Guild Wars 2

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0eYCitzA0k

Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsYFm4lQ46n3rT/W7FBGA-TVTDwAUVSc4BAk4EA8U52LVbwcIAApHg3+DAMBpQJokjAQM1EirJgUALKMC-w
(gear is exactly the same as my D/D set up)

I’ve been playing PvP with the new D/P meta and wanted to see how it’d translate over to S/D. Surprisingly, there’s a lot of synergy between panic strike and S/D that I feel many thieves gloss over. I’ve come across very few people running these traits on S/D and hope to encourage some people who play S/D better than I do to give them a shot.

Sustain

20606 and 20066 clearly have more sustain, and the latter plays a bit more fluidly due to feline grace. Moreover, in sets with more sustain, you can afford to be more liberal with flanking strike, since you can evade or stealth if you’re low on initiative. 60206, however, relies on abusing infiltrator’s strike/return and shadowstep for sustain, so missing a flanking strike drains the initiative you need for infiltrator’s strike/return. I find most of my initiative goes towards porting in, getting some auto’s, then porting out. On the plus side, all of your attacks hit much harder on 60206 than on 20606, so it’s not really a net damage loss from the less liberal use of flanking strike.

Benefits of deadly arts

The burst is comparable to 26006 S/D, but I feel there are a number of benefits to picking 60206 over 26006. You have the textbook reasons to go into DA — weakness on poison, long-duration immobilize, more power, possibly improvisation, better synergy with team mates, etc.

However, what I feel many players overlook about DA and S/D specifically is that, in light of the flanking strike/larcenous strike changes, being able to confirm a flanking strike is a huge advantage. With 30% condition duration (70% in WvW), infiltrator’s strike is a 1.25 (1.75 in WvW) sec immobilize, which guarantees you’ll land your flanking strike (provided the opponent doesn’t blow a defensive cooldown). This is incredibly helpful because you don’t have to waste your gap closers on your flanking strike and can instead save them for your larcenous strike/cloak and dagger.

Moreover, when panic strike proc’s, you have enough time for a flanking strike, larcenous strike, and two auto’s (or an entire autoattack chain + something else). This will finish all opponents who aren’t bunkers. 26006 gives you executioner when your opponent is below 50%, but you lack the ability to confirm your finishing blows. 60206 gives you slightly less damage when opponents are below 50%, but the opponent is immobilized for 4.25 sec, which will let you finish them off more reliably than 26006 would.

Hope you guys give the build a shot. Comments, questions, suggestions are all welcome.

Nice vid mate! Love that withdraw transition near the beginning haha Hope to see you in tier 2 again ~Ressuscité (if you can remember me )

Nice video, thanks for making it!

This method of play that you’ve described is a fun style. Relying on sword 2 as a main weapon and using your plentiful immobilization to dominate the positioning game is fun, and it also goes a long way towards both sustain, and mitigation, which is great!

I think you point out a good synergy with sword/x builds and 6 DA. The immob you get from panic strike is a great way to preserve your infil strike, and let your return either expire, or save it for a juke, saving ini while still doing immob!

On the one hand, I think this play style works best with S/P, with the greater potential for DPS since most S/D dps comes from, or fs/ls, or mug+cloak and dagger. This style does less of that, taking less advantage of x/D, in favor of sword 2 using the ini.

In your video, though, you do still manage to use the dagger quite intelligently, especially for condi clear, or for combos with steal/infil sig, when appropriate, followed by a tactical strike. Those are things you miss out on with S/P. You also miss out on c&d, weapon swap, shortbow immob, which this build really likes, for that extra kick of immob!

I wonder how it would work if you fit in quick venoms and slotting devourer, maybe to replace infil sig.

Do you feel immob focused build is less advantageous vs -condi duration builds, like nike warrior?

AlCojester.4316:

Nice vid mate! Love that withdraw transition near the beginning haha Hope to see you in tier 2 again ~Ressuscité (if you can remember me )

Hey, yeah, I’ll probably play T2 more, since the no white swords thing killed roaming in T3. Alternatively, you might see me in T3, since I believe YB is being focused down. Feel free to PM any time.

Woaden.9425:

I think you point out a good synergy with sword/x builds and 6 DA. The immob you get from panic strike is a great way to preserve your infil strike, and let your return either expire, or save it for a juke, saving ini while still doing immob!

