watching this makes me cry….
I’m watching carefully to see how things land for you and they land really well and consistantly…..I might be wrong and maybe some Oceanic player can show that I am but I don’t think this level of play as a dagger thief is possible from our side of the world
Howver I am on a mission to figure out how I can do it.
(edited by Iohanna.4863)
watching this makes me cry….
I’m watching carefully to see how things land for you and they land really well and consistantly…..I might be wrong and maybe some Oceanic player can show that I am but I don’t think this level of play as a dagger thief is possible from our side of the world
Howver I am on a mission to figure out how I can do it.
As an oceanic thief player, It is really hard to have such smooth play like shown in the video. You have to compensate for the latency, For back stabs to land you need to be almost ontop of them, or in front. Makes it kind of frustrating but it is possible!
watching this makes me cry….
I’m watching carefully to see how things land for you and they land really well and consistantly…..I might be wrong and maybe some Oceanic player can show that I am but I don’t think this level of play as a dagger thief is possible from our side of the world
Howver I am on a mission to figure out how I can do it.
I live in CA, so I’m fairly close to their data center and don’t lag much. However, on some rare nights I do hit high latency and it makes these types of fights near impossible. It’s very true that the difference between success and death in these fights is split-second decisions, and if the result of your actions are delayed by latency, you’re likely to bite the bullet rather quickly. I definitely feel for you, the latency can really hurt a twitchy class like this.
Question: have you ever considered using Dagger/Pistol in your alternate weapon load-out?
You may not be able to wield it fluidly without initiative regeneration, but you can use it to maintain stealth when there are no targets to CnD off of.
Yep, I definitely have. I keep a pistol in my bag at all times and do switch to it at times. I used to use it more often as I definitely like the anytime stealth and blind puddle. More recently, I admittedly have not had the urge to use it as much though – I think it has something to do with:
- the additional actions required to stealth (having to drop the blind pool then heartseeker). It’s definitely effective, I just have a hard time feeling as fluid using the combo field for stealth.
- I also don’t like that the duration of the stealth (with just 1 heartseeker in the combo field) is a second shorter than C&D’s default stealth.
- the stealth action can be more dangerous in outnumbered fights like this. What I mean by this is that I might accidentally heartseeker too close to an enemy and knock myself out of stealth.
- If an intelligent enemy walks into my blind pool / realizes it, they’ll have an idea where I am.
- The requirement of heartseeker means I’m forced to change position (leap) to stealth, which feels less clean than just being able to maintain control of my current position.
With all of the above in mind, I’d still like to play more with D/P in the future.
BTW, nice videos @Iohanna
Hi Yashi, given your stealth-intensive build, how useful could Hidden Thief be, for that extra stealth option? I am running a similar build, except i got 10 points in Trickery trait for Kleptomanic and Thrill of the Crime, and 10 points on Deadly Art for Mug. My build: 10/30/20/0/10
Hidden Thief would be useful but I can’t afford it – my current Shadow Arts traits are far too important for survivability. I also don’t like to rely on steal much – the cooldown is too long for my liking, and I also don’t have any points in trickery to reduce that cooldown.
I was having a crack again last night. It went….ok. I’m finding that Mesmers and Elementalists more so are almost impossible for me if they can play. The elementalist can unload their big damage combo basically every time and the timing to hit mesmers seems really difficult. This isn’t for all but a lot, on top of that a GC thief with basilisk is going to get me most times unless I stealth beforehand because he wins the “Snap” match.
….might have to try a pistol condition spec once I have the gold for a complete overhaul :/
D/D elementalists played well are definitely one of the most difficult fights. It requires a lot of dodging and mobility, which is tough since they are already very mobile as well. I’ll have 10+ minute fights with good D/D elementalists – usually it only ends when one of us gets too greedy and gets in a bad position.
Mesmers are usually more bearable as long as you can keep track of which is the real one. I actually like fighting mesmers usually since all of the clones they leave hanging around make for great and easy C&D targets. This usually lets me have the upper-hand of staying stealthed easily and often.
