Guild Wars 2

Hello, all. We’ve seen it done with single weapon, we’ve seen it done with fireworks. Now, we’ve seen it done with no weapons!

Because condi teef isn’t OP

holy kitten…
/

well of course your enemies are really bad, but nice video anyway.

fumcheg.1936:

well of course your enemies are really bad, but nice video anyway.

Actually that’s not quite true. Some of them are phoenix/dragon ranks, and almost all of them are in established WvW guilds. They’re not the best players in the game, but none of them are new to PvP.

Condi teef is at a state where if you play well, and your opponent gets a little bit sloppy, you can almost always ensure a win in a 1v1.

Working as intended. xD

Sad to say that was my engi toward the end. Was very sad when i saw i got beat by a guy with no weapons. Op or not what was your build or trait spread. Id like to troll a bit with my thief

Sorrowsthief.6472:

Sad to say that was my engi toward the end. Was very sad when i saw i got beat by a guy with no weapons. Op or not what was your build or trait spread. Id like to troll a bit with my thief

Hey, good fight, and no need to feel bad about it because I actually won against quite a few solid players with this build. Like I said, if I play well and my opponent gets even a little careless, perplexity still makes it very punishing.

Here’s the build:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQBVSzkan28E3mQ/0E0Ek3X5LlRrA0dUOSfB-TVREABIoE8Ilf4o+Tx7PAg5PRBATA-w

I’ve begun experimenting with some alternative traits as well. For classes that don’t apply a ton of conditions, I could take Hard to Catch or Master Trapper in place of Pain Response. Similarly, for a class that doesn’t rely on boons as heavily, I could replace Bountiful Theft with Trickster. For general roaming purposes, however, I find the above trait spread to be ideal.

Inb4 senseless defense about how condi dire (thief) isn’t OP.

Sorry, but there is way too much inherent durability in the set.

I wouldn’t say overpowered I mean in a dueling since it works great but I mean how often do you fight one versus one out there in open world before u gets adds of 3and4 people. Builds like this are meant for duels and roaming 1vs2 and such. OP to me is game breaking. I dont see this build breaking anything, it may make people cry or rage quit simetimes but it doesnt break the game. My advice to u is find a few friends and quit crying about clever builds that make u claim OP!

mango.9267:

Hello, all. We’ve seen it done with single weapon, we’ve seen it done with fireworks. Now, we’ve seen it done with no weapons!

Because condi teef isn’t OP

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFMzBXrxq_I

Is that Scorpion Wire? Imagine that.

Great show, enjoyed it!

technically engi doesn’t need a weapon either. kits are MORE than enough for them. so i dont get the point in this.

Meh that was more dire+perplexity runes or just the runes but confusion should be useless if you are not using any weapons. Good vid tough the opponents seem unaware of what to do I am still cracking my head on how they let this happen.

No need to stealth against guys like that lol just eat the condi and burst. Let’s label them blind spammers ^^.

Sorrowsthief.6472:

I wouldn’t say overpowered I mean in a dueling since it works great but I mean how often do you fight one versus one out there in open world before u gets adds of 3and4 people. Builds like this are meant for duels and roaming 1vs2 and such. OP to me is game breaking. I dont see this build breaking anything, it may make people cry or rage quit simetimes but it doesnt break the game. My advice to u is find a few friends and quit crying about clever builds that make u claim OP!

I actually agree with you here. P/D condi is pretty useless against group sizes of five and up, assuming they run a proper tryhard comp.

However, P/D condi is still very strong against groups that aren’t running proper comps, which are most groups in WvW. Moreover, dire + perplexity make the set very easy to play, with very high reward for very little risk. In my opinion, Anet shouldn’t allow this kind of build to exist as it is.

Achey.3612:

technically engi doesn’t need a weapon either. kits are MORE than enough for them. so i dont get the point in this.

Lol, thief utilities are nothing like engi kits. Obviously, it would be a bit of a moot point to do this on an engi. A thief without weapons is waaaaaaaaay more handicapped than an engi without weapons.

From what I saw, the only reason why those players lost were because they were bunkers fighting a condition bunker spec. While the bunkers were not dealing much damage, they were dying to the conditions that bypassed their toughness. So not only were they not dealing much damage but their armor didn’t matter. Basically the players who were losing were fighting bare.

yolo swaggins.2570:

From what I saw, the only reason why those players lost were because they were bunkers fighting a condition bunker spec. While the bunkers were not dealing much damage, they were dying to the conditions that bypassed their toughness. So not only were they not dealing much damage but their armor didn’t matter. Basically the players who were losing were fighting bare.

