sPvP? Or did you intend this to be an exclusively WvW build? I know the answer seems obvious (otherwise why list food, infusions, etc) but I thought I’d ask anyways.

Thank you.

haha yes i tried it in pvp and it has been successfull there as well, but you’ll get the most out of it in WvW
i found it was a superior thief build for stronghold, i played some matches last weekend and honestly, noone could touch me, conquest was a bit harder

At this point I also want to say, I don’t think of myself as a pro thief player or even the best, I’m not saying this is the absolute 100% best build either.
I can safely say I belong to the higher tier of thieves or at least above average and that this build has been suiting my playstyle almost perfectly, I only miss CiS ;( ^^
But if anyone wants or needs some tips on how I play my thief, my movement, what I think about when I engage and who and how I do so, I’d gladly help out
best is as I said before, write me a mail ingame and I’ll see when I can find some time, since I currently live in Germany and furthermore I’m working a summer job atm so my free time during the week is basically non existant ^^

any other options for food/oil?
Tried to play with, but couldnt find any useful combination.
I dont have leveled any crafting profession

mxo.4326:

any other options for food/oil?
Tried to play with, but couldnt find any useful combination.
I dont have leveled any crafting profession

I’d go and lv up huntsmen or something to 450 because that oil is really pushing this build far, if you want an alternative try some superior sharpening stones or smth like that to boost your power,
but you should really go for that oil

Just a heads up that I would change the sigil of fire on your dagger to something else, probably Accuracy just to be safe. I say this not because your crit chance is lacking, but because Cloak and Dagger still has an issue with popping revealed on you if your on-crit sigil procs. This only happens about 1-2% of the time, but one in every 50 Cloak and Dagger’s is enough to make you notice it. Until they fix that issue, I have stopped using Air and Fire sigils on my daggers.

Xytl.8659:

Just a heads up that I would change the sigil of fire on your dagger to something else, probably Accuracy just to be safe. I say this not because your crit chance is lacking, but because Cloak and Dagger still has an issue with popping revealed on you if your on-crit sigil procs. This only happens about 1-2% of the time, but one in every 50 Cloak and Dagger’s is enough to make you notice it. Until they fix that issue, I have stopped using Air and Fire sigils on my daggers.

oh didn’t know that, never happened to me yet ^^
as soon as it happenes to me the first time I’ll take out the fire sigil for sigil of force on the dagger, it doesn’t matter on the bow

thanks for your heads up tho

DHawk.2687:

Xytl.8659:

Just a heads up that I would change the sigil of fire on your dagger to something else, probably Accuracy just to be safe. I say this not because your crit chance is lacking, but because Cloak and Dagger still has an issue with popping revealed on you if your on-crit sigil procs. This only happens about 1-2% of the time, but one in every 50 Cloak and Dagger’s is enough to make you notice it. Until they fix that issue, I have stopped using Air and Fire sigils on my daggers.

oh didn’t know that, never happened to me yet ^^
as soon as it happenes to me the first time I’ll take out the fire sigil for sigil of force on the dagger, it doesn’t matter on the bow

thanks for your heads up tho

I just got the flamburst on my CnD but it didn’t reveal me, so I guess it must be a small chance for it to actually screw you are maybe (fingers crossed) it’s fixed

Interesting build.
But i cant imagine playing dd thief without running cis and trickery :0
Especially after the post patch.

Yeah, I tried this build on and off since the new patch. It’s okay, I’d give it a bronze medal. One missed cloak and dagger and you’re kinda dead though. And it’s int regen is really just not good. Damage is pretty spiky once you work around, block, aegis, blind though.

DHawk.2687:

DHawk.2687:

Xytl.8659:

Just a heads up that I would change the sigil of fire on your dagger to something else, probably Accuracy just to be safe. I say this not because your crit chance is lacking, but because Cloak and Dagger still has an issue with popping revealed on you if your on-crit sigil procs. This only happens about 1-2% of the time, but one in every 50 Cloak and Dagger’s is enough to make you notice it. Until they fix that issue, I have stopped using Air and Fire sigils on my daggers.

oh didn’t know that, never happened to me yet ^^
as soon as it happenes to me the first time I’ll take out the fire sigil for sigil of force on the dagger, it doesn’t matter on the bow

thanks for your heads up tho

I just got the flamburst on my CnD but it didn’t reveal me, so I guess it must be a small chance for it to actually screw you are maybe (fingers crossed) it’s fixed

Yeah it’s definitely an inconsistent problem, but one that I have seen no patch note for yet, so i’m assuming it’s still a problem (I last tested it over a month ago). You’re lucky to see this bug happen in every hundred or so cloak and daggers, but you’ll definitely know when it does happen, because you’ll probably get killed by it. From my understanding it’s more of a ping/connection issue than anything else, the game simply doesn’t register the skills in the right order and marks you as revealed because the flame burst triggers after stealth.