I’d say it goes even further because +30% condition duration means landing infiltrator’s strike confirms a flanking strike, which is a huuuuuge advantage. But yes, knowing panic strike will proc also saves you from using return too early.

Woaden.9425:

On the one hand, I think this play style works best with S/P, with the greater potential for DPS since most S/D dps comes from, or fs/ls, or mug+cloak and dagger. This style does less of that, taking less advantage of x/D, in favor of sword 2 using the ini.

In your video, though, you do still manage to use the dagger quite intelligently, especially for condi clear, or for combos with steal/infil sig, when appropriate, followed by a tactical strike. Those are things you miss out on with S/P. You also miss out on c&d, weapon swap, shortbow immob, which this build really likes, for that extra kick of immob!

This build does work for S/P, though I feel S/P benefits a lot from critical haste and sigil of rage, which this build doesn’t have. But you’re right on the money with why I chose S/D over S/P: S/D offers much better condition management due to CnD and shadow’s embrace. Without shadow’s embrace, I’d have to return to clear conditions, which would be a huge loss for my damage/positioning game.

Woaden.9425:

I wonder how it would work if you fit in quick venoms and slotting devourer, maybe to replace infil sig.

Honestly, I’ve considered devourer venom over infiltrator’s signet, and I know a bunch of thieves who do take it. I just really like the extra port that the signet offers, since it’s a great way to cover big attacks or confuse your opponents about your positioning, and it means I don’t have to return as frequently.

I think that if I were running as part of a serious group with bunker guards, I’d opt for venom over signet because it’d help the guardian keep up with my ports a bit easier. The extra immob will also basically confirm an opening CnD or phoenix/LF burst due to venom’s ability to proc from SB auto.

Woaden.9425:

Do you feel immob focused build is less advantageous vs -condi duration builds, like nike warrior?

Well, I wouldn’t slot venom over signet if I see a bunch of hambows on the enemy team, or if I’m dueling a warrior. The signet is crucial not only as a port, but also as a stunbreak in that scenario. However, in general, immobilize is still good against dogged march/melandru warriors because you can still mitigate a lot of their bursts when you time the immobilize properly (whirlwind, earthshaker, bulls charge, etc.), and panic strike will still give your team ample time to finish him off.

mango.9267:

Woaden.9425:

I think you point out a good synergy with sword/x builds and 6 DA. The immob you get from panic strike is a great way to preserve your infil strike, and let your return either expire, or save it for a juke, saving ini while still doing immob!

I’d say it goes even further because +30% condition duration means landing infiltrator’s strike confirms a flanking strike, which is a huuuuuge advantage. But yes, knowing panic strike will proc also saves you from using return too early.

That’s true, I hadn’t considered the condi duration bonus but you’re very right. That lines up way more combos with the immob that you’d otherwise have.

I’ve started playing a similar build with S/P, generally it works well with that set, especially with the amount of potential CC you get from Pistol Whip, steal and the immobilizes!

I run with a bit more vitality though – just for those pesky conditions.
Also NA players seem more dopey than EU players in general from all these montages I’ve seen, we have our share of baddies in WvW, but wow.

“ur dog sux”

oh that was a good laugh xD

thank you for sharing

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

I’ve started playing a similar build with S/P, generally it works well with that set, especially with the amount of potential CC you get from Pistol Whip, steal and the immobilizes!

Yeah, it does synergize well with S/P, but I’m just convinced critical haste + sigil of rage synergize even better. That said, more power to you; I imagine mug —> pistol whip --> panic strike —> pistol whip would finish off a lot of squishier targets.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

I run with a bit more vitality though – just for those pesky conditions.

I think this is understandable on S/P, but I feel S/D and D/P don’t need that much health. You really shouldn’t be getting that much anyway on those sets.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Also NA players seem more dopey than EU players in general from all these montages I’ve seen, we have our share of baddies in WvW, but wow.

Eh, that’s hard to judge. I’ve had friends on both sides of the pond claim the same thing. I think the average WvW player is pretty bad across all servers, so I generally try to only include outnumbered WvW footage, unless I think a 1v1 demonstrates something unique about a build or unless I know the player I’m fighting is good.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

“ur dog sux”

oh that was a good laugh xD

thank you for sharing

Glad you enjoyed! My guild is starting a super sekrit dog fighting ring, lawl.