Plus the fact they were all bads also helps

I tried building my meditation guard to specifically counter condition builds, especially the thief one with pistol, with as much condition removal as possible on him, still every so called fight – if it could be called so – ended horribly for me with condition cleanses on cooldown. Nothing fun on even meeting these guys anymore, if I see a thief with condition food I just go away.
So I finally dragged myself to these forums to find the build they are using so I can level up at thief and see what it is all about, and I see this thread with a video where good players with high PvP ranks get wrecked without the thief even using weapons. I don’t know what to say… Profession Balance forum is full of thieves wanting nerfs to Rangers while they have this…

Many “roamers” “suck”. Not everyone who roams is an spvper/dueler. This video is a legit example of everyday opponents no different then all those other roaming montages we see.

This vid inspires me to make a weaponless trapper ranger ;-)

It’s impressive how bad those people are at PvP’ing… truly impressive. They should write guides on how to be like that.

:/ If you run over traps and or stand in your opponents AoE fields or let your self bleed out… well you desire what you get.

-shakes fist- See? See?! I told you all! Condi p/d is OP!! And you all laughed at my post, all of you! Nevermind that I was trying to make you laugh!!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/P-D-I-hate-it-but/first

-picks up a torch and pitchfork- Down with P/D!! Down!!

yea, you are TVC arent you, thats one OP stat which should never be seem in PvP.
and perplexity, thats why wvw will never be balanced.

yolo swaggins.2570:

From what I saw, the only reason why those players lost were because they were bunkers fighting a condition bunker spec. While the bunkers were not dealing much damage, they were dying to the conditions that bypassed their toughness. So not only were they not dealing much damage but their armor didn’t matter. Basically the players who were losing were fighting bare.

You couldn’t be more wrong here. With the exception of the condi necro/PU condi mesmer, everyone else was running some DPS build. The reason I don’t take much damage is because full dire gives a ton of health and toughness, and acrobatics (vigorous recovery + feline grace) makes it so that I can avoid most telegraphed bursts.

Zero Day.2594:

It’s impressive how bad those people are at PvP’ing… truly impressive. They should write guides on how to be like that.

:/ If you run over traps and or stand in your opponents AoE fields or let your self bleed out… well you desire what you get.

Eh, you’re right in that it would be very easy to counter if opponents knew that I was running caltrops/needle trap. However, I caught a number of them off guard, and 6 in acro means I’ll be able to kite around and into them very easily.

Also, the needle trap + caltrops + scorpion wire + dodge is actually a pretty solid combo. Sometimes I wait till both of their dodges are up and I hit them with that, forcing them to stay in the bleeds.

Justine.6351:

Many “roamers” “suck”. Not everyone who roams is an spvper/dueler. This video is a legit example of everyday opponents no different then all those other roaming montages we see.

Like I said, some of them are actually solid players — just caught off guard. Perplexity still makes it very punishing if you make mistakes.

Vikkela.7261:

I tried building my meditation guard to specifically counter condition builds, especially the thief one with pistol, with as much condition removal as possible on him, still every so called fight – if it could be called so – ended horribly for me with condition cleanses on cooldown. Nothing fun on even meeting these guys anymore, if I see a thief with condition food I just go away.
So I finally dragged myself to these forums to find the build they are using so I can level up at thief and see what it is all about, and I see this thread with a video where good players with high PvP ranks get wrecked without the thief even using weapons. I don’t know what to say… Profession Balance forum is full of thieves wanting nerfs to Rangers while they have this…

If you are like the guard in that video whose goal was to collect every single caltrops field he see, then nothing can help you, sorry.

interesting gameplay to watch but what!!?? a d/d ele cant even remove condis?

Coloxeus.3480:

interesting gameplay to watch but what!!?? a d/d ele cant even remove condis?

Well, the uncatchable trait lets me reapply condi’s pretty quickly, and because d/d ele’s remove condi’s incrementally, I just spam dodge on top of them when I see them swap to water or using ether renewal. Also, caltrops pulse bleeds, and immobilize (from the needle trap) is usually one of the last conditions to be removed.

Still, you do have a point in that d/d ele is the toughest matchup for this. If they kite away and heal up, there’s very little I can do about it.