Actually if you land CnD while in midair, the fire and air sigils don’t prokittenil you reach the ground (and are thus in stealth).

It was on a thread somewhere like a month ago…

MidoriMarch.8067:

Interesting build.
But i cant imagine playing dd thief without running cis and trickery :0
Especially after the post patch.

Why rely on trickery so bad, yes it’s a good trait tree, but acrobatic works better for DD because the 50% speed lets me hit every backstab and the stunbreaks allow for easy Zerg dives

MADAIR.1948:

Yeah, I tried this build on and off since the new patch. It’s okay, I’d give it a bronze medal. One missed cloak and dagger and you’re kinda dead though. And it’s int regen is really just not good. Damage is pretty spiky once you work around, block, aegis, blind though.

As I said utilizing CnD is key in this build, as in any DD build focused around power xD
And if you miss one you shouldn’t be dead, especially not in a 1v1 1v2 situation, if you are its your fault, not the builds. The build doesn’t make you a better player, it just caters to a certain play style that takes a bit of thinking and knowing when and when not to act, when to stay in stealth to keep observing and when to attack.

The ini regen is as good as any other build without SoI but we only have 12, saying the ini is bad kinda tells me you usually spam skills every now and then, Ive never been in a situation where I couldn’t use the skill I needed
Plus you have the regen in stealth which you need to utilize

The build won’t do the work for you!

Sunflowers.1729:

Actually if you land CnD while in midair, the fire and air sigils don’t prokittenil you reach the ground (and are thus in stealth).

It was on a thread somewhere like a month ago…

Oh ok, good to know
Let see if anet will ever fix it xD they might as well just call it a feature ^^

I completely agree using BP on D/D, it’s really useful in a lot of quick fights against thieves and mesmers. It will also safe you from any missed CnD. And combined with Shadow step it still gains a lot of survivability. Next to that they buffed the skill not to long ago to make it insta cast. So it’s useful while stomping. To me it’s as important as shadow step in a d/d build, but everyone has there preferences of course.

Might try the build out, seems really promising.

Vaide.6290:

I completely agree using BP on D/D, it’s really useful in a lot of quick fights against thieves and mesmers. It will also safe you from any missed CnD. And combined with Shadow step it still gains a lot of survivability. Next to that they buffed the skill not to long ago to make it insta cast. So it’s useful while stomping. To me it’s as important as shadow step in a d/d build, but everyone has there preferences of course.

Might try the build out, seems really promising.

Yeah that’s my opinion on it as well, that’s why it’s in my build
Funny thing is, at first my focus group was like, meh, idk, I’d rather have you take the scorpion wire
But ever since I’ve saved their kitten more than once they always ask, “you have bp right? Oh good” before we start ^^
I think Bp is highly underrated

Hey DHawk. Is Daggerstorm more of a strict WvW choice for you? I am wondering if switching to BV for sPvP would perform stronger in that more constrained environment.

Mattigan.6395:

Hey DHawk. Is Daggerstorm more of a strict WvW choice for you? I am wondering if switching to BV for sPvP would perform stronger in that more constrained environment.

Nah I have daggerstorm selected because it’s the most usefull in general
But I switch out my elite all the time depending on the situation
E.g. When I know I’ll encounter a D/P thief I’ll often use Thieves guild, to make it hard for him to backstab me since you can really use their movement system to your advantage, when fighting a dd thief or ele I’ll take the venom and when fighting in a Zerg or against a ranged player I Equip daggerstrom
It’s very situational

DHawk.2687:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Interesting build.
But i cant imagine playing dd thief without running cis and trickery :0
Especially after the post patch.

Why rely on trickery so bad, yes it’s a good trait tree, but acrobatic works better for DD because the 50% speed lets me hit every backstab and the stunbreaks allow for easy Zerg dives

Because that + extra initiative is so good to give up. and bountiful theft boon steals + vigor help us survive better + more damage.