Hello

Im pretty new to thief, been lvl 80 for about 3 weeks and have only done www small scale roaming so far.
Been trying alot of different weapon sets and traits etc, also the build here and found it quite good. Trying out abit of a different setup now and would like your opinion.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsYVl0MpwplOxyJ8PNxLhw5vaeuOt2LCMA-TVDEABvpNwu9H0THggKBvUtCCeCAMpkoJlDKqqiWKhQ4EAAwhAILlIkCQsdVA-w

Excuse the gear alot is borrowed from diff toons. I know that im missing out on daze and about 8 sec cd recharge on steal, I just thought that the aoe blind would be more helpfull? Also im running the +40 condi duration 33% chance on lifesteal food and not the 1 shown, but was wondering if going for that high condi duration is overkill?

Have also been trying out this setup for larger fight’s

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsYVl0MpwplOxyJ8PNxLB55aSj2LIADoztcYA-TVDEABvpNwu9H0THggKBvUtCCeCAMpkoJlDKqqiWKhQ4EAAwhAILlIkCQsdVA-w

Not to sure about that 1 though

Also a quick question, i got 90% condi duration. Ingame it says my Infiltrator’s Strike immob last 2 sec. Is that true or just a tooltip error?

Mohagi.2738:

Hello

Im pretty new to thief, been lvl 80 for about 3 weeks and have only done www small scale roaming so far.
Been trying alot of different weapon sets and traits etc, also the build here and found it quite good. Trying out abit of a different setup now and would like your opinion.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsYVl0MpwplOxyJ8PNxLhw5vaeuOt2LCMA-TVDEABvpNwu9H0THggKBvUtCCeCAMpkoJlDKqqiWKhQ4EAAwhAILlIkCQsdVA-w

Excuse the gear alot is borrowed from diff toons. I know that im missing out on daze and about 8 sec cd recharge on steal, I just thought that the aoe blind would be more helpfull? Also im running the +40 condi duration 33% chance on lifesteal food and not the 1 shown, but was wondering if going for that high condi duration is overkill?

Have also been trying out this setup for larger fight’s

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAsYVl0MpwplOxyJ8PNxLB55aSj2LIADoztcYA-TVDEABvpNwu9H0THggKBvUtCCeCAMpkoJlDKqqiWKhQ4EAAwhAILlIkCQsdVA-w

Not to sure about that 1 though

Both of those builds look fine. I’d never run without sleight of hand, but that’s more of a personal preference. I think shadow arts is stronger than acro in WvW, but either will give you enough sustain. I’d consider swapping traveler’s for pack or rage simply because you’ll have near permaswiftness already, so you really don’t get the benefit of the +25% movement speed from traveler’s.

And no, long-lasting immobilize is never overkill. It’s probably the best way to guarantee a finish on an opponent, and the utility it offers your team is amazing.

Mohagi.2738:

Also a quick question, i got 90% condi duration. Ingame it says my Infiltrator’s Strike immob last 2 sec. Is that true or just a tooltip error?

I’ve never run with 90% condi duration, but that sounds right. Mine is a 1.75 sec immob with 70% condi duration. A 2 sec immob that’s semi-spammable is incredibly powerful.

Great work dude. I’m glad you’re getting this build to work for you. I’ve tried it before but I didn’t end up liking how it felt. It didn’t have the flow that 2/0/0/6/6 has; the acro tree synergizes with s/d so well.

IMO, when you account for everything, 2/0/0/6/6 has more damage, more sustain, and more dps from being able to stay in melee range a higher percent of the time. I’ll try to explain my reasoning:

By using 2/0/0/6/6 you get to keep might on dodge and you still get the 10% dmg buff from acro rather than DA. This puts the two specs on roughly the same footing for damage, except the acro build has more up time on boons as well as having an ability to drop the 2nd stunbreak for the signet of agility. Add in 3k more health (vs a little toughness and negligible healing power) also. All this adds up to having superior damage and survivability. Porting every which-way is really fun but it’s time not spent dpsing your opponent. This is all from a spvp perspective as I don’t play wvw anymore.

I hope this doesn’t come off as rude; you’re definitely a good player and I’d be curious to hear your opinions on this.

Cheers!

Hype.8032:

Great work dude. I’m glad you’re getting this build to work for you. I’ve tried it before but I didn’t end up liking how it felt. It didn’t have the flow that 2/0/0/6/6 has; the acro tree synergizes with s/d so well.