LOL

mango stop defending these “PvPers” that you embarrass in these videos

I had to watch it again because I am simply so amazed how bad people are at this game

Narkodx.1472:

LOL

mango stop defending these “PvPers” that you embarrass in these videos

I had to watch it again because I am simply so amazed how bad people are at this game

I’m just trying to be fair. For example, I dueled the d/d ele at the end of the video 3 or 4 times, and the fight in the video was the only one I won. It was the first fight, and I caught him off-guard with my playstyle/build. It can happen to everyone, including competent players.

By nature, these videos never do the opponents justice because I only select clips where I win. The opponents clearly make mistakes in the clips, but that doesn’t mean they’re bad players in general.

mango.9267:

Narkodx.1472:

LOL

mango stop defending these “PvPers” that you embarrass in these videos

I had to watch it again because I am simply so amazed how bad people are at this game

I’m just trying to be fair. For example, I dueled the d/d ele at the end of the video 3 or 4 times, and the fight in the video was the only one I won. It was the first fight, and I caught him off-guard with my playstyle/build. It can happen to everyone, including competent players.

By nature, these videos never do the opponents justice because I only select clips where I win. The opponents clearly make mistakes in the clips, but that doesn’t mean they’re bad players in general.

So in this post you completely invalidate your initial claim “because condi teef isn’t OP.” You selectively chose videos in which you won and admit that anyone who is remotely prepared will either win or retreat. Weird.

Still, entertaining build.

Black Frog.9274:

So in this post you completely invalidate your initial claim “because condi teef isn’t OP.” You selectively chose videos in which you won and admit that anyone who is remotely prepared will either win or retreat. Weird.

Still, entertaining build.

It doesn’t invalidate the initial claim because I’m still winning without weapons (sometimes even against competent players), even if I did catch my opponents off-guard. I can’t imagine many other builds doing this weaponless, whether the opponent was prepared or not.

Condi teef is OP because dire stats and perplexity runes synergize very well with certain traits and utilities. This video would be completely faceroll and uninteresting if I had weapons on.

In the interest of full disclosure, the video was made from around 3 hours of footage, recorded within a 24 hour window. I did die a lot, but also won enough that I had to cut quite a few clips out.

I would also be willing to bet that if I had posted a video featuring the exact same opponents, but where I’m using weapons, the comments wouldn’t focus on how bad the opponents were.

It’s an interesting video and an interesting premise. It doesn’t do anything for your argument about condi thief being OP. If you aren’t winning the overwhelming majority of the time, it’s hardly OP. What I found interesting about the video is that in most cases, your opponents made no real attempt to disengage and escape, which makes me think they were arranged 1v1s. Mobility and tactical retreat are part of the game too.

I personally have no opinion on whether it’s OP or not. If you wanted to convince someone like me it was OP, grab some weapons and win against the most cleanse-y, AoE spamming, long range weapon classes. Even then I’d be sceptical since it’s 1v1. I don’t see a lot of hordes of condi, SB thieves wiping out zergs in large scale WvW fights. You’d think there would be if it was that OP.

Still fun premise and I’m totally copying part of your build.

Besides what black said above, defeating the most cleanse-y, AoE spamming, … to show that it’s OP.

Provided you have enough time on your hands, you can come back a few weeks later showing a montage video of you killing everyone with a healing spell and just dagger storm on your bar. Just have to find even less aware targets, possibly already pre-injured, hopefully lagging too. Low chances of finding that (in a week) but it can probably done over a span of a few months say… Then you wrap it up in a nice montage with some music.. and vola “weaponless 1 healing, and 1 damage spell thief pwning noobs”. Hence why I easily reject montage videos as a source of what’s OP or not.

It’s the same thing in UFC (rarely watch it) when they introduce a fighter and they show skits of them just being a beast and dominating their opponents – then the real fight starts and they kitten the bed… “But how can this beast of a fighter lose? Did you not see how he wrecked people in all those skits?” – “Oh yeah… they were just a handful of skits chosen to just glorify the fighter and pump the crowd up.”

Montage videos are inspirational though…

mango.9267:

You couldn’t be more wrong here. With the exception of the condi necro/PU condi mesmer, everyone else was running some DPS build. The reason I don’t take much damage is because full dire gives a ton of health and toughness, and acrobatics (vigorous recovery + feline grace) makes it so that I can avoid most telegraphed bursts.

I don’t know about that. The amount of toughness and vitality dire gives wouldn’t be considered “a ton” simply because all it does is push your HP slightly above medium tier. That isn’t “a ton”. A warrior or necro with dire would be better considered “a ton”.

And if they were running DPS then they were not attacking enough. But then again, they weren’t cleansing enough either, if at all. Alot of them were autoattacking air more than hitting their other attacks. Almost none of them switched weapons. Pretty much everything they did was lackluster.