Your build can only land 2 cnd which means if u miss them u are pretty much screwed.

and u dont need that stunbreak on acro to avoid zerg. you are pretty much dead if u meet up with bunch of zerg focusing u down anyway

The point of playing D/D is to land your CnD’s… -.-
And without testing my build you cannot judge it’s overall effectiveness, I’ve tested it over several hours and trickery was of no real use in the alround department, only considering 1v1 fights I found it helpful
The 2 stunbreaks and chill/cripple reduction are very powerful and have saved me more than 3 more initiative
I have tested the build in Zerg dives, I took out 9 players alone without dropping below 40% health
I did that by utilizing CnD and my acrobatic traits, playing as DD you need to be upfront for CnD to hit, meanjng all movement debuffs can be fatal. Ever since using this build I haven’t been immobed once. The speed helps out when trying to land the backstab and getting in and out of fight, these traits are way stronger for DD than trickery can be, except fighting 1v1, but this is an allaround excell in every situation if you have the skill and know the streangths of the build and engaging smart.
I tested trickery, it’s not with it

DHawk.2687:

The point of playing D/D is to land your CnD’s… -.-
And without testing my build you cannot judge it’s overall effectiveness, I’ve tested it over several hours and trickery was of no real use in the alround department, only considering 1v1 fights I found it helpful
The 2 stunbreaks and chill/cripple reduction are very powerful and have saved me more than 3 more initiative
I have tested the build in Zerg dives, I took out 9 players alone without dropping below 40% health
I did that by utilizing CnD and my acrobatic traits, playing as DD you need to be upfront for CnD to hit, meanjng all movement debuffs can be fatal. Ever since using this build I haven’t been immobed once. The speed helps out when trying to land the backstab and getting in and out of fight, these traits are way stronger for DD than trickery can be, except fighting 1v1, but this is an allaround excell in every situation if you have the skill and know the streangths of the build and engaging smart.
I tested trickery, it’s not with it

Don’t missunderstood.

Never said anything bad about ur build.

Just curious and wanted to know if its really worth taking acro over trickery.

MidoriMarch.8067:

DHawk.2687:

The point of playing D/D is to land your CnD’s… -.-
And without testing my build you cannot judge it’s overall effectiveness, I’ve tested it over several hours and trickery was of no real use in the alround department, only considering 1v1 fights I found it helpful
The 2 stunbreaks and chill/cripple reduction are very powerful and have saved me more than 3 more initiative
I have tested the build in Zerg dives, I took out 9 players alone without dropping below 40% health
I did that by utilizing CnD and my acrobatic traits, playing as DD you need to be upfront for CnD to hit, meanjng all movement debuffs can be fatal. Ever since using this build I haven’t been immobed once. The speed helps out when trying to land the backstab and getting in and out of fight, these traits are way stronger for DD than trickery can be, except fighting 1v1, but this is an allaround excell in every situation if you have the skill and know the streangths of the build and engaging smart.
I tested trickery, it’s not with it

Don’t missunderstood.

Never said anything bad about ur build.

Just curious and wanted to know if its really worth taking acro over trickery.

Not trying to be rude
It’s just trickery doesn’t excell outside of pure burst and run away or 1v1 fights
The extra ini is nice, don’t get me wrong, but if you miss your CnD either use bp or make sure to hit the other, and especially in Zerg dives it’s hard to miss it ^^ so many dumb targets. And you gain vigor in acrobatics on a successful dodge as well if I’m not mistaking
But after practicing with dd for a while it’s not hard to get the CnD’s on target, sure everyone misses, but I have the shadowstep, the bp, shortbow, 2 insta stunbreaks, can’t be immobed, high health, shadow refuge, etc to keep me going
I’m not trying to brag but I havent once not gotten out of a Zerg focusing on me and acrobatics is one of the main reasons for it, and it really helps out taking out someone hiding within a group of players, I can litterally walk through a static field and not even notice it, even better, I get swiftness from it xD

DHawk.2687:

MidoriMarch.8067:

DHawk.2687:

The point of playing D/D is to land your CnD’s… -.-
And without testing my build you cannot judge it’s overall effectiveness, I’ve tested it over several hours and trickery was of no real use in the alround department, only considering 1v1 fights I found it helpful
The 2 stunbreaks and chill/cripple reduction are very powerful and have saved me more than 3 more initiative
I have tested the build in Zerg dives, I took out 9 players alone without dropping below 40% health
I did that by utilizing CnD and my acrobatic traits, playing as DD you need to be upfront for CnD to hit, meanjng all movement debuffs can be fatal. Ever since using this build I haven’t been immobed once. The speed helps out when trying to land the backstab and getting in and out of fight, these traits are way stronger for DD than trickery can be, except fighting 1v1, but this is an allaround excell in every situation if you have the skill and know the streangths of the build and engaging smart.
I tested trickery, it’s not with it

Don’t missunderstood.