For thief Basilisk Venom – you definitely have to keep an eye on it. If I notice a thief running it, I have Shadowstep ready to break out of the stun. If Shadowstep is not up, there’s a good chance I’ll be in trouble.
…
duel and beat Second to God. Then we’ll talk =)
Second to God is in RIOT with me and we run together often
. Great player for sure. He’s also playing his elementalist (Teh Sanny) in my 3vX video:
I think I am going to try a battle ping type service and see if that helps me to land some of the CnDs that seem to be missing for me
By the way watching your use of CnD has been a big help to me. Coming from being and infiltrator in DAoC (quite successful), then a rogue in WoW (less successful), to now a Thief in GW2 I have been the least successful with this. The transition in playstyle has taken a little while.
just a question, when you are cc’d like immo’d you use shadow step to break it….just shadow step and not shadow return? Because when im immo’d and use shadow step…i’m still immo’d just at a different spot :/
The immobilize condition stays on me, but my position does change as you noted. In almost all cases, that position change is enough to let me escape. By the time the enemy realizes where I’ve stepped to and caught up with me, the immobilize is gone and I can fully break away. If I really can’t get away, then I can use shadow return to fully remove the condition; additionally, the 2nd position change definitely buys enough time to get away / re-stealth.
For your traits in shadow arts, what are your opinions on cloaked in shadow and shadows embrace? I seem to find myself switching between the both of those
They definitely are both good. In the long run, I’ve stuck with Cloaked in Shadow. The blind is invaluable. Since I’m re-stealthing nearly every 3-5 seconds, the AoE blind that often is a major damage reduction and can really fluster the enemies.
The condition removal in Shadow’s Embrace is definitely good, however, I find that Shadow’s Rejuvenation almost always heals for enough to offset any conditions ticking on me while I’m in stealth. With that damage offset, conditions don’t bother me much, and it means that I can continue to heal even more if I have no or weak conditions on me. Granted, there are cases where I get heavily condition stacked, but generally that’s only an issue with really well played necros or engineers, and those don’t pass by often. If they do, it just requires more intelligent positioning / evasion / use of condition removal (heal and shadowstep utility, or a full duration Shadow Refuge if really needed).
Thanks everyone for the comments
watching this makes me cry….
I’m watching carefully to see how things land for you and they land really well and consistantly…..I might be wrong and maybe some Oceanic player can show that I am but I don’t think this level of play as a dagger thief is possible from our side of the world
Howver I am on a mission to figure out how I can do it.
I have the same lag problem here where I am, the way I found to counter it was to go d/p so I can land the stealthing combos. I still miss a lot of BS due to lag (players are not where they show on my side) but as you can still get in stealth without hitting anyone you have better chances to survive. You aer going to need more ini regen, so changing the traits in critical strikes for acrobatics (for the 4 ini/10sec) and using the ini regen signet might help. Get berserker gear on place of valk to rebuild the lost prec, since you get vit from trait points anyway…
(edited by Kravick.4906)
I am very impressed by what you’ve shown here. I don’t WvW, but I end up feeling bad knowing that you’re killing people from my server (TC). Anyways, watching your video has really inspired me to dust off my thief again. I haven’t had a great time in any form of combat (PvE, WvW, sPvP), but I’m going to get my feet wet in a couple dungeons and sPvP with what you run. I enjoy the look of your build, but what gets me the most is your keybindings.
You have the fourth dagger skill set to Q, and everything other weapon attack set to C, V, F, and X. Your utilities are set to 1-5. How do you manage to use all these skills, turn with the precision of the mouse, and STILL be able to pull off dodge rolls to one side or another? I just can’t do all that at once, myself.
Lastly, why Valkyrie and Berserker gear? I’m curious as to why you take a mixture of the gear when you don’t really need the extra precision, or do ’zerker stats just have better power and crit damage?
Thank you for showing the community that the thief is truly something to be feared in the right hands!