Even if you were right about their gear, anyone can look at your video and think the players you fought in that video sucked bad. If anything, your video bashes Henge more than shows the effectiveness of a dire/perplexity thief (or anything).

It does give me a good idea for a build, however.

All this while keyboard-turning and skill-clicking… I don’t even… what? o_O

Well.. the truth is Dire/Perplexity thief is actually not OP and I regularly defeat this spec with the normal power x/6/6/x/x build

Most of the players I do defeat using this spec are just not as good as I am – given equal skill level I still would not lose to the build though – it would just be a stalemate cuz stealth and disengage

Condi Necro in a normal duel with no surprise attacks/disengages should defeat this build as well – Plague Signet/Deathly Swarm/Putrid Mark/Well of Power – Negates everything a Condi Thief can do

Black Frog.9274:

It’s an interesting video and an interesting premise. It doesn’t do anything for your argument about condi thief being OP. If you aren’t winning the overwhelming majority of the time, it’s hardly OP. What I found interesting about the video is that in most cases, your opponents made no real attempt to disengage and escape, which makes me think they were arranged 1v1s. Mobility and tactical retreat are part of the game too.

The thought is basically: if it’s possible for me, a so-so 1v1 player, to beat some competent players without weapons, this build is too easy to play. So easy to play that if I did have weapons, I’m sure I would win the overwhelming majority of the time.

And yes, some were arranged 1v1’s in that they were duels. In a duel, it’s distasteful to disengage or stall indefinitely.

yolo swaggins.2570:

And if they were running DPS then they were not attacking enough. But then again, they weren’t cleansing enough either, if at all. Alot of them were autoattacking air more than hitting their other attacks. Almost none of them switched weapons. Pretty much everything they did was lackluster.

Well, if they did attack a lot more, the confusion would be that much more damaging. Moreover, many of the times they’re not attacking, I’m standing on top of my caltrops or my trap, which they don’t want to run into. That’s part of the problem though. Feline grace + vigorous recovery, mug, sleight of hand, and withdraw already give decent sustain. Dire stats only make it worse. Add stealth on top of it, and you basically won’t die unless you mess up really badly or there are ten people killing you.

kiwituatara.6053:

All this while keyboard-turning and skill-clicking… I don’t even… what? o_O

When I play on my laptop keyboard, the alt key gets stuck, so I end up having to click. Incidentally, you can tell when I’m using my laptop keyboard and when I’m not by seeing when I’m clicking and when I’m not. I never keyboard turn unless my mouse bugs out.

I admit that I didn’t really get the purpose of this thread/video. To show that condi thieves are op? That was when I kind of wondered if they are still a thing as I see maybe one condi thief a week, but then again, I switched to EU where no one really plays condi thieves because they’re too easy – most people who play thief do so because they’re not easy.
When I was on my condi thief I lost about 5% of my fights and that was against condi builds (was an even worse noob back then). Not a huge fan of condi, so I don’t really know what potential other classes have so I can’t say whether or not it’s just condi thief who is OP or conditions in general or runes of perplexity (which I don’t use, btw).
Anyway I kind of liked this video, so thanks for that =)

Narkodx.1472:

Well.. the truth is Dire/Perplexity thief is actually not OP and I regularly defeat this spec with the normal power x/6/6/x/x build

Most of the players I do defeat using this spec are just not as good as I am – given equal skill level I still would not lose to the build though – it would just be a stalemate cuz stealth and disengage

Condi Necro in a normal duel with no surprise attacks/disengages should defeat this build as well – Plague Signet/Deathly Swarm/Putrid Mark/Well of Power – Negates everything a Condi Thief can do

not really, because a perplexity tvc thief can easily CC you out of 5 2 combo. not to mention they can also run shadow rejuv.

Jana.6831:

I admit that I didn’t really get the purpose of this thread/video. To show that condi thieves are op?

There was no purpose other than to entertain. I regret that my snarky comment about condi teefs steered this discussion in that direction, but I’m glad you (kinda) enjoyed the video anyway!

I have both dire/perplexity set and dire/krait set. Perplexity is good for 1vs1 fights which are pretty seldom in www. And only if you had success with landing your steal/interrupt. My best result was 18 stacks of confusion. It was 2 seconds fight. But that does not mean that Condi Thief is OP. That just mean that all these ppl do not know how to fight against Condi Thief.