Never said anything bad about ur build.

Just curious and wanted to know if its really worth taking acro over trickery.

Not trying to be rude
It’s just trickery doesn’t excell outside of pure burst and run away or 1v1 fights
The extra ini is nice, don’t get me wrong, but if you miss your CnD either use bp or make sure to hit the other, and especially in Zerg dives it’s hard to miss it ^^ so many dumb targets. And you gain vigor in acrobatics on a successful dodge as well if I’m not mistaking
But after practicing with dd for a while it’s not hard to get the CnD’s on target, sure everyone misses, but I have the shadowstep, the bp, shortbow, 2 insta stunbreaks, can’t be immobed, high health, shadow refuge, etc to keep me going
I’m not trying to brag but I havent once not gotten out of a Zerg focusing on me and acrobatics is one of the main reasons for it, and it really helps out taking out someone hiding within a group of players, I can litterally walk through a static field and not even notice it, even better, I get swiftness from it xD

I will give it a try thanks.

MidoriMarch.8067:

DHawk.2687:

MidoriMarch.8067:

DHawk.2687:

The point of playing D/D is to land your CnD’s… -.-
And without testing my build you cannot judge it’s overall effectiveness, I’ve tested it over several hours and trickery was of no real use in the alround department, only considering 1v1 fights I found it helpful
The 2 stunbreaks and chill/cripple reduction are very powerful and have saved me more than 3 more initiative
I have tested the build in Zerg dives, I took out 9 players alone without dropping below 40% health
I did that by utilizing CnD and my acrobatic traits, playing as DD you need to be upfront for CnD to hit, meanjng all movement debuffs can be fatal. Ever since using this build I haven’t been immobed once. The speed helps out when trying to land the backstab and getting in and out of fight, these traits are way stronger for DD than trickery can be, except fighting 1v1, but this is an allaround excell in every situation if you have the skill and know the streangths of the build and engaging smart.
I tested trickery, it’s not with it

Don’t missunderstood.

Never said anything bad about ur build.

Just curious and wanted to know if its really worth taking acro over trickery.

Not trying to be rude
It’s just trickery doesn’t excell outside of pure burst and run away or 1v1 fights
The extra ini is nice, don’t get me wrong, but if you miss your CnD either use bp or make sure to hit the other, and especially in Zerg dives it’s hard to miss it ^^ so many dumb targets. And you gain vigor in acrobatics on a successful dodge as well if I’m not mistaking
But after practicing with dd for a while it’s not hard to get the CnD’s on target, sure everyone misses, but I have the shadowstep, the bp, shortbow, 2 insta stunbreaks, can’t be immobed, high health, shadow refuge, etc to keep me going
I’m not trying to brag but I havent once not gotten out of a Zerg focusing on me and acrobatics is one of the main reasons for it, and it really helps out taking out someone hiding within a group of players, I can litterally walk through a static field and not even notice it, even better, I get swiftness from it xD

I will give it a try thanks.

The point is it perfectly suits my playstyle, I don’t like the "burst one guy, hope he’s dead and run away before you get one hit killed " mentality
I like to be able to take out ppl 1v1 and even 1v5 as I did recently no problem
I can run along within a Zerg of enemies and take out one after the other without being found or locked down and that all caters to my playstyle, I always observe, make sure I can handle the situation, take on the best target first, know when to engage/disengage
You really need to be focused and on pare with your skills (and I’m honestly not that good :P), but if you are you’ll have a lot of success with this build, at least I have

If you want a D/P or 1v1 oriented version of this build I can adjust it to those needs

Ps I’m at work so I’m really enjoying talking to you guys ^^
Keep the posts coming pls :P

Since I agree that DD is premeditated upon sticking to your opponent to land the CnD, did you test out Infiltrator’s Signet? It is what I am using now to give me that second hard stick, but I can see where Acro gives you more reliability.

With all the passive defenses and invulns and endure pains flying around, burst mitigation is at an all-time high.