IMO, when you account for everything, 2/0/0/6/6 has more damage, more sustain, and more dps from being able to stay in melee range a higher percent of the time. I’ll try to explain my reasoning:

By using 2/0/0/6/6 you get to keep might on dodge and you still get the 10% dmg buff from acro rather than DA. This puts the two specs on roughly the same footing for damage, except the acro build has more up time on boons as well as having an ability to drop the 2nd stunbreak for the signet of agility. Add in 3k more health (vs a little toughness and negligible healing power) also. All this adds up to having superior damage and survivability. Porting every which-way is really fun but it’s time not spent dpsing your opponent. This is all from a spvp perspective as I don’t play wvw anymore.

I hope this doesn’t come off as rude; you’re definitely a good player and I’d be curious to hear your opinions on this.

Cheers!

Hey, no offense taken, and I agree with almost everything you’ve said. So I think the benefits of going into acro are fluidity in playstyle, ability to stay in melee longer, and generally more sustain.

However, there are a number of tradeoffs.

First, acro S/D takes a while to stack might, so your initial burst is much weaker than it is on 60206 or 26006. This might not be a problem if you’re fighting for an extended period of time on point, but it may hurt if you want to finish an enemy thief or mesmer quickly. In general, 20066 doesn’t have the same finishing potential as 60206 or 26006.

Second, acro S/D doesn’t have the same stunbreak/condi management that 60206 or 26006 do simply because you’d usually take signet of agility over either infiltrator’s signet or shadowstep. You could opt not to take signet of agility, but then you’re below the ideal crit chance for fire/air proc’s, assuming you take strength runes. If you opt for pack over strength, you lose the damage modifier from strength, and it takes even longer to stack might. In general, acro S/D somewhat depends on signet of agility, which means you give up either a stunbreak/gap closer or a stunbreak/condi clear (let’s be honest, the condi clear from signet of agility is pretty bad).

Third, shortbow is a bit more potent on 60206 due to weakness on poison and higher base power. The same can be said about steal, since mug will hit a bit harder, and you’ll apply weakness along with your poison. You don’t lose that much melee dps when you have weakness on your opponent, since 50% glancing blows is a significant boost to both your and your team’s sustain.

Overall, I think 60206 has a much higher initial burst, maybe slightly lower sustained damage (depending on how often you port), and better team utility/finishing potential due to panic strike and long-duration immob on infiltrator’s strike. I think 20066 offers more sustain, plays a lot more fluidly, and rotates faster due to permaswiftness out of combat.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoa6al0MpwplOx7J8PNxORtdA8AHInnwF05OcDA-TpBBABdcEAA4EA0y+DU8AAIvMwGHEAA
Just wanted to share with you a build I’ve recently created. Haven’t put it to use yet cause I think it still contains the potential to be deadlier that’s why it’s here to be influenced by other experienced thieves.

WVW: I’ve been trying out a panic strike trickery s/d build for a few weeks now, but I personally can’t live without the fluidity that feline grace offers, so I’ve settled on 5/0/0/3/6 with Pack runes to compensate for the precision loss.

With valk armor, a mix of zerk and cavalier accessories, precision food and high fury uptime (Thrill of the crime and 4 pt bonus on Pack runes), the build has good damage, decent survivability and pretty much perma swiftness.

If possible before I engage a fight I might switch ShadowStep for Signet of Agility, depending on what class I’m gonna fight. Typically I will keep ShadowStep if I know I’ll need extra bulk condi clear/stunbreak (vs. Terror/CondiNecro). If I anticipate I’ll need more dodges/precision with less condi clear I will pick Signet of agility (.e.g. vs another s/d thief).

My 2c

Nephrite.6954:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQRAoa6al0MpwplOx7J8PNxORtdA8AHInnwF05OcDA-TpBBABdcEAA4EA0y+DU8AAIvMwGHEAA
Just wanted to share with you a build I’ve recently created. Haven’t put it to use yet cause I think it still contains the potential to be deadlier that’s why it’s here to be influenced by other experienced thieves.

So this has nothing to do with panic strike or S/D, but I’ll give you some feedback anyway since you posted it here.