And of course 5 successful fights of 50 (like in OP video) do not mean that Condi Thief is OP.

fumcheg.1936:

I have both dire/perplexity set and dire/krait set. Perplexity is good for 1vs1 fights which are pretty seldom in www. And only if you had success with landing your steal/interrupt. My best result was 18 stacks of confusion. It was 2 seconds fight. But that does not mean that Condi Thief is OP. That just mean that all these ppl do not know how to fight against Condi Thief.

And of course 5 successful fights of 50 (like in OP video) do not mean that Condi Thief is OP.

Eh, condi teef is pretty OP in small scaled combat, assuming the groups you fight aren’t running proper comps. At the highest level of play with proper groups, condi teefs are mediocre.

And my win/loss ratio is actually much better than you think. With 3 hours of footage, I have around 20 minutes of usable clips, and that 3 hours includes running around looking for fights, flipping camps, etc.. I’d say in dueling, my win ratio is anywhere between 30-50%, and in general roaming, maybe closer to 50% because I can run away.

Of course, with weapons, I can’t imagine losing unless outnumbered or really messing up.

mango.9267:

fumcheg.1936:

well of course your enemies are really bad, but nice video anyway.

Actually that’s not quite true. Some of them are phoenix/dragon ranks, and almost all of them are in established WvW guilds. They’re not the best players in the game, but none of them are new to PvP.

Condi teef is at a state where if you play well, and your opponent gets a little bit sloppy, you can almost always ensure a win in a 1v1.

Dragon rank really means nothing now.

What makes this sad is that people lost to a thief with no weapons…
especially that necro that stood in all of your traps and AoE’s…

I honestly feel like a pro watching these people play.

Solori.6025:

Dragon rank really means nothing now.

What makes this sad is that people lost to a thief with no weapons…
especially that necro that stood in all of your traps and AoE’s…

I honestly feel like a pro watching these people play.

Well, yeah, high PvP rank doesn’t really mean you’re good at roaming or dueling, since PvP is about rotating quickly, having good map awareness, and holding points. However, having a high PvP rank does show that you’re at least somewhat competent at fighting other people.

That said, I feared the necro into the caltrops, and then scorpion wired him into the needle trap, making it easy for me to dodge on top of him. It wasn’t actually his stupidity that killed him there.

mango.9267:

Solori.6025:

Dragon rank really means nothing now.

What makes this sad is that people lost to a thief with no weapons…
especially that necro that stood in all of your traps and AoE’s…

I honestly feel like a pro watching these people play.

Well, yeah, high PvP rank doesn’t really mean you’re good at roaming or dueling, since PvP is about rotating quickly, having good map awareness, and holding points. However, having a high PvP rank does show that you’re at least somewhat competent at fighting other people.

That said, I feared the necro into the caltrops, and then scorpion wired him into the needle trap, making it easy for me to dodge on top of him. It wasn’t actually his stupidity that killed him there.

It’s people who ignore condis on target and underestimate how strong control condis are that think the target was dumb.

mango.9267:

Solori.6025:

Dragon rank really means nothing now.

What makes this sad is that people lost to a thief with no weapons…
especially that necro that stood in all of your traps and AoE’s…

I honestly feel like a pro watching these people play.

Well, yeah, high PvP rank doesn’t really mean you’re good at roaming or dueling, since PvP is about rotating quickly, having good map awareness, and holding points. However, having a high PvP rank does show that you’re at least somewhat competent at fighting other people.

That said, I feared the necro into the caltrops, and then scorpion wired him into the needle trap, making it easy for me to dodge on top of him. It wasn’t actually his stupidity that killed him there.

Well yes and no.

The CC combo was brilliant.
But the necro
Threw marks in random places.
Didn’t switch weapons
Didn’t evade

and one of my unforgivable pvp sins.
backpedal

I just see many opportunities where the necro could have turned this fight around, with either a good placed mark, evade, or fear.

Maybe that’s just me overestimating the situation?

Edit:
Nevermind..
That necro was using the signet heal.
GG

That is why p/d preplex dire thieves should get banned from the game.

Sandrox.9524:

That is why p/d preplex dire thieves should get banned from the game.

They should just revert the d/p and s/d nerfs.

sPvP Rank doesn’t matter thanks to Skyhammer farming.
all kittenty

Fun experiment, grats to OP. I’ve tried similar with Krait runes (Dagger Storm is a beast with Krait runes) and managed to drop a few without using weapons but mostly ended up resetting.

I run D/D P/D conditions in sPvP now and it owns hard there too when fighting players. Not so awesome for conquering and holding inanimate pieces of graphics, so no good for tPvP. But if you want to kill people and not die… yum.