Mattigan.6395:

Since I agree that DD is premeditated upon sticking to your opponent to land the CnD, did you test out Infiltrator’s Signet? It is what I am using now to give me that second hard stick, but I can see where Acro gives you more reliability.

With all the passive defenses and invulns and endure pains flying around, burst mitigation is at an all-time high.

yes and the insta stunbreaks help so much in that aspect, since i cannot be locked down

DHawk.2687:

Mattigan.6395:

Since I agree that DD is premeditated upon sticking to your opponent to land the CnD, did you test out Infiltrator’s Signet? It is what I am using now to give me that second hard stick, but I can see where Acro gives you more reliability.

With all the passive defenses and invulns and endure pains flying around, burst mitigation is at an all-time high.

yes and the insta stunbreaks help so much in that aspect, since i cannot be locked down

yeah I tried the signet, it’s strong and provides and insta shadowstep, but for me it doesnt benefit over any of the utilities I’m using, if you roam alone all the time you could take it over shadow refuge, but since I want to be able to deal with every situation no matter what and i play with friends and my focus group every now and then I feel my utilities are the most beneficial to myself and my potential group

I’m starting to think about helping out the German forum and thieves, they seem to be hurting even more, everyone is crying for a good meta and noone wants to sit down to make builds xD
it’s like reading post from a baby that just got it’s lollipop stolen ;P

DHawk.2687:

MADAIR.1948:

Yeah, I tried this build on and off since the new patch. It’s okay, I’d give it a bronze medal. One missed cloak and dagger and you’re kinda dead though. And it’s int regen is really just not good. Damage is pretty spiky once you work around, block, aegis, blind though.

As I said utilizing CnD is key in this build, as in any DD build focused around power xD
And if you miss one you shouldn’t be dead, especially not in a 1v1 1v2 situation, if you are its your fault, not the builds. The build doesn’t make you a better player, it just caters to a certain play style that takes a bit of thinking and knowing when and when not to act, when to stay in stealth to keep observing and when to attack.

The ini regen is as good as any other build without SoI but we only have 12, saying the ini is bad kinda tells me you usually spam skills every now and then, Ive never been in a situation where I couldn’t use the skill I needed
Plus you have the regen in stealth which you need to utilize

The build won’t do the work for you!

Oh, the build works. It’s just its a bronze medal build Imo. I actually only run x/d builds that are power focused. The int is no where close to the most viable builds right now but I’m glad you do well with it. I just find it very easy to shut this build down with permablinds or simply out maneuvering it. A lot easier now since when I see it in my main build they don’t blind me anymore. And stealth does kind of do a lot of the work for you, just not as much as before. I would say it’s one of the easier builds to play. Anyway, d/d in my opinion is one of the most true thief build in my opinion, I’m glad there are still people playing it.

Mattigan.6395:

Since I agree that DD is premeditated upon sticking to your opponent to land the CnD, did you test out Infiltrator’s Signet? It is what I am using now to give me that second hard stick, but I can see where Acro gives you more reliability.

With all the passive defenses and invulns and endure pains flying around, burst mitigation is at an all-time high.

I used infiltrator’s signet + shadowstep + shadow refugee before the patch.

but after the patch since most of thieves in wvw runs d/p bp helps more against their open burst than infiltrator’s signet. But yeah i do agree infiltrator’s signet is also great to land that cnd + stunbreaks and small ini recover. I do swap them around depends on situation.

Btw i tried the acro line yesterday and it worked out great especially better survivability than trickery but trickery seems to provide more burst but yeah acro is definitely a great choice imo.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Mattigan.6395:

Since I agree that DD is premeditated upon sticking to your opponent to land the CnD, did you test out Infiltrator’s Signet? It is what I am using now to give me that second hard stick, but I can see where Acro gives you more reliability.

With all the passive defenses and invulns and endure pains flying around, burst mitigation is at an all-time high.

I used infiltrator’s signet + shadowstep + shadow refugee before the patch.

but after the patch since most of thieves in wvw runs d/p bp helps more against their open burst than infiltrator’s signet. But yeah i do agree infiltrator’s signet is also great to land that cnd + stunbreaks and small ini recover. I do swap them around depends on situation.

Btw i tried the acro line yesterday and it worked out great especially better survivability than trickery but trickery seems to provide more burst but yeah acro is definitely a great choice imo.

Thanks for the info, Midori. I was going to try and get some experience with the Acro line in yesterday, but, well, life happens sometimes.