(1) In a PvP setting you lose a lot by giving up SB. Not only because of the aoe poison and cleave, but also because SB 5 is the fastest way to rotate around the map.
(2) Your power is way too low. I’d recommend zerk amulet/power runes. The 20 sec icd is a bit too long for air, IMO.
(3) With that much crit chance, it’s a complete waste not to go for fire/air sigils.
(4) There’s no reason to take both acro and SA. You give up almost all of your team utility by taking 0 in trickery. I’d recommend at least 4 points there for bountiful theft.

godmoney.6025:

WVW: I’ve been trying out a panic strike trickery s/d build for a few weeks now, but I personally can’t live without the fluidity that feline grace offers, so I’ve settled on 5/0/0/3/6 with Pack runes to compensate for the precision loss.

To me, it almost seems like a waste to go that deep into DA without taking panic strike, but I can see the appeal of taking feline grace as well. That said, it seems like you’d still be susceptible to a lot of condi builds, since you don’t have shadow’s embrace or pain response.

godmoney.6025:

If possible before I engage a fight I might switch ShadowStep for Signet of Agility, depending on what class I’m gonna fight. Typically I will keep ShadowStep if I know I’ll need extra bulk condi clear/stunbreak (vs. Terror/CondiNecro). If I anticipate I’ll need more dodges/precision with less condi clear I will pick Signet of agility (.e.g. vs another s/d thief).

This is a good idea in WvW, but you can’t swap your utilities in PvP. In the meta S/D build, signet of agility synergizes very well with the acro line, which is why it gets chosen over shadowstep. Without heavy acro investment, however, I think shadowstep is a stronger utility.

Well I’ve been using the meta builds (0/6/2/0/6 or 6/0/2/0/6 zerk) for quite a while and thought of changing up to something new for a different type of sustain without going all in to shadow’s rejuvenation . I invested 4 in AB cause of feline grace, quick recovery and some vitality.I picked assassin’s amulet and ferocity over power & zerk for some more healing whenever I crit (that’s about 90 health each time I strike) from invigorating precision as for the sigils I agree that fire & air proc hits decently hard but it’s personal prev I can change the sigils anytime. I’ve never really liked the use of SB, it doesn’t seem to satisfy me in spvp majority of the time unless if I’m going against another thief. I’ll remake this build and go for a few rounds in pvp to see how it goes first. Oh and awesome video you did about p/p panic strike.

2/10 would not fap to again. Quick tips no one wants to hear the mans voice its a big turn off Second.

Jk nice vid will have to play around with the build when i get back <3

Sry for the necro

Just testing a new build, its not per se a panic strike build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVlsMp7pdNx0J8PNRMBtdGS+F4aHafgFEAA-TlDEAB2t/ge6Bi7QAIoSwLVrggHAgBnAAmUSIlSomUOooqKapEpNNBAcEAIFg56qA-w

Just pondering if buffing devourer + basilisk isnt a better option than panic strike?
Seems to me that you get more control over your CC? Ofc you loose a utility slot but get a potential 9 sec immob and 3 sec stone duration (in www, abit lower immob in pvp).
Can ofc go trickery instead of crit, but i do like the added dmg of the crit tree.

Mohagi.2738:

Sry for the necro

Just testing a new build, its not per se a panic strike build

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoaVlsMp7pdNx0J8PNRMBtdGS+F4aHafgFEAA-TlDEAB2t/ge6Bi7QAIoSwLVrggHAgBnAAmUSIlSomUOooqKapEpNNBAcEAIFg56qA-w

Just pondering if buffing devourer + basilisk isnt a better option than panic strike?
Seems to me that you get more control over your CC? Ofc you loose a utility slot but get a potential 9 sec immob and 3 sec stone duration (in www, abit lower immob in pvp).

This isn’t a bad idea either. Double proc basilisk is great for getting opponents to blow stunbreaks. That said, the reason I really like panic strike is because it only procs when the target is below 50%, so it’ll usually allow you and your team to finish a target. With your set up here, you risk having devourer on cooldown when you need it to finish the target. You do get more flexibility over the immob, but I find I need the signet stunbreak/gap closer to help me maintain pressure.

Mohagi.2738:

Can ofc go trickery instead of crit, but i do like the added dmg of the crit tree.

I feel you give up a lot of sustain if you don’t go for trickery. Sleight of hand + mug is actually a lot of healing over the course of a fight. You also don’t have the standard trickery utilities, which I feel outweigh the damage from crit strikes in a team setting. This, of course, comes down to personal preference.