Regarding my gear and auto-attack chain to time C&D’s, Kravick is absolutely correct – thanks Kravick! In general, I think of this build and playstyle as much more than the cookie cutter “backstab big and run away until I can do it again.” I see this as a skirmisher – someone with strong damage and still strong staying power. If you watch some of my other videos – particularly the 3vX where I’m playing with some teammates – I stick around in fights and put out constant pressure just as any other true melee class would. The stealth is a survivability tool to me – a way to stay in the fight consistently; it’s not just an “escape for the next big crit backstab.” So, with that in mind, I prefer my gear to allow me to assist in staying in the fight longer- thus the preference for respectable precision and more vitality.
My keybindings are extremely important to me. I strongly prefer my most-used combat abilities to be highly accessible. To me, the absolute best access is my thumb. So, with my fingers on WASD, my left hand thumb is able to very easily engage C, V, X, F, Q, E and so those are my go-to hotkeys. The benefit to using your thumb is that your fingers remain fully accessible to stay on WASD. The 1-5 keys, while still good, restrict your overall movement capabilities. For example, try strafing forward & left (W+A) and spamming 1 or 2: it is not easily possible (unless you have big hands or a master pinky reach, which I don’t). Thus, I have my main weapon abilities in direct access to my thumb, and my utilities – which are used much less often – bound to # keys. (Note that Q suffers the same fate as number keys, but the Q weapon skill is generally not something I need such immediate access to).
Also, my dodge is bound to Shift. So, while my left hand fingers handle movement & utilities, and my thumb handles main weapon abilities, my pinky is free to trigger dodges. Altogether, this is what allows for precise movement and controlled evades while still staying quick on attacks.
Hope that helps. Thanks, and glad you enjoyed the video
Yashi, thanks for the video and commentary. I’ve played a lot of MMOs and usually with stealth characters, but just couldn’t get the knack for playing a thief. Was ready to hang it up when I saw your videos.
So, I modified my build and went out there—and then I wanted to hang it up because I met with so much fail. Then I actually listened to your commentary and watched how you moved into, out of, and around skirmishes.
And then it clicked! I can stay in battles forever, have great survivability and have become much more adept at stomping. I still can’t down people as fast as you (could be because I’m fighting against Blackgate players currently!), but I feel much more effective.
Essentially what I learned from watching your vids is to be quick, be patient and be persistent (and don’t miss your CnDs).
I do have a question: How do you deal with or anticipate all the CC (knockdowns, etc) that gets thrown at you while you are stealthed? It seems I’m always getting knocked down or held by AOE. Any advice?
thanks again!
Thanks for the kind words and glad you enjoyed.
Regarding anticipating CC while stealthed, it really comes down to positional awareness and being able to briefly put yourself in your enemy’s shoes. If you just went into stealth, you have to expect that enemy(s) are going to try to to AoE/CC on your last known location. Yes, sometimes you get lucky and have enemies that don’t understand stealth – but your best bet is to assume the enemy is well played and execute due diligence to get out of dodge.
When stealthed, you are at the highest risk right after entering into stealth. That’s why you’ll see that in a lot of my fights, I execute a dodge immediately after entering stealth in a majority of cases. Especially if I just stealthed via C&D and know the enemy saw me do it, I dodge right away because I’m anticipating he’ll try to hit me where I just stealthed. Getting a dodge off as you enter stealth allows you to avoid that initial aggression and quickly reposition yourself. Don’t always dodge in the same direction either – dodge roll in a direction you think the enemy won’t expect, then continue to move briefly before re-opening. If you can avoid the first burst and reposition quickly, the enemy won’t get many/any hits into you, and he’ll most likely AoE/CC in the wrong location as you’ve already moved to a safe location.
If you do take a CC and get in trouble, Shadowstep is your escape. If Shadowstep is down, you need to play a bit more cautiously as, if you get caught in long CC again, you have no stun break.
…with all that in mind, it still comes down to luck / spidy-senses sometimes
Good luck!