What I am trying to theorycraft here is does a d/d cs-sa-acro build deal enough damage in a sPvP environment? Does all the survive (which, admittedly, is about the best you can get these days with a thief) kill your hitting power to the point where you aren’t helping the team out as much?

Clearly this build has success in WvW, but I was wondering what the limitations and strengths it had taking it into sPvP. Will see if I can’t get some time in tonight to answer my own question.

MidoriMarch.8067:

Mattigan.6395:

Since I agree that DD is premeditated upon sticking to your opponent to land the CnD, did you test out Infiltrator’s Signet? It is what I am using now to give me that second hard stick, but I can see where Acro gives you more reliability.

With all the passive defenses and invulns and endure pains flying around, burst mitigation is at an all-time high.

I used infiltrator’s signet + shadowstep + shadow refugee before the patch.

but after the patch since most of thieves in wvw runs d/p bp helps more against their open burst than infiltrator’s signet. But yeah i do agree infiltrator’s signet is also great to land that cnd + stunbreaks and small ini recover. I do swap them around depends on situation.

Btw i tried the acro line yesterday and it worked out great especially better survivability than trickery but trickery seems to provide more burst but yeah acro is definitely a great choice imo.

If you have a hard time managing your initiative use trickery, if not use acrobatics, the defensive aspekt is very strong

Mattigan.6395:

MidoriMarch.8067:

Mattigan.6395:

Since I agree that DD is premeditated upon sticking to your opponent to land the CnD, did you test out Infiltrator’s Signet? It is what I am using now to give me that second hard stick, but I can see where Acro gives you more reliability.

With all the passive defenses and invulns and endure pains flying around, burst mitigation is at an all-time high.

I used infiltrator’s signet + shadowstep + shadow refugee before the patch.

but after the patch since most of thieves in wvw runs d/p bp helps more against their open burst than infiltrator’s signet. But yeah i do agree infiltrator’s signet is also great to land that cnd + stunbreaks and small ini recover. I do swap them around depends on situation.

Btw i tried the acro line yesterday and it worked out great especially better survivability than trickery but trickery seems to provide more burst but yeah acro is definitely a great choice imo.

Thanks for the info, Midori. I was going to try and get some experience with the Acro line in yesterday, but, well, life happens sometimes.

What I am trying to theorycraft here is does a d/d cs-sa-acro build deal enough damage in a sPvP environment? Does all the survive (which, admittedly, is about the best you can get these days with a thief) kill your hitting power to the point where you aren’t helping the team out as much?

Clearly this build has success in WvW, but I was wondering what the limitations and strengths it had taking it into sPvP. Will see if I can’t get some time in tonight to answer my own question.

well if i use the weaker version of my build in spvp i can still manage to one hit full zerk players with the CnD backstab combo, if not just one more heartseaker is needed

MADAIR.1948:

DHawk.2687:

MADAIR.1948:

Yeah, I tried this build on and off since the new patch. It’s okay, I’d give it a bronze medal. One missed cloak and dagger and you’re kinda dead though. And it’s int regen is really just not good. Damage is pretty spiky once you work around, block, aegis, blind though.

As I said utilizing CnD is key in this build, as in any DD build focused around power xD
And if you miss one you shouldn’t be dead, especially not in a 1v1 1v2 situation, if you are its your fault, not the builds. The build doesn’t make you a better player, it just caters to a certain play style that takes a bit of thinking and knowing when and when not to act, when to stay in stealth to keep observing and when to attack.

The ini regen is as good as any other build without SoI but we only have 12, saying the ini is bad kinda tells me you usually spam skills every now and then, Ive never been in a situation where I couldn’t use the skill I needed
Plus you have the regen in stealth which you need to utilize

The build won’t do the work for you!

Oh, the build works. It’s just its a bronze medal build Imo. I actually only run x/d builds that are power focused. The int is no where close to the most viable builds right now but I’m glad you do well with it. I just find it very easy to shut this build down with permablinds or simply out maneuvering it. A lot easier now since when I see it in my main build they don’t blind me anymore. And stealth does kind of do a lot of the work for you, just not as much as before. I would say it’s one of the easier builds to play. Anyway, d/d in my opinion is one of the most true thief build in my opinion, I’m glad there are still people playing it.

I wouldn’t quite call it easy, since DD isn’t easy post patch,
imho playing dd without valk gear at all, something like full zerk is just stupid, i have the same dps ase a full zerk dd player but way more survivability, and to be honest, permablind will shut down almost every player, no matter the build, since it’s a blind ^^
maybe i just haven’t encountered players that are able to shut me down, if it is as easy as you say, but i hasn’t ever happened to me, when roaming and i hit a group of 4, sometimes I can take all of em down, sometimes just 1 or 2
nontheless I’ve not died roaming once with this build unless going for a 1v1 since i don’t run away to reset in a fight. but this build isn’t focused on 1v1 only, as I’ve said it is supposed to perform well in every situation, that doesn’t make it easy, it all depends on your playstyle

if you enjoy a burst, unload all your skills on 1 guy and hope he’s dead mentality then do so, but for my playstyle and the way my build works it just doesn’t fit and imho i still see so many thieves going by that mentality. And i don’t understand why, the usually get me about to 60% health and all i need is 1 backstab to kill them, so why bother?

I was on another post and you chimed in about your build and then I found your post. I just started up my thief only level 24 and have been using dagger/sword, secondary short bow. I want to try you build with dagger/dagger. I was wondering what attack do you start off? What is the sequence you use when fighting?

The more I hear about your experience with this build the more I wanna see it in action. Maybe you could make a dueling, roaming or spvp video with commentary showing how you utilize it’s strengths and weaknesses in different situations? Doesn’t have to be super fancy or super edited and spliced. I’m sure everyone checking this build out would benefit from the info.

MADAIR.1948:

The more I hear about your experience with this build the more I wanna see it in action. Maybe you could make a dueling, roaming or spvp video with commentary showing how you utilize it’s strengths and weaknesses in different situations? Doesn’t have to be super fancy or super edited and spliced. I’m sure everyone checking this build out would benefit from the info.

I am planning to do videos like that, but in a similar post to me I already explained that I’m very short on time since I just finished school, working to finance a colledge and a car and am currently working 24 /7
once i get to it I’ll gladly hook you guys up with a few gameplay videos and/or commentaries, just now is a very busy time for me, hope you all understand.
my apologies

newsnews.3041:

I was on another post and you chimed in about your build and then I found your post. I just started up my thief only level 24 and have been using dagger/sword, secondary short bow. I want to try you build with dagger/dagger. I was wondering what attack do you start off? What is the sequence you use when fighting?

with my build i always try to combine my backstab (bs) with a Cloak & Dagger (CnD) to maximize my damage output
i mostly engage by channeling CnD, while doing that i steal to my enemy, after shadowstepping to him via steal the CnD will hit him, making me invisible and damaging him, depending on the enemy you can already hurt him for about 5k dmg and he’ll also have 3 stacks of vuln applied to him, right after the CnD hits I hit my backstab which mostly either gets him to about 30-40% hp or kills him ( depends on enemy class and build setup, e.g. full zerk thief is intantly dead after that simple engage combo). to increase your burst you can apply basi venom (elite skill) before engaging for the stun, making it very easy to hit your whole burst fast and getting a follow up heartseaker e.g. on the enemy.
if he is tankier or a condi player, make sure you damage him with autoattacks or maybe #3 for an evade, or #4 throw dagger for a cripple to make it easier for you to stay on him, once your revealed debuff runs out (4sec) use CnD again followed by a backstab, from here on out it’s just repeating that process, using your utility skills either offensivly, e.g. blinding powder quick backstab or shadowstep to get in/out of combat

Playing DD you really need to master the CnD since it’s your main source of stealth
when fighting against multiple enemies that even gives you an advantage since there are more dummies you can CnD on ^^
for those who didn’t know, you can also use enemy walls or even supply depos to CnD

hope i could help

@MADAIR
there is a youtuber with a similar playstyle as mine also playing DD (pre patch) you could check out, most of you probably know him, Yishis
form Yishis Gaming, part of RIOT and plays on the Blackgate server if I’m not mistaking
the build and playstyle as i said is similar and might help out a few of you with movement, when to attack, who to attack first and when to pull out, check out his channel
(sorry on my phone and can’t link the page atm :P)

Do you think that soldier’s armor would work okay with this? Or is Valk basically the best?

i tried it, soldier didn’t improve on anything but a little bitty toughness
but the little amount of toughness didn’t justify a reduction in most other important stats
furthermore toughness only helps against power based classes, since we have more and more condi players now and condi has become a lot stronger it doesn’t improve the build

but if i missed something concerning soldier pls notify